Lloydminster RCMP

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

The statement:
General Population = wolfs in sheep's clothing
Sounds like the terrorists have already won the battle. Or the state is just using this as an excuse to militarize the police.

Would you feel safer, if you knew that all your neighbours had hand guns and were licensed to carry? Or would you feel safer if the only people that had firearms were the police and criminals?

Living in a small town where it takes the RCMP 10-20 min to respond to an emergency call, I know what my answer is.

Where are you going with this? Law abiding citizens legally allowed to carry or have in their possession is a good thing.
Terrorism will and have not nor never will win the battle...however they hide amongst the good.
State? Well the RCMP are perhaps issued better weapons to deal with possible threats.
Small town response sorry to hear the delay, I live in the woods on a acreage so I need to have a way to protect my family in conjunction with a 911 call. We all work together on this if and I hope never happens.

[sprbloggins]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

Sorry, one question that hasn't been asked...
According to the flavour of the article...
Do the RCMP need these items to police or subdue the general population???

Oh, I do agree that the members should be provided with the correct tools to do their job. As long as that job is to provide police services. Period.

Yes they do need these items to protect themselves when faced against a raging gunman (Mayerthorpe, Moncton). 9mm and shotgun slugs up against .308 is no match.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by propliner

Much worse dangers face those who log for our lumber, catch our fish, fly our planes, build our houses, find our oil, grow our food and deliver our goods. Sure, policing may not be such a pleasant job at times but to assume that that law enforcement is staring death in the eyes every night is a stretch. Arming them like we do our military troops is a leftist pacifier, and widens the divide in citizen-police relations (which may be at an all-time low already).

The politically-correct term "patrol carbine" is merely softening the fodder to sell the idea. Perhaps the privately held version should be referred to as the "sporting carbine", though it's not likely it ever will... it's too late for the concept to fly. The damage has already been done by the leftist lapdog media, as illustrated by the fine example in the above article. Vilification of gun owners continues ever-so-subtly.

Never said they stare death in the face every night just mentioned that when the sun goes down the scum come out, hard to deal with these potential hazards when you don't know what you are up against. If subjected to a threat they should be able to eliminate it before it harms civilians or them.
Like our people in the fisheries, logging, etc they get tools for the trade as should the RCMP.
Carbine, assault weapon, whatever they call this really does not matter. It is good that if they get into a situation they will not be under gunned and have the tool to execute the tasks same as our trades people.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by sprbloggins

Yes they do need these items to protect themselves when faced against a raging gunman (Mayerthorpe, Moncton). 9mm and shotgun slugs up against .308 is no match.

Mayerthorpe did not result from being undergunned. It resulted from putting inexperienced officers alone in a situation they never should have been.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by 6gunner

I say arm them to the teeth, but train them to use the equipment properly. I would rather them be able to protect themselves and the general public than be outgunned yet again.

Originally Posted by rasbok

Who cares what they are called... I feel alot better knowing that they are gonna be able to protect my family and friends if needed...

I don't think anyone of us would want to be in a gun fight with a revolver and a shotgun

Originally Posted by norwestalta

I think I would be able to protect my friends and family more adequatly if I have one. By the time the mounties get to my house the smoke would of already cleared and there would be little they could do but clean up the mess and hopefully catch the perps. I beleive they should have the right tools to protect themselves but we all should. As far as protecting joe public i can't see it making a difference unless they were to us them for shooting the rabid dogs that seem to plague our society.

As norwestalta has stated, the police hold NO DUTY to protect the population.

Like it or not, there it is. Best to clear that argument right from your mind as it is false.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

General population = wolfs in sheep's clothing a possible threat that lingers.

As for training they cover a wide variety to do the job however there is higher levels of training with the RCMP as with the CF that is specifically task(s) orientated.

That's the same argument that has allowed the militarization of our police.

Poor.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Never said they stare death in the face every night just mentioned that when the sun goes down the scum come out, hard to deal with these potential hazards when you don't know what you are up against. If subjected to a threat they should be able to eliminate it before it harms civilians or them.
Like our people in the fisheries, logging, etc they get tools for the trade as should the RCMP.
Carbine, assault weapon, whatever they call this really does not matter. It is good that if they get into a situation they will not be under gunned and have the tool to execute the tasks same as our trades people.

It is 100% about what they call it.

Civi+AR15=terrorist
Police+AR15=saviour

It's a dumb argument and people buy into it.

I need to protect myself but am not allowed the tools as they have. Silly.

You think they'll eventually let us keep our guns? Give it a rest. This is the whole reason they are arming them to the teeth WHILE pushing "it's too bad the gen pop has firearms".

[zero]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

Actual policing is going to get harder and harder. There's a culture of distrust forming between the public and the police. Getting worse now than its ever been IMO. For example, how many of you guys would willingly give a statement to police without consulting a lawyer, at the very least, first?

I wouldn't, lawyer first statement second, police are trained to not trust you, why trust them?

Police have been getting a bad rap because they have been getting caught more often abusing the power they think they have, social media, video recording , YouTube, viral content is making it more obvious just how bad it's been getting. Record the police and hold them accountable, they aren't above the law

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by zero

I wouldn't, lawyer first statement second, police are trained to not trust you, why trust them?

Police have been getting a bad rap because they have been getting caught more often abusing the power they think they have, social media, video recording , YouTube, viral content is making it more obvious just how bad it's been getting. Record the police and hold them accountable, they aren't above the law

Now just hold it there young feller, that there sounds like freedom talking. You don't think you're free now do you?

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by connexion123

It is 100% about what they call it.

Civi+AR15=terrorist
Police+AR15=saviour

It's a dumb argument and people buy into it.

I need to protect myself but am not allowed the tools as they have. Silly.

You think they'll eventually let us keep our guns? Give it a rest. This is the whole reason they are arming them to the teeth WHILE pushing "it's too bad the gen pop has firearms".

Or how you take it too a dumb argument that people buy into. Either way gentlemen, they will get their updated tools. I support it, so thumbs up.

[chasingtail]

Originally Posted by rasbok

Who cares what they are called... I feel alot better knowing that they are gonna be able to protect my family and friends if needed...

I don't think anyone of us would want to be in a gun fight with a revolver and a shotgun

Ha ha, you think the police will protect you, do you know anyone that has been protected by the police?

[Redfrog]

I like to see them equipped with both gear and training.

"Carbine, assault weapon, whatever they call this really does not matter."

I really does matter. Would you refer to someone on the street as just another guy or another potential rapist waiting for an opportunity?


With the media and the public and firearms issues, there is more than enough misinformation. We don't need to add to the confusion of the general public who may have no idea beyond TV about firearms.

[Flanny]

Now I know wikipedia is not really the best, most reliable source of information nowadays, but take a gander at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Canada_C7_rifle

"In 2011, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police adopted the C8 IUR (Integrated Upper Receiver) with ancillary components as their patrol carbine. These rifles have been modified to a semi automatic only mode of operation."

So it seems that these have been in use for quite some time, and they are just new to Lloyd.

I also recall reading about the CP/CN rail police carrying C7 rifles as part of their complement, but I cannot seem to find that information anymore.

Flanny

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Flanny

Now I know wikipedia is not really the best, most reliable source of information nowadays, but take a gander at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Canada_C7_rifle

"In 2011, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police adopted the C8 IUR (Integrated Upper Receiver) with ancillary components as their patrol carbine. These rifles have been modified to a semi automatic only mode of operation."

So it seems that these have been in use for quite some time, and they are just new to Lloyd.

I also recall reading about the CP/CN rail police carrying C7 rifles as part of their complement, but I cannot seem to find that information anymore.

Flanny

I'll ask next time I see our local guy.

[connexion123]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

I like to see them equipped with both gear and training.

"Carbine, assault weapon, whatever they call this really does not matter."

I really does matter. Would you refer to someone on the street as just another guy or another potential rapist waiting for an opportunity?


With the media and the public and firearms issues, there is more than enough misinformation. We don't need to add to the confusion of the general public who may have no idea beyond TV about firearms.

The point is to try and educate the general public in what actually is, not what tv tells them.

[C5Hines]

Originally Posted by propliner

Much worse dangers face those who log for our lumber, catch our fish, fly our planes, build our houses, find our oil, grow our food and deliver our goods. Sure, policing may not be such a pleasant job at times but to assume that that law enforcement is staring death in the eyes every night is a stretch. Arming them like we do our military troops is a leftist pacifier, and widens the divide in citizen-police relations (which may be at an all-time low already).

The politically-correct term "patrol carbine" is merely softening the fodder to sell the idea. Perhaps the privately held version should be referred to as the "sporting carbine", though it's not likely it ever will... it's too late for the concept to fly. The damage has already been done by the leftist lapdog media, as illustrated by the fine example in the above article. Vilification of gun owners continues ever-so-subtly.

they need the tools for the job required of them. if you read the article it says they are for certain situations. an RC pulling you over for speeding isn't going to be carrying an assault rifle up to your vehicle. There have been a lot of incidents in lloydminster in the last couple years of hostage situations or people locking themselves up somewhere armed and threatening people. I can think of at least 4 in the last two years.

also there is a difference between a coked out drug dealer with an assault rifle or even just a pistol and the dangers a fisherman, lumberjack, or pilot would see. you can prevent or recognize accidents (doesn't mean they don't happen), but you can't predict a sketchball with no regards for other people or their families.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by connexion123

The point is to try and educate the general public in what actually is, not what tv tells them.

They are educating the general public the c8 is a modified assult rifle .modified to semi auto only ..hence patrol carbine. In what way is the description incorrect??

[Got Juice?]

“ Unfortunately, there is availability of firearms to the general public, and it’s something that we need to make sure we’re taking seriously, and preparing for.”


NO, firearms are NOT available to the general public... they are only available to purchase if you have been vetted AND licensed!!! More RCMP Fear Mongering of the ends justifying the means


Fear mongering by the RCMP at its finest..... first we dole out OC spray... then Tasers, then after C68 Body Armour.

Granted these are tools and sometimes are needed, but, wow they are becoming more militarized every day.... and now they have the guns to prove it.

From maintaining RCMP Remingtons, and how abused and 'rode hard put up wet they get'.. I wonder what happens when the AR Gas tubes get plugged....

If they can't maintain a bolt actions... and now they have Gas tube semi's???

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Quinn

I find it hilarious that it's now a CARBINE, not an ASSAULT RIFLE.

Strange how the two words are interchanged when dealing with certain news topics....


The Lloydminster RCMP just got ASSAULT RIFLES.....

Assault Rifle is actually military term which refers to a rifle which has the ability to switch between semi-automatic and full auto fire.

Carbine is term use first by the military to describe a Rifle with a shorter barrel. I guess the Mounties thought that "Patrol Short Barrel Rifle" wasn't as catchy! Neither did Colt since they marketed as the "Patrol Carbine"

Assault Weapon is a term created by the Media and Anti to instill fear. Unfortunately it has become an accepted term and even used in the writing of many State laws. I believe it is used in media reports in an attempt simplify to the general public the type of firearm. If they referred to AR15 pattern rifles, XCR, or Tavor 21 very few would draw a mental picture. Say Assault Weapon and everyone thinks of there favorite action movie and destruction that can be caused by such a weapon.

In reports put out by the Police in relation to a crime, I have never heard the Police say a Ruger SR9 was used in the homicide. They will say a semi automatic pistol was used. So I doubt we will ever hear them refer to AR15`s or XCR`s or Tavor 21`s, they will refer to them as an Àssault Rifle because that is what the public understands.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by connexion123

Lol distraction. Red herring.

That's like saying abortion is only a woman's issue, and men have no say or input.

Arguments are void of gender, orientation, and yes, police or non.

One doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see the double standard of the R.C.M.P calling them patrol carbines for them and assault rifles for us. Not only that but their standard capacity magazines are apparently safer in their hands...

Lol. I would smoke the training I'm sure of it. My dad was an R.C.M.P member for 35 years and I am quite a physically and mentally capable.

Don't detract.

While they may want the body armour to be/feel safer, what a canard to push that THEY are safer while having an AR variation rifle and 30 round magazine but that it is unfortunate that the general public has firearms.

This is a brainwashing piece to condition the public that the police and military are the only ones who should have firearms. Pure hogwash.

To defend the militarization of our police forces is tyranny.

I could not have said it better myself.

Why not a Beretta CX4 Carbine? Common ammo with their current 9mm platform? And not a GAS TUBE rifle that is more maintenance.. of course 5.56 vs 9mm is certainly more lethal, but if they miss, where is that 5.56 going? .....

And the RCMP love toys, who wants to bet the next RCMP shootings take place with their new 'Patrol Carbines'... scary.

Patrol Carbine... WTF... on patrol, you are taking your AR for a walk? F^*$ FAIL! Not even joe citizen can just 'take their AR for a walk around their property......

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

As for dangerous etc as the sun goes down the animals come out, that is what they deal with as our heads are on the pillow all tucked in our beds.

And when the bad guy breaks into our house we are supposed to dial 911 instead of defending our family......

God knows, we don't want to end up like Ian Thompson......


Police swear fealty to CANADA, they are NOT here to protect her citizens. And more often than not, they perform the duty of dead animal pickup, and chalk drawings.......

I feel safer already.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by sprbloggins

Yes they do need these items to protect themselves when faced against a raging gunman (Mayerthorpe, Moncton). 9mm and shotgun slugs up against .308 is no match.

Police stations already have .308 Remington 700's.

Why do they 'need' an AR? AR's generally speaking are CQB firearms, not long range shooting platforms.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

They are educating the general public the c8 is a modified assult rifle .modified to semi auto only ..hence patrol carbine. In what way is the description incorrect??

It is incorrect because of the BS the RCMP feeds the media.

My AR is semi automatic. Modified? No, designed that way from the trigger group to the bolt carrier.

So why, if I had guns siezed is it listed as an assault rifle, where CLEARLY it is no different from this so-called '''PATROL CARBINE?'''

[C5Hines]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

NO, firearms are NOT available to the general public... they are only available to purchase if you have been vetted AND licensed!!! More RCMP Fear Mongering of the ends justifying the means

If you look in the right places you can find any gun you want anywhere you want. There is access more now than ever to fully automatic assault rifles or fully automatic pistols. To think that they are not out there in the hands of bad people is just ignorant. You don't have to have a P.A.L. to purchase a gun. If your a decent human being then you get a P.A.L. and get your guns legally. If your a P.O.S. then you just find someone selling ak's and get yourself one. Don't think they are not out there cause they are, more than you know.

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by C5Hines

If you look in the right places you can find any gun you want anywhere you want. There is access more now than ever to fully automatic assault rifles or fully automatic pistols. To think that they are not out there in the hands of bad people is just ignorant. You don't have to have a P.A.L. to purchase a gun. If your a decent human being then you get a P.A.L. and get your guns legally. If your a P.O.S. then you just find someone selling ak's and get yourself one. Don't think they are not out there cause they are, more than you know.

I grant you that there are exceptions. But the germane part of the article is how it is worded that lumps firearms owners in with genuine BAD GUYS!!!

[sprbloggins]

Originally Posted by Got Juice?

Police stations already have .308 Remington 700's.

Why do they 'need' an AR? AR's generally speaking are CQB firearms, not long range shooting platforms.

The carbine has proven its value to modern policing because this lightweight, short-barrelled rifle can fire many bullets, quickly and accurately, from a greater distance than pistols or shotguns. In an age when more and more bad guys are equipped with assault rifles and semi-automatic pistols, they give the good guys a fighting chance. This is essential safety equipment that they simply weren’t getting. It’s hard enough staying a step ahead of your adversary.

[brendan's dad]

Got Juice

Not sure what you do for a profession but I am sure that you appreciate using the best equipment possible to complete your job.

For too long the RCMP have "made due" with sub par equipment. Practically every other Police Force has a "Patrol Carbine" Colt is the most proven and widely accepted platform for performance and reliability, why wouldn't the Mounties want the best?

Don't you on your job?

[Got Juice?]

Originally Posted by sprbloggins

The carbine has proven its value to modern policing because this lightweight, short-barrelled rifle can fire many bullets, quickly and accurately, from a greater distance than pistols or shotguns. In an age when more and more bad guys are equipped with assault rifles and semi-automatic pistols, they give the good guys a fighting chance. This is essential safety equipment that they simply weren’t getting. It’s hard enough staying a step ahead of your adversary.

True. But a Beretta CX4 would be a more logical choice. 9mm common ammo.

Even if the RC's move to .40 the CX has that covered as well.

I do not enjoy seeing more militarization of the force, and this double standard they use to incite fear in the general population. It is deliberately misleading!

And using an AR is using an AR.

With the RCMP's general lack of maintenance to ALL their firearms, how long will it take an AR that has been 'rode hard and put up wet' to fail in the field?

When the gas tube is plugged from gasses, and condensation, etc etc, and only one round fires before the rifle fails to cycle? That's dangerous to the member right there.

If the members cannot even maintain a basic bolt action rifle (i've cleaned many of them BEFORE allowing them to fire them at our range, that's how dirty they were) how can we expect them to clean something a lot more complicated (to the avg member?)

[TripleTTT]

What scares me is: not that the RCMP have assault rifles...

It is their lack of training that seems to accompany confrontational situations.

If they don't approach a situation correctly lives will be lost.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

Got Juice

Not sure what you do for a profession but I am sure that you appreciate using the best equipment possible to complete your job.

For too long the RCMP have "made due" with sub par equipment. Practically every other Police Force has a "Patrol Carbine" Colt is the most proven and widely accepted platform for performance and reliability, why wouldn't the Mounties want the best?

Don't you on your job?

I don't know of many circumstances where it was warranted for them to have access to a c8 more than the rest of us. Most of the police shootings are ambush style where the only thing that would of made a difference is time.