Alberta Sales Tax ....

[rottie]

Originally Posted by Iron Brew

Now on that I can't speak to. The people i know working fot the system are front line workers. I'm sure there are efficiencies to be gained there, but things have been changing too rapidly and too often for a proper evaluation.

I am a front line worker as well Iron. Its just real frustrating to see how our tax dollars are spent. Everybody in the system, managment and front line staff need to held accountable. Our managment numbers have gone up since becoming AHS, it would be nice to have it explained why.
If everybody in the system looks at ways to stream line processes / work allotment money can be saved

When no one is held accountable no really looks too hard to change

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Wild&Free

about as much sense as taking as much as you can out of a system with returning as little as possible.

WHAT are they taking out of the system that everyone else isn't? If I'm making $120,000/yr, what "extra" am I taking out of the system over someone making $50,000?? What system are you talking about anyway?

[Dr. Phil A]

Take away provincial income tax....
PST that catches all the extras that come to the province for work. It is an equalizing tax.

Not a fan at all of a PST but we do have lots of out of province workers that use our infastructure but take their money home.

Cut the spending, cap the salaries, and live within your means. This is what average Albertans are going to have to do. Sales tax will only send us into a recession.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Dr. Phil A

Take away provincial income tax....
PST that catches all the extras that come to the province for work. It is an equalizing tax.

Not a fan at all of a PST but we do have lots of out of province workers that use our infastructure but take their money home.

Cut the spending, cap the salaries, and live within your means. This is what average Albertans are going to have to do. Sales tax will only send us into a recession.

I would be 100% behind a PST if it was an equalizing tax brought in AFTER getting rid of the provincial income tax. And I mean a truly equal or lesser tax, not like the GST which turned out to be a huge windfall.

[lmtada]

TFW for government. Feds, Prov., Municipal. Then a new election 4 yrs later.

[Jimboy]

And the Torys pull the wool over our eyes again , telling us all their broke , wait till l get me a Kleenex , poor Torys , sending all our money over to foreign investments for them selves to collect the interest on , then tell us they have to cut back , what a crock .
Theres all kinds of money in Govt , just the Alberta lottery funds alone would boggle your mind , and they keep that too , its all a big excuse not to pay out what they should do in Transfer payment money.
May have to implement a sales tax HE SAYS , yea , WE ALREADY HAVE A FED SALES TAX , and l would question if its even legal , taxation without representation.
Do our province a favour and vote NDP next election Racheal Notley , and lets throw thease long time crooks to the pigs.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Jimboy

And the Torys pull the wool over our eyes again , telling us all their broke , wait till l get me a Kleenex , poor Torys , sending all our money over to foreign investments for them selves to collect the interest on , then tell us they have to cut back , what a crock .
Theres all kinds of money in Govt , just the Alberta lottery funds alone would boggle your mind , and they keep that too , its all a big excuse not to pay out what they should do in infrastructure money.
May have to implement a sales tax HE SAYS , yea , WE ALREADY HAVE A FED SALES TAX , and l would question if its even legal , taxation without representation.
Do our province a favour and vote NDP next election Racheal Notley , and lets throw thease long time crooks to the pigs.

I tihnk the NDP motto is "Lower taxes!" isn't it?

[Jimboy]

Originally Posted by rugatika

I tihnk the NDP motto is "Lower taxes!" isn't it?

They just want everyone to pay a fair tax , right now the Torys are in bed with big coorperations that pay less then a reg joe six pack , with all their loopholes and tax rightoff schemes , some pay no taxes at all , that's why they like the Torys , but with an NDP Govt , that would change , they would have to pay a set tax.

[Jack Hardin]

The bottom line is that if they implement a 5% PST, it means that you just took a 5% pay cut.

[From The Hip]

Originally Posted by MacLeod

... Words like that ^ could get you 'tarred & feathered', real fast around here!!!

All kidding aside ... over the last 50+ years this province has been through at least three major 'Busts', and every time it happens this dirty subject comes up. Here we are in 2015 and we still don't have a sales tax, thank Gawd!

Any Alberta politician who would openly, seriously consider implementing a sales tax, might just as well pull out a knife and slit his/her own political throat.


Next question

Mac

There was a big buzz in the media today about this.In fact most of the questions Prentice faced were if he was in favour of a sales tax.He said he was not and he thinks the majority of Albertans are opposed to a sales tax but he want to hear from the Albertans who approove of a sales tax.Sounds like a lot of double talk BS to me.If we are to have a sales tax in Alberta there should be a referendum on it.No need for anything like an election type of vote.Just mail out a 1 page form with no verbal garbage on it just one question in large letters DO YOU WANT A SALES TAX with a YES box and a NO box.Tick off the box you want and send it back to the government.Gauranteed the overwhelming response is NO.

As other have said in this thread I have said it countless times...Alberta does not have a funding problem it has a spending problem.The Bureaucracy is off the charts with the ammount of overpaid/under worked and over priviledged government employees.Currently there are 38,000 of them and of those 9,800 make over 100K a year in base salary never mind bonus's and perks.How many of them make north of $200,000?or $500,000? or $1,000,000?

Makes me remember that former head of AHS who got drubbed by the media for ducking a press scrum with the excuse "I am eating my cookie"...he was making $850,000 a year and even got a nice severance package when he got fired beacuse of the media heat he brought down on the government.Then there were the high paid staff of Redford

The Provincial government has to clean it's own house before it can even think of enslaving Albertans to a sales tax.We need to so massive cuts the the Bureaucracy and then also decent wage roll backs to the ones left over and if the ones left over want to whine about a pay cut the fire them as well.

We dont need a sales tax...we need fiscally responsible government

FTH

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by roper1

No SALES TAX ever!!! We have a spending problem, not a revenue problem. The PC's just hid a bunch of the Sunshine program pointing out government employees making 100k plus.

X10000! Stop the damn wastage. Most juridistictions would be thrilled to have the income per capita Alberta enjoys. Last thing We need is another tax! The average Albertan already works til June til they start making money! We work half the year for free on a temporary tax that was started to find the war. Give the Alberta government money and I guarantee you they will waste it! Alberta government employees enjoy the highest wage in their industries, start by managing that! I'm gonna burst a flipping vessel here soon.

[ganderblaster]

Originally Posted by rugatika

WHAT are they taking out of the system that everyone else isn't? If I'm making $120,000/yr, what "extra" am I taking out of the system over someone making $50,000?? What system are you talking about anyway?

Excellent post!! All I ask is for there to BE A SYSTEM!!! Oh that Ralph could rise from the dead and be 40 again!

[From The Hip]

Originally Posted by ganderblaster

Excellent post!! All I ask is for there to BE A SYSTEM!!! Oh that Ralph could rise from the dead and be 40 again!

Damn right...bring back Zombie Ralph..he might bite an intern or two but he would take an axe to the Bureaucracy real fast.

FTH

[roper1]

So Prentice is in Toronto today on his way to Texas, you know direct flight & all(on our dime) & says he will listen to Albertans if they want a sales tax. I would guess provincial employees of which there is a lot in our ever-bloating gov't would vote yes to such a tax. Might save a few of their jobs. Then in the next breath he says we have to have meaningful respectful discussion with provincial employees about sustainability. The absolute gall that he has just now realized he needs to do something because the current situation is a wreck. Then he won't rule out more taxpayer millions on an unnecessary snap election!!!! Wow & I have to keep it clean my teeth are grinding.

[Northcountry]

I get a kick out of the folks that bash the public servants when times are tough. The same folks will be the first ones complaining that there aren't enough fish and wildlife officers in the province. You talk about a bloated civil service but in ERSD alone we currently have over 150 vacancies.

[From The Hip]

Originally Posted by roper1

So Prentice is in Toronto today on his way to Texas, you know direct flight & all(on our dime) & says he will listen to Albertans if they want a sales tax. I would guess provincial employees of which there is a lot in our ever-bloating gov't would vote yes to such a tax. Might save a few of their jobs. Then in the next breath he says we have to have meaningful respectful discussion with provincial employees about sustainability. The absolute gall that he has just now realized he needs to do something because the current situation is a wreck. Then he won't rule out more taxpayer millions on an unnecessary snap election!!!! Wow & I have to keep it clean my teeth are grinding.

Yeah but Prentice would not drop the Writ and call a snap election if his government imposed a sales tax before said election....that is like sucking on the business end of a shotgun with your toe on the trigger whilst you are sucking on the barrel.

If the government wants to impose and subjugate Albertans with a sales tax they had best get their house cleaned first...spending cuts/wage roll backs/infrastucture spending cuts well before hard working Albertans get subjugated to a sales tax.

Make the cuts across the board....make the wage roll backs across the board


TRIM THE FAT is what Prentice should be thinking and doing....and not MILK THE TAXPAYERS.

FTH

[DiabeticKripple]

i think its pretty obvious that the media is fuelling this fire. a week ago he said no to a sales tax and the media kept pushing and pushing and now he is gonna talk to albertans, who will say no, and all is fine and dandy

[From The Hip]

Originally Posted by Northcountry

I get a kick out of the folks that bash the public servants when times are tough. The same folks will be the first ones complaining that there aren't enough fish and wildlife officers in the province. You talk about a bloated civil service but in ERSD alone we currently have over 150 vacancies.

Yeah but there are no "vacancies" in the health care system for pencil pushing bean counters who realistically do jack squat but still make more than 100K a year....no "vacancies" because there is no room for any more pigs at the trough.....6 more years of the boom and the department you work in would be the same.....just another opportunity for the government to spend taxpayer money like drunken sailors on shore leave in Bankok after 6 months at sea.

FTH

[roper1]

Originally Posted by Northcountry

I get a kick out of the folks that bash the public servants when times are tough. The same folks will be the first ones complaining that there aren't enough fish and wildlife officers in the province. You talk about a bloated civil service but in ERSD alone we currently have over 150 vacancies.

So would they fill all 150 vacancies when?? The 150 vacancies are based on what formula?? I feel for you. Must really tick you off when Prentice changed the PC strategy to not reveal Sunshine remuneration! FTR I have felt public works wages & especially pensions have been unsustainable for years, just ask half the US cities & states that are broke, not just now when the shat's hitting the fan. Also FTR, I will weather this much better than most but it still rips me the pols do this to my province & my kid's future, all of whom are also well-employed!!

[lilsundance]

Originally Posted by Northcountry

I get a kick out of the folks that bash the public servants when times are tough. The same folks will be the first ones complaining that there aren't enough fish and wildlife officers in the province. You talk about a bloated civil service but in ERSD alone we currently have over 150 vacancies.

I too get a kick out of the slamming of public workers as well. People cry that they make to much, and then cry because they have to wait for service because they only had 3 people to serve 50 people in a line up. And heaven help them if they get up and take a much needed coffee or lunch break. I can honestly say that if some of these whiners were doing the job they would be severely underpaid and over worked and un appreciated. The only ones who, imho, make to much are those in directive positions. The average public servant works hard for his/her money in depts. that are understaffed.

[260 Rem]

Originally Posted by Jack Hardin

The bottom line is that if they implement a 5% PST, it means that you just took a 5% pay cut.

Hey, I remember that 5% pay cut when it was imposed on teachers, sure enough, it brought the budget back into the black that year...NOT. It seems the general public may be less amenable to a 5% cut .. but if it is going to happen, it should apply to everybody. I wonder how much squealing there will be if the PCs say they need to whack teachers again?

[79ford]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

I too get a kick out of the slamming of public workers as well. People cry that they make to much, and then cry because they have to wait for service because they only had 3 people to serve 50 people in a line up. And heaven help them if they get up and take a much needed coffee or lunch break. I can honestly say that if some of these whiners were doing the job they would be severely underpaid and over worked and un appreciated. The only ones who, imho, make to much are those in directive positions. The average public servant works hard for his/her money in depts. that are understaffed.

I dont think most people get it when it comes to civil service, the pensions and benefits are there because you are usually taking a pay cut compared to the private version of said job.

The comparable jobs for my field in civil service involve probably a 25% pay cut. Same with many other jobs and you get the entire section of the public you deal with/encounter to complain about every little thing you do.

I used to build roads for the government, you get complaints the road is too narrow and needs to be fixed, you widen the road and everyone complains about construction and noise, you put fresh gravel on the road (which is rather dusty) before commissioning the road and people cry about the dust...... people will drive faster on the road and people will complain about that.... people will complain about the washboards from driving 120kmhr down the road on fresh gravel..... then people will complain you should have paved it to avoid the dust, if you pave it people will complain about the speed people drive and the potholes.... if you get too many potholes and dont repave it people will complain about the pavement,... then people will complain about the paving or how it should be widened.

Thats just the public cycle of moaning for a gravel road, could only imagine hospitals etc teachers.... imagine teaching 25 kids with parents that think they are all special?lol

[roper1]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

I too get a kick out of the slamming of public workers as well. People cry that they make to much, and then cry because they have to wait for service because they only had 3 people to serve 50 people in a line up. And heaven help them if they get up and take a much needed coffee or lunch break. I can honestly say that if some of these whiners were doing the job they would be severely underpaid and over worked and un appreciated. The only ones who, imho, make to much are those in directive positions. The average public servant works hard for his/her money in depts. that are understaffed.

So how much do you think a teacher should be paid?? The problems with health-care in Ab would be solved with more money?? Back to my question, who says the dep't is understaffed? Whose formula? There is no reward in a union for saying we are over-staffed, need to cut some people. I had a minor medical procedure done, timely & professional. Last line-up I was in was passport, federal but about an hour sitting on a chair, not onerous. If you think there does not need to be an overhaul in provincial finances & that allocation, I have a bridge I would sell to the right guy for the right price

[Northcountry]

Originally Posted by roper1

So would they fill all 150 vacancies when?? The 150 vacancies are based on what formula?? I feel for you. Must really tick you off when Prentice changed the PC strategy to not reveal Sunshine remuneration! FTR I have felt public works wages & especially pensions have been unsustainable for years, just ask half the US cities & states that are broke, not just now when the shat's hitting the fan. Also FTR, I will weather this much better than most but it still rips me the pols do this to my province & my kid's future, all of whom are also well-employed!!

Hey, don't feel for me! I'll just continue to collect my big fat pension. Just maybe if I work for the government for another 50 years I might make the sunshine list too!

[lilsundance]

Well roper I don't know how much a teacher makes now, but are they short staffed. I think so because class sizes are not getting smaller. I agree that an over haul must be done, but why do it on the backs of the average public servant because you think they are over paid. By the same token they can say people in the oil and gas industry make way to much money. Simple fact is unless you walk a mile in there shoes you actually have no idea if they are underpaid for the job they do. Start cuts at the gov't level by getting rid of a bunch of deputy ministers and there staff. Why does a minister need two deputies, with assistants, secretaries etc. start at the top and work your way down. A pyramid is supported from the bottom up, chip away at the bottom and the top crumbles.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

Well roper I don't know how much a teacher makes now, but are they short staffed. I think so because class sizes are not getting smaller. I agree that an over haul must be done, but why do it on the backs of the average public servant because you think they are over paid. By the same token they can say people in the oil and gas industry make way to much money. Simple fact is unless you walk a mile in there shoes you actually have no idea if they are underpaid for the job they do. Start cuts at the gov't level by getting rid of a bunch of deputy ministers and there staff. Why does a minister need two deputies, with assistants, secretaries etc. start at the top and work your way down. A pyramid is supported from the bottom up, chip away at the bottom and the top crumbles.

i dont know if the issue with large class sizes is due to lack of schools, or lack of teachers.

could be a surplus of teachers, but not enough classrooms

[lilsundance]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

i dont know if the issue with large class sizes is due to lack of schools, or lack of teachers.

could be a surplus of teachers, but not enough classrooms

in major centers its a lack of schools. Lots of teachers cant find a job because of that. And being a substitute you only get paid when you actually work, as it should be. Could some of these teacher move to rural centers where they could find jobs. Ya some could, but lots can't because their spouses jobs are in the major centers. Things that the Gov't has to quit spending money on is frivolous things like studies to see if the public wants chrome balls or copper in front of a gov't building.
now back on topic for me and then I am done with posting in here. I will not vote for any gov't that puts a provincial tax in place.

[DiabeticKripple]

i like prentice but if he puts in a PST, i will be right ****ed

[Kim473]

When oil goes back up, who will win ? Gov has extra pst revenue, return of revenue from oil. Will the people get anything back? No. Oil will start to rebound in June, just wait and see. Once a PST has been introduced, it will never be removed. Just like the GST.

[Skybuster]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

i dont know if the issue with large class sizes is due to lack of schools, or lack of teachers.

could be a surplus of teachers, but not enough classrooms

From my small circle of knowledge there is definately a shortage of classroom space. I am aware of a former closet now being used as a classroom. Of the cafeteria being used as a classroom. Space is definately an issue. Is there a shortage of teachers. Yes I believe so, but by that I mean the number of teachers a schools budget can support. I believe there are lots of trained personnel willing to teach, but not enough have been hired to do the job optimally. Before that can be addressed however, there needs to be an infrastructure upgrade. All of this costs a ton of money, and we are now looking at cuts?

The other question is are teachers paid too much? I don't think so. I think they are paid well, but not too much. I would like to see some of the poor teachers dealt with more effectively.

And maybe its different in the city but I have some friends in the Public Health system and there is a shortage of people to do the work both on the frontline and in management. The restructuring the AHS has implemented multiple times is probably to blame but I know nurses that are pushed beyond acceptable limits to provide coverage, overtime way past what I would find acceptable. I have a buddy that has been doing two management positions for over a year now, with no real change to his salary. Maybe I see the few examples that are contrary to the norm, but I don't think so.