i don't understand why he shot this particular animal

I'm familiar with the issue 340, I just said I don't have all the facts and quite honestly don't have time to look at them all right now. There may be people on this board that are intimately familar with the issue and quite qualified to speak to it. I'm not and as I've stated many times, that's when I keep quiet. I'm not evading your question...I just don't know because I don't have the facts.

[Supermag]

Or do I have to insult someone to get a reply?

Does anyone know how far apart an elephants ribs are? Are they clearly defined? I'm just wondering how a guy would do it. If they are 5" apart, and you can see them, hey I could thread and arrow through them without a problem at 30 yards. If you can't see the ribs, then I think you're taking the proverbial shot in the dark. Mind you, if you did sink an arrow into an elephent's big rib, it likely wouldn't kill it. I just wouldn't let one fly unless I could see the space between the ribs...just a thought...

Are these not good points? The only problem I have with Bill's feat is the logistics of actually putting a bolt between the ribs of the big beast without hitting one.

I've never hunted elephants so don't really know but I'm guessing they are further apart than those on a moose which no one seems to have an issue hunting with archery gear. There may be some info on the web somewhere....you might try a Google or Yahoo search????

[Rockymtnx]

.

[Copidosoma]

Wow, 8 pages....

I'm going to bury a comment in here and then hopefully never come back.

I'll stick with my original opposition to using a crossbow for elephant. I understand that others strongly disagree and I'm ok with that. Everybody has an ethical line at which something becomes distasteful. I don't expect anyone to have the same ones as me. I'm ok with that too.

I don't like it when people try to portray someone who takes an ethical stand against someone else as being anti-hunting. I'm certainly not. I don't follow any group 100% and will always state my right to criticize. If anyone thinks this weakens the fraternity or supports the antis then feel free to state your opinion. I won't agree and I don't have to.

I don't pretend to think that because I have a point of view/opinion or ethical stance, everyone or even anyone has to follow such guidelines or even agree. Doesn't change my stance. More information on the situation might (although not really in this case) and I'm always open to such things.

I keep trying to tell my wife to be more tolerant of other people. They do things differently because they see the world differently and that is alright. She has trouble with it sometimes because her logic and reason aren't followed by many others. I see that many people also struggle with this.

It is always funny that the longest threads end up being about ethics and values. I guess people have some pretty deep seated ideas on how the world is or should be and have a difficult time accepting the fact that others think differently.

I don't intend to be personal in this post. It is not directed at anyone. I've mostly enjoyed the discussion. I just won't be contributing to it anymore.

8 pages is enough.

[lazy ike]

We all hunt for different reasons and even mentally, five stages of hunting have been identified that most of us progress through in our hunting lives. Is it wrong for people to be in a different stage than you? Unfortunately, many hunters feel that way and what's what sickens me.

I probably Know less than 1% TJ but seems to me, most dudes going to africa mention minimum caliber; possibly becuase of dangerous game? I'm not sure if Elephant qualifies but as I said, I probably know less than 1%.

I've heard of the 5 stages but I'm not sure where industry rep, using a marginal weapon for a TV hunt fits on that scale? He represents the hunting industry not hunters. When there is a camera, brand indentification and industry money involved. I don't know any hunter who considers ratings, product placement or kill shot when he walks into the field.

I'm not saying that your friend would not have shot an elephant with an x-bow anyway but his position in the industry and the fact that some people feel he
"represents" hunters becuase he shot an Elephant for a show has a much merrit as suggesting that becuase Barry Bonds is a Black man, ALL Black men should support his choices and the reasons behind them.

[lazy ike]

209x50;83376]This is legal in NZ. Some people do it but most don't. Mostly the commercial meat hunters which is also legal there. I think you sell most peoples integrity short.

HUH? How does this prove or disprove or even include my veiws on others Integrity? I was simply making a logical conection based on supporting whatever the gov says is legal. I suspect you and most others would not support commercial meat hunts from helicopters so arguing with generalization like "if it's legal I support it!" Is hypocritical

It was looked down upon by the sport hunters there, it just wasn't sport in their opinion. The community regulates itself pretty well I think and you see that reflected here on this board.

I agree, a good example would be my veiws on this subject

People might say not for me and that is fine. It is when you decide your ethics are more important or righteous than the next fellow that I have the problem

This dude decided that his ethics were important and righteous enough to shoot an Elephant with an x-bow so this is not where you problem lies.

[lazy ike]

I can't believe I read this whole thread. Lot's of good points. I paticularly like what Lazy Ike had to say. Indeed all I can add is...

if you don't want to have to justify your self and your actions; you had better give up hunting. Suck it up boys, the big bad world is always going to call you and yes, even hunters are going to have something to say.

Consider Jim Zumbo for a moment... the man simply stated his opinion! I don't happen to agree with what he said but I know alot of hunters that do. We are a divided opinionated lot. Accept it and move on. Don't try and fabricate reasons for you actions.

Does it matter what happened to the Elephant meat? Sure, it's good not to waste it but I'm thinking if he really was concerned about the welfare of the villagers he would simply give them the x-bow and let them manage and eat their own Elephants and then he could donate the money he was going to spend on Aids drugs . He wasn't there to provide or save the village, there was no Altruistic aspect to his hunt.

If he was there on some journey of Self Discovery then why do I need to know about it? If you're doing the self discovery thing, it works best if you can be happy and confident in your findings without broadcasting them into 30 million homes. Thats called "Self Promotion". And 205, I didn't even see the show. I know, how could I possibly have an opinion if I didn't watch TV. What are you gonna do with these Internet armchair quarterbacks?

[mooseburger]

Originally Posted by zenstalker

thank you sheephunter, you are indeed correct... I work with wild tv and at times there just isn't enough time in the half hour to cover all the bases...the meat is indeed donated to local villages, and the mount given its do respect...cheers and keep up the good work with the outdoor quest.
DR

i watched wild tv at 0530 this am ( Bushinell outdoors ) and they were hunting ( hand guns ) pretty cool i thought, really enjoyed the show. then a guy on the show mentioned not "once but "twice where the meat went and even how much (190,000 lbs ) were "donated and to whom even....so your theory about not enough time, just went out the window!

I also watched "Outdoor Quest y'day afternoon and "guess who is one of their main "sponsers" yup you guessed it "EXCALIBUR X BOWS "

notice the last part of the above.... QUOTE:CHEERS AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK WITH THE "OUTDOOR QUEST. He was addressing Sheephunter in this statement"

So you can all draw your own conclusions from some of these posts.
i was attacked for stating my views of this particular hunt, and my view hasn't changed one bit, if any it has hardened my stand against it.
As far as one guy in here saying "if ya don't like it" "change the channel"
well all i got to say is "i pay for this channel" therefore i watch what i like, when i like.
If you don't like what ya read, in here..then go someplace else and read.
If he had hunted anything other than what he hunted i might have even purchased his product.
i know this will open a whole new can of worms but let the truth be known for what it is......................mooseburger

well all i got to say is "i pay for this channel" therefore i watch what i like, when i like.
If you don't like what ya read, in here..then go someplace else and read.

I think you are a little bitter maybe for the fact that this thread you started didnt go the way you wanted .I thought it was a real good thread great info i have a better understanding on things .
I dont care much for tv hunting shows i think most if not all are selling some product and hey Good for them everyone has a right to make a liveing.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm not sure I agree with you Oko and you'll know from my posts on this board that I'm a big supporter of all hunting that is legal and falls within the bounds of fair chase and ensures a clean kill. Certainly some types of hunting might not be my cup of tea but I can't think of one practice or species that falls within the above criteria that sickens me. .

Just to be clear, I never said it sickened me, just that that sort of hunt didn't do anything for me, isn't something I'd participate in. And who knows? that may change. I've found that my attitudes have modified as I've been more exposed to the hunting community generally, including the folks on this board.

Example number one... since my dog got chased by a coyote in a public park and another one stalked us while we were walking an urban pathway, they are now on me "Must try hunting sometime" list!

[TreeGuy]

This is from Duffy's thread on tolerance and communication:

If it takes 10 days, in a place that has so many elephants that they are becoming dangerous for the locals, and you need at least 3 back up guns, you are using the wrong weapon!
I have no problem with people shooting elephants if the population is so high. In fact I think every tribe should be given an elephant gun so the could help themselves when they need the food.

This is from a friend, NS, before anyone else nailed ya first!

The fact that it took 10 days means that they did great. It took me 3 seasons of archery on 160 acres seeing an average of 30 deer each time to shoot my first buck with a clean shot. Probably could have shot many previous to that, but wounding an animal is something I'm pretty paranoid of and have/will pass many animals because of, but that's me.

In order to position himself both ethically and safely with a crew of several people, I think is a major accomplishment to get done in 10 days. Like magpies, elephants are crafty buggers!

There is one thing to get a shot, but there is another to MAKE a shot. That's why it took 10 days.

Tree

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by mooseburger

i was watching wild tv last week and a guy, on there was hunting a bull elephant with a crossbow. although he was sussessfull it sickened me to watch it. i have hunted all my life and used to trophy hunt, so i understand most trophy hunters quests. this guy was joyus to say the least and was pondering whether or not he was the only guy to shoot this type of animal with a crossbow. there was no mention of where the animal was to end up. or whether the meat was to be used or not, or even if he took the head for a mount.
in the end all this did was leave a bad and bitter taste, and i thought if the people from peta were to see this.well we all would know where that would go.
on a more pleasent note, i would like to take the opportunity to wish every one a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year......From The Mooseburger Family

The same things were likely said about Fred Bear and Howard Hill, or the guys who hunt elaphantrs with handguns.
They hunt them with that stuff because they can, and are legally allowed to.
Would I? never with a crossbow, tha's for sure.
Elahpnats have never been on my " I would some day like to" list, but cape buffalo are,as are the watrer buffs in Australia.
But camels? nope, nowever, there are lots that do.
One person's beliefs do not always correspond with another's, same as catch and release fishing, or hunting with hounds.....
Cat

[NS Beagler]

Well TreeGuy, my friend, I haven't been nailed by anyone yet besides you
I am thinking you are comparing apples to oranges. Just because it took you three years chasing deer around, from your own admittance you can't sit in a stand for very long, you think it would be the same as hunting elephants?
These payed hunts have guides, spotters, runners and numerous others that are out looking for the chosen game. Trophy fees on an elephant are the highest of any other animal so I am sure they would be putting the hunter into lots. Especially if the elephant numbers in the region are as high as people have stated.
Elephants are "crafty buggers" and if it took 10 days "in order to position himself both ethically and safely with a crew of several people" he had the wrong weapon!
BTW just because I only have a few posts on here doesn't mean I haven't been reading this board for a long time. I just don't feel the need to wade into a debate head down ass up like some