Justin Trudeau to remove senators from Liberal caucus

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by hal53

Nice window dressing, but in reality it only means 32 Liberal senators won't be attending weekly caucus meetings.......

I can't believe that I am actually about to defend Justin Trudaeu's actions. . . sigh; here we go.

I agree with your post and others saying you can't change a leopards spots. I agree 100% just because they are no longer in the caucus that they aren't liberals. However, this is the first step to a recovery. If in the future the senate is actually filled by individuals not belonging to a caucus it could evolve the senate.

Now me being conservative for example, say that I am selected. They may very well know that I am conservative, but do I agree with every stance the conservatives have? No, no I do not. Not belongfing to the party means that they have no form of retribution if I don't tow the party line. This will in fact allow democracy instead of dictatorship to maybe bubble to the surface again.

I kinda feel dirty now, I'm going to have a shower and burn my clothes. I may even weep a little.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Sounds like a better cost saving method than closing veterans affairs offices....

The Senators aren't losing their jobs, they'll just be called Independent Senators and not Liberal Senators.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

The Senators aren't losing their jobs, they'll just be called Independent Senators and not Liberal Senators.

Yes I know that Dave, but they don't have to be in Ottawa for caucus meetings...thus no travel and other expenses. Taking 32 people out saves a lot of expenses eh?

[Wild&Free]

Originally Posted by whammy

I think the real question that should be raised by this is:

Why has Harper done NOTHING to work towards reforming the Senate? Pretty shameful to get beat to the punch by your #1 political opponent on one of your key campaigning items.

The answer to your question is found in the next quote.

Originally Posted by Dr. Phil A

I agree that the Senate should be elected with terms.
I don't agree with getting rid of the senate. They are there to throw the brakes on questionable laws and what not.

Can you imagine where we would be if the Cretien liberals had not had the senate to slow them down? You would have exactly what we have here in Alberta right now. A majority who think they have the right to rule as they see fit and do not have to answer to anyone. Draconian bills that keep eroding our rights and priveleges because they can pass this stuff behind closed doors with zero opposition. "Democratic dictatorship"

Originally Posted by pseelk

He also said he believes in gun control.Point bieng,he is a Liberal,Therefore he lies.

Everyone lies.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I can't believe that I am actually about to defend Justin Trudaeu's actions. . . sigh; here we go.

I agree with your post and others saying you can't change a leopards spots. I agree 100% just because they are no longer in the caucus that they aren't liberals. However, this is the first step to a recovery. If in the future the senate is actually filled by individuals not belonging to a caucus it could evolve the senate.

Now me being conservative for example, say that I am selected. They may very well know that I am conservative, but do I agree with every stance the conservatives have? No, no I do not. Not belongfing to the party means that they have no form of retribution if I don't tow the party line. This will in fact allow democracy instead of dictatorship to maybe bubble to the surface again.




I kinda feel dirty now, I'm going to have a shower and burn my clothes. I may even weep a little.

Harper, a conservative, has a dictatorship....sounds to me like your not supporting that??

[nof60]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

If it`s not population based then why not give the territories 4 each as well?

Cause you could not find 4 people worth sending

[nof60]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I can't believe that I am actually about to defend Justin Trudaeu's actions. . . sigh; here we go.

I agree with your post and others saying you can't change a leopards spots. I agree 100% just because they are no longer in the caucus that they aren't liberals. However, this is the first step to a recovery. If in the future the senate is actually filled by individuals not belonging to a caucus it could evolve the senate.

Now me being conservative for example, say that I am selected. They may very well know that I am conservative, but do I agree with every stance the conservatives have? No, no I do not. Not belongfing to the party means that they have no form of retribution if I don't tow the party line. This will in fact allow democracy instead of dictatorship to maybe bubble to the surface again.


I kinda feel dirty now, I'm going to have a shower and burn my clothes. I may even weep a little.

Trouble is without party campaign coffers running and winning really is only viable if you are very wealthy. With a party system the party foots the bill for a lot and does the necesary fundraising. Without the party system we could change the senate name to house of lords.

I think the way to eliminate problems is to limit ALL politicians to a maximum of 2 terms especially senators

And to all those bandwagon jumpers...there is a lot more to gun control than the registry. With the stroke of a pen this little fairy could make your shotgun or gopher plinker or hunting rifle illegle to own and valueless. Dont think it cant happen. Google Australia Gun Laws if you dont believe me. And never forget he is a liberal and controlled by old school liberals.

[Steve07]

It just makes me ask myself how bad is the next scandal coming up that involves a formerly Liberal senator? Something is in the works. Like the line from the movie, don't get caught with a dead girl or a live boy...

If this move is enough to convince anyone to jump on-side with Mr. Trudeau, they were already looking for a reason. It is not, in and of itself, a particularly big deal. If the Senate needs to be abolished for corruption, so does Parliament, the entire political bureaucracy, and most of the upper tiers of business in this country.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by nof60

Trouble is without party campaign coffers running and winning really is only viable if you are very wealthy. With a party system the party foots the bill for a lot and does the necesary fundraising. Without the party system we could change the senate name to house of lords.

I think the way to eliminate problems is to limit ALL politicians to a maximum of 2 terms especially senators

And to all those bandwagon jumpers...there is a lot more to gun control than the registry. With the stroke of a pen this little fairy could make your shotgun or gopher plinker or hunting rifle illegle to own and valueless. Dont think it cant happen. Google Australia Gun Laws if you dont believe me. And never forget he is a liberal and controlled by old school liberals.

It may happen some day....a long way down the road. Don't forget under our current system the senate has to approve anything like that too and all the more reason that it needs reforming. Don't think for a minute that ANY government wouldn't ban guns if it suited their purposes.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Steve07

It just makes me ask myself how bad is the next scandal coming up that involves a formerly Liberal senator? Something is in the works. Like the line from the movie, don't get caught with a dead girl or a live boy...

If this move is enough to convince anyone to jump on-side with Mr. Trudeau, they were already looking for a reason. It is not, in and of itself, a particularly big deal. If the Senate needs to be abolished for corruption, so does Parliament, the entire political bureaucracy, and most of the upper tiers of business in this country.

The latest scandal was Chuck Strahl....which party was he affiliated with again?

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by nof60

Trouble is without party campaign coffers running and winning really is only viable if you are very wealthy. With a party system the party foots the bill for a lot and does the necesary fundraising. Without the party system we could change the senate name to house of lords.

You do understand that Senators do not run for election, right? There is no "winning". They don't need party coffers.

[Steve07]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

The latest scandal was Chuck Strahl....which party was he affiliated with again?

You're missing the point. I am predicting it as a pre-emptive move because he knows something is coming with one of his guys, and is smart enough to tackle it before it blows up, unlike so many before him.

It still means absolutely nothing. He's as much a part of the system as Harper and every other guy and gal down there.

Side effect of virtually no accountability and no consequences in government. If us "normals" did a tenth of what they do day to day, we'd be in prison.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Steve07

You're missing the point. I am predicting it as a pre-emptive move because he knows something is coming with one of his guys, and is smart enough to tackle it before it blows up, unlike so many before him.

It still means absolutely nothing. He's as much a part of the system as Harper and every other guy and gal down there.

Side effect of virtually no accountability and no consequences in government. If us "normals" did a tenth of what they do day to day, we'd be in prison.

I agree they get away with murder.....although I believe Justin is showing his integrity by this bold move.....

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I agree they get away with murder.....although I believe Justin is showing his integrity by this bold move.....

Way too early to be saying that.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Steve07

It just makes me ask myself how bad is the next scandal coming up that involves a formerly Liberal senator? Something is in the works. Like the line from the movie, don't get caught with a dead girl or a live boy...

If this move is enough to convince anyone to jump on-side with Mr. Trudeau, they were already looking for a reason. It is not, in and of itself, a particularly big deal. If the Senate needs to be abolished for corruption, so does Parliament, the entire political bureaucracy, and most of the upper tiers of business in this country.

Makes me wonder if JT is smarter than folks give him credit for.

Sure...he might be avoiding a pending scandal that is already known to him or...he might just be thinking ahead far enough to be avoiding the eventual scandal that is bound to pop up some day.

Either way it is a pre-emptive move that steals Harpers thunder while at the same time forcing him to do what he has been promising but resisting.

Like him or not his old man was cagey and my thought is that some of it rubbed off on the kid.
I suspect he just called Harpers bluff and now we'll all get to see whether the Federal Conservatives blink and fold, stay or raise.

Pretty smart regardless of the reasoning and excellent tactical thinking.

Course it changes nothing for me... I'm voting independant regardless of the promises or what is thrown out to distract us.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

If it`s not population based then why not give the territories 4 each as well?

Thanx Oko

[Chuck_Wagon]

The NDP proposed this same thing last October. They wanted senators removed from the Lib and CPC caucuses. The Liberals called it "impossible and unconstitutional". Suddenly today it's both possible & constitutional.

Bieber Trudeau constantly says "consultation" "consultation" when asked for an answer to a problem, but seems to have caught everyone in his caucus off guard when he made this decision without them and without "consulting" the people affected.
Odd thing for him to do, I assume with the soon to be released AG report on Senators spending that Liberal Senators have some huge skeletons about to be exposed.

This is a poorly thought out stunt, let’s get real here, just how independent do you think they will be, they are all still dedicated Liberals and party members.

Plus by the rules, independent Senators cannot sit on any Senate committees, guess they will all have to step down from any committee’s they are on if they are going to be honest about being independents.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by nof60

Cause you could not find 4 people worth sending

Ouch.....you should change your handle or the circles you're travelling in

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Chuck_Wagon

The NDP proposed this same thing last October. They wanted senators removed from the Lib and CPC caucuses. The Liberals called it "impossible and unconstitutional". Suddenly today it's both possible & constitutional.

Bieber Trudeau constantly says "consultation" "consultation" when asked for an answer to a problem, but seems to have caught everyone in his caucus off guard when he made this decision without them and without "consulting" the people affected.
Odd thing for him to do, I assume with the soon to be released AG report on Senators spending that Liberal Senators have some huge skeletons about to be exposed.

This is a poorly thought out stunt, let’s get real here, just how independent do you think they will be, they are all still dedicated Liberals and party members.

Plus by the rules, independent Senators cannot sit on any Senate committees, guess they will all have to step down from any committee’s they are on if they are going to be honest about being independents.

Always nice to see someone chime in with an unbiased opinion...

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Chuck_Wagon

The NDP proposed this same thing last October. They wanted senators removed from the Lib and CPC caucuses. The Liberals called it "impossible and unconstitutional". Suddenly today it's both possible & constitutional.

I never heard of that, the NDP's position is to abolish the Senate.

Would you have a link to the story?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by whammy

Always nice to see someone chime in with an unbiased opinion...

I thought that he brought up a lot of great info.

[blackpheasant]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy Badger

Makes me wonder if JT is smarter than folks give him credit for.

Sure...he might be avoiding a pending scandal that is already known to him or...he might just be thinking ahead far enough to be avoiding the eventual scandal that is bound to pop up some day.

Either way it is a pre-emptive move that steals Harpers thunder while at the same time forcing him to do what he has been promising but resisting.

Like him or not his old man was cagey and my thought is that some of it rubbed off on the kid.
I suspect he just called Harpers bluff and now we'll all get to see whether the Federal Conservatives blink and fold, stay or raise.

Pretty smart regardless of the reasoning and excellent tactical thinking.

Course it changes nothing for me... I'm voting independant regardless of the promises or what is thrown out to distract us.

Do you really think junior thought of this stunt all on his own

When the time comes Harper will shred this fool

[whammy]

Originally Posted by blackpheasant

Do you really think junior thought of this stunt all on his own

When the time comes Harper will shred this fool

How will he shred him? I honestly can't see Harper having a chance against Trudeau in the next election. In the last year Harper and the Conservatives have had nothing but bad press. I'm not saying Trudeau is going to be better, I'm just curious why you think Harper will shred him?

[nof60]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

You do understand that Senators do not run for election, right? There is no "winning". They don't need party coffers.

You do understand that the conversation had evolved into one about a EEE senate and senate reform hence the comment about parties if the senate was reformed. Do try and keep up.

[nof60]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

Ouch.....you should change your handle or the circles you're travelling in

Or stop reading about the endless scandals and incompetence of northern politicians. Heck just this week Yukon gov is being sued by 4 first nations, has been caught lyeing AGAIN and finished construction on 53 million worth of hospitals that their own studies showed were unneeded. Pork Barrel polictics is the norm in the North.

Besides we are all here cause we didnt fit in down there!!

[CanuckShooter]

Harper is going to fade off into obscurity where he belongs...his attacks on pensioners, natives, environmentalists, veterans...and the list goes on and on...will bite him and his party in the butt . All of these people are voters.....and are not likely to forget.

[Redfrog]

"There is more to life than firearms." That's just silly.

Whammy, you mentioned Ignatief. What ever happened to him or Celine's sister Stephanie Dionne. Didn't they run all over the country spending millions and telling everyone how their hearts pumped the blood of this great nation?

Elect the senate. 4 from each province and territory, and 4 for each First Nation nation and each Metis nation, and then we will have equality. Quebec would of course have 4 for the English nation and 4 for the separate French nation.

That would make things run smoother.

I'd like to see Rob Ford and Red Ford run for senate.

[Alberta Transplant]

I've never been affiliated with any political party or movement due to the bloated bowel movements we have had in Ottawa lately. Now I realize I'm in the heart of conservative country here, & I will admit I voted for the Conservatives on this platform of bringing transparency to Ottawa, however, King Harper the Hypocrite has come across to me as a micro managing meglomaniac. His latest stunt of eliminating valuable research documents in both Fisheries & Health Canada is quite alarming.....shades of Farenhiet 451. I'm not sure I could vote for the Liberals, as they destroyed my hometown in Onterrible by closing the only hospital in the province that ever continuously ran in the black & slaughtering the horse racing industry, killing off tens of thousands of jobs province wide. The NDP scare the bejesus outta me , so I guess I'll have to throw my support behind Rick Mercer.....

[Chuck_Wagon]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I never heard of that, the NDP's position is to abolish the Senate.
Would you have a link to the story?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/just...ucus-1.2515273

New Democrat Leader Tom Mulcair also raised an eyebrow in response to Trudeau's surprise announcement.

"It's quite interesting to see today that Justin Trudeau sees the merits of something we put on the table on Oct. 23," Mulcair said.

Last fall, the New Democrats had put forth a motion to end partisan activities in the Senate, including participation in caucus meetings. Trudeau voted against it.

Ultimately, Mulcair returned to the party's long-held position that the Upper Chamber should be abolished.

[whammy]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

"There is more to life than firearms." That's just silly.

Whammy, you mentioned Ignatief. What ever happened to him or Celine's sister Stephanie Dionne. Didn't they run all over the country spending millions and telling everyone how their hearts pumped the blood of this great nation?

Elect the senate. 4 from each province and territory, and 4 for each First Nation nation and each Metis nation, and then we will have equality. Quebec would of course have 4 for the English nation and 4 for the separate French nation.

That would make things run smoother.

I'd like to see Rob Ford and Red Ford run for senate.

Both Ignatieff and Dion were absolute clowns - completely out of touch with reality. Harper is out of touch too, just in a different direction. At this point I'm not convinced that Trudeau is any better, but this was a move in the right direction at least.

Why should each First Nation and Metis Nation have 4 representatives? That seems like a huge misrepresentation to me.