Nurses to get laid off.

[trigger7mm]

Alberta Health Services announced today that they are going to lay off several hundred nurses in Alberta. What a shame that our health care system has to take a hit again. Especially the front line workers. I’m sure there are a ton of top end, highly paid administration personnel that could be sacrificed. Let the nurses do their jobs. This is patient care that is being compromised.

[AndrewM]

Seems like the unions are trying to make the public mad and cutting front line workers rather than trimming the fat at the top. Rather than cleaning the system they would rather hurt the public.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Seems like the unions are trying to make the public mad and cutting front line workers rather than trimming the fat at the top. Rather than cleaning the system they would rather hurt the public.

Fully agree. I dislike that the unions are more and more trying to be political movers rather than going back to their roots of why they were established

[1899b]

...

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Seems like the unions are trying to make the public mad and cutting front line workers rather than trimming the fat at the top. Rather than cleaning the system they would rather hurt the public.

The unions?? I think you are confused about how this works. AHS decided who gets cut, not the workers themselves (union members). The fat at the top (administration, CHeif officers of toilet paper, Vice Presidents, and the like) is all politically connected so of course they don’t get cut. Same as what happened in the fat arse anti-hunter Ralph’s days.

....

So Kenney lies. Surprise!!! We got lied to by another eastern politician.

Sorry Alberta, can’t afford health care because Jason Kenney has to keep paying off kbecistan and Ottawa if he wants to be prime minister one day.

Wexit is sounding better and better. Imagine what we could afford if we didn’t send eastern Kanuckistan over 50 billion every year

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 1899b

How many are rethinking their conservative vote at this point?

Not one bit. Looks like they need some outside people to come in and optimize their business. If any other business operated like this the public would revolt and they would go bankrupt.

[Zip]

The decline of what we all were just a few short years ago... is on a rapid pace in a circular water filled deep deep hole...we can’t stop it now.. so sink or swim somehow I suppose.. I feel for all those affected now and in the future from our govt hands!
This will not end well for many
Zip

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The unions?? I think you are confused about how this works. AHS decided who gets cut, not the workers themselves (union members). The fat at the top (Admin) is all politically connected so of course they don’t get cut. Same as what happened in the fat arse anti-hunter Ralph’s days.

....

So Kenney lies. Surprise!!! We got lied to by another eastern politician.

Sorry Alberta, can’t afford health care because Jason Kenney has to keep paying off kbecistan and Ottawa if he wants to be prime minister one day.

Wexit is sounding better and better. Imagine what we could afford if we didn’t send eastern Kanuckistan over 50 billion every year

Last I checked unions don’t reward their top staff and work on seniority. Regardless you are correct. AHS needs to look internal. Cutting front staff is the easy way out.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Not one bit. Looks like they need some outside people to come in and optimize their business. If any other business operated like this the public would revolt and they would go bankrupt.

It’s not a business it’s a service. the desired outcome is not monetary

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The unions?? I think you are confused about how this works. AHS decided who gets cut, not the workers themselves (union members). The fat at the top (administration, CHeif officers of toilet paper, Vice Presidents, and the like) is all politically connected so of course they don’t get cut.

They are also the ones making the decisions, so they aren't going to cut themselves. It's win-win really, they keep their jobs and bloated salaries, the sheeple get upset as nurses are being cut, so the government feels obligated to put more money in the system, which said administrations then get a cut of.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Last I checked unions don’t reward their top staff and work on seniority. Regardless you are correct. AHS needs to look internal. Cutting front staff is the easy way out.

The “top staff” label would instantly be monetized, politicized and manipulated. Seniority while not perfect, prevents interference.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

It’s not a business it’s a service. the desired outcome is not monetary

So services should have free reign to spend and when someone questions the spending the just cut the hard workers? At the end of the day it is just like a business. Spend the least amount of money to get the most amount of return. Return is healthcare rather than money.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The “top staff” label would instantly be monetized, politicized and manipulated. Seniority while not perfect, prevents interference.

You are reading into each word a bit much. Top staff is staff off the front line. Not just a couple at the top.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by 3blade

It’s not a business it’s a service. the desired outcome is not monetary

Whether outcome is monetary or not it should still be ran in a sense like a business. Maximize efficiency, produce the best product possible.

[Glion]

Not saying we need to cut nurses but I do find it interesting that if anyone would suggest this it is almost looked on as criminal. Just interesting that it's generally frowned upon by most that we can't cut nurses/ couple of other jobs.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by Glion

Not saying we need to cut nurses but I do find it interesting that if anyone would suggest this it is almost looked on as criminal. Just interesting that it's generally frowned upon by most that we can't cut nurses/ couple of other jobs.

Exactly my opinion. Closet cleaning is good. Blindly cutting is just pure laziness and not taking the fiscal situation serious.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by Trochu

They are also the ones making the decisions, so they aren't going to cut themselves. It's win-win really, they keep their jobs and bloated salaries, the sheeple get upset as nurses are being cut, so the government feels obligated to put more money in the system, which said administrations then get a cut of.

No, the unions do not make those decisions. Administration is not unionized. You are mistaken

Originally Posted by AndrewM

So services should have free reign to spend and when someone questions the spending the just cut the hard workers? At the end of the day it is just like a business. Spend the least amount of money to get the most amount of return. Return is healthcare rather than money.

Not what I said. There is a budget. The problem is the results are not measure in ones and zeros like profit, therefore people with business degrees focus on the part that is (minimizing the budget). So they blow past the point of diminishing returns (quality of care falls) without knowing or caring because they can point to a dollar figure.

Originally Posted by AndrewM

You are reading into each word a bit much. Top staff is staff off the front line. Not just a couple at the top.

If only it worked that way. See above. Administration is not unionized. Unfortunately the unions are made up of front line workers and do not get to tell AHS how to divide up the budget. The unions only negotiate a collective agreement (contract). Administration controls budget allocation. So they take the most, pile some into some political projects, and then tell their negotiators they can’t afford front line workers.

[WhiteTailAB]

New title. Thousands of private sector employees have been laid off for years and no one bats an eye.


Who cares about these nurses. I don't cause they didn't say a thing while the private sector was getting screwed hard. Probably just delayed karma for going on strike every time they feel they deserve a raise.

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

No, the unions do not make those decisions. Administration is not unionized. You are mistaken



Not what I said. There is a budget. The problem is the results are not measure in ones and zeros like profit, therefore people with business degrees focus on the part that is (minimizing the budget). So they blow past the point of diminishing returns (quality of care falls) without knowing or caring because they can point to a dollar figure.



If only it worked that way. See above. Administration is not unionized. Unfortunately the unions are made up of front line workers and do not get to tell AHS how to divide up the budget. The unions only negotiate a collective agreement (contract). Administration controls budget allocation. So they take the most, pile some into some political projects, and then tell their negotiators they can’t afford front line workers.

Ok so not unions. It is AHS that’s the problem. They are the ones taking the lazy way out. Didn’t realize staff above front line workers weren’t part of the unions. Sorry about that.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

New title. Thousands of private sector employees have been laid off for years and no one bats an eye.


Who cares about these nurses. I don't cause they didn't say a thing while the private sector was getting screwed hard. Probably just delayed karma for going on strike every time they feel they deserve a raise.

Part of what you sign up for.

Private: boom-bust, you made the unicorn oil money and take the layoffs with it

Public: lower pay and job security: no job security, no point going to university for 4 years, putting up with lower pay, disease exposure, people crapping themselves etc

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Part of what you sign up for.

Private: boom-bust, you made the unicorn oil money and take the layoffs with it

Public: lower pay and job security: no job security, no point going to university for 4 years, putting up with lower pay, disease exposure, people crapping themselves etc

Goes both ways. Part of what they signed up for. Cookie jar is empty and not enough food to go around. Why should there be infinite job security as a government employee?

[WhiteTailAB]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Part of what you sign up for.

Private: boom-bust, you made the unicorn oil money and take the layoffs with it

Public: lower pay and job security: no job security, no point going to university for 4 years, putting up with lower pay, disease exposure, people crapping themselves etc

And yet the most recent report from the Fraser institute says public workers make 10% more and retire earlier than private sector workers.

Your move, champ.

[AndrewM]

Private is what feeds the money to public. If private is out of money then public needs to be cut. Not a complicated equation. Looks like you aren’t respecting the hand that feeds you.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 3blade

No, the unions do not make those decisions. Administration is not unionized. You are mistaken.

I thought I clearly referenced AHS admin and mentioned them in my post, my bad.

[Glion]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Part of what you sign up for.

Private: boom-bust, you made the unicorn oil money and take the layoffs with it

Public: lower pay and job security: no job security, no point going to university for 4 years, putting up with lower pay, disease exposure, people crapping themselves etc

Going into nursing you should realize people crapping themselves is part of the job just like beef farming you might have to pull a calf off. As for public vs private I am curious when this boom unicorn private money will come... when you start having over 1/3 of workforce employed by the government the economy will slowly inwardly collapse unless you raise tax rates over 50% and/or run deficits. Sorry that's a whole different topic.

[teledogs]

I just spent close to 2 weeks at the Mazankowski in Edmonton and I have never been so humbled by the care these workers give. The crap they deal with is unreal. Multiple drug addicts telling them off that really didn't even want their care. Dealing with family and dealers bringing them addicts their daily fix, everyday was another story like this. And then care for the people that wanted, needed, and appreciated them. They never stopped!!
It's a shame these workers are always the target for management or bureaucratic inefficiencies.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Goes both ways. Part of what they signed up for. Cookie jar is empty and not enough food to go around. Why should there be infinite job security as a government employee?

Didnt go both ways when the oil money was flowing. No 22 y/o new grad nurses were making 6 figures the way rig hands were

It’s also worth noting there were small raises back when cost of living blew up due to the oil money, and have been zero raises for years now, while cost of living continues to creep up

So healthcare workers HAVE taken the bad, when it was good, and now you think should take even more bad because of irresponsible government? At some point you lose people in a field where experience means lives saved.

The whole point of it is, we can afford healthcare. We can’t afford eastern canuckistan and Jason Kenneys ambitions for power

[Rastus]

SOMEBODY has to pay the fat pensions these Politicians get, and ours is not bad. Better be me than them. Consider the U.S. politicians, they get whatever they are elected to, for life. OH WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3blade]

Originally Posted by WhiteTailAB

And yet the most recent report from the Fraser institute says public workers make 10% more and retire earlier than private sector workers.

Your move, champ.

Fraser institute...lol...you gonna quote John Tory or the CBC about a gun issue. They are paid to say what they are supposed to.

Hey guys I realize that budgets are finite. I’m trying to point out the fact that front line workers aren’t to blame or unaffordable, it’s our corrupt political system that is presenting that so as to keep their faces firmly planted in the trough

[AndrewM]

Originally Posted by 3blade

Didnt go both ways when the oil money was flowing. No 22 y/o new grad nurses were making 6 figures the way rig hands were

It’s also worth noting there were small raises back when cost of living blew up due to the oil money, and have been zero raises for years now, while cost of living continues to creep up

So healthcare workers HAVE taken the bad, when it was good, and now you think should take even more bad because of irresponsible government? At some point you lose people in a field where experience means lives saved.

The whole point of it is, we can afford healthcare. We can’t afford eastern canuckistan and Jason Kenneys ambitions for power

New grad nurses could have went on the rigs. Would like to see you experience a day on the rig then comment on the work comparison as comparing the two is apples and oranges. Maybe if the NDP wasn’t busy hiring piles of people there would have been money left for raises. We are all in this together and we are all hurting. Making a business or a service more efficient isn’t a bad thing. It’s called good business practice. Being lazy and cutting nurses and teachers is just trying to make the public mad and being political.