Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

[Donkey Oatey]

Holy crap!!!! I am scared now. I have an airsoft pistol I keep at the front door for shooting cats that come in to my yard. It is out of reach of anyone under 6' tall. I have been teaching my daughters about safe handling with it. Now if they draw a picture or tell a story of me and my kids playing SWAT in the living room with a clear plastic airsoft pistol I am going to be arrested.

What a crock of crap. The kids love shooting it. Knocking over cans and they get super excited. Makes me shudder at the lack of basic human rights and their abuses by the police, Social Services, and the school in this case. Hell our school has taken away lunch stuff away from kids because they determined it was junk food. I told my kids to let them take it but to call me right away. I determine what my kids will and will not eat, not some teacher.

[Evilsports]

The child was 4 years old.

At no point did somebody take this into consideration?

My daughter is four years old and if I took everything she said at face value I'd be after her four year old cousin for making her "eat glass" and "throwing hot bricks at her".

How do they even call the police and report something like this with a straight face?

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I doubt this will ease her mind. We already had a chat when she called me in over the one piece of lead, and what made me upset, and I let her know, was the fact that my son told her that he forgot it in his pocket, and he even told her that we had spoken it about it, and he had taken all the others out of his pocket so that he could get permission.

So she replied that a bullet is dangerous and illegal to take to school. To which I replied that what he took by accident to school was not a bullet, but was a piece of lead,

Am I understanding this correctly, it was a piece of lead that had been fired at a target and you recovered? I suppose it is dangerous... as a choking hazard.

Her conversation with me yesterday was not one of concern, but was more of a threat to me. Needless to say, I will record the conversation, and will be writing letters to the ministry on her actions

I would consider taking a lawyer with me and letting him do the talking. But a good part of that would be so I wouldn't go ballistic... I don't know that I could remain calm through that sort of conversation.

ARG

[Yéil]

My daughter's school used to have those talks with me all the time... Her grandmother was a Mountie, I was in the Navy and both my grandmothers were hunters. My daughter used to tell the teacher what she did on the weekends with "her womenfolk" that usually entailed a few hours at the range, some trap setting, maybe a moose stalking, a hike or picking berries... all activities involved a weapon being present.

The teachers were upset at the notion that the kid was being influenced by women to use violent weapons... yeah right my mom said... "like a shopping cart in Costco isn't lethal when pushed by a chick on a mission to find THE sale item."



My mom who liked to come to these meetings in uniform, invited the teacher ( a woman originally from the Toronto area) out one day to go berry picking with us... we drove to the spot just at the Alaskan border and set out a picking... When we unpacked the rifles and my mom checked her sidearm, the teacher was aghast over the "Unnecessary amount of firearms"... she decided to move further away from us to be away from the weapons.. mom said.. "not a good idea but there will be a lesson learned eventually." The teacher was all excited and vigorously got into the picking part... then we smelled the sow... the teacher missed it... (how I'll never know.. do Torontonians have no sense of smell?).

So my mom quietly calls over to the teacher to start slowly head back towards us... teacher asks why.. mom says... "Grizzly sow at your one o'clock." Took five warning shots before the big girl decided it was just too noisy for her. The teacher if given the chance would have emptied all of our rifles at the bear as she moved towards the truck.

My then, eight year old says to her in the truck.. "Ms So and So, maybe you should get a rifle for yourself, there's a lot of those bears up here, that's what the signs say in town. Did you not read them?" Never heard another word from the teacher or school about "womenfolk and guns".

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

Her conversation with me yesterday was not one of concern, but was more of a threat to me. Needless to say, I will record the conversation, and will be writing letters to the ministry on her actions, which is how I have been able to successfully deal with all the other crap from the various agencies my ex has used in the past to try to get the kids back from me.

Our schools are no longer there to educate our children, but more to guide them into being pansies.

So, it sounds like she's power tripping. If your ex pulled THAT bs (I've seen what people will do . . . I've got a good idea what you endured), you've already been through a series of investigations and cleared. The principal would get no satisfaction involving CPS. Sure, they'd check up on her complaint (they'd have to), but it would probably be pretty quick and painless.

I would play the recorded conversation for your school board representative. I have actually gotten quite a bit of satisfaction from mine over the years. They are elected to their positions, and I'm under the impression that they (mine, anyway) really like something like this to deal with. Maybe discuss it with your MLA, too.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by cmdalexander

I do not have any children, so I am only asking and not trying to enflame; is there any particular reason you have not told the principal to go pound salt?

I am sure as sh@t that I would not be hauled down tothe prinicpal's office for owning guns.

Who has giving these people so much power?

Please do not misunderstand, if a child comes to school and has bruises, or has eaten or complains about being touch by someone, I can nderstand. However I do not understand how you, as an adult can be hauled in for engaging in a Legal activity.

Some times it is better to smile when being insulted, and plan your actions to ensure the problem does not happen again. Knowing the laws and how to stand up for your rights is power.

Schools have the power to screw your whole life. My son's last school called social services on my wife, because my ex wife asked them to. After a very long process, and many meetings and investigations, social services won't take another complaint from my ex, and any accusation will be investigated before they speak to the children to ensure that it is based on an actual problem. As such I have not had a problem in nearly a year and a half now, and my ex actually speaks to me about issues now.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Classic_Cool

Next time just say cap guns are part of your religion....

As a Pastafarian, it would have to have been a cap flint lock pistol. But he is 21 now, so I don't think I need worry about being called into the principal's office. I hope!

ARG

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

Probably ... and with that ^, the authorites would have just cause.

Give yer heads a shake folks ... nuff said.


<B>

TF

</B>

Unbelievable, you surely are no mountain man. Maybe your picture should have a skateboarder in it. What part of "convicted" dont you understand? So the guy had a charge for something at some time,,, he paid his debt to society and left with a clean slate. This guy is a victim of the times, just like every one else that see's the terrible direction society is headed.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Am I understanding this correctly, it was a piece of lead that had been fired at a target and you recovered? I suppose it is dangerous... as a choking hazard.



I would consider taking a lawyer with me and letting him do the talking. But a good part of that would be so I wouldn't go ballistic... I don't know that I could remain calm through that sort of conversation.

ARG

My son picked up about 50 pieces, along with the empty cases. He had his target as well and was really proud of his shooting skill, and wanted to show it at show and tell. Since this happened, he has not wanted to do any show and tell. In fact he has been less interested in school since.

I have wasted over $220K on lawyers in my divorce so far, and spent another $5K dealing with the initial social services complaint. I don't need to bring in a lawyer until they actually have some power to do something, and that is gotten once the principal says something stupid, and I know she will again. They think they are smarter and in a position of power, but that is actually not the case, and will be her downfall.

I get far more by keeping my composure and then replying with straight forward statements. Such as explaining what the law actually states, and how their lack of knowledge in this area will be expensive in a legal sense.

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

As a Pastafarian, it would have to have been a cap flint lock pistol. But he is 21 now, so I don't think I need worry about being called into the principal's office. I hope!

ARG

Personally I'm a member of the Church of Lenny. I have the divine right to carry a ritual M16, perform medical procedures, and drop my pants in public at 12:47 every day while chanting at the sky. Also leap years are holy.

Lenny be praised.

[Redfrog]

It's all perspective people.

Ontario

He did get sent to the principal's office. We know how serious that can be.

Cops wanted to see the guy nekkid. Ontario, Actually I've heard of guys telling other guys that a firearm was such a POS they should shove it up .....I hope I don't have to draw a picture.

Brain dead victim who was happy with just a strip search, arrest, going to jail, signs off the search. Ontario

They had to search. Monsters under the bed.

Wonder if they looked at his emails?

Hey at least the didn't find a loaded handgun under the seat of his vehicle.
They would have handed him a reprimand on the spot.

Anyone else ever been charged with owning a firearm?

[hunted]

Originally Posted by alacringa

I will only say that my only experience dealing with child and family services, here in Alberta, completely destroyed my faith in the system. Aside from saying that the incident itself did not involve me, personally, I cannot (and will not) go into further detail.

I have dealt with social services in our recent adoption of our son. My wife was concerned about my gun ownership. But the came saw how I stored them and how we stored our cleaning products and said no problem. Never heard anything more about it. Now we have our son and everything is great. I have nothing but good things to say about our social services people!

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by 300savage

What an absolute crock. What is the harm in that poster. I think it is very well thought out and would grab the attention of the other students. I can't believe how kids are being taught to be sheep.

Thanks for that. I was quite upset. This was a brand new school for us, and I was very proud of him for being so outgoing.

Honestly? I know it's not a big deal, but ever since that happened, he just hasn't really been trying to fit in or make friends.

I know this was the impetus. It's still on his shoulders to take the bull by the horns and decide to do something about it, but as a mother, it makes me so sad, as I didn't want to have to move him in the first place.

[pogo]

What's the big deal?

This is obviously just a reasonable apprehension of a crime.

[300savage]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

Thanks for that. I was quite upset. This was a brand new school for us, and I was very proud of him for being so outgoing.

Honestly? I know it's not a big deal, but ever since that happened, he just hasn't really been trying to fit in or make friends.

I know this was the impetus. It's still on his shoulders to take the bull by the horns and decide to do something about it, but as a mother, it makes me so sad, as I didn't want to have to move him in the first place.

I would be right pi$$ed off. These institutions only care about all kids being assimilated to fit a certain standard and to take away their individualism.

[BANG]

Everyday that goes by makes me happier i never had children.
these storys are beyond ridiculous.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by pogo

What's the big deal?

This is obviously just a reasonable apprehension of a crime.

Do you have children?

How would you feel if your child said something that his/her teacher felt was inappropriate given their bias? And then you either lost your child to a foster home due to this bias and had to wait for an investigation, or like the individual in this case was arrested at school, in front of the child, and then taken to jail and strip searched?

What happened to simply asking the parent to explain a questionable statement by a 4 yr old?

Society has gone so far away from common sense. It won't be long before boys are implanted with a tracking chip at birth because we fear them.

[Rod1960]

Originally Posted by pogo

What's the big deal?

This is obviously just a reasonable apprehension of a crime.

Spent some time last spring teaching my daughter how to shoot,



brb....someone's at the door. (get the picture?)

[Dakota369]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

I have a meeting on Monday with my son's principal and teacher. The Principal called to inform me that my son is in trouble for making a gun like action on the school bus, and that since he was already reprimanded for bringing bullets to school. (actually was only the .22 lead from the target, and he forgot it in his pocket. He wanted to take it to school for show and tell when I told him he needed to get permission from his teacher to take his target and spent casings to school, which prompted him to empty his pockets into the coin pocket in the car except for this one, and when he was at school he found it in his pocket under his mitten. He showed his friend, who told the teacher he had a bullet, and then got called to the office and was told he could be suspended for it because it was dangerous.)

Anyways I spoke with my son, and it sounds like the kids where playing on the bus to school, but he was the one to get into trouble. He is also in trouble because he took his BB playbook to school and took a video of a couple friends. The principal has informed me that this is also a very bad issue as he did not have permission from all the kids parents to take a video.

Bottom line, schools these days are out of control with control. Kids are punished for the stupidest little issue, yet are not taught proper rules and behavior, yet alone reading, writing, and arithmetic.

The principal specifically wants to talk to me about guns and gun safety on Monday. She told me that she knows I own weapons, and wants to ensure that I am careful with them around my children. I think that will be a very interesting conversation.

You will have to come back and fill us all in on the chat. I have a 4 year old who will be hitting the school system soon, as well as several relatives (by marriage) who are school teachers, even one who is a principle. I will have to bring this up one night at the next family diner and see what the "policy" is.....

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by Rod1960

Spent some time last spring teaching my daughter how to shoot,



brb....someone's at the door. (get the picture?)

Yes to some this kind of instruction is bad for the child, and you are a monster for teaching your daughter how to shoot.

My ex did take me to court for teaching my children to shoot, but problem was in one of her earlier affidavits she claimed that she should be the only person to raise the kids due to them being native and needing to learn from her how to hunt and learn native cultures. Needless to say, my ex lost that hearing too. But it cost me a few thousand to defend myself.

[Arachnodisiac]

Originally Posted by 300savage

I would be right pi$$ed off. These institutions only care about all kids being assimilated to fit a certain standard and to take away their individualism.

I have to say the school has been excellent in other ways though.

[dgl1948]

“From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

They are going to have to start doing a lot of investigating if she holds true to her statement. I wonder if she is the one the Shafia girls turned to for help? That turned out real well.

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

They are going to have to start doing a lot of investigating if she holds true to her statement. I wonder if she is the one the Shafia girls turned to for help? That turned out real well.

Conversation being the operative word. Arresting the father on the basis of a child's drawing is a good way to get a whole lot of people fired in my opinion.

Not familiar with the Shafia girls?

[u_cant_rope_the_wind]

Originally Posted by vcmm

It's like living in a Dictatorship

read our freedom and rights amendment, no where does it say we are free in Canada,
also in Canada it doesn't say we are innocent until proven guilty,
we are actually guilty until we prove we are innocent

welcome to dictatorship crossed with communism= Canada

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by dgl1948

They are going to have to start doing a lot of investigating if she holds true to her statement. I wonder if she is the one the Shafia girls turned to for help? That turned out real well.

The Shafia's never complained about guns at home. Perhaps if they did things may have been different.

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by u_cant_rope_the_wind

read our freedom and rights amendment, no where does it say we are free in Canada,
also in Canada it doesn't say we are innocent until proven guilty,
we are actually guilty until we prove we are innocent

welcome to dictatorship crossed with communism= Canada

"In Canada, section 11(d) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states: "Any person charged with an offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to law in a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal".

However you'll notice that it says any person charged with an offence is innocent until proven guilty. In other words they can arrest you and do whatever else they want as long as they don't hang you in the local jail. Kind of disillusioning really....

This Wikipedia article is worth a read...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_innocence

[Twisted Canuck]

Thinking about this line in the story again today:

“From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

Waterloo Regional Police Insp. Kevin Thaler said there was a complaint from Forest Hills public school that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”


40 yrs ago, when I was 4, if these teachers and principle, Child Safety yoyos, police, had all looked at the pictures I drew, of tanks and guns and ships and planes, they would have had to come and arrest my dad and investigate if he was planning on invading Poland! He is, afterall, German.

Makes just as much sense as what happened here....

[pattycr125]

brave new world(puke)

[silver lab]

I always tell my wife that if I can't amount to anything in life I can always be a cop!!! Six mounths in depo and I'am packin.

[270WIN]

I recall when I was in grade 9 (many, many years ago) walking to the bus depot after school on Friday to catch a bus to Edmonton where my uncle would pick me up and take me duck hunting on Saturday. My suitcase was in one hand and my cased shotgun in the other. Both had spent the afternoon stored in the principal's office. He was perfectly happy to do this for one of his students. I simply picked them up from him and walked down to the bus depot about two blocks away. No big deal. This happened two or three times that fall as I remember.
Those were happier times.