Lloydminster RCMP

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

For the last time we are not the United States. Different demographics .

Ya his crap gets old fast

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by connexion123

I don't believe in rights I fight for them? Listening to obummer much?

What a load of crap. How do you fight for something you don't believe in? How do you specifically fight for rights and what rights are those?

What's your problems with the USA? Which is what I think you mean when you say down South.

Should we all pay al gore so global warming doesn't get an assault carbine ?

Ask the 55 odd thousand kids that starved to death today bought "God given rights " ask the women in northen Iraq or far flung Afghanistan abought rights . How much of a tax Increase would you accept for the rights of others lololol
Join the CF forces then you will understand fighting for" rights " why do americans have less rights than germans and more than mexicans

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by connexion123

Ya his crap gets old fast

Please point out the inaccuracy in the previous qouted post f

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Brendan, please read my posts: I've had no problem with the C8 being issued....provided there is funding, training, testing, proficiency is maintained, and ultimately public accountability.

How that takes place is for the RCMP to decide and to manage on an on-going basis. Not a train members and forget about it scenario!

The results of these efforts, however, must be the people's business.

Well at least give them a chance to succeed before we pass judgement that the program is destined to fail. At least they listen to recommendations made and trying to improve conditions for the Members. If they ignored the recommendations then we would have reason to be upset. Change is slow in any government group and one as larges as the Mounties makes it even slower.

[wwbirds]

Personally I could care less what police officers are issued to use while on duty so comparing them being allowed a firearm not available to the general public makes no difference. We have to register handguns as well and police do not, nor security guards etc. that use them where reasonable force must be used or met.

Fish gunner
Hows that working out in the most armed & crimimalized, murderd nation on earth ??? Oh not worth a dime.

If you are referring to the USA you should get your facts straight. US population is most armed country in the world with 88 firearms per 100 people. They rank 111 in the world for murder by firearms.
Great Britain where guns are very much controlled has higher rates as do 109 other countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by wwbirds

Personally I could care less what police officers are issued to use while on duty so comparing them being allowed a firearm not available to the general public makes no difference. We have to register handguns as well and police do not, nor security guards etc. that use them where reasonable force must be used or met.



If you are referring to the USA you should get your facts straight. US population is most armed country in the world with 88 firearms per 100 people. They rank 111 in the world for murder by firearms.
Great Britain where guns are very much controlled has higher rates as do 109 other countries.

Please put thay stat up . iirc the uk is .2 per 100 thou . canada is .5 per 100 k the USis 2.5 ish per 100 k 24x higher than the UK and 12x higher than canada nice try though great effort . Did you even read your link lololo UK .2 PER 100 k canada .5 ph and ....US 10.3 PER . Oops did you ppst the right link
5

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Well at least give them a chance to succeed before we pass judgement that the program is destined to fail. At least they listen to recommendations made and trying to improve conditions for the Members. If they ignored the recommendations then we would have reason to be upset. Change is slow in any government group and one as larges as the Mounties makes it even slower.

Didn't I?

[bobalong]

[QUOTE=brendan's dad;2730732]So that "Trademans" was an expert with his hammer the first day he showed up on the job site? I wondering if a journeyman tells the "new guy" to go buy an Estwing or a "Crappy Tire" wooden jobby. Fairly sure the journeyman would suggest to learn on the best hammer possible as it would make him a more efficient framer.(3 swings as opposed to 7). Journeyman might also offer some training and assistance to the new guy to make him successful.

My point was that when you are using a "tool" every day you will become proficient with it much faster, and maintain that proficiency, because you are using it every day, I thought that was pretty clear? If you would care to actually read my post, I did not say getting the new rifles was a bad thing????[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by connexion123

Comical. You think you're right. I think I'm right. I'll put 20$ on me that our firearms get taken in 10 years.

I'll take that bet, sort of, I will bet $20, that your firearms probably gets taken.

.

[darbgnik]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Load of guff . A canadian has every right to protect themselves. When at home you can even take another humans life . In what delusion is that not protecting ones self ??

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01...ked-attackers/

Maybe this is what he meant..........

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Didn't I?

In an earlier post you mentioned that the RCMP has been on steady decline since 1990's. It is not by chance that this has happened and to think that all of sudden the RCMP became a poison group over night is false.

In the early 90's the RCMP for first time was taken to task on treatment of their Members when an RCMP diver was killed due to sub par equipment. At the enquiry the ruling came down that the RCMP could no longer dictate how they operated in relation to health and safety of it's employees. This was real start of the public getting a glimpse of the internal working of the RCMP. Prior to this if anyone outside the organization would dare to tell the Mounties how to do business would have been quickly told to get stuffed. From this one event in Halifax the media closely began to watch and report the misconduct within the Force. As stories grew the public demanded to know more grew. Then in the 2000 with social media and the invention of the cell phone video it exploded.

When I hear that the RCMP is not the force it was 50 years ago I laugh. The reality is that you and everyone else didn't know any of dark secrets of Force 50 years ago. Talk to any retired Member and listen to stories of Policing prior to the Charter and the things they got away with. If you truly believe that all the things being report now haven't happened before and in many cases worst, then I want to come look at the rainbow in your world

Note: that is my first "snap out of it" ever... Kinda feel good.

[wwbirds]

Didn't notice that was a wiki link when what I wanted was a you tube link
Number One With a Bullet!
Enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

[twofifty]

Brendan's dad your jumping all over the place on this subject has plum exhausted me. Good night.

[HalfBreed]

Originally Posted by darbgnik

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01...ked-attackers/

Maybe this is what he meant..........

This sums it up nicely, though not the story I was thinking of. It's not the only one.

I personally don't care what law enforcers carry.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by AI 6.5

Man where to start. Sorry but you don't have a clue. A pistol caliber is just that, no matter what platform its fired from. There a more and more bad guys out there wearing body armour and some even with ballistic plates. A handgun round is going to do squat. I can't believe some of the crap that's posted here, that's why I don't post much. Sometimes you just gotta shake your head and button your lip. As far as an AR platform being for CQB.....

How many bag guys have worn body armor in Canada?

A handgun round fired from a longer barrel generates significantly more velocity than from a 4" barrel. Mechtec Carbine owners know this quite well.

The AR Plarform C8's as issued are geared towards CQB. If you doubt that, go look at one.

I held one of the RCMP Containment unit's C8's. Aimpoint, short barrel. (no i did not measure it)

But certainly close quarters.

Where does the escalation stop? That C8 looks so naked without a grenade launcher under it

[58thecat]

Good morning all....ready for round 8? Let's dance

[silver]

I have been following this one sort of, been interested at the level of reading comprehension or lack there of, watched people pull numbers out of thin air that magically support their view point, and saw people trying to score interweb brownie points on others.

I was thinking of trying to bring a little light to this discussion but nope, not worth my time.

[brendan's dad]

Oh, please grace us with your profound knowledge on the subject.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by twofifty

Brendan's dad your jumping all over the place on this subject has plum exhausted me. Good night.

Not jumping around at all. Every time the RCMP are mentioned on AO and regardless of the topic, within 2 pages up comes Vancouver, Mayerthorpe, High River and any other black eye on the Force.

To clarify I don't feel the Force was rotten 50 years and I definitely don't feel it is rotten today. I actually believe it has improve on it's treatment of Members and accountability to the Public. The reason everyone now feels the RCMP has lost it's way is that while being transparent and accountable to the public the RCMP has made known the indiscretions of its Members. That does not mean that serious breaches of conduct did not take place 50 years ago, it's just we didn't know about it 50 years.

So instead of tearing them apart when information comes forward about misconduct, or criticizing them on the Carbine program while it is in it's infant stage, give them some credit for attempting to become better, that is all I am saying

And all you High River die hards, I know you don't agree that there was any transparency with the enquiry, but I believe that none of you would have been happy with the result until there was public executions or at least lashings with a wet noodle! So be it.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by darbgnik

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/01...ked-attackers/

Maybe this is what he meant..........

He was acquitted and the judge stated he had every right to arm and defend himself...............It sucked that he had to got through the trial, but this case and other similar ones are firmly entrenching the right to self defense.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by Cappy

He was acquitted and the judge stated he had every right to arm and defend himself...............It sucked that he had to got through the trial, but this case and other similar ones are firmly entrenching the right to self defense.

But that's the point. It shouldn't have even gone to trial. One gets the sense that when it comes to self defense you are considered guilty until proven innocent.

[Cappy]

I agree, he never should have gone to trial. However this trial, the trial in Pincher Creek around the same time frame and a couple others will hopefully in the future prevent any more from having to. The standard will always be was it reasonable given the circumstances.

[coreya3212]

Good post Brendans Dad ( #198 ). To add a bit. I often feel some of the attacks on the RCMP on this forum stem from the Firearms Act. It seems to often be perceived that the RCMP are responsible for it. They aren't. The law was dropped in their lap and they exist to enforce the laws, not to agree or disagree with them. Even the list of Prohibited vs Restricted etc...they are charged with determining what firearm gets on what list. If I was an officer in charge of that making that list, it would be empty, and the perception would be that I wasn't doing my job, I suspect they would replace me with a liberal who would fill the lists....


I remember Randy leading the charge against the LGR and it seems to me his right hand held a list of police officers that were against it....

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Ask the 55 odd thousand kids that starved to death today bought "God given rights " ask the women in northen Iraq or far flung Afghanistan abought rights . How much of a tax Increase would you accept for the rights of others lololol
Join the CF forces then you will understand fighting for" rights " why do americans have less rights than germans and more than mexicans

What tripe you ramble. So here's the deal. As far as I'm concerned, the Christian Church has responsibility to give aid to the poor and infirm. As a Christian, I selectively give money to places that won't waste it on a CEO's salary or operating costs. I also see people in our country in great need, so I believe in helping them as well.

I wouldn't accept willingly a tax increase under the guise of helping others because 90% gets embezzled one way or another. I'm not in Iraq or Afghanistan, and despite how muslims there seem to treat Christians, I still think it is Christlike to continue to help others.

You never really answered my questions. You deflected them with half statements and questions towards myself.

See we're not in Iraq or Afghanistan, we're not in Venezuela or Brazil, we're not a third world country despite what globalist interests and self serving governments would like to make us. At this point, I still have those rights. While I lament other countries not being free, I still will fight for my rights and the rights of others while we have them.

I write politicians municipally, federally, provincially, to lobby keeping those rights and gaining more. I educate people, volunteer my time and my money to help others and help others fight for those rights. I was at one time in the CF, and found it did not match my personality, so I left. Even so, I would fight with the CF if my country needed me or drafted me.

While you question my character and dodge my questions, you seem willing not to just inform of your opinion, but push your agenda. Like global warming for instance, or bashing the USA for instance. Like your misinformed opinion of Christianity for another instance.

You go beyond opinion. You harangue and scream about how your opinion is right but with malice vilify others for doing the same. It's a double standard that you well love and I've seen that over the years.

[TripleTTT]

Mods?????
Can you close this thread?
Please?
No longer ONTOPIC...

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

Mods?????
Can you close this thread?
Please?
No longer ONTOPIC...

If you really want to see off topic, try closing your eyes and reading the whole thread.....

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

Mods?????
Can you close this thread?
Please?
No longer ONTOPIC...

I don't think I've ever seen a thread past 5pages that remained 100% on topic.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

How many bag guys have worn body armor in Canada?

A handgun round fired from a longer barrel generates significantly more velocity than from a 4" barrel. Mechtec Carbine owners know this quite well.

The AR Plarform C8's as issued are geared towards CQB. If you doubt that, go look at one.

I held one of the RCMP Containment unit's C8's. Aimpoint, short barrel. (no i did not measure it)

But certainly close quarters.

Where does the escalation stop? That C8 looks so naked without a grenade launcher under it

Man you held one? Was it black? Oh gawd with a shortie barrel and an aim point???!!

You're still not making any damn sense.

Ok, so little experiment I did a few years ago, shot a 250 Hornadybhollow point over the chronograph from my .45 Colt 4 1/4" barrel. Did the same with a .357 125 Golddot from a 6" barrel. I then shot the same load out of 20" lever actions. A whopping 250fps faster from the 357 and not nearly that much from the .45.
Not enough to make a whoop of ballistic difference.

The body armour thing is laughable, a large meplat hollow point won't penetrate Kevlar armour until the velocity is increased beyond what a pistol cartridge can generate in any platform. Bullet design matters more. Before you stick you foot in your eye again, carrying a mix of specialty munition along side duty without a significant amount of training is stupid.

Lots and lots of bad guys wear body armour. They aren't stupid if they play that game.

For the last time, ask an expert. Someone that knows something about what you think you're talking about. CQB doesn't mean what you think it means, try 0-15ft in most combat training.

The C8 IUR is intended for general duty use, with the 3moa point aiming device, out the 100's of meters. Call Diemaco and ask them, you know the people that make them for certain purposes. They even sell them to civilians.

Your ignorant fear blathering is old; contribute something intelligent. You just keep reiterating the same pile of "I saw it once and even touched it" crap. You're a self proclaimed falling block and bolt gun guy. Stick to what you know.

[silver]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Oh, please grace us with your profound knowledge on the subject.

I would, but it ain't gonna work.

In order to be enlightened, you have to have an open mind. You have to listen.

That doesn't exist on this thread.

The original post was looking at the RCMP fear of firearms in the hands of civilians, and the carbine in the hands of the RCMP was an assault rifle in the hands of the populace.

It has deteriorated into argueing and bickering and wandered a long way off topic.

This should be closed.

[norwestalta]

Why should it be closed if people are conversing what the want to talk about.

[silver]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Why should it be closed if people are conversing what the want to talk about.

It should be closed because it has derailed, gone a long way off topic.

You want to talk about something, start your own thread.