Alberta Election Debate Tonight, Apr 23 6:15-8PM

[fishead]

Originally Posted by Forest Techer

Just read the executive summary. 20+ Dams in Alberta tons of potential for more. I'm not pro/con. Just thought you might be giving a wrong impression of Alberta. And power generation and it's possibilities.

http://www.energy.alberta.ca/electri...ctricstudy.pdf

Great debate! Let's Throw this batch out and try again next week : )

To quote an AO "fire good"

Wow looks like an interesting report . To late to dig into that right now
Agreed, good debate.

[agentsmith]

Originally Posted by raab

Lets also remember that Prentice could have worked on the budget and economy for another year, but instead decided to waste money and call the election. This after brokering a deal with the official ELECTED opposition of this province to get 9 of their members to cross the floor and cripple the party.

Yeah, pretty convenient how that all worked out. Gut the opposition by poaching their leader and 8 other members, then said former leader fails to win a seat nomination and retires completely, then you call an election soon after.

But don't point this out during a conference call with him, or you'll get accidentally cut off due to "technical difficulties". Again, how oddly convenient.

[bestman2]

Originally Posted by agentsmith

I wouldn't put too much importance on it anyway. "Televised election debate" usually means "political theater", especially when only the major players are invited.

It seems we are thinking alike

[agentsmith]

Originally Posted by BlackHeart

Your comment he almost made me laugh just like a Bizzaro comic does.

Chugging......you mean choking on so much debt the interest isn't being covered. Unless there is global devaluation of currency, like prior to WW2, there is no way out of the hole Obama put the US in. But considering the shape Greece and the rest of the European PIGS are in, it might be an option the global govt take.

Basically a massive govt tax/expropriation of saving of the middle class through currency/savings devaluation.

If you believe in Obama......keep as much of your net worth in US dollar currency. (but i doubt you'd be so reckless with tour OWN money/finances) If you don't then get the heck out of any currency and into solid revenue generating/producing hard assets.

Place your bets lady and gentlemen,.......and find out if Obamas Socialism is really green 00 on the wheel, where the sociaist spins the wheel, the middle class place bets, and the owners of the house always win and everyone trying to play the game loses. Step right up.

Don't be fooled by partisan politics. Obama didn't create America's financial woes, and neither did Bush before him. They've been on this path for decades, and no one from either party has done or is doing anything about it.

Remember that whole "fiscal cliff" fiasco a few years back? Even if the across-the-board cuts had been allowed to happen, it would have only slowed the rate of growth of the deficit. Not the debt, just the deficit. And not reduced it, just its rate of growth. That's how far they are from even beginning to tackle their budget issues. And after all that charade, all they did in the end was find a way to kick the can down the road again.

The problem is now so massive that any solution would be a generational one, requiring multiple administrations and congresses in a row to be on board and working together. Which will never happen when they've got the next election cycle to worry about and bribes to collect. Sorry, I meant "campaign contributions".

Behind the scenes, both parties in the US are more or less the same in this regard, and in most ways that really matter. Which is why you'll never see a third party or indie candidate get in the televised debates. They even blocked Ron Paul from the Republican nomination debates last time, because he would have mentioned stuff that the other candidates (and the party overall) would rather not talk about. I suspect the same kind of rigging may have locked certain parties out of this debate.

[tri777]

Originally Posted by Forest Techer

If you think these guys are having a bad day imagine how danielle smith feels. Lol

The whole shebang would of fallen right into her lap if she would of just kept it together! Lol it's like a soap opera you couldn't write this stuff. And no one gets credit for knowing what was going to happen.

She poisoned the WR well for Albertans. Today People want to see a fiscal alternative on the right more than anything.

Just like getting lost in the woods. You are in trouble 30min before you admit it. I think it's obvious now Alberta lost its way awhile back.

Favorite post!! ^^
Watching everyone of these canadates is like eating the
most bland Breakfast,dinner,& supper when your already
starving and malnourished.

[molly]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

This perhaps he is not the best candidate at this time to head the party then.....who knows for sure.

You are right one debate should not change your vote but it can sway the fence sitters.

Mack

I agree. Perhaps he should not have run after this tragic event in his life.
And seeing how the contenders perform in a debate can be an eye opener for some...I am sure both WR and the NDP lost some votes after this, even though certain "polls" claim the NDP won the debate.

[kennedy]

Originally Posted by Nocked

I think a guy who wrote Prentice a big check in 2014 shouldn't be complaining about things he said or did in 2008. He really is not impressive tonight.

he will form a coalition with Jimbo. Interesting he avoided that question altogether. once a floor crosser always a floor crosser.

[Matt_H]

Originally Posted by kennedy

he will form a coalition with Jimbo. Interesting he avoided that question altogether. once a floor crosser always a floor crosser.

Exactly. For those who dislike Prentice to the point of hatred then turn around and vote in a obvious supporter of his is unbelievable.

Here's one way of putting it:
''And now Brian Jeans wants to lead Wildrose? Just what is his game here? You donate your money to the PCs and run for Wildrose? You’ve already got it figured out, don’t you? You donate to Prentice, get on his good side, win the Wildrose leadership, and then cross the floor into a cushy position… say Finance Minister?
Wildrose needs to elect someone who isn’t just a PC trying to get elected in a rural riding. They need someone who actually believes in the party and the province. We’ve had enough of these clowns.
I’m begging Wildrose not to pick Brian Jean. He’s already shown ZERO loyalty to the party. Don’t get cheated on again. Brian Jean’s already got one foot across the floor.

Seriously, even Danielle didn’t donate to Alison Redford.''

https://theconservativeman.wordpress...oss-the-floor/

[hal53]

Originally Posted by Matt_H

Exactly. For those who dislike Prentice to the point of hatred then turn around and vote in a obvious supporter of his is unbelievable.

Here's one way of putting it:
''And now Brian Jeans wants to lead Wildrose? Just what is his game here? You donate your money to the PCs and run for Wildrose? You’ve already got it figured out, don’t you? You donate to Prentice, get on his good side, win the Wildrose leadership, and then cross the floor into a cushy position… say Finance Minister?
Wildrose needs to elect someone who isn’t just a PC trying to get elected in a rural riding. They need someone who actually believes in the party and the province. We’ve had enough of these clowns.
I’m begging Wildrose not to pick Brian Jean. He’s already shown ZERO loyalty to the party. Don’t get cheated on again. Brian Jean’s already got one foot across the floor.

Seriously, even Danielle didn’t donate to Alison Redford.''

https://theconservativeman.wordpress...oss-the-floor/

he has a vested interest in fixing healthcare...he didn't think the PC plan was enough....

[Matt_H]

Originally Posted by hal53

he has a vested interest in fixing healthcare...he didn't think the PC plan was enough....

On the healthcare tip, do you really prefer the two tier, healthy if your wealthy system?

How can one go wrong with the NDP's vision for healthcare:
''Notley’s plan outlines the first three steps to making the NDP vision of health care a reality:
Stop the Cuts and Restore Stability: The NDP will build stability by stopping Jim Prentice’s reckless healthcare cuts – because more cuts cannot fix the crisis that exists in Alberta hospitals.
Focus on Patients and Prevent More Chaos: The NDP will cancel the PC plan to spend $9 million dollars on AHS reorganization. Instead of printing new business cards for executives, the NDP will put the focus back on patients.
End the Shell Game: A total of 34 NHL hockey rinks worth of empty shelled-in space is sitting empty and waiting to be used, while hallway medicine and ER wait times get worse. The NDP will put the 600,000 square feet of hospital space to use serving patients.
“Now more than ever, Alberta needs leadership on health care,” said Notley. “Albertans need a government that will make their health care a priority and get to work fixing the crisis, instead of making it worse. We will do that.”
http://lethbridgeherald.com/alberta-...r-health-care/

[Smokey]

Originally Posted by 5Lgreenback

After viewing this debate, I'm thinking this just helped solidify another PC win.

Notley beat Prentice soundly and will solidify NDP support. PC's need Edmonton to win a majority and thats not happening. Jim was hardly convincing, just some PC fearmongering.There was no knockout punch. For every jab Jean took, Notley hit him with a right hook. Jean was bad the first part of the debate but his core message was heard loud, and he showed a clear line between him and the PC's.. I hardly doubt one debate tips the scales, and the final two weeks are where the skeletons will come out.

I can personally live with a minority government. And that is what the polls show.

[Kim473]

Before this debate, I was on the fence between WR & NDP. I am now leaning towards the NDP side of the fence.

For me, Prentice took the shovel from my hands and started digging the hole him self, wonder if he will need a push or will he will jump in him self?

I Can't wait to here more from these candidates over the next week.

[TanksNHank]

She did it for me I'll be voting NDP this year. I've only ever voted for the PC's but she changed my mind last night. I was leaning between WR and the NDP but Rachel was the only one that talked with conviction (after the nerves wore off) and demonstrated that she was articulate, willing to listen and seems like she truly cares about Alberta. For that I'm willing to give her a chance and try something new.

[Smokey]

Originally Posted by kennedy

he will form a coalition with Jimbo. Interesting he avoided that question altogether. once a floor crosser always a floor crosser.

Will he pay the 100000 to do so. He is not crossing the floor.

He may create a coalition if taxes are not raised.

[Smokey]

Originally Posted by molly

I agree. Perhaps he should not have run after this tragic event in his life.
And seeing how the contenders perform in a debate can be an eye opener for some...I am sure both WR and the NDP lost some votes after this, even though certain "polls" claim the NDP won the debate.

Notley won the debate soundly, how she going to lose votes?

There may be some shift of WR to PC, but the I think that will be small. As much as Jean sucked in a debate, the hatred for Prentice is almost enough to counter whether he blew chunks in a debate. Prentice was hardly better. He basicly looked like an arrogant awhole, his math comment is the second worst line he used since the Mirror Monologue.

[Deckacards]

It will be either PC or WR win...The NDP vote will just not get out to vote. IMO

[avb3]

Originally Posted by Deckacards

It will be either PC or WR win...The NDP vote will just not get out to vote. IMO

The dippers are some of the most dedicated voters... Don't kid yourself, they will be out.

[CritterCommander]

Here's my take: Jean didn't win or lose anything - he wasn't impressive but didn't give anything away either. With limited prep time and his short time as leader, have to give him at least a little slack. Notley was the clear winner, if having a winner is important. She may well make the best premier ( based solely on her ability to think on her feet - good lawyering skills! ) but I don't think she has much of chance of winning anything outside of Edmonton other than the odd outlier. Prentice looked like he was ready to start crying at any moment, and maybe if he could have at least cracked a grin now and then may have come across a bit more sincere. To me at least he lived up to his Grim Jim persona. Not sure who he was trying to convince with his 'math is difficult' comments? More of the ole - we know what's best - just trust us? Swann made some interesting points but that's all. I think the Libs are pretty much toast for this go round anyway.

Overall, my position hasn't changed. The so called "Alberta Decision" show is a couple hours I'm never getting back. Does anyone know if there are numbers for how many people actually watched?

I'm voting for the man that I feel will best represent my constituency and concerns in Edmonton. And that's the WR candidate.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by avb3

The dippers are some of the most dedicated voters... Don't kid yourself, they will be out.

Yes the NDP voters will be out voting and many of the conservative and conservative light voters will be out voting NDP for the first time ever. Albertan's have looked in the mirror and decided to make a change.

Rachel won the debate last night, if you believe different you were watching with your rose colored glasses on. She answered the questions with dignity and respect, she and her party have listened to Martha and Henry Alberta and is responding to what the average Albertan is telling her.

Jim was his arrogant self, and really hasn't a clue what he is doing or how to do it to better Alberta. If he did this debate would of taken place in 2016.

Brian, isn't raising taxes....we know that...how many times did he have to say that. He looked lost and must of been wondering why the script had changed. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights most of the debate.

David. Enough said

BW

[Carriertxv]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Currencies and their direction relative to each other are a market measure of the relative strength of each economy/country. Every developed economy is running a debt and that alone doesn't dictate the strength of the economy. How about assets, GDP (potential to pay the debt), productivity? There is far more to consider than just debt.

Debt is actually a bit of a red herring. There isn't a developed country out there that can pay their debt off without killing their economy and their standard of living. And nobody is going to call in all the debt all of a sudden. If China called US debt they'd kill themselves. The US is their biggest customer. Cripes they can't even let little ol' Greece default because the contagion will hurt every country around the world and specially Europe. Why do you think they put up with Greece's BS. Hint: it ain't because they are looking out for the best interest of Greece.

Take a look at how the US dollar has done against other currencies over the last few years.

So you're telling me that this is all good and I should be happy and not worry? That the global economy will never collapse and I should vote NDP?

[Mackinaw]

Originally Posted by Bigwoodsman

Yes the NDP voters will be out voting and many of the conservative and conservative light voters will be out voting NDP for the first time ever. Albertan's have looked in the mirror and decided to make a change.

Rachel won the debate last night, if you believe different you were watching with your rose colored glasses on. She answered the questions with dignity and respect, she and her party have listened to Martha and Henry Alberta and is responding to what the average Albertan is telling her.

Jim was his arrogant self, and really hasn't a clue what he is doing or how to do it to better Alberta. If he did this debate would of taken place in 2016.

Brian, isn't raising taxes....we know that...how many times did he have to say that. He looked lost and must of been wondering why the script had changed. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights most of the debate.

David. Enough said

BW

Notley was the most annoying she has ever been . The fact that she smiles as she talks about how bad the situation in Albera is a reminder she is not there for the people but for herself. I think she actually helped the PC party. Her actions are not unlike Redfords were.

Mack

[5Lgreenback]

Originally Posted by Smokey

Notley beat Prentice soundly and will solidify NDP support. PC's need Edmonton to win a majority and thats not happening. Jim was hardly convincing, just some PC fearmongering.There was no knockout punch. For every jab Jean took, Notley hit him with a right hook. Jean was bad the first part of the debate but his core message was heard loud, and he showed a clear line between him and the PC's.. I hardly doubt one debate tips the scales, and the final two weeks are where the skeletons will come out.

I can personally live with a minority government. And that is what the polls show.

I didn't mean Prentice won the debate. I meant that a large number PC of voters were defecting to WRP, who are on the fence and question WRP's competence, or wether they will actually bring any meaningful change. That debate last night helped reaffirm those fears as valid.

My guess is a lot of the fence voters (who aren't willing to go NDP) are going to default back to the PC's.

[The Elkster]

You can do whatever you want. I'm saying debt is not the death knell its made out to be and money isn't the only thing in life. How long have developed countries been running up debt yet lo and behold we somehow seem to manage. Talk to me again when debt is slightly smaller or taxes lower but you can't get a hospital bed or you can't get assistance for your mentally disturbed kid, or there ain't a tree left in the foothills bigger than t shrub.

Where would we be on the environment if it weren't for the left leaning types? Everybody hates the messenger but in the end level heads prevailed and big changes have been made. No way companies and citizens actions would have changed proactively without some of the supposed lefty nuts. Debt and balanced budgets won't mean squat if we live in a squalid dump. As an outdoorsman I'd rather live broke in natural surroundings than rich with all kinds of needless toys in a cesspool of industrial waste and depleted resources.

[Bigwoodsman]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Notley was the most annoying she has ever been . The fact that she smiles as she talks about how bad the situation in Albera is a reminder she is not there for the people but for herself. I think she actually helped the PC party. Her actions are not unlike Redfords were.

Mack

Mack, you must of been drinking during the debate to compare Rachel Notley to Allison Redford!

If you really want to compare Allison Redford to someone then Jim most likely resembles shades of Redfraud. His arrogance and sense of entitlement is on par with the Red witch.

Mack do yourself a favor and vote NDP. You will feel a sense of liberty and freedom from the Conservative rule.

BW

[5Lgreenback]

Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Notley was the most annoying she has ever been . The fact that she smiles as she talks about how bad the situation in Albera is a reminder she is not there for the people but for herself. I think she actually helped the PC party. Her actions are not unlike Redfords were.

Mack

I agree, she was annoying, but she also seemed to be the only one up there who was able to at least "come across" as if she had a brain.

Jean was disappointing. And quite frankly wasn't able to answer some key questions that many voters would want to know.

I know its just a debate, and should have limited sway on the voter. But when the debate reinforces a lot of the worries that people already have....

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by raab

I wonder how much Alberta pays for there health managers vs the rest of the provinces? I think we'll find the money is being spent in places that make no difference on front line services for the average citizen.

Edit: I will say Alberta has some of the best first response in Canada, maybe North America considering it's geographical size.

Not sure how we stack up with First Response to other Provinces but it recently got a lot worse. EMT's spend most of their time waiting at emergency for their patients to be emitted, while leaving their home bases unattended....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...imes-1.2956871

[Deo101]

Originally Posted by The Elkster

Currencies and their direction relative to each other are a market measure of the relative strength of each economy/country. Every developed economy is running a debt and that alone doesn't dictate the strength of the economy. How about assets, GDP (potential to pay the debt), productivity? There is far more to consider than just debt.

Debt is actually a bit of a red herring. There isn't a developed country out there that can pay their debt off without killing their economy and their standard of living. And nobody is going to call in all the debt all of a sudden. If China called US debt they'd kill themselves. The US is their biggest customer. Cripes they can't even let little ol' Greece default because the contagion will hurt every country around the world and specially Europe. Why do you think they put up with Greece's BS. Hint: it ain't because they are looking out for the best interest of Greece.

Take a look at how the US dollar has done against other currencies over the last few years.

Debt is the new scarcity. Consumerism drives us. We are consuming more and more and more just to keep the wheels turning it seems. The reality is we should be building things to last, as efficiently as possible but that doesn't align with Capitalism. The entire system seems more and more like BS to me and at some point it's going to totally break. The only thing keeping it going is our belief that these dollars are worth anything. I think the worlds going to get very weird in the coming years, things like bitcoin, 3D printing and free information is going to throw a real wrench into the system.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Not sure how we stack up with First Response to other Provinces but it recently got a lot worse. EMT's spend most of their time waiting at emergency for their patients to be emitted, while leaving their home bases unattended....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...imes-1.2956871

I know, I worked as an EMT. Still big problems with the health system and cuts won't help. But if you compare getting hurt in Northern Alberta compared to Northern BC you'd see a difference.

In Alberta we have full time ALS units within an hour of most communities, we have fixed wing medevac planes in various communities throughout the north who can usually get a patient to a city hospital in less then 2 hours after receiving the call(was quicker until they shut down the muni, I flew in with patients and had them into the RAH in less then 45 minutes from Slave)

Compare this to BC where they have 2 planes for the entire province both based out of Vancouver, and they have on call BLS in most communities besides Victoria, Vancouver, Kelowna, Kamloops, and Prince George IIRC.

Albertans should be proud of the first response system we have in place, IMO it's the best in Canada given our geographical limitations. In saying that the rural units getting stuck in the city is a major issue that I believe will be addressed in the near future.

As for the ER wait times for city crews, the back log is with beds on the wards. People are discharged from the ward but are holding up beds because there is no long term care bed for them to be transferred to. Therefore a patient being admitted to the ward stays in the ER taking up an ER bed.

[The Elkster]

Originally Posted by Deo101

Debt is the new scarcity. Consumerism drives us. We are consuming more and more and more just to keep the wheels turning it seems. The reality is we should be building things to last, as efficiently as possible but that doesn't align with Capitalism. The entire system seems more and more like BS to me and at some point it's going to totally break. The only thing keeping it going is our belief that these dollars are worth anything. I think the worlds going to get very weird in the coming years, things like bitcoin, 3D printing and free information is going to throw a real wrench into the system.

Absolutely. If one takes a moment to look at what drives the capitalist system its clear to see how unsustainable it is. Waste of limited resources at every turn. Things look totally different whether you are looking at the current system the context of 1yr 10yr of 50yrs. With the global population as it is something has to change fairly soon. Unless one is trusting in a miracle to save them. There are some of those people LOL.

[Redfrog]

The comments sound like only one person is running for each party..

Have any of you NDP drum beaters ever actually lived anywhere the NDP have governed?

Maybe you could tell us all the wonderful things they did and how they paid for them?

Elkster , how is the NDP going to pay for all the medical magic? How are things any place else they have been or are in government?