Lloydminster RCMP - Page 3

Got Juice? · #61 02-09-2015, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Got Juice

Not sure what you do for a profession but I am sure that you appreciate using the best equipment possible to complete your job.

For too long the RCMP have "made due" with sub par equipment. Practically every other Police Force has a "Patrol Carbine" Colt is the most proven and widely accepted platform for performance and reliability, why wouldn't the Mounties want the best?

Don't you on your job?

I agree the RCMP need an equipment upgrade. I disagree with the equipment they have chosen.

The piston driven AR platform would have been better as it is more 'Dummy Proof' than a DI AR.

I can relate that the horsemen want the best, but typically they are ill trained to use it and maintain it. And I have seen with my own eyes that most members can BARELY qualify with their sidearms that they are most familiar with.

Truthfully, a Beretta CX Cabine, or even a Kriss Vector would have been a better choice as a 'Patrol Carbine'

NOT an AR. Leave that for the units trained in AR use. (Containment Teams, Emergency Response Team etc)

I guess I am in the minority here. But for some reason this is very ominous and makes my blood run cold. Especially the RCMP wording in that article.

twofifty · #62 02-09-2015, 06:33 PM

The word "carbine" sounds soft and fluffy, harmless. Like the white kitty cats used on TV to sell 3-ply quilted toilet paper.

The general population already knows that handguns, rifles and shotguns are weapons of mass destruction. A carbine is an unknown concept and therefore not fear inducing the way that a black "assault rifle" is in the general public's mind.

C5Hines · #63 02-09-2015, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

I do not enjoy seeing more militarization of the force, and this double standard they use to incite fear in the general population. It is deliberately misleading!

So what do you suggest? Do we get the military to police us then? Cause if we had it your way they would be the only ones able to match firepower with some of the clowns out there.

You can't send police officers to a situation with nothing but pistols and shotguns when the people they need to stop have automatic weapons.

Got Juice? · #64 02-09-2015, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Got Juice

Not sure what you do for a profession but I am sure that you appreciate using the best equipment possible to complete your job.

Yes, and there is a right tool and a wrong tool.

I tend not to use the 40lb maul on a finishing nail, and I do not use a tack hammer on an 8" Ardox.

And I have no job

I am reinventing myself. I have been retired for 6 months, and I am BORED out of my mind.

Heck I might even go back to school

Got Juice? · #65 02-09-2015, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

The word "carbine" sounds soft and fluffy, harmless. Like the white kitty cats used on TV to sell 3-ply quilted toilet paper.

The general population already knows that handguns, rifles and shotguns are weapons on mass destruction. A carbine is an unknown concept and therefore not fear inducing the way that a black "assault rifle" is in the general public's mind.

DING DING DING!!!!

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner!!!

twofifty · #66 02-09-2015, 06:34 PM

That sounds like a plan stan. What in?

6gunner · #67 02-09-2015, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connexion123

As norwestalta has stated, the police hold NO DUTY to protect the population.

Like it or not, there it is. Best to clear that argument right from your mind as it is false.

Than what is there role exactly? Please enlighten us. Is it different from what is posted on their website?

What do we do?
As an RCMP police officer, you will help ensure public safety and security, investigate crimes and enforce the law.

Some of the duties of a police officer:

Enforce the law
Conduct investigations
Ensure the safety and security of the public
Community awareness and relations

rugatika · #68 02-09-2015, 06:38 PM

I would have preferred the RCMP were issued assault rifles myself. Not sure how they expect to be able to defend themselves against criminals that are already armed with assault rifles when all the RCMP got are C8 carbines. Makes it sound like the RCMP can't handle assault rifles, and had to settle for a carbine. I feel for the RCMP...always getting the short end of the stick.

Hopefully they will get the necessary training, as these are high powered rifles. Much more dangerous than their issued handguns. I think. Or is it the other way around? Aren't they all super dangerous? Do we really want any of these weapons out in the public at all?

Got Juice? · #69 02-09-2015, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Hines

So what do you suggest? Do we get the military to police us then? Cause if we had it your way they would be the only ones able to match firepower with some of the clowns out there.

Mayerthorpe was a hunting rifle. The RCMP have plenty of those. And at the Range of engagement, a rifle would make the difference. NOT an AR!!

Pistol Caliber Carbines make the most sense as I have stated earlier.

Plenty of firepower, plenty of ammo can be carried. Light, simple to operate, easy to maintain, ammunition in carbine works in pistol, and a stray 9mm at 100 yards DOES NOT have the energy to penetrate the walls of a neighbors house... but that 5.56 WILL!!!!

AR's are Close Quarters Combat firearms (CQB) If the police need range, they have the .308 rifles in their armoury.

If they are closer, a pistol carbine is a better choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtkuVzbgD98

twofifty · #70 02-09-2015, 06:42 PM

Ruga, there's lots more training time and $ to teach even the very few gifted ones how to control a select fire rifle.

Plus, there is this idea that they have to account for every round...can you imagine the paperwork?

twofifty · #71 02-09-2015, 06:45 PM

Got, the C8 carbine is 5.56mm, not 9mm like that nice CX4 storm that I like shooting in 3gun.

Got Juice? · #72 02-09-2015, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

Got, the C8 carbine is 5.56mm, not 9mm like that nice CX4 storm that I like shooting in 3gun.

Too funny. I guess it really is in the details....

Got Juice? · #73 02-09-2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

Got, the C8 carbine is 5.56mm, not 9mm like that nice CX4 storm that I like shooting in 3gun.

I do wonder. Since you raise this point. Think of the last shooting (in PARLIMENT!)

All those rounds that the RCMP fired.... imagine if those were from 'Partol Cabines'

Those 5.56's would still be ricocheting around, and might even have gone through a few doors......

How many rounds that were 'Misses?'

FMG

rugatika · #74 02-09-2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

Ruga, there's lots more training time and $ to teach even the very few gifted ones how to control a selective fire rifle.

Plus, there is this idea that they have to account for every round...can you imagine the paperwork?

Whoaaaaa!! Selective fire? As in spray and pray? These do not need to be in the hands of anyone but military. There is no way in heck the RCMP need machine guns. Machine guns are for mowing down large numbers of people, as anyone who has ever picked up a newspaper should already know.

rugatika · #75 02-09-2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

Ruga, there's lots more training time and $ to teach even the very few gifted ones how to control a select fire rifle.

Plus, there is this idea that they have to account for every round...can you imagine the paperwork?

Well, how much money do they spend teaching them how to fire the pistols they have?

twofifty · #76 02-09-2015, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C5Hines

So what do you suggest? Do we get the military to police us then? Cause if we had it your way they would be the only ones able to match firepower with some of the clowns out there.

You can't send police officers to a situation with nothing but pistols and shotguns when the people they need to stop have automatic weapons.

C8 in the city is one thing, C8 in the country is a whole other dynamic. For one, the backstop situation is much easier in the boonies.

I'm thinking of the old 'fall a tree ambush on a rural road' situation, where the officer's pistol and shotgun are useless. The officer's only chance of survival is to slam her into reverse to get out of the immediate line of fire, grab the rifle and make for cover. A rural RCMP officer has shared the fact that this is a concern to them.

For that reason, I don't mind that C8s are being issued. The training, tactics, discipline and mindset had better be top notch though. Hmmmm.

twofifty · #77 02-09-2015, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika

Well, how much money do they spend teaching them how to fire the pistols they have?

From what I've seen with mine own eyes, not enough and not often enough.

Got Juice? · #78 02-09-2015, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika

Well, how much money do they spend teaching them how to fire the pistols they have?

Not nearly enough. Sadly most departments severely curtail the ammunition officers can use to practice with.

Even worse, most officers are a ... ummm.. '''thrifty''' bunch, and wouldn't invest a nickel of their own money in training.

Ideally I would like to see the force have a cross platform system.

A Berette 90-Two in .40 cal, and a CX Carbine in .40

They take the same mags, use the same ammo.... so easy, and easy guns to service. (and similar take down and controls) They are a joy to shoot. And very low recoil (faster follow up shots than ANY AR)

And the Carbine is Fully Ambidextrous capable. Something the AR is not (I hate hot brass in the face)

rugatika · #79 02-09-2015, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

C8 in the city is one thing, C8 in the country is a whole other dynamic.

There is the old 'fall a tree ambush on a rural road' situation, where the officer's pistol and shotgun are useless. The officer's only chance of survival is to slam her into reverse to get out of the immediate line of fire, grab the rifle and make for cover.

For that reason, I don't mind that C8s are being issued. The training, tactics, discipline and mindset had better be top notch though. Hmmmm.

Do people ambush the RCMP this way? I've never heard of it myself.

All in all, I have to say I am in favour of the RCMP being issued and allowed to carry any arms that civilans are allowed to carry, as long as they are as proficient as civilians are.

Got Juice? · #80 02-09-2015, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika

Whoaaaaa!! Selective fire? As in spray and pray? .

That will be their next 'Upgrade' in 5 years... since they already have the AR....

And we will read in the news that they need it for some reason......real or imagined.

Got Juice? · #81 02-09-2015, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika

Do people ambush the RCMP this way? I've never heard of it myself.
.

I think he was being sarcastic.

rugatika · #82 02-09-2015, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

I think he was being sarcastic.

Ahhh, OK, that makes more sense then. I wasn't picking up on it...thought he was being serious.

Got Juice? · #83 02-09-2015, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugatika

Ahhh, OK, that makes more sense then. I wasn't picking up on it...thought he was being serious.

I was in the same boat as you... and I thought Surely to God he can't REALLY mean that.....

twofifty · #84 02-09-2015, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

I do wonder. Since you raise this point. Think of the last shooting (in PARLIMENT!)

All those rounds that the RCMP fired.... imagine if those were from 'Partol Cabines'

Those 5.56's would still be ricocheting around, and might even have gone through a few doors......

How many rounds that were 'Misses?'

FMG

......

Surely not through closet doors.

You do make a good point for built up areas and cities.

I hold that rural areas are another kettle of fish, where the officer has nil backup options, no nearby SWAT-ish team warming the bench, etc.
The guy or gal is entirely on their own. I wouldn't do the job unless there was a 5.56 Patrol Carbine in my car.

connexion123 · #85 02-09-2015, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish gunner

They are educating the general public the c8 is a modified assult rifle .modified to semi auto only ..hence patrol carbine. In what way is the description incorrect??

That there is no such thing as an assault rifle period.

Got Juice? · #86 02-09-2015, 07:16 PM

Rugatika. This is why I mentioned the Berettas'

Carbine Avail in 9mm or .40 Cal

http://www.beretta.com/en/cx4-storm/#Features

Handguns That use the SAME Mags:Accepts PX4 and 90-Series Magazines
If you are a current Beretta shooter and own a PX4 or a 90-Series pistol, you can use the magazines you already have for the CX4. The CX4 will also take 8000-series magazines--using optional adapters.

That is a lot of pistols to choose from.

9mm or .40 cal.

Got Juice? · #87 02-09-2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connexion123

That there is no such thing as an assault rifle period.

Unless unloaded and someone is clubbing a person with it......

twofifty · #88 02-09-2015, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

I was in the same boat as you... and I thought Surely to God he can't REALLY mean that.....

Sorry to disappoint once more guys, but this ambush thing came straight from the horse's mouth.

And I respect the member who brought the idea forward. The man also happens to be very proficient with his issue pistol, trains on his own time, has excellent judgement and people skills, etc. Mountain backroads need patrolling too, there are lots of trees, rocks, ridges, cover.

edit: gotta go, back later.

sprbloggins · #89 02-09-2015, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by connexion123

That there is no such thing as an assault rifle period.

Prior to 1989, the term "assault weapon" did not exist in the lexicon of firearms. It is a political term, developed by anti-gun publicists to expand the category of "assault rifles."

rugatika · #90 02-09-2015, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twofifty

Sorry to disappoint once more guys, but this ambush thing came straight from the horse's mouth.

And I respect the member who brought the idea forward. The man also happens to be very proficient with his issue pistol, trains on his own time, has excellent judgement and people skills, etc. Mountain backroads need patrolling too, there are lots of trees, rocks, ridges, cover.

edit: gotta go, back later.

Interesting...I'd like to read the news story if it's available. I can't find it, but I'm not a master of google-fu.

Sounds like the sort of story that would have made headlines, but maybe I missed it.