Fed up with rural break ins

[Rancid Crabtree]

For some reason the RCMP seem to consider these crimes unsolvable.
It is becoming clear that when called to a rural break in, the officers file a report and.. that all.
If your stuff shows up in the future they will let you know but that's about it.

What I'm curious about is does anyone think the B&E recently of an officers home will go unsolved ?

I expect it will be wrapped up and arrests made within a few weeks, where as in the recent rash of B&E in our rural community none have been solved.

I'm not looking to bash cops but some results would go a long way to restoring the peoples faith in the RCMP

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I would hope if there was a shooting, wife and daughter are well trained to also perform said shooting. Plus, just another reason why we should have concealed carry. It seems you just want to live in fear of the criminal.

You could move to Montana. You can be strapped 24/7.

I don't want to live where I could get shot from some pinhead with an itchy trigger finger wanna-be hero. Of course everyone that has ever held a gun figures they are a sharp shooter, but with being strapped comes high capacity mags and the bullets have to go somewhere.

Nobody will ever force me to live where violent crime is prevalant.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You could move to Montana. You can be strapped 24/7.

I don't want to live where I could get shot from some pinhead with an itchy trigger finger wanna-be hero.

Nobody forces me to live where there is violent crime.

What's funny is you don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun, but you do trust they don't want to harm you because you assume that they are not carrying one. You should place the trust you have in your fellow humans in the fact that most of us are peaceful.

I will not be moving to Montana anytime soon, because while firearms are important to me, my career and community have taken precedence.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I would hope if there was a shooting, wife and daughter are well trained to also perform said shooting. Plus, just another reason why we should have concealed carry. It seems you just want to live in fear of the criminal.

The concern is his buddies come back and do something worse than burn down a barn. Things can be replaced people can't. He's having trouble dealing with the situation as it is. His teenage daughter is scared to death. Ruined her love of horses.

For 40$ worth of gas. Big picture it's not worth it.

Take the long view. He comes home one day to find his daughter dead on the floor. How does he live with himself. For 40$ worth of gas.

When it's just as easy to let the cops take them in and deal with them.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What's funny is you don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun, but you do trust they don't want to harm you because you assume that they are not carrying one. You should place the trust you have in your fellow humans in the fact that most of us are peaceful.

I will not be moving to Montana anytime soon, because while firearms are important to me, my career and community have taken precedence.

Since you're sticking around. I'm still waiting for what you're doing to solve the problem.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by fitzy

The concern is his buddies come back and do something worse than burn down a barn. Things can be replaced people can't. He's having trouble dealing with the situation as it is. His teenage daughter is scared to death. Ruined her love of horses.

For 40$ worth of gas. Big picture it's not worth it.

Take the long view. He comes home one day to find his daughter dead on the floor. How does he live with himself. For 40$ worth of gas.

When it's just as easy to let the cops take them in and deal with them.

My understanding is that this is not happening, hence the reason for the thread.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Since you're sticking around. I'm still waiting for what you're doing to solve the problem.

I lock my stuff up. My only experience with theft was my truck was rifled through, about $500 worth of cash and gift cards taken.

My dad has had lots of farm fuel stolen, a few dirtbikes. Cops did very little.

My problem solving will be on a case by case basis. I hope I don't need to solve any problems in future.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I lock my stuff up. My only experience with theft was my truck was rifled through, about $500 worth of cash and gift cards taken.

My dad has had lots of farm fuel stolen, a few dirtbikes. Cops did very little.

My problem solving will be on a case by case basis. I hope I don't need to solve any problems in future.

I see. Keyboard warrior. All opinion no action. Well you're entitled to you're opinion and I hope you don't either.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

A dead thief can't testify. Nor will he/she steal again!

SSS is a very permanent solution. Our legal system doesn't deal justice to the victim. There's no deterent to these waste's of fresh air!

BW

A bit too permanent. I would not have killed, but I probably would not have felt too bad if said thieves couldn't walk right any more.

I hear a lot of "it's just stuff", and "it's replaceable", but how many years, and overtime does a guy have to put in to do it?! That's my life! I don't work to barely feed myself. If that was the case I could get by working a couple days a week.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Here is a guy who tried to take the law in his own hands.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/edmon.../15849066.html

McGrath, a general contractor and father of four sons, was a missing person until RCMP recovered his body from the hole on Allen's property in October 2005.

Court heard Allen told undercover Mounties during a sting operation that he attacked McGrath with an elbow and a "dead-blow" hammer and "milked him" of his blood over the drain in his meat shop.

The Crown told the jury Allen was fed up with McGrath for not paying him rent for operating a wood-cutting business on his property and was also upset because his wife was hounding him to do something about it.

Tried? Sounds like he succeeded!

Maybe just a little off the deep end.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by fitzy

True but he had his barn burned down for a beating .... maybe his wife and daughter are raped and murdered for a shooting?

Feel free to do what you like. A guy that's been through it advocates for using the police.

Don't like the legal system get it changed.

Well, heck! He could have his daughter and wife raped over calling the cops on them and fingering them in court, too. Guess we better tolerate being victimized, and don't fight back because we might make it worse.

I'm not one for on the spot executions; but usually it's not a first offence and not the worst thing they've done. That guy that steals gas, had no problem torturing a few horses to death because he got a few lumps that he rightfully earned. That's the kind of person that probably should be buried out in the back 40.

Changing the system sounds easy. Just get all the judges out of there and start over. But it doesn't work for us. A couple years ago, about 3/4 of us supported a death penalty. What's the chances of Vader sitting in old Sparky?
Slim to none. And defense is arguing for 5 years! They wouldn't even put him in general pop. Buy yer ticket and take yer chances!

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by JimPS

Get of the keyboard and get involved with "The Eyes and Ears of Rural Alberta".

http://www.ruralcrimewatch.ab.ca/

I'd love to, but it is now in the hands of our local government, md council, to decide if our area needs one.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I dont disagree that a legal s**tshow would ensue. But that is my point. It shouldn't. If the criminal is unarmed, he has more rights than the legal gun owner. It is so backward I could weep.

PS if this happens to me, I hope someone sets up a gofundme so I can afford a good lawyer

I would for sure we all need to support each other if this happens

[The Cook]

Originally Posted by liar

We , candian society , have painted ourselves into a corner . we can not fill prisons full of these thugs for years on end , the costs would be crippling and if the courts impose a fine ,they are thieves so they have to go out and steal more stuff to pay the fine . im not sure how we are going to get out of this one . .

Convert to a religion that cuts off a hand for theft.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Well, heck! He could have his daughter and wife raped over calling the cops on them and fingering them in court, too. Guess we better tolerate being victimized, and don't fight back because we might make it worse.

I'm not one for on the spot executions; but usually it's not a first offence and not the worst thing they've done. That guy that steals gas, had no problem torturing a few horses to death because he got a few lumps that he rightfully earned. That's the kind of person that probably should be buried out in the back 40.

Changing the system sounds easy. Just get all the judges out of there and start over. But it doesn't work for us. A couple years ago, about 3/4 of us supported a death penalty. What's the chances of Vader sitting in old Sparky?
Slim to none. And defense is arguing for 5 years! They wouldn't even put him in general pop. Buy yer ticket and take yer chances!

Yeah lol sounds so easy. I don't know how to get it done. I just know there are real problems with our justice system and they aren't getting better.

Cutting a hand off does seem like a good place to start

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by The Cook

Convert to a religion that cuts off a hand for theft.

You don't need to be religious to do this.

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Rancid Crabtree

For some reason the RCMP seem to consider these crimes unsolvable.
It is becoming clear that when called to a rural break in, the officers file a report and.. that all.
If your stuff shows up in the future they will let you know but that's about it.

What I'm curious about is does anyone think the B&E recently of an officers home will go unsolved ?

I expect it will be wrapped up and arrests made within a few weeks, where as in the recent rash of B&E in our rural community none have been solved.

I'm not looking to bash cops but some results would go a long way to restoring the peoples faith in the RCMP

Inside job. We'll never hear a thing.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

You could move to Montana. You can be strapped 24/7.

I don't want to live where I could get shot from some pinhead with an itchy trigger finger wanna-be hero. Of course everyone that has ever held a gun figures they are a sharp shooter, but with being strapped comes high capacity mags and the bullets have to go somewhere.

Nobody will ever force me to live where violent crime is prevalant.

I found that the people in Montana to be real friendly. I didn't think twice about who was packing.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

I found that the people in Montana to be real friendly. I didn't think twice about who was packing.

Me too! Have a great time there. I was just saying, if he wanted to walk around strapped he could live there.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What's funny is you don't trust the average Joe to carry a gun, but you do trust they don't want to harm you because you assume that they are not carrying one. You should place the trust you have in your fellow humans in the fact that most of us are peaceful.

I will not be moving to Montana anytime soon, because while firearms are important to me, my career and community have taken precedence.

Huh?

I have run a collection Agency for 30 years. I have dealt with people in horrible circumstances, at times not of their doing at all, at times completely by their own choice. You think that I haven't been in countless extremely tense situations?
Times I needed a firearm in these situations-Zero
Times I wanted a firearm, same situations-Zero.
People watch too many movies, are paranoid or eager to stir the chit pot. Join the Rcmp and make a difference.

And 2nd paragraph, firearms are not important to me.
My family and community have ALWAYS taken precedence over everything else.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Me too! Have a great time there. I was just saying, if he wanted to walk around strapped he could live there.

The way you said "pinhead with an itchy trigger finger" and "wannabe hero" led me to believe that you're statement was meant to characterize everyone in a carry state as either criminals or nut jobs.

But I guess both of us know different. My mistake.

[Tactical Lever]

As for rock salt shells... guys still make them.

[dgl1948]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

As for rock salt shells... guys still make them.

Nieghbour made some up to deal with stray dogs coming to his farm. He asked me if I had ever seen them used. No! Well he pointed the gun shotgun at a sheet of plywood to show me the pattern. Blew a 1 inch hole in it. I guess they must take on moisture and get pretty solid.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Huh?

I have run a collection Agency for 30 years. I have dealt with people in horrible circumstances, at times not of their doing at all, at times completely by their own choice. You think that I haven't been in countless extremely tense situations?
Times I needed a firearm in these situations-Zero
Times I wanted a firearm, same situations-Zero.
People watch too many movies, are paranoid or eager to stir the chit pot. Join the Rcmp and make a difference.

And 2nd paragraph, firearms are not important to me.
My family and community have ALWAYS taken precedence over everything else.

So because you don't want or feel the need to carry, nobody should?
Joining the RCMP is the best way to make a difference?

Look, we obviously disagree, but don't assume you are right. The OP had a problem, there are many different opinions as to how he should solve it. One method will not solve it, that is relying on the status quo of reporting to RCMP or local authorities. Where the individual takes it from there is up to them.

[fitzy]

Originally Posted by Newview01

So because you don't want or feel the need to carry, nobody should?
Joining the RCMP is the best way to make a difference?

Look, we obviously disagree, but don't assume you are right. The OP had a problem, there are many different opinions as to how he should solve it. One method will not solve it, that is relying on the status quo of reporting to RCMP or local authorities. Where the individual takes it from there is up to them.

Gotta say I'm on Kens team with this one. I for one am very glad we have no carry here.

Joining the RCMP would make more of a difference than whining on a forum. Try running in an election. Do anything besides this to try and make a difference.

You are correct. Everyone cuts there own deal in life but when you choose to take the law in your own hands you need to be prepared to suffer the consequences.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by fitzy

Gotta say I'm on Kens team with this one. I for one am very glad we have no carry here.

Just curious, why do you trust the Americans to carry but not Canadians? After all we are an inherently more peaceful country.

Joining the RCMP would make more of a difference than whining on a forum. Try running in an election. Do anything besides this to try and make a difference.

I don't feel I am complaining, I don't currently have a theft problem. All along I was trying to give reason for the individual to have more rights to defend life and property.

You are correct. Everyone cuts there own deal in life but when you choose to take the law in your own hands you need to be prepared to suffer the consequences.

[silverdoctor]

How many innocent people are shot and/or killed - collateral damage really - by cops in US and Canada? How many accidental or mistaken shootings from citizens legally carrying? How many lives have been saved by civilians engaging the criminal element?

I don't know, just asking. Still shaking my head at Chicago stats for 2016 - something like 760 dead in one city? Would you be afraid to live there?

The time I spent in Kansas, didn't feel the least bit threatened knowing people that had hand guns socked away on their person. People were very open about it. I found it somewhat odd really, just not used to it - and when they find out you're from Canada, the conversation starts. They find it weird that we can't carry, that our laws are so restrictive.

Still don't know what the big deal is...

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

How many lives have been saved by civilians engaging the criminal element?

I read a statistic somewhere that concealed carry stops a crime in the States about 100,000 times a year. I will try to find it.

Found it.

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives
A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more injuries than they inflict
* Guns used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day. [1] This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. [2]
* Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker.[3]
* As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.[4]
* Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense. According to the Clinton Justice Department, there are as many as 1.5 million cases of self-defense every year. The National Institute of Justice published this figure in 1997 as part of "Guns in America" -- a study which was authored by noted anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig.[5]
* Armed citizens kill more crooks than do the police. Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).[6] And readers of Newsweek learned that "only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high."[7]
* Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year. [8] Many of these self-defense handguns could be labeled as "Saturday Night Specials."
B. Concealed carry laws help reduce crime
* Nationwide: one-half million self-defense uses. Every year, as many as one-half million citizens defend themselves with a firearm away from home. [9] * Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:
* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%; [10] and * If those states not having concealed carry laws had adopted such laws in 1992, then approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes, 60,000 aggravated assaults and over 11,000 robberies would have been avoided yearly.[11]
* Vermont: one of the safest five states in the country. In Vermont, citizens can carry a firearm without getting permission... without paying a fee... or without going through any kind of government-imposed waiting period. And yet for ten years in a row, Vermont has remained one of the top-five, safest states in the union -- having three times received the "Safest State Award."[12]
* Florida: concealed carry helps slash the murder rates in the state. In the fifteen years following the passage of Florida's concealed carry law in 1987, over 800,000 permits to carry firearms were issued to people in the state. [13] FBI reports show that the homicide rate in Florida, which in 1987 was much higher than the national average, fell 52% during that 15-year period -- thus putting the Florida rate below the national average. [14]
* Do firearms carry laws result in chaos? No. Consider the case of Florida. A citizen in the Sunshine State is far more likely to be attacked by an alligator than to be assaulted by a concealed carry holder.
1. During the first fifteen years that the Florida law was in effect, alligator attacks outpaced the number of crimes committed by carry holders by a 229 to 155 margin.
2. And even the 155 "crimes" committed by concealed carry permit holders are somewhat misleading as most of these infractions resulted from Floridians who accidentally carried their firearms into restricted areas, such as an airport. [15]
C. Criminals avoid armed citizens
* Kennesaw, GA. In 1982, this suburb of Atlanta passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in the house. The residential burglary rate subsequently dropped 89% in Kennesaw, compared to the modest 10.4% drop in Georgia as a whole. [16]
* Ten years later (1991), the residential burglary rate in Kennesaw was still 72% lower than it had been in 1981, before the law was passed. [17]
* Nationwide. Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms. Consider the following rates showing how often a homeowner is present when a burglar strikes:
* Homeowner occupancy rate in the gun control countries of Great Britain, Canada and Netherlands: 45% (average of the three countries); and, * Homeowner occupancy rate in the United States: 12.7%. [18] Rapes averted when women carry or use firearms for protection
* Orlando, FL. In 1966-67, the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando's rape rate dropped 88% in 1967, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation. [19]
* Nationwide. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful. [20] Justice Department study:
* 3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun." [21]
* 74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."[22] * 57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police." [23]

https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm
Website has references. My 100,000 was conservative.

[jstubbs]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

I don't know, just asking. Still shaking my head at Chicago stats for 2016 - something like 760 dead in one city? Would you be afraid to live there?

Big can of worms here.

Chicago actually somewhat proves that gun control doesn't do squat. Has the strictest gun control laws in the nation, but constant extreme violence. Fact is, criminals want guns, they're getting guns. Law abiding folk aren't.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by jstubbs

Big can of worms here.

Chicago actually somewhat proves that gun control doesn't do squat. Has the strictest gun control laws in the nation, but constant extreme violence. Fact is, criminals want guns, they're getting guns. Law abiding folk aren't.

This is true. Gun violence is also tightly linked with poverty rates. There is more to gun violence than gun control, but it is also a fact that laws only affect the law abiding. It is illegal to harm others. It still happens. Does it come down to accountability? probably.