Nurses to get laid off.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Fraser institute...lol...you gonna quote John Tory or the CBC about a gun issue. They are paid to say what they are supposed to.

Hey guys I realize that budgets are finite. I’m trying to point out the fact that front line workers aren’t to blame or unaffordable, it’s our corrupt political system that is presenting that so as to keep their faces firmly planted in the trough

Completely agree front line workers are worth every penny. But you cannot tell me that there isn’t money to be saved throughout all AHS.

[hogie]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...1yr1MI&ampcf=1

Article is from last year but I think has relevant numbers. Hard to sustain public jobs without a strong private sector.

Maybe the previous government idea for job growth isn't a long term solution.

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Not one bit. Looks like they need some outside people to come in and optimize their business. If any other business operated like this the public would revolt and they would go bankrupt.

X2

It's very revealing about people when they go insane when some gov't workers get cut but can hears crickets out of them when the taxpayers who support their salaries are out of work.

I feel sympathy for all workers, but I'm a pragmatist so I understand that books have to be balanced. Everyone needs to remember the 42,000 additional provincial gov't staff that Notley hired to pad her union votes. There HAS to be some trimming done. I do agree that there's got to be lots of management cut, given the choice I'd prefer a paper shuffler be cut than a nurse.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Completely agree front line workers are worth every penny. But you cannot tell me that there isn’t money to be saved throughout all AHS.

There most definitely is. Right at the top. Managers managing managers. It’s insane, but connected to the political elite so untouchable.

How much money elsewhere is subject to debate, and there has been front line cost cutting since stelmach (and throughout the NDP) years, which a lot of people refuse to acknowledge. There is also the problem of increased demand, both due to an increasing population and an aging population

Example: you need 3 more nurses to cover increased admissions (a factor out of anyone’s control). PC said no (so -3) The dippers said +1 (still -3, because demand continues to increase over time) the UCP now says -1 (they promised 0) so we are at -5.

At some point, you tip over into failure by design. It was no secret Ralph was in talks with American insurance companies and got his chain yanked by the public. All of this looks like a repeat by the same operatives. Layers on layers and lots of rhetoric to inflame opinions.

We do have a spending problem. We spend money on eastern politicians and welfare. I’m all for wexit, Alberta would have the highest salaries and best services across the board

[raab]

Id like to know how many Nurses were hired under the Notley government before passing judgement. Could have excess in some areas, and hopefully we can see that man power transferred to areas of need. Example public health Nurse, going to ER.

In any case the monopoly on healthcare has reduced its effectiveness to the point that we all suffer equally(except the rich who go to the States and pay cash). We should be looking to reform the system. I would like us to copy Switzerland's system to improve patient outcomes.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

There most definitely is. Right at the top. Managers managing managers. It’s insane, but connected to the political elite so untouchable.

How much money elsewhere is subject to debate, and there has been front line cost cutting since stelmach (and throughout the NDP) years, which a lot of people refuse to acknowledge. There is also the problem of increased demand, both due to an increasing population and an aging population

Example: you need 3 more nurses to cover increased admissions (a factor out of anyone’s control). PC said no (so -3) The dippers said +1 (still -3, because demand continues to increase over time) the UCP now says -1 (they promised 0) so we are at -5.

At some point, you tip over into failure by design. It was no secret Ralph was in talks with American insurance companies and got his chain yanked by the public. All of this looks like a repeat by the same operatives. Layers on layers and lots of rhetoric to inflame opinions.

We do have a spending problem. We spend money on eastern politicians and welfare. I’m all for wexit, Alberta would have the highest salaries and best services across the board

So shouldn’t the unions focus their efforts on their management and waste rather than blaming the governments?

[3blade]

Originally Posted by raab

Id like to know how many Nurses were hired under the Notley government before passing judgement. Could have excess in some areas, and hopefully we can see that man power transferred to areas of need. Example public health Nurse, going to ER.

In any case the monopoly on healthcare has reduced its effectiveness to the point that we all suffer equally(except the rich who go to the States and pay cash). We should be looking to reform the system. I would like us to copy Switzerland's system to improve patient outcomes.

Not that simple. Cut public health, more people in ER and now they are sicker and use more resources

Re Switzerland: you have a plan for copying their economy as well? perhaps we agree...they are a independent COUNTRY that controls the entirety of their finances.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

So shouldn’t the unions focus their efforts on their management and waste rather than blaming the governments?

The unions get no say in the management/admin side of AHS. Absolutely none .

Union positions are paid for by union dues that members pay. AHS does not fund unions.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The unions get no say in the management/admin side of AHS. Absolutely none .

Union positions are paid for by union dues that member pay. AHS does not fund unions.

They don’t have a say in government yet you see them advertising and making public statements.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

They don’t have a say in government yet you see them advertising and making public statements.

Free speech, for now at least.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Kenney clamp down on that, he attacked free speech in his university days and left over it when he didn’t get his way.

[urban rednek]

Never, in the long and glorious history of Canuckistan, has a bloated government bureaucracy of glorified paper pushers and report reviewers ever voluntarily sacrificed one of their own for the greater good. It is in the bureaucracy's best interest to implement decisions that will cause the most turmoil and unrest in the greater population. Eventually leading to more power in the hands of the bureaucrats.

This tactic is also used effectively by all levels of government to distract the sheeple from the true reasons for cost overruns and tax increases.

Effective change can only be dictated by external sources.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Free speech, for now at least.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Kenney clamp down on that, he attacked free speech in his university days and left over it when he didn’t get his way.

You are missing the point. Direct that free speech above towards AHS!

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

You are missing The point. Direct that free speech above towards AHS!

I see your point and agree in principle. It wouldn’t change anything though

Governments can and do change, so that’s who they target.

[raab]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Not that simple. Cut public health, more people in ER and now they are sicker and use more resources

Re Switzerland: you have a plan for copying their economy as well? perhaps we agree...they are a independent COUNTRY that controls the entirety of their finances.

I think the whole country should go to a similar system. Keeping a monopoly in healthcare wont work, and will eventually fail. Just a matter of time.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Free speech, for now at least.

Wouldn’t surprise me to see Kenney clamp down on that, he attacked free speech in his university days and left over it when he didn’t get his way.

Thats where the unions need to choose whether they are going to be a union or political activists. When unions are actively campaigning for specific parties they have lost their focus. So I think it is good to force them to choose. If they are going to be political then they dont get a say in policy. If they rep the people of the union and stay out of politics then welcome to the policy tables.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by raab

I think the whole country should go to a similar system. Keeping a monopoly in healthcare wont work, and will eventually fail. Just a matter of time.

Sure. But Healthcare is provincial jurisdiction, unlikely to change as its the favorite trough of unelected political operatives. You won’t vote this into existence in the current system.

Again we end up talking about changing the way government works.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by raab

I think the whole country should go to a similar system. Keeping a monopoly in healthcare wont work, and will eventually fail. Just a matter of time.

Or the Australian system. Works very well out there, if you want insurance you can get it for private procedures

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Glion

Thats where the unions need to choose whether they are going to be a union or political activists. When unions are actively campaigning for specific parties they have lost their focus. So I think it is good to force them to choose. If they are going to be political then they dont get a say in policy. If they rep the people of the union and stay out of politics then welcome to the policy tables.

I don’t think you understand how free speech works

FWIW, I agree that it’s not a productive strategy for a union to be political. I don’t agree with telling everyone what they can and can’t do or say

[raab]

Originally Posted by Glion

Or the Australian system. Works very well out there, if you want insurance you can get it for private procedures

Literally every other G20 country has either a two tier system or totally private. But if we bring it in here it’ll be the end of the world. I like Switzerland’s system as it’s one of the top systems in the world, and it’d be easy to implement.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by 3blade

I don’t think you understand how free speech works

FWIW, I agree that it’s not a productive strategy for a union to be political. I don’t agree with telling everyone what they can and can’t do or say

I fully understand how free speech works but a union is not a political activist centre and never should be. And if they want to be that then understand if your "party" doesn't get in power do not expect a seat at the decision making table

[amosfella]

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...s-nurses-union

Here's the most interesting sentence in the article.

The government has contracted Ernst and Young to review the organization, services and programs of Alberta Health Services and is due to report to government by the end of December.

However, if you read the article carefully, the union seems most angry about their numbers being reduced.

Seems like Kenney is talking about moving to a more public/private health care system. The Unions wouldn't necessarily have the power in the private side.

Ever notice that any time the government talks about allowing to private sector to offer certain services, the union is out there preaching doom and gloom?

It's about control and money for the union bosses. If you reduce the union membership, you reduce the unions control and the bosses income. That's a fat position that needs to be majorly cut back.

Also notice in the quoted sentence that AHS is called an organization. NOT a government department. That is very significant. AHS is not part of the government. It's an independently run trust/company/other organization (likely for profit but could be a nonprofit) that acts as an agent for the government to provide health care in exchange for payment (likely greatly inflated). The money is paid to HAS, and the top/ management/ paperpushers get the first and much larger cut. The people doing the actual work get the leftovers.

In the past, I remember hearing on the news that AHS got more funding, and they hired more managers to find better 'efficiencies'.

[MK2750]

Health care has a problem and it isn't the nurses. It is the revolving door at the drug dispensaries we refer to as medical clinics and the so called doctors that run them.

They double book, misdiagnosis and do absolutely nothing but fill prescriptions to the same drug addicted populous day in and day out. Apart from enabling drug addiction, they are bleeding the government dry through unchecked billing and mismanagement. Many of these "doctors" do not have IQ that God gave the geese. More often then not a person can better determine the likely case of their ailment with a Google search.

ALWAYS double check with your pharmacist before taking any drugs prescribed. They actually understand drugs as they have studied exactly how they work and their interactions. I have only had a very few prescriptions in my life but on 3 different occasions the pharmacist has saved me from taking the wrong meds. This confirmed online.

ALWAYS insist on seeing a specialist if there is any question as to what is your problem and course of treatment. A second opinion is most often much more accurate than the first.

ALWAYS consult with a nurse practitioner if there is even the slightest doubt with how your treatment is being handled.

The answer to inflated health care costs is more nurses with more authority and much more authority to pharmacists. Nurses should be able to treat most ailments, do regular check ups and write prescriptions in consultation with pharmacists. Get rid of 80% of these so called "family doctors" sucking the life out of the system or assign them as nurses if they can make the grade.

The same could be said for dental hygienists and assistants that do 90% of the work in a dental office for 1/100th of the cost. Have dental clinics that do regular check ups and cleanings without the so called "family dentist" scraping a few hundred a shot off the top of every patient visit, most of whom he spent less than 5 minutes with.

A family doctor literally killed my father by prescribing the wrong dosage of medication, another nearly killed my wife by misdiagnosing an ectopic pregnancy and a third nearly killed my son at child birth by administering an epidural with the baby stuck in the birth canal; if a surgeon had not been in the building he would have been gone as his heart stopped. Other than the rampant incompetence and the inflated cost, I like family doctors. More likely to kill you than a drug addicted sociopath but really nice people

[raab]

Originally Posted by 3blade

I don’t think you understand how free speech works

FWIW, I agree that it’s not a productive strategy for a union to be political. I don’t agree with telling everyone what they can and can’t do or say

Unions are political as they want to bring in socialism. If they would stay out of the politics and focus on getting their members good working environments I’d have no problem with them. Unfortunately they advocate for higher minimum wage, bloated centralized government, and monopolies that only they control.

[NCC]

I'm okay with cutting 500 nurses, as long as they cut the ones that are taking 30 sick days per year and not the strong performing young nurses. The union sometimes protects those who are abusing the system.

AHS also needs to quit allowing patients (and doctors) to use the hospitals as a long term care facility.

Charge a $30 emergency room fee to keep the frivolous frequent flyers away.

Allow some privatization so that those who don't want to wait 6 weeks to see a doctor and another 3 months to get in for physio or an MRI can pay for immediate service. This will take some of the load off AHS.

[nick0danger]

Originally Posted by raab

Id like to know how many Nurses were hired under the Notley government before passing judgement. Could have excess in some areas, and hopefully we can see that man power transferred to areas of need. Example public health Nurse, going to ER.

In any case the monopoly on healthcare has reduced its effectiveness to the point that we all suffer equally(except the rich who go to the States and pay cash). We should be looking to reform the system. I would like us to copy Switzerland's system to improve patient outcomes.

Wife is a nurse to give you an idea, on her unit, they have fewer nurses now then when the NDP first got elected. However they do have 2 more managers!

[NCC]

Originally Posted by raab

Literally every other G20 country has either a two tier system or totally private. But if we bring it in here it’ll be the end of the world. I like Switzerland’s system as it’s one of the top systems in the world, and it’d be easy to implement.

Two countries on earth have banned for profit health care: Canada and North Korea.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by NCC

Two countries on earth have banned for profit health care: Canada and North Korea.

Isn't North Korea the pinnacle of society in this world?

[Nyksta]

Originally Posted by teledogs

The crap they deal with is unreal. Multiple drug addicts telling them off that really didn't even want their care. Dealing with family and dealers bringing them addicts their daily fix, everyday was another story like this. bureaucratic inefficiencies.

This revolving door needs to be looked at... we could have all the health care budget in the world, it would still be tied up in substance abuse.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Glion

I fully understand how free speech works but a union is not a political activist centre and never should be. And if they want to be that then understand if your "party" doesn't get in power do not expect a seat at the decision making table

Originally Posted by raab

Unions are political as they want to bring in socialism. If they would stay out of the politics and focus on getting their members good working environments I’d have no problem with them. Unfortunately they advocate for higher minimum wage, bloated centralized government, and monopolies that only they control.

I absolutely agree. Can’t stand the political side of unions. However, if we are going to tell them they don’t get a say in public policy...neither do the oil and gas companies, logging companies, manufacturers, or any other organization

If you want to eliminate political lobbying, along with political parties and other sources of corruption, nepotism and graft - I’m right there with you. Would happily support a system where an elected representative actually has to represent their constituents.

But if you guys want to eliminate one voice at the table, you are attempting authoritarianism. That’s not how freedom and free speech work

[Glion]

Originally Posted by 3blade

I absolutely agree. Can’t stand the political side of unions. However, if we are going to tell them they don’t get a say in public policy...neither do the oil and gas companies, logging companies, manufacturers, or any other organization

If you want to eliminate political lobbying, along with political parties and other sources of corruption, nepotism and graft - I’m right there with you. Would happily support a system where an elected representative actually has to represent their constituents.

But if you guys want to eliminate one voice at the table, you are attempting authoritarianism. That’s not how freedom and free speech work

I agree partly. And we did see with the last government many industries did not get a seat at the tables. However my point more is that the unions are focusing on the wrong things. Rather than trying to elect who they want or pushing that on the members they should be advocating needs the members desire. And removing someones voice from a table is not authoritarian. They chose to be political and lost so pay the price, you don't make the decisions anymore.