ATA's Overstepping Bounds

[HighOnTheHills]

I don't know if the half of you have recognized the directions taken recently by our famous ATA...

i will say it right now, i DO NOT like it one bit!

With the recent mandate to push its Money Hungering Wants to poor trappers no wonder the profession is at a TOTAL LOSS. Lets examine it together; so far:

- made it mandatory to submit our new hirelings/interests to a Very Expensive weekend long course that we all know trappers will have a heck of a time to financially recover from 'trapping';
- attempt to dictate to long running Experienced trappers how to operate, gather information and turn in said info of their registered lines with hopes of removing less productive trappers from the picture;
- outright block and tackle the market of traplines by enforcing new Relinquishment Rules to passing one's line down to a successor(buyer);
- constantly collude with the interests of non-trapping industries and take their side over the trappers;
- outright undermining the Long well established trapping history Alberta has had from tradition;
- not taking a stance on whether trapping is in fact a Profession in Alberta vs simply an Americanized version of trapping being 'just a hobby';
- meanwhile letting trappers get used and abused by other industries and government in submitting to their wants over Nature's needs; and
- expecting the trappers to 'foot the bill' without proper compensation in efforts, knowledge, experience, etc

At the rate we are going... there will be no trapping as the admins seems uninterested in working With trappers as opposed to Against. The market is lower than ever, the running costs are ever rising, other industries don't want us to advocate being Stewards of the Land, non trappers(hunters and outdoor recreationalists) are calling us 'favored', there are more&more anti uneducated groups (environmentalists) meddling in our affairs that are by the way being paid and supported by other non trapping industries, we got "trappers" who take sides based on their paychecks' writers as opposed to Mother Nature and the professionalism around trapping is dropping like a rock.

WAKE UP TRAPPERS... WAKE UP or YOUR HARD EARNED EFFORTS WILL ALL BE FOR NOT!

[Brian Bildson]

It lives. Like Wiley coyote just can't kill the beast Another one post wonder

[moose maniac]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

It lives. Like Wiley coyote just can't kill the beast Another one post wonder

Likely been here before I would say, there is still a handfull of old very sour types on here who figure the ata is out to get us.

[Torkdiesel]

I'm actually pretty impressed with the ATA as of late. Although this summer when the first changes were shoved down our throats I was less then impressed that they weren't even consulted and appeared to not even be a consideration for our government.
But they sure have seemed to go to bat for us and in short order got that trash overturned and put on hold. Now they've negotiated a more then fair interim process and I'm hoping the final policy looks pretty similar.
We all want Traplines used and unless somebody goes to an aweful great length to just have a cabin this will do it.

They certainly have my vote right now. Hopefully we will all come out on top in the end.

[Running Bear]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I'm actually pretty impressed with the ATA as of late. Although this summer when the first changes were shoved down our throats I was less then impressed that they weren't even consulted and appeared to not even be a consideration for our government.
But they sure have seemed to go to bat for us and in short order got that trash overturned and put on hold. Now they've negotiated a more then fair interim process and I'm hoping the final policy looks pretty similar.
We all want Traplines used and unless somebody goes to an aweful great length to just have a cabin this will do it.

They certainly have my vote right now. Hopefully we will all come out on top in the end.

X2
He is definitely high on whatever hill he is on. Good old home grown.

[sourdough doug]

Highonthehill or high on whatever is just that ...whatever...however it is an opinion and he should not be scared off or put down just for that. There has been far to much bullying and putting down, by the followers, here for years now. HOTH may have his 1st post but maybe he has more.. that does not mean he has had his head in the sand all the time he wasn't here. There are too few regulars who still call a spade a spade. Hopefully, this trapper forum does not become like CNN and there are days it is.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

Highonthehill or high on whatever is just that ...whatever...however it is an opinion and he should not be scared off or put down just for that. There has been far to much bullying and putting down, by the followers, here for years now. HOTH may have his 1st post but maybe he has more.. that does not mean he has had his head in the sand all the time he wasn't here. There are too few regulars who still call a spade a spade. Hopefully, this trapper forum does not become like CNN and there are days it is.

I've never been one to hold back on anything, and I'm not starting now either.

I'm impressed at what they've been able to do with this

[expedition]

I think high on the hill wrote ata when alberta environment is what he should have wrote. the ata does not set regulation the government does. I applaud the ATA for there hard and sometimes thankless efforts on behalf of all trappers. Please join the ATA and listen to what they are saying . I know they are listening to all of us.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I'm impressed at what they've been able to do with this

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but......

What about the proposed changes impresses you? This whole fiasco was initiated by a past ATA President and an ATA Director in a meeting with the Deputy Minister......That is documented. I suppose that if you believe that the Biologists pulled the Transfer of Trapline Ownership policy out of thin air this would seem like a great accomplishment, but do you believe that is what happened? The bottom line is that now that the dust has settled, there is more restrictions on the transfer of traplines. You didn't gain anything, you still lost, just not as much as you would have if people didn't scream bloody blue murder.

As far as yet another mandatory course for Trappers, who is benefiting from that? The widow that only wants to sell the assets on the line that she just wants to sell? Look at that fella that commented on the other thread......Trapping for ten years, a junior partner and a senior partner for the past six years. He now has to take a new Trapper training course to ensure that he knows how to trap? Total garbage. It serves no purpose but to generate revenue for the ATA and the private trapping school that one of the AEP Fur Team members owns.

[Marty S]

Regardless of the problem, almost always, the best thing you can do if you have a problem with somebody, and/or especially if you think you have a problem with somebody is to go and talk directly with that somebody face to face. That way you surely will have a very clear view of what is exactly happening and you won't mistakenly believe some foregone conclusions of what may be, or may not be correct.

First and foremost, you might be able to resolve with that person, in this case group, and impart your wisdom/solution to that said person/group. However, if your foregone conclusions are inaccurate, then that person/group would be able to educate you with what is all involved and at stake; the neat thing about that being then we don't go off and make inaccurate statements to the whole world based on potentially false perceptions and flawed information.

(Notice I didn't say you did anything wrong)

The association is made up of people who volunteer their time, energies, etc. The trappers of Alberta need people who will do that on our behalf. Nobody else is jumping up and down trying to take away this task from these people. Please do, when they do good things, man up and and thank them for their work, often hard work for all they do for the trappers in this province, because there are special interest groups and industry that would like to steam roll us and our industry. Nobody else is doing it for us.

If you have better ideas, please do get involved with the association and take an elected position, and see to your responsibility of leading the charge in Alberta with those better ideas.

I don't believe the internet is the place to resolve our differences on such matters. Regardless of the issue, our adversaries will take advantage of us and what we post.

[Alberta_yote]

Originally Posted by HighOnTheHills

I don't know if the half of you have recognized the directions taken recently by our famous ATA...

i will say it right now, i DO NOT like it one bit!

With the recent mandate to push its Money Hungering Wants to poor trappers no wonder the profession is at a TOTAL LOSS. Lets examine it together; so far:

- made it mandatory to submit our new hirelings/interests to a Very Expensive weekend long course that we all know trappers will have a heck of a time to financially recover from 'trapping';
- attempt to dictate to long running Experienced trappers how to operate, gather information and turn in said info of their registered lines with hopes of removing less productive trappers from the picture;
- outright block and tackle the market of traplines by enforcing new Relinquishment Rules to passing one's line down to a successor(buyer);
- constantly collude with the interests of non-trapping industries and take their side over the trappers;
- outright undermining the Long well established trapping history Alberta has had from tradition;
- not taking a stance on whether trapping is in fact a Profession in Alberta vs simply an Americanized version of trapping being 'just a hobby';
- meanwhile letting trappers get used and abused by other industries and government in submitting to their wants over Nature's needs; and
- expecting the trappers to 'foot the bill' without proper compensation in efforts, knowledge, experience, etc

At the rate we are going... there will be no trapping as the admins seems uninterested in working With trappers as opposed to Against. The market is lower than ever, the running costs are ever rising, other industries don't want us to advocate being Stewards of the Land, non trappers(hunters and outdoor recreationalists) are calling us 'favored', there are more&more anti uneducated groups (environmentalists) meddling in our affairs that are by the way being paid and supported by other non trapping industries, we got "trappers" who take sides based on their paychecks' writers as opposed to Mother Nature and the professionalism around trapping is dropping like a rock.

WAKE UP TRAPPERS... WAKE UP or YOUR HARD EARNED EFFORTS WILL ALL BE FOR NOT!

Oh god a weekend course that teaches us ethics saftey and how to properly put up fur and help trappers in the long run. **** I paid for my course in 1 weekend with traps out. You make it sound like the course costs a million dollars.

[jdriedger]

Originally Posted by sourdough doug

Highonthehill or high on whatever is just that ...whatever...however it is an opinion and he should not be scared off or put down just for that. There has been far to much bullying and putting down, by the followers, here for years now. HOTH may have his 1st post but maybe he has more.. that does not mean he has had his head in the sand all the time he wasn't here. There are too few regulars who still call a spade a spade. Hopefully, this trapper forum does not become like CNN and there are days it is.

Very well said Doug. Very well said. To understand variables and dynamics in trapping takes an amount of intellectual capacity to understand topics which not all possess. Some decide to jump on the bandwagon of the ATA and not acknowledge reasonable points and arguments on any given topic. Conversations generate much more credibility and results when arguments are acknowledged to be 70-30, 60-40 or 50-50, for and against instead of simply flying the ATA flag.

[HunterDave]

Everything that HOTH mentioned is fall out from previous ATA administrations that the new administration is left to deal with. There has been a changing of the guard over the years, as recently as this year at the AGM. I don't believe in judging the Son for the sins of the Father so I don't hold the new administration responsible for any of the crap mentioned in the OP. They should be given a chance.

Hopefully the new administration focuses on trapping advocacy and not on bringing in more restrictions and mandatory trapping courses for trappers. I think that I'll leave it at that.

[Brian Bildson]

Doug I agree that a difference of opinions make for lively discussion. But come on...how about a bit of credibility first.

A person comes on a forum for the first time and throws out obvious inflamatroy remarks? How do you spell troll?

Also Doug you don't seem to like it when someone (me!) stands up and challenges your opinions. All of a sudden we're bullies?

Your opinion of the ATA has been obvious ever since you started posting. So no surprise you're looking for allies. Too bad this time its a troll.

[HunterDave]

Credibility by post count, I love it!

Let me get this right, the OP is just a troll because he only has one post and Doug, who's been here since 2007, is just looking for allies because he encourages open discussion. Allies in what.....open discussion?

Troll or not I think that he sounds like he knows what's going on and I tried to understand his perspective. To me shills have a lot less credibility.

[Brian Bildson]

Where is he then Dave? Guess he just got bullied off. And Doug has complained about ATA from day one so yes I suspect he would enjoy an ally. I welcome Dougs views, just don't happen to agree with his position on ATA. And as a proud ATA member I'm going to support it and call BS if I think he's wrong. Just like he gets too do to my points as well. Now if someone can't back up their points with facts, including me, then it's up to those who read the posts to decide. Sometimes those who base arguments on personal opinions have difficulty defending them when called on it.

[Paskell]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

Where is he then Dave? Guess he just got bullied off. And Doug has complained about ATA from day one so yes I suspect he would enjoy an ally. I welcome Dougs views, just don't happen to agree with his position on ATA. And as a proud ATA member I'm going to support it and call BS if I think he's wrong. Just like he gets too do to my points as well. Now if someone can't back up their points with facts, including me, then it's up to those who read the posts to decide. Sometimes those who base arguments on personal opinions have difficulty defending them when called on it.

Looks like one good old boy is feeling a little worried! Better sell quick and cache in while you can.

[M shooter]

I am going to get some heat for this but I agree with the the original poster. I think the ata and the ab gov both had overreach. I know it's a provincial resource but there is some "private" property sold as assets which makes it more complicated. I also see trappers that use their RFMA as bargaining tools when they object to resource activity so unless the government is going to fix that system to then I think lines should be able to be bought and sold to whomever the holder wants to. Minimum standard of passing the test or taking the course and it should end at that.

Same as grazing leases, mineral leases, gravel pits on crown land etc etc

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Paskell

Looks like one good old boy is feeling a little worried! Better sell quick and cache in while you can.

Sell what quick ???? lol

[Paskell]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Sell what quick ???? lol

Only the assets and improvements, what else is there to sell? It's surprising you didn't know this.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Paskell

Only the assets and improvements, what else is there to sell? It's surprising you didn't know this.

Oh I know what you can sell !

I just found it laughable that you thought Brian better cache in while he could. I'm fairly certain after a lifetime of business dealings this wasn't the one he was counting on to retire lol

[Paskell]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Oh I know what you can sell !

I just found it laughable that you thought Brian better cache in while he could. I'm fairly certain after a lifetime of business dealings this wasn't the one he was counting on to retire lol

There; you just had your giggle for the day and I'm so happy "Brian" isn't dependent on his trapline for making a living but a couple hundred or more grand could help retirement. A lifetime of business dealings and trapping make quit a diversified "portfolio".

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Paskell

A lifetime of business dealings and trapping make quit a diversified "portfolio".

It certainly has for me !!!

Although I would say I'm closer to a half lifetime in all honesty. I'm still "growing" so to speak 😉

[H380]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I'm actually pretty impressed with the ATA as of late. Although this summer when the first changes were shoved down our throats I was less then impressed that they weren't even consulted and appeared to not even be a consideration for our government.
But they sure have seemed to go to bat for us and in short order got that trash overturned and put on hold. Now they've negotiated a more then fair interim process and I'm hoping the final policy looks pretty similar.
We all want Traplines used and unless somebody goes to an aweful great length to just have a cabin this will do it.

They certainly have my vote right now. Hopefully we will all come out on top in the end.

Came across this thread and hope you are right . I contacted them today concerning a licenceing matter and they were eager to help . let you all know how it turns out .