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06-23-2016, 07:34 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 23
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Pike - leader material
going out for some Pike / walleye this weekend, have braid on most of our reels from a saltwater trip last winter. With all the new materials (new from 30 years ago anyways) what are the current thoughts for leader material / knots / terminal tackle for the 'toothy creatures'.
Thanks in advance
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06-23-2016, 07:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 823
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My current pike set up is:
20lb sufix 832 mainline
50lb seaguar sts salmon fluorocarbon leader
Mustad Pro rigger ball bearing swivel with stainless steel coastlock snap
Usually running a swim style lure, inline savage, zombie maxx, or bass pro xps swimbait
Hope this helps
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06-23-2016, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,939
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I use titanium leaders mostly for pike. They are expensive compared to steel but last and last so in the end are actually cheaper than steel and don't kink.
Depending on what your doing will determine the pound test required. ie if your trolling or casting small lures a 30 lb test is fine. If casting large muskey lures esp with a bait cast reel then 80 - 100 lb test.
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06-23-2016, 09:49 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 365
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x2 on the titanium leader. Has the ball bearing swivel and snap built in so that's a definite plus. I used to use steel but the kinking bothered me. The titanium is thinner and seems to provide better action too. And I like the convenience. I use 12 inch.
I'm just using 15 lb mono in moss green. Millsboy thinks I'm nuts to be using mono and something of such a light lb test. So far I haven't had any breakoffs, but the setup is new and it's only caught small Pike from Chesterslough.
In the future I'll probably upgrade to a 20-30lb braid and keep the titanium leader.
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06-23-2016, 10:12 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Crowsnest Pass
Posts: 2,381
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Pike
X3 on titanium leaders. They work great, get the 7 strand ones.
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06-23-2016, 10:16 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gods Country
Posts: 1,706
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I've recently switched to 50lbs seaguar fluoro I've had two bite off of about 60 pike and I swear they can't see it as much as a wire leader, and it doesn't kink like wire either. Was working in Manitoba and those guys out there swore by that stuff for going after weary Muskie.
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06-23-2016, 10:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 365
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I should add: my setup is ONLY for Pike. Muskie, though in the same family as Pike, have entirely different behavior. But unless you're heading quite a ways East, I'm guessing you're not targeting them.
For Walleye I actually just use 15 lb braid with 10lb fluro leader connected to a swivel + snap. Over 50 Walleye caught and no breakoffs. That said, I do check my line for abrasion and if I see any I cut it off and retie. I had to do this a few times, but usually if you don't set too late the Walleye won't even have the line in their mouth and it'll just be the lure and swivel + snap.
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06-23-2016, 11:57 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 201
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I use mustad, fluorocarbon 130# leaders from the fishing hole, the fasttech or whatever it's called...attachment system is the best for attaching lures.
I will not waste money on titanium anymore after having one kink in 2 different locations.
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06-23-2016, 12:35 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 532
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30 pound power pro braid with a 50 pound seaguar fluoro leader for me. Have the best luck with buck tail inline spinners.
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06-23-2016, 01:04 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idaman
I use mustad, fluorocarbon 130# leaders from the fishing hole, the fasttech or whatever it's called...attachment system is the best for attaching lures.
I will not waste money on titanium anymore after having one kink in 2 different locations.
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I had a problem with some cheaper titanium leaders that came with cheap swivels. It was not the leader that broke but the swivel.
I now use primarily Finn-Tastic 7 strand leaders and even have one going into it's forth season (and that is summer and winter).
http://www.finn-tasticcanada.com/home.html
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06-23-2016, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,851
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I tie my own out of 80lb Fluorocarbon Leader Material and use high quality swivels and swivel snaps on these leaders.
There are countless threads on this topic on this forum with some great information.
Over the last 4-5 years, and probably hundreds if not thousands of pike (I fish quite a bit) I have NEVER had a failure like a bite or break off.
Fluorocarbon is nearly invisible, supple, strong, abrasion resistant, won't cut your hand, won't cut the pike up and it's easy to tie.
I will never use titanium or steel leaders again - there is newer technology out there and fluorocarbon leader material is a great example.
Just make sure it's fluorocarbon LEADER material not just regular fluorocarbon line - as there is a BIG difference.
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06-23-2016, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
I tie my own out of 80lb Fluorocarbon Leader Material and use high quality swivels and swivel snaps on these leaders.
There are countless threads on this topic on this forum with some great information.
Over the last 4-5 years, and probably hundreds if not thousands of pike (I fish quite a bit) I have NEVER had a failure like a bite or break off.
Fluorocarbon is nearly invisible, supple, strong, abrasion resistant, won't cut your hand, won't cut the pike up and it's easy to tie.
I will never use titanium or steel leaders again - there is newer technology out there and fluorocarbon leader material is a great example.
Just make sure it's fluorocarbon LEADER material not just regular fluorocarbon line - as there is a BIG difference.
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Where do you buy the 80lb? What brand do you use? I got my stuff at wholesale and they only had up to 50lb.
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06-23-2016, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 521
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Straight 60-80# fluorocarbon works well enough. I have only ever seen 1 fluoro leader fail (right after my friends said "I should probably change my leader"). I would tie this directly to your braid using albright or no-name knot. Depending on what you are fishing, it has the flexibility to knot to your desired set up (using a rapala loop for crankbaits, for example). You still have to check it for nicks and chips. PROS: flexible and easy. CONS: is the bottom 2' can get pretty nicked up after a day of fishing.
My preferred set up is based on my fly fishing leader (how I actually do most of my fishing). This is far more light-weight, but still strong enough to land 30lb pike. With small enough baits, you can pick up walleye and whitefish. Braid --(albright)-->4-6' 20# fluoro leader --(albright & UV knot cure)--> 1-2' 25# knot2kinky titanium single strand leader material --(uni knot)--> type 1 mustad fasatach clip. If you are fishing spoons, I might switch out the fasatach for a swivel clip. You can use any any trace, but single strand titanium is by far the best. It is super thin and does not kink.
PROS: I find it flexible enough for both casting and trolling (depends on the rod eyelets and your knot). Long-lasting. CONS: it is a lot of work over simply attaching a piece of fluoro or pre-manufactured leader. Hang-ups will break at the fasatch clip, but that is super simple to replace.
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06-23-2016, 01:33 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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Titanium or very minimum 40 lb fluoro leader material are your options for pike. Try them both see which one you prefer.
I'm a titanium guy for pike but will use fluoro for walleye.
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06-23-2016, 01:49 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millsboy79
Where do you buy the 80lb? What brand do you use? I got my stuff at wholesale and they only had up to 50lb.
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I'm pretty sure I just picked it up, off the shelf, at the Fishin' Hole but I have seen it at Wholesale before as well - I don't recall what brand they carry or what test it was - but I purchased my last few rolls at the fishin hole.
The leader material comes in a large diameter roll (like 6"-8" across) with maybe 25-50 yards on it and it says leader material. It's not in a little box like the other regular lines. It's also pretty pricey (compared to regular line) but not too bad.
I have used a few brands ..... here's an example ..........
http://www.thefishinhole.com/index.c...oduct&se=27553
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06-23-2016, 01:50 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
I tie my own out of 80lb Fluorocarbon Leader Material and use high quality swivels and swivel snaps on these leaders.
There are countless threads on this topic on this forum with some great information.
Over the last 4-5 years, and probably hundreds if not thousands of pike (I fish quite a bit) I have NEVER had a failure like a bite or break off.
Fluorocarbon is nearly invisible, supple, strong, abrasion resistant, won't cut your hand, won't cut the pike up and it's easy to tie.
I will never use titanium or steel leaders again - there is newer technology out there and fluorocarbon leader material is a great example.
Just make sure it's fluorocarbon LEADER material not just regular fluorocarbon line - as there is a BIG difference.
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Unfortunately I have had a couple of bite offs from my flouro leader material so now usually use the titanium.
I do have a number of flouro leaders tied up but now. If I use flouro I go with 100 to 130 pound test ones and only for more static presentations when I think the pike are being more finicky. That being said I have been doing a very rough test of titanium vs flouro on my tip-ups and quick strike rigs and have found them to be just about exactly equal while ice fishing. Some days it seems to be all flouro and the next all titanium.
I could be wrong here (probably am) but since seagar has been produing Flouro carbon since 1971 ( http://www.kureha.co.jp/en/business/...r/seaguar.html) and the patent for titanium leaders came out around 1995 ( http://www.google.com/patents/US5875585) I would say that the titanium is the newer technology. lol
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06-23-2016, 01:57 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Southern Alberta
Posts: 7,350
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I like and prefer Titanium leaders for soft water and fluorocarbon leaders for hard water.
But I have used both in soft water and hard water.
If fishing for pike I would not want to use less then 50 pound test if I can help it and I prefer 80.
edit: Pike can and have bit through even 80 fluorocarbon even though it is not common. Never heard of a pike biting through a titanium leader(ever).
__________________
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eat a snickers
made in Alberta__ born n raised.
FS-Tinfool hats by the roll.
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06-23-2016, 02:06 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 11,851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cube
Unfortunately I have had a couple of bite offs from my flouro leader material so now usually use the titanium.
I do have a number of flouro leaders tied up but now if I use flouro I go with 100 to 130 pound ones and only for more static presentations when I think the pike are being more finicky. That being said I have been doing a very rough test of titanium vs flouro on my tip-ups and quick strike rigs and have found them to be just about exactly equal while ice fishing. Some days it seems to be all flouro and the next all titanium.
I could be wrong here (probably am) but since seagar has been produing Flouro carbon since 1971 ( http://www.kureha.co.jp/en/business/...r/seaguar.html) and the patent for titanium leaders came out around 1995 ( http://www.google.com/patents/US5875585) I would say that the titanium is the newer technology. lol
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You can't be serious ...... just because the "patent" was filed in 1995 doesn't change the fact titanium, as a product, in wire form, has been around for well over 100 years. Plastics (like fluorocarbon) have not been. Fluorocarbon, without dispute, is newer technology.
Either way - doesn't matter really. My point was that Fluorocarbon presents some significant advantages that I like.
Some may make the argument that they get bite through - but I have never seen it myself. None of the people I fish with have either. I'm not saying it's not possible - but I will suggest it's quite uncommon (maybe rare).
I will also say - I had a few "discussions" (on this forum) with people who said fluorocarbon leader material "keeps getting bite offs" only to find out later (from the same person) they were using fluorocarbon line.
Others have not been able to tie a proper knot.
Others are using leader material too thin for my comfort ( I use 80lb for Pike ) and could see something like a 40lb material quickly knick up and fail.
There's a HUGE difference between the line and the leader material. And, I'd offer, that 80lb is the right thickness for Pike. I wouldn't recommend anything lighter.
I've had outstanding and consistent performance using fluorocarbon leader material as many others have as well.
If you like titanium ......... cool .......... fill your boots ....... use it.
I like fluorocarbon leader and I'm filling my boots and loving the way it performs. I can't understate the advantages.
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06-23-2016, 02:18 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by millsboy79
Where do you buy the 80lb? What brand do you use? I got my stuff at wholesale and they only had up to 50lb.
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It is important to look for leader material. They had 80# and 100# when I was there at Wholesale a few weeks ago. Berkeley Pro Spec is the brand that I use.
EDIT: I may have been at Calbelas. I visited both stores on the same day.
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06-23-2016, 02:58 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 23
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Wow - didn't expect so much passion
thanks to all for their input / advice.
We will put it to the test next week and report back on the results (assuming the slough sharks are biting!!).
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06-23-2016, 03:18 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 521
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This time, EZM, I am here to agree with you, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
You can't be serious ...... just because the "patent" was filed in 1995 doesn't change the fact titanium, as a product, in wire form, has been around for well over 100 years. Plastics (like fluorocarbon) have not been. Fluorocarbon, without dispute, is newer technology.
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This is incredibly disputable. Fluorocarbons were first synthesized in the early 1940s (World War 2). TiNi alloys were first discovered in 1959. The process of being able to extrude TiNi into wire did not happen until the 1980s. Ti-based alloy wire is a much newer technology.
Using your argument, since hydrocarbons have been synthesized since the Egyptians, fluorocarbons are a borderline ancient technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
Some may make the argument that they get bite through - but I have never seen it myself. None of the people I fish with have either. I'm not saying it's not possible - but I will suggest it's quite uncommon (maybe rare).
I will also say - I had a few "discussions" (on this forum) with people who said fluorocarbon leader material "keeps getting bite offs" only to find out later (from the same person) they were using fluorocarbon line.
Others have not been able to tie a proper knot.
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I have seen exactly one 80# fluoro leader fail, 25 seconds after the guy said "I should probably change my leader". It happened this spring after a spunky 7lb-er took his line over a sharp Canadian shield rock.
I have seen exactly one of my leaders fail because I did not properly knot the TiNi wire. I was fly casting. Line stopped. The hook kept flying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EZM
Others are using leader material too thin for my comfort ( I use 80lb for Pike ) and could see something like a 40lb material quickly knick up and fail.
There's a HUGE difference between the line and the leader material. And, I'd offer, that 80lb is the right thickness for Pike. I wouldn't recommend anything lighter.
I've had outstanding and consistent performance using fluorocarbon leader material as many others have as well.
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This is really important. It is important to leader material, not running line. My friend uses 60# and 80#, depending which spool he grabs first. He just changes the 60# more frequently. Since they are both expensive, the 80# is probably better bang-for-buck.
After a good amount of experimentation, I (mostly) agree with EZM, fluoro offers the easiest, most flexible, and most reliable dollar-for-dollar solution. If someone is the type of angler who likes to fuss over things for more specific applications, TiNi alloys will offer a wider breadth of solutions. For example, if you are cranking topwater baits/flies, 80# fluoro is heavy and bulky compared to a 25# single strand TiNi. In this case, you would probably better off using 20lb Mono leader (does not sink as fast) tied directly to 6-8" TiNi wire. But even fly fishing, topwater pike is less than 5% of your main action.
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06-23-2016, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Beaumont
Posts: 3,386
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I prefer a GOOD titanium leader. I fish the NWT every year and have had my leaders last for years and years. In fact some are probably 5 years old and have caught hundreds and hundreds of fish and probably over 25 fish over 20 lbs and maybe a hundred or more over 15lbs. I've NEVER had one break or have ever seen one break, they also do double duty on large lake trout too so I know they can take a beating. I have no problems paying $15 for a quality titanium leader.
Very rarely I've seen line break, even 50 or 80lb power pro. This can happen to line abrasion on rocks mostly, or the line hits the prop or a sharp part of the boat. Even then with a good line an expensive leader should last almost forever. I'm too lazy to tie my own so I haven't used fluorocarbon, some of my guests have and I have seen it fail but it's still pretty durable too. Get heavy stuff whichever way that you go you won't regret it.
__________________
The kill is the satisfying, indeed essential, conclusion to a successful hunt. But, I take no pleasure in the act itself. One does not hunt in order to kill, but kills in order to have hunted. Then why do I hunt? I hunt for the same reason my well-fed cat hunts...because I must, because it is in the blood, because I am the decendent of a thousand generations of hunters. I hunt because I am a hunter.- Finn Aagard
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06-23-2016, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Calgary
Posts: 823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scel
It is important to look for leader material. They had 80# and 100# when I was there at Wholesale a few weeks ago. Berkeley Pro Spec is the brand that I use.
EDIT: I may have been at Calbelas. I visited both stores on the same day.
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Must have been cabelas the guy at the desk said at wholesale said the 50# what the largest they had. Otherwise was the 40lb in the fly fishing section.
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06-23-2016, 05:28 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Gods Country
Posts: 1,706
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Since I switched to fluoro I've had way more hook ups, I've sight fished for them and noticed they aren't as picky when using fluoro as they are with wire leaders.
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06-24-2016, 09:09 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 526
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What kind of knot are you guys using on 80-100 pound fluorocarbon leader material. I used the uniknot which has stood up well, but it ends up on the side of my swivels which is a bit funny.
I just finished a 4 day pike/walleye fishing trip with 7 friends. I was the only one using fluorocarbon leaders (80 pound Berkeley ProSpec). The big pike weren't very aggressive and we're kind of lathargic. When it wasn't windy, we could see them in the shallows, but had a hard time getting them to bite. I think because of the fact the pike were being kind of finicky, the fluorocarbon leaders played a part in the fact that I caught the most fish amongst our group of 8 all 4 days and I caught by far the most pike over 10 lbs. the last day alone I caught 25 pike over 10 lbs and the next closest guy had 7 over 10 lbs.
I have had 2 bite off on the 80 lb fluorocarbon leader material leaders. I find they usually last about 100 fish or so before they are nicked up and I change them at that point before they break. I usually just put a new one on first thing in the morning. Mine only cost $2-3 each to make so I have no issue putting a new one on everyday.
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06-24-2016, 09:38 AM
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinjoels
What kind of knot are you guys using on 80-100 pound fluorocarbon leader material. I used the uniknot which has stood up well, but it ends up on the side of my swivels which is a bit funny.
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Canoe Man knot works about the best for heavy flouro for connecting to lure, snap link, or swivel.
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06-24-2016, 10:24 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinjoels
I have had 2 bite off on the 80 lb fluorocarbon leader material leaders. I find they usually last about 100 fish or so before they are nicked up and I change them at that point before they break. I usually just put a new one on first thing in the morning. Mine only cost $2-3 each to make so I have no issue putting a new one on everyday.
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$2-3 every day or even 2-3 days.
Or $8 indefinitely.
Just another reason I prefer titanium for leaders. They seem expensive but in the long term they are the cheapest option unless you are fishing in an area with lots of bad snags.
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06-24-2016, 11:04 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 532
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I'm certain I get more action with fluoro leaders. Plus the odd time something other than a pike will hit on a fluoro leader but I've never caught anything other than pike running a wire.
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06-24-2016, 11:34 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: West Edmonton
Posts: 5,174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pullings
I'm certain I get more action with fluoro leaders. Plus the odd time something other than a pike will hit on a fluoro leader but I've never caught anything other than pike running a wire.
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I've caught tons of walleye on titanium.
Lure choice is more important then leader when it comes to actually catching fish.
Of course fish can see a titanium leader but with big flashy crankbaits and spoons it matters very little. Not like you are going for a very life like finesse presentation...
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06-24-2016, 02:10 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,939
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet
A study has shown that fish can see Mono easier than Fluoro of the same poundage, so you can bet they can see Ti, NiTi and Steel leaders. Fish vision is generally as good as ours. Put all 3 in water and see which one you see less..
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Hi Jet would you have a reference so I could look that study up.
Thx
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