Lloydminster RCMP

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by sprbloggins

They know they are outnumbered not liked and crapped on my just about everyone on the street.

And incidents like High Prairie will continue to confirm in the general public opinion that the RCMP can not be trusted. How many of the RCMP have done the honourable thing and stepped up to tell the truth on what really happened there..........none, not one of them.

.

The RCMP organization has lost too many brave Officers in the line of duty in the last few years and right now certain people here on this thread are doing nothing but insulting and thumbing their noses up at them.

I don't believe anyone, including myself are attempting to insult any RCMP that has died in the line of duty. Trying to deflect criticism away from the dishonourable actions of some RCMP, because some brave RCMP have lost their lives is not fair IMO, or even related.

This shouldn't be a Anti-Police thread.

Until the RCMP come clean on the High River incident, many threads on the RCMP are going to include some anti-police sentiment. The RCMP have got to realize some of their actions are not going to be forgotten and to try and keep justifying their "illegal actions" at High River, just continues to confirm in the publics eye that they can not be trusted.
My 2 cents fellow Outdoorsmen.

E22B out.

Originally Posted by roper1

Carbine training, situational awareness, investigative techniques, none are worth shat if they are not practiced. The idea there will be enough practice to MAINTAIN PROFICIENCY is laughable, absolutely flat laughable if wasn't so unfortunate. Waste of taxpayers time & money on a firearm gathering dust in the console!! How many instances of the cops unable to kill an out-of -control poodle @ 15 paces??? I really wish every officer returned home safe end of every shift, but more likely to get hurt on the side of the road, if you can believe what you read. Forget more firepower, they won't know how to shoot it, IMO.

I agree, I have seen numerous statements on here comparing the new rifles as just being a tool, the same as tradesman want the best tools. I don't believe these are similar at all. A tradesman uses their tools everyday, and becomes extremely proficient with them, an RCMP does not. That said, I do believe in some situations the new rifles will benefit the officers that become proficient with them.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I agree, I have seen numerous statements on here comparing the new rifles as just being a tool, the same as tradesman want the best tools. I don't believe these are similar at all. A tradesman uses their tools everyday, and becomes extremely proficient with them, an RCMP does not. That said, I do believe in some situations the new rifles will benefit the officers that become proficient with them.

You forgot iyo.

[twofifty]

Originally Posted by Ruffgrouse

A Cop bashing thread on AO.... who would have ever guessed.

Some of you are really out of touch. Very Sad.

Experts in the field I would guess.

We are hiring.... how about you get off your ass and make a difference.

My expertise in the field lies in having been a law-abiding citizen of this country for more than 5 decades. I also pay attention to the patterns of what's going on around me, wherever I live. When a pattern arises, that's as telling to me as it is to a police investigator.

Ruff, since you likely see my posts as cop bashing, perhaps you could address the institution-wide patterns I have pointed out. Did I make up the Robert Dziekański tasering death and subsequent enquiry? Mayerthorpe's failures in leadership? Or the women members' complaints about on the job sexual harassment? High River?


I figure it's got to be bewildering and painful for shiny idealistic new members to run into this disconnect between the force and Society.

What does Depot do to help them understand that this is not so much popular hate directed at them personally, as it is the population being fed up with the institution's BS and coverups....and the officer happens to be right there to bear the brunt of this scepticism?

Or if you prefer, explain to us what preparation the new hires get to help them deal with the negative response the force's decades of stonewalling and unaccountability has sown among the population at large.

Or are the cadets let loose with no preparation in that regard, save for the hint that civilians are _holes and liars?

P.S. I am for the new rifles: with much training and retraining and testing and oversight.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Ruffgrouse

A Cop bashing thread on AO.... who would have ever guessed.

Some of you are really out of touch. Very Sad.

Experts in the field I would guess.

We are hiring.... how about you get off your ass and make a difference.

Take your head from your posterior. No one is bashing police. Not only that but I at one time wanted to join the R.C.M.P., the advice from people in the org, not going to like it. It has sunk pretty low at points. Used to be an org. Of integrity.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Yeah but there are Member issued the Carbine and they are with them for the entire shift. The numbers will increase over time but training is slow. It took 4 years to convert the RCMP from revolvers to pistols and that was a 3 day course.

If you can find a documented Police shooting over 200 meters, post it up and I would be happy to have a look.

And yes if you are being shot at you are in imminent danger, but you are also responsible for every round you let go so if it strays or goes through your back drop, "I was being shot at" won't cut it in an enquiry. At 250 m can you really accurately assess any situation or potential dangers. Might try to close the distance a little before opening up.

Funny idea. Issue scary assault rifle now, train later. You gotta do a lot to bomb at a police inquiry.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by sprbloggins

RCMP officers around Canada face increasingly widespread criticism, rush to judgement and trial-by-media, as anti-police rhetoric reaches a fever pitch. We are now seeing that the impact of anti-police sentiment statements such as “police officers are the enemy” taken to an extreme, can destabilize communities, towns and city's.

My spouse who is a member sees this everyday she steps out and works with the community. The "system is obviously broken and needs to be fixed."
Not every member treats the community/individuals like crap and "bully's" them like some posts here say. They know they are outnumbered not liked and crapped on my just about everyone on the street.

Complaints here say 10-20 minutes to get to a local call? When there is only one Member on duty that shift (not the Members fault) they have to realize their safety is on the line and backup could be hours away and they have no idea what the circumstances are.

I saw many Canadians complain and throw insults at myself and other members of the CF when we were in A'Stan. I believed in the cause when we were there just like some of the Mounties who believe in the cause they serve.

The RCMP organization has lost too many brave Officers in the line of duty in the last few years and right now certain people here on this thread are doing nothing but insulting and thumbing their noses up at them.

Should they or shouldn't they have AR style weapons? Well that's why we are here debating this issue. This shouldn't be a Anti-Police thread.

My 2 cents fellow Outdoorsmen.

E22B out.

Very well said, I too have had friends who after their army stint went into law enforcement etc and I tell ya they are the best, thick skinned and put themselfs out there for the community, family, friends. Thanks to all who serve their country, aid others as a profession, day in and day out relentlessly. I guess if you never been in a hot situation you can't really relate but as you indicated the question was about a new AR rifle and I say yes.
Give your spouse a hug and a kiss, thank her for us, thank you for your service.
Perseverance!
24C OUT.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Ruffgrouse

A Cop bashing thread on AO.... who would have ever guessed.

Some of you are really out of touch. Very Sad.

Experts in the field I would guess.

We are hiring.... how about you get off your ass and make a difference.

Step up.....

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by twofifty

My expertise in the field lies in having been a law-abiding citizen of this country for more than 5 decades. I also pay attention to the patterns of what's going on around me, wherever I live. When a pattern arises, that's as telling to me as it is to a police investigator.

Ruff, since you likely see my posts as cop bashing, perhaps you could address the institution-wide patterns I have pointed out. Did I make up the Robert Dziekański tasering death and subsequent enquiry? Mayerthorpe's failures in leadership? Or the women members' complaints about on the job sexual harassment? High River?


I figure it's got to be bewildering and painful for shiny idealistic new members to run into this disconnect between the force and Society.

What does Depot do to help them understand that this is not so much popular hate directed at them personally, as it is the population being fed up with the institution's BS and coverups....and the officer happens to be right there to bear the brunt of this scepticism?

Or if you prefer, explain to us what preparation the new hires get to help them deal with the negative response the force's decades of stonewalling and unaccountability has sown among the population at large.

Or are the cadets let loose with no preparation in that regard, save for the hint that civilians are _holes and liars?

P.S. I am for the new rifles: with much training and retraining and testing and oversight.

So how much training, retraining, testing , and oversight do you believe is required? Give us some numbers. How long would you make the initial training? How often would they re-qualify?

Question is open to anyone with expertise in the area or an opinion.

[kingrat]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

I do wonder. Since you raise this point. Think of the last shooting (in PARLIMENT!)

All those rounds that the RCMP fired.... imagine if those were from 'Partol Cabines'

Those 5.56's would still be ricocheting around, and might even have gone through a few doors......

How many rounds that were 'Misses?'

FMG

I would imagine they`ll use a bullet such as the barnes grenade or similiar, lessen the ricochets it wont be fmj I guarentee that.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by Ruffgrouse

A Cop bashing thread on AO.... who would have ever guessed.

Some of you are really out of touch. Very Sad.

Experts in the field I would guess.

We are hiring.... how about you get off your ass and make a difference.

This thread was started simply pointing out the comment about firearms ownership. Many of us have felt that attitude was an institutional (and, in many cases, personal) belief. To see it printed so boldly was new to me.

For the record, I do not have the right personality to be a police officer. I have served in the military, and I learnt this about myself. I did not go into my personal opinion on officers being issued these rifles (I could, but I think you wouldn't like it...). I have met great RCMP officers, and I have met ONE not so great one. Just lucky I guess. I still have issues with the INSTITUTION.

[Iron Brew]

Originally Posted by kingrat

I would imagine they`ll use a bullet such as the barnes grenade or similiar, lessen the ricochets it wont be fmj I guarentee that.

.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

This thread was started simply pointing out the comment about firearms ownership. Many of us have felt that attitude was an institutional (and, in many cases, personal) belief. To see it printed so boldly was new to me.

For the record, I do not have the right personality to be a police officer. I have served in the military, and I learnt this about myself. I did not go into my personal opinion on officers being issued these rifles (I could, but I think you wouldn't like it...). I have met great RCMP officers, and I have met ONE not so great one. Just lucky I guess. I still have issues with the INSTITUTION.

Well said. It's as if it's a sacred right to be a police officer and all should bow down. With great power comes great responsibility. That is a fact. That isn't to say the rank and file are all bad. Some are, some aren't.

Fact is all police are people. Some are family men and women. Some want true justice. Some want the power. There is a whole host of reasons why some join and we must always remember this. People are fallible. While police are granted more authority than a regular joe, we need to recognize that some are unworthy.

Until the police truly start policing themselves to a high standard, the gap will widen. It will create division and that is not a good thing. Deny that policing is better now relationally than 30 years ago. You can't.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by connexion123

As norwestalta has stated, the police hold NO DUTY to protect the population.

Like it or not, there it is. Best to clear that argument right from your mind as it is false.

That's not true and you should become aquainted with the Magna Carta and the Common Law duties of a police officer in Canada.

Originally Posted by connexion123

That's the same argument that has allowed the militarization of our police.

Poor.

What militarization? Facts here, not tinfoil hat garble with pictures of a ERT/TAC officer with specialized equip and a armoured command vehicle of which they as a whole don't have enough of to coup a single large city in Canada.

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

True. But a Beretta CX4 would be a more logical choice. 9mm common ammo.

Even if the RC's move to .40 the CX has that covered as well.

I do not enjoy seeing more militarization of the force, and this double standard they use to incite fear in the general population. It is deliberately misleading!

And using an AR is using an AR.

With the RCMP's general lack of maintenance to ALL their firearms, how long will it take an AR that has been 'rode hard and put up wet' to fail in the field?

When the gas tube is plugged from gasses, and condensation, etc etc, and only one round fires before the rifle fails to cycle? That's dangerous to the member right there.

If the members cannot even maintain a basic bolt action rifle (i've cleaned many of them BEFORE allowing them to fire them at our range, that's how dirty they were) how can we expect them to clean something a lot more complicated (to the avg member?)

You may want to become better educated on battle proven platforms and ballistics. Over penetration and ricochete rounds is a higher probability with the handgun rounds than a high velocity frangible. Lots of data out there on this that doesn't rely on backwoods trigonometry.

It also makes more sense for them to have a platform made in Canada, respected around the world.

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Mayerthorpe was a hunting rifle. The RCMP have plenty of those. And at the Range of engagement, a rifle would make the difference. NOT an AR!!

Pistol Caliber Carbines make the most sense as I have stated earlier.

Plenty of firepower, plenty of ammo can be carried. Light, simple to operate, easy to maintain, ammunition in carbine works in pistol, and a stray 9mm at 100 yards DOES NOT have the energy to penetrate the walls of a neighbors house... but that 5.56 WILL!!!!

AR's are Close Quarters Combat firearms (CQB) If the police need range, they have the .308 rifles in their armoury.

If they are closer, a pistol carbine is a better choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtkuVzbgD98

Man there is a lot of fail here. First Mayerthorpe was not a hunting rifle, do some research. The AR platform would have worked there very well, and a 9mm round will penetrate a couple walls of a home at 100m. And you should weigh a 124gr 9mm duty round vs a 5.56 round some time. They weigh so identical it doesn't matter (in fact my 69gr 5.56 round weighs less).

And ARs are not CQB platforms but can be modified to be so all folded up, short and stubby. They are intended to engage accurately as far as most people are capable with a .270.

If you actually ask questions of the right people or do some objective reading you will find out that the C8 IUR issued to the RCMP patrol members are not select fire, but semi-auto only.

They have pistols and shotguns for CQ engagement. And pistol caliber carbines are specialized equipment in every world they are used in and make very little sense for the prescribed purpose.

The patrol rifles you talk about aren't available at every detachment I am told and are extremely dated.

Your posts are becoming annoyingly ignorant. I suggest you settle down and speak little past your experience of the odd 3 gun match and shooting at the range.

[fish gunner]

What a bunch of clap trap . ▲▲▲▲from conex 123. . Is a police shooting a daily occurance ..no . Is police intrusion of rights a daily occurance no . Are high river situations any referance to the overall orginization (if any wrong doing is revealed) ..no . the RCMP stand on the side of the people day in and day out 365 /24/7 since?? 18 something ish . 99%+ are very well trained articulate PROFESSIONALS to a man /woman . I guess some folks have little or no contact with the GD . Ive dealt with them on many occasions on both sides of the law .
I personally understand what equipping police with longarms will bring in the long run . Its a shame and a stain on this great country. What are they going to do when they still show up undergunned carring a long arm ?? I guess the ridiculous US influence is taking hold . The london bobby still is unarmed short of a baton ?? Yet they have very few incidence of police being shot ?? And the yanks roll up in apc 's and get shot on a regular basis ?? Looks iike that floats like a concrete balloon .

[rem338win]

Back to the purpose of the OP on this subject: remember that this is an opinion stated by a Constable (lowest rank) from a small detachment in Northern AB/Sask. I doubt that the RCMP propaganda machine was sitting in some corner wringing their hands with glee over the giant boondoggle they just pulled over the sheeps eyes with these statements.

That said we need to be aware also that the RCMP is as a whole anti-gun and so is most media and they will twist the situation to help their agenda. If you aren't aware of that you've hidden under a rock.

The police paranoia that this thread has generated is amusing. Lots of these guys are shooters and owners and could care less about what you do or don't own. Real bad guys don't have a "look" or wear signs around their necks so a good cop handles their self like every person may have a weapon on them.

Be polite and have a plan.....

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

What a bunch of clap trap . ▲▲▲▲from conex 123. . Is a police shooting a daily occurance ..no . Is police intrusion of rights a daily occurance no . Are high river situations any referance to the overall orginization (if any wrong doing is revealed) ..no . the RCMP stand on the side of the people day in and day out 365 /24/7 since?? 18 something ish . 99%+ are very well trained articulate PROFESSIONALS to a man /woman . I guess some folks have little or no contact with the GD . Ive dealt with them on many occasions on both sides of the law .
I personally understand what equipping police with longarms will bring in the long run . Its a shame and a stain on this great country. What are they going to do when they still show up undergunned carring a long arm ?? I guess the ridiculous US influence is taking hold . The london bobby still is unarmed short of a baton ?? Yet they have very few incidence of police being shot ?? And the yanks roll up in apc 's and get shot on a regular basis ?? Looks iike that floats like a concrete balloon .

Don't ever herald policing in the UK as a bastion to be obtained. They are an ineffective force who's members get beaten and abused by thugs daily due to the lack of respect and armament they don't carry. Policing in the UK has left their public hanging and the statistics they have are abhorrent. America has nothing to do with our issues in Canada and why we are giving our police officers carbines. It's our desperately failing social engineering program and delapitated justice system. Most police I expect are stuck between the revolving door of the courts and a public that believes all the nasty things said about them.

[Matt L.]

So there is no need to be critical of the police then?

[rem338win]

Didn't say that. I said actually have some understanding of the subject matter and label the individuals responsible instead of tens or hundreds or thousands as a whole.

It's difficult to take anyone seriously when they generalize and use "facts" as substantial as the smoke coming out of their arse.

Like High River: who made that call, why, who opposed it and how was it executed? Then roll out a political force strong in numbers that all share knowledge of the same facts to hold persons accountable and affect change.
Or we could just make crap up on a forum and bleat like.....sheep.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by rem338win

That's not true and you should become aquainted with the Magna Carta and the Common Law duties of a police officer in Canada.




What militarization? Facts here, not tinfoil hat garble with pictures of a ERT/TAC officer with specialized equip and a armoured command vehicle of which they as a whole don't have enough of to coup a single large city in Canada.



You may want to become better educated on battle proven platforms and ballistics. Over penetration and ricochete rounds is a higher probability with the handgun rounds than a high velocity frangible. Lots of data out there on this that doesn't rely on backwoods trigonometry.

It also makes more sense for them to have a platform made in Canada, respected around the world.

Yes, I know nothing about guns, or their charecteristics of different rounds. I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject. In the meantime, I will keep that in mind at the next 3 gun shoot.


Man there is a lot of fail here. First Mayerthorpe was not a hunting rifle, do some research. The AR platform would have worked there very well, and a 9mm round will penetrate a couple walls of a home at 100m. And you should weigh a 124gr 9mm duty round vs a 5.56 round some time. They weigh so identical it doesn't matter (in fact my 69gr 5.56 round weighs less).

And ARs are not CQB platforms but can be modified to be so all folded up, short and stubby. They are intended to engage accurately as far as most people are capable with a .270.

Sure, but you guys are not getting the AR in 6.8SPC, and the last RCMP issue C8 I handled a month ago was not a long barreled match grade with a magnifying optic, but a 3 MOA Aimpoint.

If you actually ask questions of the right people or do some objective reading you will find out that the C8 IUR issued to the RCMP patrol members are not select fire, but semi-auto only.

I know they are semi auto?? What point are you trying to make?

They have pistols and shotguns for CQ engagement. And pistol caliber carbines are specialized equipment in every world they are used in and make very little sense for the prescribed purpose.

Ok, so explain to me (in simple terms if you please) what the prescribed use of the AR/C8 will be as tasked within the scope of the RCMP. I am just dying to know.

The patrol rifles you talk about aren't available at every detachment I am told and are extremely dated.

They are dated, and shoot quite well Dated from the standpoint of having a wood stock and not looking 'tacticool'.. but there is no doubt they work and work well.

Your posts are becoming annoyingly ignorant. I suggest you settle down and speak little past your experience of the odd 3 gun match and shooting at the range.

Ignorant? Hardly. But you are beating me with experience in that.

Thanks

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Ignorant? Hardly. But you are beating me with experience in that.

Thanks

Sure thing boss. I can see that when you are confronted with a response that includes reason and facts you're quite articulate. It may take me awhile to ponder a response for reply.

I expect the next one to read something along the lines of "I'm not going to come down to your level" or "it's not worth engaging you".

Just a start though, Google Heckler Koch Model 91 and reference that as a hunting rifle in Canada. I'm interested, as an ignorant person, in being enlightened as to how a 1970's era Model 70 detachment rifle is a better response to a homicidal person with a prohibited long gun given your expertise.
This would be a good start......

And try not mixing your responses inside my quote without some sort of break. It is fairly easy to recognize your, um, stuff mixed in but it makes it difficult to respond directly.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by bobalong

I agree, I have seen numerous statements on here comparing the new rifles as just being a tool, the same as tradesman want the best tools. I don't believe these are similar at all. A tradesman uses their tools everyday, and becomes extremely proficient with them, an RCMP does not. That said, I do believe in some situations the new rifles will benefit the officers that become proficient with them.

So that "Trademans" was an expert with his hammer the first day he showed up on the job site? I wondering if a journeyman tells the "new guy" to go buy an Estwing or a "Crappy Tire" wooden jobby. Fairly sure the journeyman would suggest to learn on the best hammer possible as it would make him a more efficient framer.(3 swings as opposed to 7). Journeyman might also offer some training and assistance to the new guy to make him successful.

How do you purpose that the Members learn to use the C8 if not given the opportunity?

The RCMP Carbine is 5 days long and in comparison the EPS's Carbine course is 3 days long. I haven't heard of any reports coming out of Edmonton of Police Officers shooting themselves in the foot or running around like Rambo.

If a Member can qualify with a pistol (and they all do to graduate from Depot) then safely handling and accurately shooting the C8 should be no problem. It is much easier maining control or accurately shooting a C8 than a handgun, ask anyone who has done both.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by rem338win

Sure thing boss. I can see that when you are confronted with a response that includes reason and facts you're quite articulate. It may take me awhile to ponder a response for reply.

I expect the next one to read something along the lines of "I'm not going to come down to your level" or "it's not worth engaging you".

Just a start though, Google Heckler Koch Model 91 and reference that as a hunting rifle in Canada. I'm interested, as an ignorant person, in being enlightened as to how a 1970's era Model 70 detachment rifle is a better response to a homicidal person with a prohibited long gun given your expertise.
This would be a good start......

Interesting choice. Not really a fan. I am a bolt action/falling block afficionado.

As a hunting rifle? I believe these are not difficult to convert to selective fire?

And going by the looks alone, they are a G3 Prohib Variant? Probably a 12.4.

Having not handled this platform, I AM making a guess here.

I would still take a Detachment .308 over that firearm. More Lead does not equal 'more dead'.

All things being equal, in terms of engagement over Distance, a more accurate platform with magnifying optics will win first.

As with most military engagements, 'he who is seen first is DOA" applies.
Wether it is in the field or in the sky.

Action Beats Reaction in close quarters. When not in close quarters, "He who is seen first is DOA"

Tactics, not firepower then becomes the order of the day no?

However, if I had to pick a Semi Auto that could fill both duties, how about an HK PSG-1

I like those much better.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Interesting choice. Not really a fan. I am a bolt action/falling block afficionado.

As a hunting rifle? I believe these are not difficult to convert to selective fire?

And going by the looks alone, they are a G3 Prohib Variant? Probably a 12.4.

Having not handled this platform, I AM making a guess here.

I would still take a Detachment .308 over that firearm. More Lead does not equal 'more dead'.

All things being equal, in terms of engagement over Distance, a more accurate platform with magnifying optics will win first.

As with most military engagements, 'he who is seen first is DOA" applies.
Wether it is in the field or in the sky.

Action Beats Reaction in close quarters. When not in close quarters, "He who is seen first is DOA"

Tactics, not firepower then becomes the order of the day no?

However, if I had to pick a Semi Auto that could fill both duties, how about an HK PSG-1

I like those much better.

And you didn't bother becoming aquanted with it at all. The HK91 is far greater than equal in ballistics, firepower and accuracy compared to the average detachment carbine. And the HK91 is what Roszko used at Mayerthorpe, his hunting rifle you called it.

You keep trolling down the path of yelling louder makes prouder. You still have little knowledge (admittedly) of the facts and less experience, and surely you'll still go on and on about it.

FYI the PSG-1 is a "sniper" platform built off of the HK91. That hunting rifle Roszko had. So all the concern of a 5.56 bouncing around and blowing through innocent homes and now you want to put 7.62 NATO (.308 Win) rifles in patrol cars. Genius.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by rem338win

And you didn't bother becoming aquanted with it at all. The HK91 is far greater than equal in ballistics, firepower and accuracy compared to the average detachment carbine. And the HK91 is what Roszko used at Mayerthorpe, his hunting rifle you called it.

You keep trolling down the path of yelling louder makes prouder. You still have little knowledge (admittedly) of the facts and less experience, and surely you'll still go on and on about it.

FYI the PSG-1 is a "sniper" platform built off of the HK91. That hunting rifle Roszko had. So all the concern of a 5.56 bouncing around and blowing through innocent homes and now you want to put 7.62 NATO (.308 Win) rifles in patrol cars. Genius.

I admitted to not being acquainted with the HK91 what more do you want?

You accuse me of trolling, yet you have not answered a few simple questions I posed earlier when I quoted you. So you are going off on the offensive, to deflect and calling me the troll??

It's laughable. An yet your responses embody so much of what is wrong with the RCMP today. You represent it well.

[rem338win]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

I admitted to not being acquainted with the HK91 what more do you want?

You accuse me of trolling, yet you have not answered a few simple questions I posed earlier when I quoted you. So you are going off on the offensive, to deflect and calling me the troll??

It's laughable. An yet your responses embody so much of what is wrong with the RCMP today. You represent it well.

First I am not a member of the RCMP, and never said I was. Not my thing, but there you go taking no facts and creating an assumption again.

You asked no questions. You made statements, and they made no sense, but I will try to read your mind.

The 6.8SPC is a specialized cartridge that was created for US special forces for specific operations. Ballistically it has a shorter Point Blank Range than the 5.56 and is WAY more expensive to shoot. This really has nothing to do with anything in this conversation given that the 5.56 was created for use and is still the chamber general infantry uses in the military for ALL engagement. That means 100's of meters and it does it well.

A 3 MOA dot is just peachy for anyone to hit torso targets out to 300m's just fine, without magnification. It's done all the time, and I believe is even part of some of the training done with different departments in Canada who have issued the carbines.

Barrel length from 14-20" has nothing to do with distance of engagement practically. Ask the folks on here who shoot service rifle or have served in the military.

The carbines aren't being issued to make every member of the RCMP snipers capable of shooting apricots at 500m. They have ERT for that. It's so they can engage targets at greater distances than their pistols and shotguns accurately and the C8 fits that bill very well. I am sure they didn't hire or consult with experts with experience on the matter given the expense of the inquiries and reports created out of Mayerthorpe, Moncton and other events were members were under armed and gunned down.

Most of the RCMP's reasoning for finally coming into the 21st century is detailed in the publicly available reports, like Monctons. Read one. Why the nations police force would like to have an upper hand on criminals is beyond me really.

Or stick to falling blocks and hunting rifles, and leave the other stuff to those who actually want to know.

[Mhunter51]

This LEO bashing has come to a new low in this threat. The same people are posting the same trash over and over again about the mounties and other leo's. You pick a few ( and yes comparitively the instances are few )circumstances, now nothing about the situation other than what you read in the paper which is ALWAYS correct and blow it out of proportion to meet your own little arguement. Hopefully you will never need police assistance in a situation, but I'm sure if you do in your eyes they won't handle it up to your high expectations anyway. Now all the leo bashers move on to the next thread because it WILL be the same people bringing up the same few instances for the same 89 times. Give your heads a shake and apreciate them for all the good that is done. or maybe quite discussing all the faults with Captain Morgan before logging on here.

[Redfrog]

"The RCMP Carbine is 5 days long and in comparison the EPS's Carbine course is 3 days long. I haven't heard of any reports coming out of Edmonton of Police Officers shooting themselves in the foot or running around like Rambo.

If a Member can qualify with a pistol (and they all do to graduate from Depot) then safely handling and accurately shooting the C8 should be no problem. It is much easier maining control or accurately shooting a C8 than a handgun, ask anyone who has done both."


So does that mean that the RCMP do not learn as fast as EPS?

I agree with your second statement here. Makes sense. Oh wait. Did you mean a member of the RCMP or a member of the public?

Cause I've always been confused as to why someone who is qualified and licensed to own a magnum rifle, also qualified to own and use a handgun, simply cannot be trusted with a carry permit while hunting.

BTW I've attended an animal involved MVA on several occasions where the "Member" couldn't dispatch a moose from 5 feet away. As a matter of fact, I've never seen one do it with one shot at that distance.

I have no issue with RCMP or any police force having up to date gear and guns. Trained and proficient, I'll sleep better because they are working.

[HalfBreed]

Possibly not related, but how many instances have a Canadian police force found a requirement to utilize suppressive fire?

Civilians?

What is exactly being gained with an AR platform? I certainly can understand some cost savings if the weapons are old hand me downs from the military.

I suppose I'm IBTL on this topic.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

What a bunch of clap trap . ▲▲▲▲from conex 123. . Is a police shooting a daily occurance ..no . Is police intrusion of rights a daily occurance no . Are high river situations any referance to the overall orginization (if any wrong doing is revealed) ..no . the RCMP stand on the side of the people day in and day out 365 /24/7 since?? 18 something ish . 99%+ are very well trained articulate PROFESSIONALS to a man /woman . I guess some folks have little or no contact with the GD . Ive dealt with them on many occasions on both sides of the law .
I personally understand what equipping police with longarms will bring in the long run . Its a shame and a stain on this great country. What are they going to do when they still show up undergunned carring a long arm ?? I guess the ridiculous US influence is taking hold . The london bobby still is unarmed short of a baton ?? Yet they have very few incidence of police being shot ?? And the yanks roll up in apc 's and get shot on a regular basis ?? Looks iike that floats like a concrete balloon .

One intrusion one a free person's rights is wrong and an intrusion on all of us.

What's the matter gum gum? Don't like freedom? Or don't like OTHERS having theirs?

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Mhunter51

This LEO bashing has come to a new low in this threat. The same people are posting the same trash over and over again about the mounties and other leo's. You pick a few ( and yes comparitively the instances are few )circumstances, now nothing about the situation other than what you read in the paper which is ALWAYS correct and blow it out of proportion to meet your own little arguement. Hopefully you will never need police assistance in a situation, but I'm sure if you do in your eyes they won't handle it up to your high expectations anyway. Now all the leo bashers move on to the next thread because it WILL be the same people bringing up the same few instances for the same 89 times. Give your heads a shake and apreciate them for all the good that is done. or maybe quite discussing all the faults with Captain Morgan before logging on here.

I'm unsure what bashing you're taking offence to? Like you and I people are just expressing their opinions and nobody has said anything derogatory about the mounties, more about the system that works against them and Joe public.