Redford to resign or get fired?

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by hal53

do you know why the royalties are reduced?????...please explain???

I am asking a question not stating a fact or purporting to know why. If we are receiving the lowest royalty rate in NA is it because our oil and gas is harder to recover than other jurisdictions?

[Saltmania]

Originally Posted by greylynx

Sure they put some money into the personal fund, and Myself and all the other taxpayers of Alberta top it off.....Bigtime.

I have no idea how Mr. Klein comes into teacher's benefits.

It seems the only people that ever come at me on this forum are individuals who are paid the taxpayers.

I work in the private sector, but let's not stop with the generalizations.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Saltmania

And exactly what quality of education do you think kids will receive if teachers' remuneration isn't competitive?

Teachers renumeration is not competetive. The taxpayers are held hostage by the ATA. Read a few posts above where I explained how teachers are renumerated in some US juristictions. The renumeration is on a competitive basis...not set by a union..where children come out feeeeeling gooood about themselves, but are dumber than a sack of hammers.

I have yet to see one teacher on this forum come out and tell the AO membership why the children in this province are coming out of school like a bunch of wet paper bags.

And what is worse the teachers could not even solve the problems because of the sheep mentality that pervades this occupation, much less a profession.

[Sneeze]

I will troll on into this thread.

I feel like I am in a position to speak about teachers in Alberta since I employ them. I also have two children attending school right now.

Teachers are over paid baby sitters.

We pay teachers so our wives can go to work to pay for teachers.

(and other taxes).

The only people that cheerlead teachers are teachers or relatives of teachers.

(those enjoying the ride on the gravy train)

That should tell you a lot. Public sector workers in Alberta are a target right now. The target is fair because their wages are out of proportion to the private sector.

Having an imbalance such as we do between private sector and public sector results in only one thing that socialists should care about. - Inflation, more specifically - diminishing purchasing power for lower class people not protected by AUPE.

Having 4 years of education means jack squat. Labor is a commodity. Supply vs. Demand sets the wage. When it doesn't a bubble is created. Teachers add ZERO "real" value to an economy. We need to stop looking at them as a part of it. They are a by-product of it.

You need a healthy economy before you can have teachers. You can not have teachers before you have an economy.

Privatize it. Make it accountable. Stop taxing me on it.

Quoting here

"Give us a chance to discover - the most valuable ways to serve one another"

[Dacotensis]

And Okotokian is sitting back laughing because no one can stay on topic.
Good thread otherwise though.
How can there ever be hope to defeat Ali when ppl here can't stay focused and on topic?
Just a small snapshot of the Alberta population right here guys!. Take a look at where the thread started and wher ethe last page has been directed.
Yes, the union is in bed with Ali. What else is there?

[mhd]

Originally Posted by jamie

ok.. Then answer the question for us..
Should she resign?

Jamie

yes

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

I am asking a question not stating a fact or purporting to know why. If we are receiving the lowest royalty rate in NA is it because our oil and gas is harder to recover than other jurisdictions?

yup, that's just a part of it, as well it's harder to refine, lots of condensate required to get it down the pipeline = $$$, plus, people watch Global and see that WTI is going for $86.00/BBl., know what ours is going for?, plus the sweetheart deal the Libs made with the Americans, so they could slash our military to nothing, if we gave the boys down south a discount....lots of reasons, the break even point on oil sands is $55.00/BBL with the technology we have, might be a little high now, as they are spending billions to improve numbers, heavy conventional is a very cost driven project, come and sit on my side of the desk and sign the bills, you have to do something to make it worthwhile for the guys to play.....sorry that's the Reader's Digest version.....

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

AHow can there ever be hope to defeat Ali when ppl here can't stay focused and on topic?
Just a small snapshot of the Alberta population right here guys!. Take a look at where the thread started and wher ethe last page has been directed.

People are angry that they can slave for countless hours at their small businesses trying to provide a product people will buy to earn a living. While we pay baby sitters 90k a year to do a job our wives could do if the government stopped taxing the krap out of us.

Give me back half the tax I spent last year and my wife could stay at home and cut out politically correct shapes from colored paper with my children just as easy as any teacher can.

[Saltmania]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

People are angry that they can slave for countless hours at their small businesses trying to provide a product people will buy to earn a living. While we pay baby sitters 90k a year to do a job our wives could do if the government stopped taxing the krap out of us.

Give me back half the tax I spent last year and my wife could stay at home and cut out politically correct shapes from colored paper with my children just as easy as any teacher can.

I feel sorry for your kids that teachers are only baby sitters in your eyes.

[bobalong]

Originally Posted by Saltmania

I feel sorry for your kids that teachers are only baby sitters in your eyes.

Passing on an attitude like that to your kids is unfourtunate, but fortunately it is the people that were only capable of learning how to cut out shapes that have it.

[JohninAB]

Originally Posted by hal53

yup, that's just a part of it, as well it's harder to refine, lots of condensate required to get it down the pipeline = $$$, plus, people watch Global and see that WTI is going for $86.00/BBl., know what ours is going for?, plus the sweetheart deal the Libs made with the Americans, so they could slash our military to nothing, if we gave the boys down south a discount....lots of reasons, the break even point on oil sands is $55.00/BBL with the technology we have, might be a little high now, as they are spending billions to improve numbers, heavy conventional is a very cost driven project, come and sit on my side of the desk and sign the bills, you have to do something to make it worthwhile for the guys to play.....sorry that's the Reader's Digest version.....

So lets say next door in Saskatchewan they do not have the same issues?

Another question for you and anyone else, it bothers you to no end that Redford restored the $107 million to education to buy votes and that makes teachers absolute villians. Well then how about the $139 million Klein wrote off that a timber company owed? Does that not make anyone working there equally despicable as the teachers as sure he bought some votes there.

Why when the US did their stumpage review for timber for the softwood lumber agreement Alberta came in at number 1 for being the highest subsidized timber industry in Canada. Mean by paying subsidized timber dues meant staff were paid higher wages, benefits were better all on the back of the Alberta taxpayer.

How can an oilfield consultant be paid the exorbinant wages they get if money is so tight in the patch? Curious on that one.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by JohninAB

So lets say next door in Saskatchewan they do not have the same issues?

Another question for you and anyone else, it bothers you to no end that Redford restored the $107 million to education to buy votes and that makes teachers absolute villians. Well then how about the $139 million Klein wrote off that a timber company owed? Does that not make anyone working there equally despicable as the teachers as sure he bought some votes there.

Why when the US did their stumpage review for timber for the softwood lumber agreement Alberta came in at number 1 for being the highest subsidized timber industry in Canada. Mean by paying subsidized timber dues meant staff were paid higher wages, benefits were better all on the back of the Alberta taxpayer.

How can an oilfield consultant be paid the exorbinant wages they get if money is so tight in the patch? Curious on that one.

Knew it wouldn't take long to get to this, My bad for even replying...YES the big bad companies OWE YOU lots.... enjoy....

[Sneeze]

Originally Posted by bobalong

Passing on an attitude like that to your kids is unfourtunate, but fortunately it is the people that were only capable of learning how to cut out shapes that have it.

Yes. That is exactly what I said. /sarc

Do teachers do something with your children that is different than what they do with mine? Perhaps I need to send them to a different school?

Or do you sincerely believe grading a grade 5 student's homework on "how well they colored within the lines" is a skill that requires 90k a year?

Teachers do one thing for my family we can't do better ourselves. That task being taking care of them when we are at work. AKA - baby-sitting them so private sector men & women can go to value added jobs and pay more in tax.

[mulie4x4]

After reading through some of these posts I am sure glad my kids are not going to any of your schools. I have been very happy with the quality of education they are getting and all the teachers I have come to know have been caring and hard working. I take a active role in my kids education and watch how they are doing, more so when they were younger and not just drop them off at the doors and think its the teachers responsibility now I have done my part. I takes both parents and teachers to work together to give children the education they need and I do not know any children who are dumber than a sack of hammer or come out of school like a bunch of wet paper bags and if you do I suggest you have a look at the parents more than the teachers. Not sure if it makes a difference but I have my kids in the Catholic system and in French immersion. I also take them out of school to go on holidays, hunting, fishing because they more to learning than just what come from books. If what I am reading on here about teachers is being said in front of your kids you are setting them up to fail with attitudes like that.
Oh by the I am not a teacher nor is anyone in my family.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Nothing wrong with in for the $$$$
Just make sure they do the jOb and do it extremly well.
Jamie

The ones capable of doing the job extremely well are working for private industry.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Not here, they don't.



Uh, huh. Did I mention that I taught school for 7 years?

I guess you didn't have the drive to survive all the BS.
Not sure where you live rocky, but the gov demands 180 days of school time for the kids.
What district are you in, I can figure out exactly how many days you're teachers work.
Jamie

[TBD]

divide that by 5 hrs instruction per day = 150.

That's right - they don't do lunch room or recess this is handled by you guessed it "volunteer parents" !

1200 hrs at current wages plus min increase .... what'll they want next yr ?

TBD

P.S. ... and what % of our teachers do you honestly think spend their own time marking and preparing for in class instruction (sure the good ones do).

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Jamie

I guess you didn't have the drive to survive all the BS.
Not sure where you live rocky, but the gov demands 180 days of school time for the kids.

Nope, not a matter of "drive" at all. I put in lots of hours. But I didn't have the patience for the bs and the politics. In my world, you lead, help or get the f-- out of the way. My kids exceeded average growth in academics every year by standardized tests I gave them. Every year. And my classes generally included the teenagers nobody else wanted or couldn't handle or were afraid of. By Easter, most of them would have walked on water for me. Whenever there was trouble, they came to me. If it was a matter of fairness or bullying - coming from anyone - they knew I'd walk on water for them, too. Otherwise, we did things my way.

And yeah, it's 180 days not the 200 day you claimed earlier, twice.

The vast majority of teachers have never been outside a classroom. They sat in the back of a classroom for 23 years and then moved to the front. They have no idea what it's like to earn a living in -40 or in the sun or work a night shift or bark their knuckles on a tool or be away from home for a week or sweat. They think their occupation is very difficult and very stressful. Kick them outside next week to build a shed and see how they feel about it on December 17. I guarantee you'd hear a lot more "thank you"'s and a lot less "I want"'s and "I deserve"'s and "I demand"'s.

Originally Posted by greylynx

Teachers renumeration is not competetive. The taxpayers are held hostage by the ATA. Read a few posts above where I explained how teachers are renumerated in some US juristictions. The renumeration is on a competitive basis...not set by a union..where children come out feeeeeling gooood about themselves, but are dumber than a sack of hammers.

I have yet to see one teacher on this forum come out and tell the AO membership why the children in this province are coming out of school like a bunch of wet paper bags.

And what is worse the teachers could not even solve the problems because of the sheep mentality that pervades this occupation, much less a profession.

You're hitting a nerve.

The priority of schools and school bureaucracies need to be the students, not teachers.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Sneeze

Yes. That is exactly what I said. /sarc

Do teachers do something with your children that is different than what they do with mine? Perhaps I need to send them to a different school?

Or do you sincerely believe grading a grade 5 student's homework on "how well they colored within the lines" is a skill that requires 90k a year?

Teachers do one thing for my family we can't do better ourselves. That task being taking care of them when we are at work. AKA - baby-sitting them so private sector men & women can go to value added jobs and pay more in tax.

How much money does a teacher make in Alberta?
On average, a full-time teacher working in Alberta with:

4 years of university (Bachelor of Education or B.Ed. degree) earns approximately $58,500.
5 years of university with a B.Ed. degree earns aproximately $61,800.
6 years of university with a B. Ed. degree earns approximately $65,400.


Seeing as how these are averages I guess some make less and some make more.....I don't suppose they earn this money tax free?

[Pincherguy]

Politicians and diapers have one thing in common. They should both be changed regularly, and for the same reason.
nuff said,
PG

[Badgerbadger]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

How much money does a teacher make in Alberta?
On average, a full-time teacher working in Alberta with:

4 years of university (Bachelor of Education or B.Ed. degree) earns approximately $58,500.
5 years of university with a B.Ed. degree earns aproximately $61,800.
6 years of university with a B. Ed. degree earns approximately $65,400.


Seeing as how these are averages I guess some make less and some make more.....I don't suppose they earn this money tax free?

Don't confuse everyone's preconcieved notions with facts there, buddy! You'll be accused of being a liberal sympathizer or something.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Teachers have 200 work days
Kids have 180

My wifes work day is 8-4:30
And that doesnt include all the "Homework" she does at night
Or report cards where it is extremly long days
Or the prep time for her classroom to get ready for the year
Or the PD days she does on the weekends (Classes)
Or the week she takes in the summer for further development
Or the nights for Parent teacher interviews


She deals with 40 some odd sets of parents as well.

You all think Teachers have it so easy.. Go get 4 years in University then start climbing the ladder.

She has no job security and can be fired for cause at any point.
(No Union)

I might also add, she loves her job.

Jamie

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Nope, not a matter of "drive" at all. I put in lots of hours. But I didn't have the patience for the bs and the politics. In my world, you lead, help or get the f-- out of the way. My kids exceeded average growth in academics every year by standardized tests I gave them. Every year. And my classes generally included the teenagers nobody else wanted or couldn't handle or were afraid of. By Easter, most of them would have walked on water for me. Whenever there was trouble, they came to me. If it was a matter of fairness or bullying - coming from anyone - they knew I'd walk on water for them, too. Otherwise, we did things my way.

And yeah, it's 180 days not the 200 day you claimed earlier, twice.

The vast majority of teachers have never been outside a classroom. They sat in the back of a classroom for 23 years and then moved to the front. They have no idea what it's like to earn a living in -40 or in the sun or work a night shift or bark their knuckles on a tool or be away from home for a week or sweat. They think their occupation is very difficult and very stressful. Kick them outside next week to build a shed and see how they feel about it on December 17. I guarantee you'd hear a lot more "thank you"'s and a lot less "I want"'s and "I deserve"'s and "I demand"'s.



You're hitting a nerve.

The priority of schools and school bureaucracies need to be the students, not teachers.

Rocky though I sometimes think you are on the right track with your thinking, seems you like to use a rather large brush. I find most overly opinionated people of both the left leaning and right leaning tend to do exactly that.
You know nothing of my wife's struggles to become a teacher and yes she has worked in labour jobs.
As well she put herself through private school in the USA and then went and worked on a isolated reservation on the BC coast in order to pay back the massive amount of loans she took out.
She now wants to get her masters in education.

As for your assertion that I said 200 days.. You forgot the first lesson in learning.. Quit talking and start listening.

I said 180 days classroom time and 200 days total.

Jamie

[qballs]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Rocky though I sometimes think you are on the right track with your thinking, seems you like to use a rather large brush. I find most overly opinionated people of both the left leaning and right leaning tend to do exactly that.
You know nothing of my wife's struggles to become a teacher and yes she has worked in labour jobs.
As well she put herself through private school in the USA and then went and worked on a isolated reservation on the BC coast in order to pay back the massive amount of loans she took out.
She now wants to get her masters in education.

As for your assertion that I said 200 days.. You forgot the first lesson in learning.. Quit talking and start listening.

I said 180 days classroom time and 200 days total.

Jamie

Jamie,
The problem is that although your wife may be one of the better ones, one that cares and wants to further herself, there is no pay increases for doing so, other than getting her masters and putting in years of service. Even by doing that, she doesn't get paid more than the worst teacher in Alberta at the same spot on the pay grid.

I agree, the good ones may not get paid enough, but there is no accountability or ways to get rid of the poor ones. Good ones spend a lot of time doing report cards etc, but I see the poor ones regularly beating me out of the parking lot after school, cutting and pasting a lot of their comments on report cards, etc.

The current system seems to be a great way to achieve mediocrity.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Rocky though I sometimes think you are on the right track with your thinking, seems you like to use a rather large brush. I find most overly opinionated people of both the left leaning and right leaning tend to do exactly that.
You know nothing of my wife's struggles to become a teacher and yes she has worked in labour jobs.

No, I don't. I've known some good teachers; real good. Most of them - and me - were generally disappointed at the selfish union mentality of teachers' unions and the bureaucrats who run schools. I never said "all" and I never said anything about your wife.

I think apologists for teachers and those who think they are overworked and underpaid are "overly opinionated".

When you make broad excuses for teachers, their high wages and benefits, short work year and lack of accountability, don't expect to get away with it by trotting out your wife as justification. Maybe your wife is one of the few good ones, I don't know. I do know that most of them - the majority - range from mediocre to useless.

.. You forgot the first lesson in learning.. Quit talking and start listening.

I said 180 days classroom time and 200 days total.

Jamie

You forgot the first lesson in honesty.

Nobody else calls 20 days of sitting around "working". Only teachers. Well, OK, they call it "time in lieu" these days and "conventions" and so on. That means "time in lieu of working" in the real world. That's why I said you were wrong with the 200 work days thing.

ON TOP of those days off, most of them don't work a full day on those 180 days - they get paid time to "prepare" within those 180 days.

ON TOP of those days off and time off during those 180 days, many of them get an assistant. Y'know, to do the work that is beneath them.

Are you adding any of this up? Or just writing it off as some kind of entitlement?

And, by the way, that's not what you said. You said this:

Originally Posted by Jamie

Teachers have 200 work days
Kids have 180

..........

Jamie

Having been corrected, you reach for your label gun and call me "overly opinionated"? Pretty standard liberal reaction, IMO, Jamie.

Nothing will improve in our education system as long as there are lots of people who defend the status quo.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by qballs

The current system seems to be a great way to achieve mediocrity.

We achieved mediocrity a long time ago. Now, we are protecting mediocrity and subsidizing it.

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

No, I don't. I've known some good teachers; real good. Most of them - and me - were generally disappointed at the selfish union mentality of teachers' unions and the bureaucrats who run schools. I never said "all" and I never said anything about your wife.

I think apologists for teachers and those who think they are overworked and underpaid are "overly opinionated".

When you make broad excuses for teachers, their high wages and benefits, short work year and lack of accountability, don't expect to get away with it by trotting out your wife as justification. Maybe your wife is one of the few good ones, I don't know. I do know that most of them - the majority - range from mediocre to useless.



You forgot the first lesson in honesty.

Nobody else calls 20 days of sitting around "working". Only teachers. Well, OK, they call it "time in lieu" these days and "conventions" and so on. That means "time in lieu of working" in the real world. That's why I said you were wrong with the 200 work days thing.

ON TOP of those days off, most of them don't work a full day on those 180 days - they get paid time to "prepare" within those 180 days.

ON TOP of those days off and time off during those 180 days, many of them get an assistant. Y'know, to do the work that is beneath them.

Are you adding any of this up? Or just writing it off as some kind of entitlement?

And, by the way, that's not what you said. You said this:



Having been corrected, you reach for your label gun and call me "overly opinionated"? Pretty standard liberal reaction, IMO, Jamie.

Nothing will improve in our education system as long as there are lots of people who defend the status quo.

Yeah....
I am a liberal.
Some times you talk out of your ass.
More later as I have to go hand out flowers at the Airport and work on my P.E.T memorial.
Fact is you couldn't Handel being a teacher. You weren't good enough.
Jamie

[qballs]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

No, I don't. I've known some good teachers; real good. Most of them - and me - were generally disappointed at the selfish union mentality of teachers' unions and the bureaucrats who run schools. I never said "all" and I never said anything about your wife.

I think apologists for teachers and those who think they are overworked and underpaid are "overly opinionated".

When you make broad excuses for teachers, their high wages and benefits, short work year and lack of accountability, don't expect to get away with it by trotting out your wife as justification. Maybe your wife is one of the few good ones, I don't know. I do know that most of them - the majority - range from mediocre to useless.

You forgot the first lesson in honesty.

Nobody else calls 20 days of sitting around "working". Only teachers. Well, OK, they call it "time in lieu" these days and "conventions" and so on. That means "time in lieu of working" in the real world. That's why I said you were wrong with the 200 work days thing.

ON TOP of those days off, most of them don't work a full day on those 180 days - they get paid time to "prepare" within those 180 days.

ON TOP of those days off and time off during those 180 days, many of them get an assistant. Y'know, to do the work that is beneath them.

Are you adding any of this up? Or just writing it off as some kind of entitlement?

And, by the way, that's not what you said. You said this:



Having been corrected, you reach for your label gun and call me "overly opinionated"? Pretty standard liberal reaction, IMO, Jamie.

Nothing will improve in our education system as long as there are lots of people who defend the status quo.

Very well put Rocky!!

[TBD]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Yeah....
I am a liberal.
Some times you talk out of your ass.
More later as I have to go hand out flowers at the Airport and work on my P.E.T memorial.
Fact is you couldn't Handel being a teacher. You weren't good enough.
Jamie

.... your a liberal alright - lose the argument close out with personal BS comments !

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Jamie

Yeah....
I am a liberal.
Some times you talk out of your ass.
More later as I have to go hand out flowers at the Airport and work on my P.E.T memorial.
Fact is you couldn't Handel being a teacher. You weren't good enough.
Jamie

Yup, that's how it goes when you point out a liberal is wrong. First, the label gun. Next, the insults. That's why it's so hard to pry away their entitlements.

ps: I can spell, though.

[TBD]

Next

P.S. .... yes REDford should RESIGN !