Alberta Sales Tax ....

[roper1]

Whether AHS, teachers, bureaucracy, etc. there is an example that interests me. Klein privatized road maintenance; Volker Stevin, Carmacks et al. A couple buddies of mine worked AB Transportation before privatization, VS after. Ask them the difference in wages & pensions. Private sector kicked their butt, wages, lifestyles, & pensions. Apples to apples. Financial mag Money Sense IIRC says the people in Canada, not just AB that need to save nothing ( Zero ) for retirement are two teachers married to each other. Their retirement is funded with (inflation top-ups) by the tax-payer which is part of the reason Prentice needs more money!! I have teachers & even a principal in my family. Funny thing is, even with how bad we hear teachers have it, their children are seriously applying their senior high school studies toward a career teaching. I also feel roads are an essential service; ambulances, kids to school, adults to work, yet they are maintained by private contractors with much lower pension benefits. No sales tax- rein in spending!!!

[purgatory.sv]

Can’t contribute, have limited funds.



I have never seen a politician take a roll back; I have seen changes in compensation but never a decrease in base pay.

Until the leaders take the pill I will never believe a sales tax is the answer.

[newredneck]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but it will not be the government making the decision on a PST... it will be us. Alberta law states that any imposition of a PST must be preceded with a referendum -- we have sir Ralph to thank for that.

[79ford]

You know, we could probably vote liberal and get a more conservative party haha

The problem is the pcs have been in power soo long albertans dont know what political parties are... it is just a popularity contest to choose the next head of the pc party

[TripleTTT]

So far:

• yes there is a spending problem with the current regime.
• don't forget the prosperity cheques of 2005-2006
• 2005-2006 oil prices were between $45-$60 barrel
• don't forget: politicians were originally the land owners and corporate owners in the country that were socially expected to serve the people for the good fortunes of their business. This was done at no cost to the people. Maybe we should return to this socially accepted philanthropy from leaders of business and rid the feeding trough mentality of the current crop of feeders.
• This would definitely rid us of the current incompetence in Government and have the Province/Country run by professionals with a proven track record.

Just my .02... trying to stir up a dialogue...

[Iskra]

Originally Posted by avb3

But don't feel the rest need to think it is required AND then complain about getting a 2% raise. Is that attitude which has caused much of the expense side of government to go up to the stratosphere. If you're making great money that is not subject to being ratcheted back when times get tougher, don't expect to get a raise.

If people started thinking in terms of not what they want, but what they need, in other words food, shelter, transportation perhaps there wouldn't be an excess requirement of funds for government services.

If government employees start thinking in terms of not what they want, but what they need, in other words food, shelter, transportation perhaps there wouldn't be requirement for new taxes.

[KGB]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

So far:

• yes there is a spending problem with the current regime.
• don't forget the prosperity cheques of 2005-2006
• 2005-2006 oil prices were between $45-$60 barrel
• don't forget: politicians were originally the land owners and corporate owners in the country that were socially expected to serve the people for the good fortunes of their business. This was done at no cost to the people. Maybe we should return to this socially accepted philanthropy from leaders of business and rid the feeding trough mentality of the current crop of feeders.
• This would definitely rid us of the current incompetence in Government and have the Province/Country run by professionals with a proven track record.

Just my .02... trying to stir up a dialogue...

I agree with you here 100%.

[79ford]

Originally Posted by TripleTTT

So far:

• yes there is a spending problem with the current regime.
• don't forget the prosperity cheques of 2005-2006
• 2005-2006 oil prices were between $45-$60 barrel
• don't forget: politicians were originally the land owners and corporate owners in the country that were socially expected to serve the people for the good fortunes of their business. This was done at no cost to the people. Maybe we should return to this socially accepted philanthropy from leaders of business and rid the feeding trough mentality of the current crop of feeders.
• This would definitely rid us of the current incompetence in Government and have the Province/Country run by professionals with a proven track record.

Just my .02... trying to stir up a dialogue...

13$ nat gas made ralph bucks possible. High oil and gas prices (not so much gas in the last 6 years) have covered up lousy managment in alberta. The high prices for oil have also covered up lousy corporate management, the bureaucracy and managment at some oil and gas companies would make the government look pretty efficient at getting stuff done.

You want to see lack of efficiency watch oil companies at work, haha!! It is mind boggling how much money can be spent to get next to nothing done.

I guess i should say lots of money and plentifull jobs have covered up bad finacial decisions in the general populous too. I work with some people who havent been at the place more than over a year and they have already bought a new car and a 500k house..... it is right off the handle. Lots of people are smart but there is probably a much higher than national average of people up to their ears in credit and mortgages in alberta.

The government now looks like it wants to go the way of taxes and debt to make up the shortfall from corporate spending and job cuts.


The way the private sector works leaves more and more people without or barely keeping up so the government has to step further and further in to keep the marginalized people from falling through the cracks.

The united states is an excellent example.... rampant financial sector growth at the cost of society lead to a bust. In alberta rampant growth and no royalties(in comparision to every other jurisdiction in the world) has left the government with the tab for expansion and will leave the province with many un employed people to take care of during the down town.

[kennedy]

So many years of prosperity and high oil prices made us billions of dollars and this government never bothered saving any of it. Now, the scapegoat is high paid teachers, nurses and doctors. While our same premier and his chief of staff have outrages salaries of over 250K and not to mention our city councilors making 115k. how about our premier take a salary of 90K. feed kids, mortgages and at least one vehicle and see how he likes it. time for them to start serving the people of alberta and listen to the voters what they think. nobody should vote for those wildrose backstabbers. lets all go ndp, wildrose or liberal and give this current government the boot. one of the richest province and we cant save for a rainy day. i guess its easier to blame the doctors, teachers and nurses.

[TBD]

Originally Posted by kennedy

i guess its easier to blame the doctors, teachers and nurses.

here's the problem - sleaze ball politicians in this province grow the health - education - gov't service bureaucracy administrations so they can make their customary political patronage appts (pay offs) ....

.... in most cases these do nothing administrators are making more than front line staff

Albertans want to see more front line staff with the cuts going to redundant administrative positions so that the system can gain efficiency ....

make sense ?


TBD


PS ... also we are growing tired of employees within these industries (front line staff included) WHO expect standard (cost of living) increases, indexed pensions ect ect when the rest of Alberta's workers in other industries FALL BEHIND.

In other words - we're sick of the politicization unions are undergoing in these industries to demand more and more tax dollars to the benefit of their members and the detriment of workers in other industries.

.... and MOST of all we are SICK of politicos who are willing to SELL OUT Albertans and our TAX dollars so that they can garner votes from the members of these unions come election time. Thinking most recently as an example "Redford and the Teachers"



.

[purgatory.sv]

Agree.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

I'm as right wing as they come. But plz, pray tell who is holding this government accountable? Who will? <crickets>

The left?

[Redfrog]

So the economy is slowing down and the gov't gets a raise in the terms of a sales tax?

[Morbius131]

Originally Posted by Iskra

If government employees start thinking in terms of not what they want, but what they need, in other words food, shelter, transportation perhaps there wouldn't be requirement for new taxes.

So you are insinuating that government employees are the cause of all this issue and they should all take pay cuts to prevent new taxes. Clearly there are some misconceptions here!

Morb

[TBD]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

So the economy is slowing down and the gov't gets a raise in the terms of a sales tax?

they are not expected to have any contingency in place for situations where the price of oil falls.

... heaven forbid no one expected this, budgets were prepared on $100 oil

We'll see how well prentice does at selling this ^^ crock of chit

.... maybe he's a better salesman than he looks - we'll see

TBD

... do you think WildRose can rebound for the next election ?

who's this Anders guy, would luv to see danny lose her seat


.

[kennedy]

i have always been a conservative but i will not vote for them this time. i hope Albertans take a stand and vote wildrose or something else. turf all of these fat self entitled politicians. im not sure who this Anders guy is or any of the ones who stayed but the fact is they stayed. As of now, we are going down hill with the conservatives and as i see it we have nothing to lose in voting wildrose. Maybe it will be good maybe it won't but least it will be a wake up call for the next election. Thousands of people have already lost their jobs and this scums plan is lets bring a sales tax so that we can burden those you lost their jobs even more. That's his plan? lets look at peoples salaries because its not sustainable. is his salary sustainable? lets not fool ourselves just the price of his meals when he was in Houston would have fed many in need here in Alberta. im sure he didn't eat at McDonalds even though we paid for it.

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Iskra

If government employees start thinking in terms of not what they want, but what they need, in other words food, shelter, transportation perhaps there wouldn't be requirement for new taxes.

The sad part is you will always point at services, not the structure between the employee and employer.

We are responsible for what has happened, the disconnect is accountability. And we vote, but don’t hold the elected official responsible. If you question be sure you believe, because it will be difficult to convert.

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by newredneck

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but it will not be the government making the decision on a PST... it will be us. Alberta law states that any imposition of a PST must be preceded with a referendum -- we have sir Ralph to thank for that.

Yup. Here's the law.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/A36.pdf

[FishingMOM]

Originally Posted by the.tru.albertan

Yup. Here's the law.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/Acts/A36.pdf

Best news I've ever heard.

[ATF]

I thought I read somewhere that they found a loophole though where they can bypass the referendum? I can't remember where I read it but the subject came up and the government didn't seem concerned as though they had a weasel clause somewhere else so they could sneak it through. I hope I'm wrong.

[260 Rem]

I really appreciate the expert economics in the "it's the teachers fault" threads and have finally realized that what Alberta really needs is a "volunteer" teaching force. Really, they work so few hours, they could still do pretty well working at MacDonalds. No fat pensions for real contributing workers to support. There probably should be a law on the books to keep them from marrying, otherwise they will may find a way to access the public teat and buy up all the 4 X 4's and RV's which would put upward pressure on the the price of those items ...
There, and teachers taking on the MacDonalds jobs would also remedy the issue of needing Temp Foriegn Workers.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I really appreciate the expert economics in the "it's the teachers fault" threads and have finally realized that what Alberta really needs is a "volunteer" teaching force. Really, they work so few hours, they could still do pretty well working at MacDonalds. No fat pensions for real contributing workers to support. There probably should be a law on the books to keep them from marrying, otherwise they will may find a way to access the public teat and buy up all the 4 X 4's and RV's which would put upward pressure on the the price of those items ...
There, and teachers taking on the MacDonalds jobs would also remedy the issue of needing Temp Foriegn Workers.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by FishingMOM

Best news I've ever heard.

There was also a "law" that they couldn't run a deficit, didn't take them long to rescind that one.........

[JamesB]

Originally Posted by ATF

I thought I read somewhere that they found a loophole though where they can bypass the referendum? I can't remember where I read it but the subject came up and the government didn't seem concerned as though they had a weasel clause somewhere else so they could sneak it through. I hope I'm wrong.

No need for loop holes. The government has a majority and can write or rewrite any laws it sees fit.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I really appreciate the expert economics in the "it's the teachers fault" threads and have finally realized that what Alberta really needs is a "volunteer" teaching force.

The part if this I find frustrating is the general lack of knowledge on the part of those being so critical. "Everybody Knows" that the teachers union got a great deal out if Redford so she could steal the election from the WR. This is what you get when you only read headlines and listen to talk radio. As morbius pointed out MANY times there is no "great" deal. Here's the actual details:

Wages frozen for 3 years.
2% raise and 1% bonus in year 4.
Increased employee contributions to fix underfunded pension.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle9819543/

And all this at a time when the Consumer Prive Index is 120%+ every year?

[great white whaler]

i say bring in the sales tax ,,start it of around 16 %,,also the carbon tax,,ligalize pot ,,,and up the property tax's,,,,,,,o and make car pooling legal

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by midgetwaiter

The part if this I find frustrating is the general lack of knowledge on the part of those being so critical.

For the most part, the "economic punditry" that makes financial theory so brutally simple with "bang on" assessments capable of reducing complex, inter-related issues to a single root cause ... Has a lot more to do with expert "punditry" than expertise in economics. For some, dragging others down has always been easier than working to get to the top. I think it is called the "failure is always somebody else's fault" theory.
Provincial Sales Tax vs resource royalty dependency ... at some point, the bills for things we have need to be paid.

[KGB]

There is another factor to consider with provincial tax. Look what's happening in Ontario: every business offer you discount for paying cash. What does it mean? You are right, cash deal no receipt under the table. Government won't even see this tax money! I'm not promoting this by any means so please don't start shewing up my ass! But when dealing with a small business like car mechanics, service industries like plumbers or appliance repair etc - all this gonna be CASH. The government will actually end up loosing on this deal....

[dodger]

Originally Posted by hal53

There was also a "law" that they couldn't run a deficit, didn't take them long to rescind that one.........

Good post Hal! This is a very key factor as to why we are in this mess.

So I spend 40 years working my butt off for a better quality of life. Worked 60-70 hour weeks for most of my working life. I pay the max amount of taxes and there's a good chunk of the population that feel I should pay more in taxes? Sounds like bull crap to me.

Dodger.

[the.tru.albertan]

Originally Posted by hal53

There was also a "law" that they couldn't run a deficit, didn't take them long to rescind that one.........

Exactly. They'll find a way. Albertans need to know about this law though and cause major uproar when it is bypassed.