Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school

[Selkirk]

Some folks here are overlookiing this 'key' bit of information;

" . . . Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault and attempted burglary . . . "

Knowing that ^, if I were the police, or school principal, I'd probably do the same things they did.


Give yer heads a shake folks, the guy is a convicted, violent criminal.

What part of this, don't you understand?!

TF

[thirty-30]

Nobody is arguing with the need to follow up on it.

They are arguing with how it was done.

I suppose you'd rather he got knocked over the head and taken down forcibly in front of the entire class?

A bit more common sense and tact and it could have been handled far more properly.

I agree that based on his past history, it NEEDED to be investigated.

But arresting him in the principal's office, in full view of the public, gung ho, in front of his kids, dragging his kids off to protective services was a little much.

Hell, even waiting until he got home would have been a better option.

How much trauma did those children suffer from that?

Oh, doesn't matter. Just another case of Ontario cops going 'Oop, firearm was mentioned, doesn't matter if it was supposedly used to shoot monsters, better go in hot and heavy and humiliate the perp as best we can'

[booker]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Too bad he consented to a search.

Yeah, really too bad.

[Selkirk]

No offence ment to you, but in my book, in the interest of public safety, convicted violent criminals deserve no quarter.

TF

[OverTheHill]

This is how we begin being a police state...
Welcome 2012-20XX The worst years of your life
Snitch on the guy that parks in a handicap stall and by the time "they" is done....
That is what they are.... HANDICAP

That is not even the sickest part
Sickest part is.... WE ALLOW IT for the fear of... What if????

"Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security."

We just gave up our sovereignty.... O but that's just because we want to join the world people


Be afraid people..... Be afraid.....
After all.... You have been programmed to

[thirty-30]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

No offence ment to you, but in my book, in the interest of public safety, convicted violent criminals deserve no quarter.

TF

Meh, edited. At this point I'm just being grumpy and cronfrontational.

[OverTheHill]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

Some folks here are overlookiing this 'key' bit of information;

" . . . Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault and attempted burglary . . . "

Knowing that ^, if I were the police, or school principal, I'd probably do the same things they did.


Give yer heads a shake folks, the guy is a convicted, violent criminal.

What part of this, don't you understand?!

TF

The part where he's been clean for so many years AND the POSSIBILITY
that he should be presumed innocent until proven guilty

Are you not Canadian? Have you been also programmed?
O wait....

You think we should check everyone "we" suspect???

I think that long dirty beard makes you a dirty old man..... Should we pull up the gloves and search those caveties that just might have something, disregarding any respect for your ass???

[OverTheHill]

I will stop now before I lose my privilege of being a member on here... PLEASE wake up people... Those that do that is

[GoodTimes]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

Some folks here are overlookiing this 'key' bit of information;

" . . . Sansone says he got into some trouble with the law five years ago, and was convicted of assault and attempted burglary . . . "

Knowing that ^, if I were the police, or school principal, I'd probably do the same things they did.


Give yer heads a shake folks, the guy is a convicted, violent criminal.

What part of this, don't you understand?!

TF

Alright, Il bite. Whos to say the "assault" charges didnt stem from kickin the teeth out of a scumbag that broke into his house / garage? Maybe he caught the guy and chased him back to his home and was charged with burgalery too. Far fetched maybe, but entirely possible. Theres lots of details missing and as such none of us have enough information to know the facts

[OverTheHill]

Originally Posted by Dacotensis

In 2009 I was going through a bilaterall custody assesment. (Seperation).
My son 5.5 at the time had been given a few firearms by my uncle, my sons 2nd uncle.
It's been a tradition with all of his neices and nephews-one of the by-products of pioneering stock I guess.
Anyway, my sone was aware that he had a 22 and a shotgun given to him, so like all 7 yr olds he talked about it to friends at school.
I had to tell him that there were some things that shouldn't be talked about at school as others may not understand the use of a firearm and what they mean to alot of ppl.
So, off he goes to tell his mom what I told him. She seized this opportunity to tell the psychologist that I am teaching him to keep secrets and compartamentalize(did I spell that right?).
When the wretched shrink confronted me about this I told her that I was not teaching him to keep secrets but rather to choose who he talks to about these things, afterall I don't want to deal with a potential breakin or whatever else.

It didn't matter to her. She chose to put the part about me "teaching" my son to keep secrets but did not elaborate what the subject matter was. I no like her! It was used against me.
She was also adamant that no 7 yr old should be going hunting. She insisted that she had talked to several males in her field of work and they all insisted they would never take a young child hunting.

No, if the law met me at a school and asked me to consent to searching my house I suspect there would be verbal diatrabe unleashed on said person.
So many times evidence is gained through illegal search warrants. case is dropped but by then its too late. Media gets ahold of it and they never follow up on the outcome of the story. Just sensationalize the story. BAD Gunman.
WTH is a gunman?
I get pizzed when I here this type of shat.

Sorry man I just read this and I am so disappointed what the law resorts to as advice.. Reality is out and **** is acceptable...

I am just sick of the "fragile" world of words we live in....
**** ALL OF YOU.... O wait... that might mean i want intercourse with you right????????????????? ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

MORONS

[OverTheHill]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

I can't believe you asked that ^ question ... the guy openly admitted that he is a convicted criminal of a violent crime.

Me thinks you have been eating too much honey lately.

TF

The fact that you chose such an avatar seems to me that you must be a criminal.... It might not make sense to you but to me... IT DOES

NOW YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS...

I will change and make YOUR life upside down because I said so...

Just like YOU said so about a previous conviction that the guy paid his dues for....

So you are also a criminal for life for doing what you did as a kid.... AND YOU KNOW YOU DID LOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OverTheHill]

Originally Posted by Kevwood

I agree with a lot of your comments in that this could have gone down in a more civilized fashion....but the kid draws the picture....the teacher hears it is the dad which uses the gun to shoot bad guys(and monsters lol)....she contacts the principal which contacts the police...which see he has a prior violent conviction...up to this point it seems status quo....then the part with arrests and social services and the searching of homes.........................glad I have no criminal record for when my daughters draw pictures of me hunting when they are in school...I can hear it now..."this is my dad, he has lots of guns and comes home with blood on his clothes all the time"

So....
If he was a real psycho and had a "pardon"... It was OK????
We ALL mess up sometime in our lives.... Should we pay for it eternally?

I mean... Imagine how you parents feel!!!! LOL
OK that was a stabbing bleeder but only to make my point..
Please let it go brother
Cheers

[OverTheHill]

"glad I have no criminal record for when my daughters draw pictures of me hunting when they are in school...I can hear it now..."this is my dad, he has lots of guns and comes home with blood on his clothes all the time"

WE ARE GLAD FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You stunning prototype.... Do you have a pardon???
If you don't then you mean nothing... ACCORDING to you ofcourse
Oh wait.... You forgot

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

No offence ment to you, but in my book, in the interest of public safety, convicted violent criminals deserve no quarter.

TF

Wow! It must be nice to be a saint.

Okay, so you have never had a speeding ticket, good for you.

But I wonder what crimes you have been fortunate enough to escape getting caught doing ?

"For ALL have sinned" Or is God a lair?

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by thirty-30

Nobody is arguing with the need to follow up on it.

Follow up for what !!!???

There is no indication or suggestion that the police were aware of this mans past when they arrested him. In fact their own words suggest very strongly that they did not have that information at that time.

Waterloo Regional Police Insp. Kevin Thaler said there was a complaint from Forest Hills public school that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”

Given the amateur nature of the investigation there is every reason to believe they were never aware of his past.


Besides, he paid for his crime. It is hypocritical of us to say a person paid for their crime and then continue to treat them like a criminal.

Investigate, sure. But arrest and body search! THAT IS TREATING A PERSON LIKE A CRIMINAL. unless of course the police had probable cause to believe that this person had illegal or item dangerous to the public, ON HIS PERSON.

I can't believe that a child's drawing is acceptable as probable cause for arrest in any court in this country. Reason to investigate maybe, but it should never ever be cause for any further action, without a complete investigation first.

To claim that such action is justified whenever a child's safety might be in danger is both hypocritical of any government agency and is false.

How many times has the government left children in foster homes even when there was physical evidence that that child was being abused and even when any reasonable person would believe that the child's life was in grave danger?

The argument in this case is also false, because if it were true, they could also arrest a person for taking a child to a playground, on the grounds that the child's safety was in danger because that child could fall off a swing, a slide, ext.

Common sense people. It's a matter of common sense.
A gun in a home is not necessarily a danger.

If that child had drawn a picture of someone holding a gun to another persons head, then perhaps the argument that the picture warranted investigation, would hold water.

As it is, ALL OFFICIALS in this case are guilty of gross abuse of power.
PERIOD.

[cmdalexander]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

I'm amazed that the authorities never had to arrest my Dad and try to find where he kept the sharks and intergalactic battle cruisers.

My 4 year old wears a foam sword and a hat with a feather and insists we call him 'Puss 'N Boots'.

Better get him to stop before he gets to grade 1, you might get hauled infront of the Intergalactic Supreme Council or even wose PETA.

All kidding aside I cannot believe the power that the Schools, FAC and
Police have.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Anyone else worried about the continued development of a police state in this country?

I didn't realize that testimony from a 4 year old carried such weight.

JFC

How this was handled is very surprising. I can't comment on Ontario's protocol, as I know nothing about it.

The "bad guys and monsters" comment is no doubt what freaked them out.

Here, I suspect such a comment would have resulted in a child protection worker being called to the school. The worker would interview the child, and try to determine if there was any cause for concern. Children so young can have a very hard time distinguishing fantasy from reality, and the workers are pretty good at sifting through things to uncover the truth.

Once the worker had a good idea what was going on, the parents would then be either a) interviewed by the worker (firearms storage and access would be the crux), or b) collected by the police.

I've personally gone through such an interview twice. Whether the worker feels there is an issue or not, the interview has to happen to close out the case. I only had a bow at the time, and I was raked over the coals over for that one! The fact that my son told a teacher, "You can't tell my mom! She'll beat me!" didn't worry the worker (he was able to determine during the interview that my son had no fear of me), but that I had a compound bow locked in a case which was locked in my storage room was a huge bone of contention.

[rhuntley12]

Couldn't the police have just checked the gun registry and found out he doesn't own any guns and left it at that?

Nice that now days anything is just call the police and the police don't even ask questions they go straight to screwing someone over.

[laut]

Well, We will see more of these bull **** happening in this country with this government. I can't believe people would vote for a nut case with a stupid idiology in his head in Ottawa to run this country.
i hope this father didn't get put in jail for mandatory 3 years jail time.
I better be careful of what I am saying in the post, they may be watching me or listening my phone calls.

[sunsetrider2011]

Originally Posted by TriggerFinger

I can't believe you asked that ^ question ... the guy openly admitted that he is a convicted criminal of a violent crime.

Me thinks you have been eating too much honey lately.

TF

Honestly, every conviction that happens in this country isnt Justified and Is possibly railroaded,into certain circumstances, How many (lackminded) folks,,that dont know the law just roll over from pressure from Police or the justice system because its easier to deal with it, and what is pounded into your HEAD ( You cant win you might as well confess) Actually how many of these guys actually do this ,,More than likely more than we care to admit,,Hence this guy giving the police the permision to searh,, UNDER NO circumstance do you give anyone Permission to search with out a proper leagal Search Warrant, Its the lack of knowledge of the justice system that people get railroaded into these system.
I can garantee if it was me , there would be lawyers up everyones ***** that was involved for proper compensation.

[rwm1273]

I have a meeting on Monday with my son's principal and teacher. The Principal called to inform me that my son is in trouble for making a gun like action on the school bus, and that since he was already reprimanded for bringing bullets to school. (actually was only the .22 lead from the target, and he forgot it in his pocket. He wanted to take it to school for show and tell when I told him he needed to get permission from his teacher to take his target and spent casings to school, which prompted him to empty his pockets into the coin pocket in the car except for this one, and when he was at school he found it in his pocket under his mitten. He showed his friend, who told the teacher he had a bullet, and then got called to the office and was told he could be suspended for it because it was dangerous.)

Anyways I spoke with my son, and it sounds like the kids where playing on the bus to school, but he was the one to get into trouble. He is also in trouble because he took his BB playbook to school and took a video of a couple friends. The principal has informed me that this is also a very bad issue as he did not have permission from all the kids parents to take a video.

Bottom line, schools these days are out of control with control. Kids are punished for the stupidest little issue, yet are not taught proper rules and behavior, yet alone reading, writing, and arithmetic.

The principal specifically wants to talk to me about guns and gun safety on Monday. She told me that she knows I own weapons, and wants to ensure that I am careful with them around my children. I think that will be a very interesting conversation.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

The principal specifically wants to talk to me about guns and gun safety on Monday. She told me that she knows I own weapons, and wants to ensure that I am careful with them around my children. I think that will be a very interesting conversation.

While it sucks that you've got to go in and have this "chat," I'm actually really encouraged that she has opted to talk to you directly. It seems that many in the educational field have forgotten how to talk to parents: especially when a phone call to CPS is so quick and easy. Hopefully this chat will ease her mind.

[Arachnodisiac]

My son was running for school president and created a poster that was not allowed. He wasn't allowed to hand a single one out.
I felt so badly for him because he was so stoked about it.

But not only was he told to remove the video game character, he wasn't allowed to use the word "fight," even in this context.

Anyway, he didn't really have time to make a new poster, and he withdrew his candidacy, completely deflated.

[300savage]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

My son was running for school president and created a poster that was not allowed. He wasn't allowed to hand a single one out.
I felt so badly for him because he was so stoked about it.

But not only was he told to remove the video game character, he wasn't allowed to use the word "fight," even in this context.

Anyway, he didn't really have time to make a new poster, and he withdrew his candidacy, completely deflated.

What an absolute crock. What is the harm in that poster. I think it is very well thought out and would grab the attention of the other students. I can't believe how kids are being taught to be sheep.

[super7mag]

Friggin nanny state, police reaction way over the top, he should sue. It sure is funny how everyone but you know whats right for your kids, some major bs. We have a family picture on the fridge my 5 yr old drew at KG 2 months ago, Dads got a new rifle and mom has a new necklace, and I am in camo. I thought it was funny, never stopped to think of what the teachers thought.lol. I do a fair bit of work for the husband of one of the teachers, and have hunted geese on there land more then once. it's a small town so maybe its just not on the radar , as much as larger centers.

[rwm1273]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

While it sucks that you've got to go in and have this "chat," I'm actually really encouraged that she has opted to talk to you directly. It seems that many in the educational field have forgotten how to talk to parents: especially when a phone call to CPS is so quick and easy. Hopefully this chat will ease her mind.

I doubt this will ease her mind. We already had a chat when she called me in over the one piece of lead, and what made me upset, and I let her know, was the fact that my son told her that he forgot it in his pocket, and he even told her that we had spoken it about it, and he had taken all the others out of his pocket so that he could get permission.

So she replied that a bullet is dangerous and illegal to take to school. To which I replied that what he took by accident to school was not a bullet, but was a piece of lead, and that he was proud of his target shooting ability and wanted to show that at show and tell, yet due to her and the schools position, his moral had been destroyed, and she scared him so bad with her threat of suspension, that he will never want to take anything to school again for show and tell.

Her conversation with me yesterday was not one of concern, but was more of a threat to me. Needless to say, I will record the conversation, and will be writing letters to the ministry on her actions, which is how I have been able to successfully deal with all the other crap from the various agencies my ex has used in the past to try to get the kids back from me.

Our schools are no longer there to educate our children, but more to guide them into being pansies.

[Classic_Cool]

There's no way a child's drawing is just cause for that kind of treatment, prior record or not.

I mean seriously, if the child had said "The man down the street touched me!" they would have INVESTIGATED it, not kicked the guy's door down, dragged him into the street in handcuffs yelling "PEDOPHILE! WE GOT A PEDOPHILE HERE FOLKS!! LOCK UP YER KIDS!!!".

And yet a drawing of Daddy shooting the monster under the bed gets him dragged away by the cops in front of the whole school. I didn't realize monsters were a protected species....

[cmdalexander]

Originally Posted by rwm1273

The principal specifically wants to talk to me about guns and gun safety on Monday. She told me that she knows I own weapons, and wants to ensure that I am careful with them around my children. I think that will be a very interesting conversation.

I do not have any children, so I am only asking and not trying to enflame; is there any particular reason you have not told the principal to go pound salt?

I am sure as sh@t that I would not be hauled down tothe prinicpal's office for owning guns.

Who has giving these people so much power?

Please do not misunderstand, if a child comes to school and has bruises, or has eaten or complains about being touch by someone, I can nderstand. However I do not understand how you, as an adult can be hauled in for engaging in a Legal activity.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

But not only was he told to remove the video game character, he wasn't allowed to use the word "fight," even in this context.

Oh for the love of ... I guess we have to teach them early to be good little sheep!

When my youngest was in grade 2 or 3, some bright spark at the school decided they should have "spy day"; students were told to dress up as their favourite spy. He chose James Bond and took a cap pistol to school. I have to leave work early to go pick him up from the principal's office and he gets suspended for a day. The principal at least had the good graces to look embarrassed about it.

I think 'zero tolerance policies' are there to absolve people in positions of authority from having to make a decision and being held accountable for that decision.

ARG

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by Au revoir, Gopher

Oh for the love of ... I guess we have to teach them early to be good little sheep!

When my youngest was in grade 2 or 3, some bright spark at the school decided they should have "spy day"; students were told to dress up as their favourite spy. He chose James Bond and took a cap pistol to school. I have to leave work early to go pick him up from the principal's office and he gets suspended for a day. The principal at least had the good graces to look embarrassed about it.

I think 'zero tolerance policies' are there to absolve people in positions of authority from having to make a decision and being held accountable for that decision.

ARG

Next time just say cap guns are part of your religion....