No more barbless hooks in Alberta?

[bush junkie]

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Didn't know this..

[slimjim]

This barbless law was brought in to make money, not save fish. Fish and wildlife officers needed a way to make easy boot money, therefore the barbless hook law. Its just that simple.

[bush junkie]

WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I did not know this!!!!

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by slimjim

This barbless law was brought in to make money, not save fish. Fish and wildlife officers needed a way to make easy boot money, therefore the barbless hook law. Its just that simple.

Where in the world did you ever hear that crap- or did you dream this up yopurself??!!
Cat

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by slimjim

This barbless law was brought in to make money, not save fish. Fish and wildlife officers needed a way to make easy boot money, therefore the barbless hook law. Its just that simple.

Actually not true. The truth is that Ralph Klein liked to go fishing. He however also loved fishing in northern Manitoba and while fishing there marveled at how many fish there were to catch.

He then noted that regs there were barbless. He then connected the dots to say that barbless means better fishing. He was not a biologist and did not add in any causal relationship between location and fishing pressure.

He then came back to Alberta and mandated barbless to the F&W minions. They in turn put it in motion to a large number of professional complaints and quiet protests.

This has nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with science. Everything to do with Klein's good hearted yet misguided intentions.

[jeffrey929]

According to a letter I received from the ESRD, up until September 22, 2011, federal legislation prohibited the use of barbed hooks, and Alberta's Fishing regulations followed that legislation... The ESRD is currently working with the Government of Canada to determine the appropriate next steps as the Dept. of Fisheries and Oceans has amended the legislation to allow barbed hooks

[lannie]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Actually not true. The truth is that Ralph Klein liked to go fishing. He however also loved fishing in northern Manitoba and while fishing there marveled at how many fish there were to catch.

He then noted that regs there were barbless. He then connected the dots to say that barbless means better fishing. He was not a biologist and did not add in any causal relationship between location and fishing pressure.

He then came back to Alberta and mandated barbless to the F&W minions. They in turn put it in motion to a large number of professional complaints and quiet protests.

This has nothing to do with money. Nothing to do with science. Everything to do with Klein's good hearted yet misguided intentions.

There are several variations of that Ralph Klein story. There is one where Klein is fishing for salmon fishing in BC, or pike in the north, or a guided trip on the Bow where Klein asked the guide what would make fishing in Alberta Better. I think there probably is a thread on every forum in Canada addressing the Barb less thing and the Alberta Based ones all have variations of the Klein story.

[braggadoe]

if you think that barbed hooks don't affect fish mortality. please bury a barbed hook in/trough your own lip, and a barbless hook. report back which one comes out easier.

[deanmc]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

if you think that barbed hooks don't affect fish mortality. please bury a barbed hook in/trough your own lip, and a barbless hook. report back which one comes out easier.

Seems like a reasonable comparison.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

if you think that barbed hooks don't affect fish mortality. please bury a barbed hook in/trough your own lip, and a barbless hook. report back which one comes out easier.

Ill do it if you do it. But you first But if you survive I wont have to do it!

[JohninAB]

Hope they get the barbless regulation back in force ASAP.

[huntsfurfish]

Not happenin

[slimjim]

Let me as a fisherman have the choice, on which hook to use.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

if you think that barbed hooks don't affect fish mortality. please bury a barbed hook in/trough your own lip, and a barbless hook. report back which one comes out easier.

There have been poorer comparisons and steamier piles, however this one holds its own.

What it comes down to, is it wont kill the idiot in your poor example, and it wont kill the fish in reality.

Maybe we should design policy based on evidence?

The science is clear, if you are worried about fish mortality, use a barbed or barbless hook of your choice, but make sure to leave your camera at home.

[bowness]

Originally Posted by McLeod

This issue will be discussed further at the Roundtable this weekend
in Red Deer

How did that go?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

if you think that barbed hooks don't affect fish mortality. please bury a barbed hook in/trough your own lip, and a barbless hook. report back which one comes out easier.

It is not the hook that damages the fish per se but the guy/gal handling the fish who doesn't know what he is doing....the ones who hold them tight our of the water and sqeeze them so they make a croaking noise or haul them into the bottom of the boat to thrash.....or do their best Joe Montana impersonation for their buddies on the lake....these people have killed more fish than a barbed hook.

I think the barbless rules were brought in as a band-aid to people who have no idea how to handle fish properly.....

.....you know how it works punish everyone to get to the few.

LC

[braggadoe]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

It is not the hook that damages the fish per se but the guy/gal handling the fish who doesn't know what he is doing....the ones who hold them tight our of the water and sqeeze them so they make a croaking noise or haul them into the bottom of the boat to thrash.....or do their best Joe Montana impersonation for their buddies on the lake....these people have killed more fish than a barbed hook.

I think the barbless rules were brought in as a band-aid to people who have no idea how to handle fish properly.....

.....you know how it works punish everyone to get to the few.

LC

you are 100% correct. removing which hook, is less stressful on the fish? barbed or barbless? it's not rocket science.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

you are 100% correct. removing which hook, is less stressful on the fish? barbed or barbless? it's not rocket science.

Up for the challenge yet

Seriously though, not "rocket science", but the science indicates "no significant difference".

[Soon2flypat]

90% of us know how to handle fish. I agree that the law is for those who don't know how or don't care. And it sucks that we have to pay for their stupidity. However, I'd rather have the law in place to protect the fish from these people. Also, if you know how to play a fish, you shouldn't really have an issue with using a debarbed hook anyway. I'd argue that you're catch rate will not change dramatically. Just my two cents.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by braggadoe

you are 100% correct. removing which hook, is less stressful on the fish? barbed or barbless? it's not rocket science.

No doubt a barbless hook is easier to remove...BUT if you know what you are doing a barbed one is not that difficult to remove either.

If someone is afraid to bait a hook or touch a fish and they are old enough to drive....maybe fishing is not their thing

LC

[McLeod]

[QUOTE=Soon2flypat;1931532]90% of us know how to handle fish. QUOTE]

I would strongly disagree with that..

I would also suggest that 90 per cent of those fishing our rivers and streams couldn't pass the fish I.D. test..

[Soon2flypat]

McLeod, you're probably right. I was being pretty generous by saying 90%. To me fishing is strictly a sport and I hate keeping a fish out of water any longer than it has to be. I love the challenge of the fight and losing a fish because it slipped off the hook is ok with me. The best fishing stories come from the ones that got away.

I have no problem with anybody who wants to keep some fish for the table within the regulations, as long as they remember to respect the fish that they put back so others can enjoy them too. This seems to me to be the debate between those for and those against barbed hooks.

[recce43]

well im not going to pinch barbs down on any new gear if they want barbless hooks here then they should only sell barbless hooks

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Soon2flypat

McLeod, you're probably right. I was being pretty generous by saying 90%. To me fishing is strictly a sport and I hate keeping a fish out of water any longer than it has to be. I love the challenge of the fight and losing a fish because it slipped off the hook is ok with me. The best fishing stories come from the ones that got away.

I have no problem with anybody who wants to keep some fish for the table within the regulations, as long as they remember to respect the fish that they put back so others can enjoy them too. This seems to me to be the debate between those for and those against barbed hooks.

No, I think you've missed the point. Most people are concerned that the policy is not supported by the science.

I caught a few thousand fish on barbed hooks this ice season, and there was no notable difference in mortality compared to the season before it.

[mszomola]

With the way albertans like to keep walleye , does it really matter barbed or not ?


I moved back home to Ontario last august and i recall having to replace all my hooks with barbed ones. It was stupid lets face it. Sure a case could be made for barbless , you could also just stop fishing altogether because thats proven 100% effective in helping fish populations as well.... but at some point between the poaching, the bucket anglers, the fish and wildlife folks who ticket seldom and the particularly short fishing season, using a barb or not won't make an impact at all.


The point most are missing is , as much as you wish the fishing was that great , and how much you wish bass could exsist in your lakes and the over blown rhetoric of fanatical old timers in AB trying to lay their rather dated wisdom along to anglers .... the fact is you wont improve much on whats there....


if you live in AB and you like to fish , get really good at fly fishing , learn to ice fish and have second hobby like skiing because most of your time will be spent in the snow.


There is no barbless law in ontario and its a fishing mecca , sure we have more lakes , we also have much much more fishing pressure ontop of the similar recklessness of the recreational watersport folk.


time till kick the dead horse in the nuts again, now im contributing to the same bs discussion gezzzzzz....

[Soon2flypat]

BeeGuy, maybe I did miss the point, or maybe not. I don't think we need a science to prove that it is slightly easier to remove a barbless hook. The point I was trying to make was if you're a c & r fisherman I don't think that there's a point in using barbed hooks. A barbed hook makes a bigger hole in the lip and takes longer to remove. Basic rule, if you can't hold your breath for the length of time fish is out of water, it's too long.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by Soon2flypat

BeeGuy, maybe I did miss the point, or maybe not. I don't think we need a science to prove that it is slightly easier to remove a barbless hook. The point I was trying to make was if you're a c & r fisherman I don't think that there's a point in using barbed hooks. A barbed hook makes a bigger hole in the lip and takes longer to remove. Basic rule, if you can't hold your breath for the length of time fish is out of water, it's too long.

You don't need science.

I don't need legislation.

If you are a C&R fisherman, like all of us most of the time, leave your camera at home.

Can you honestly say that you can see a bigger hole when you use barbed hooks?

Barbed or barbless, there should be no hole to speak of 95%+ of the time.

[huntsfurfish]

quote
"Soon2flypat
90% of us know how to handle fish. I agree that the law is for those who don't know how or don't care. And it sucks that we have to pay for their stupidity. However, I'd rather have the law in place to protect the fish from these people. Also, if you know how to play a fish, you shouldn't really have an issue with using a debarbed hook anyway. I'd argue that you're catch rate will not change dramatically "

OK a poor fish handler is a poor fish handler. Barbless hooks are not going to save his fish. So why have it?

And neither will the mortality rate

[BeeGuy]

I only fish barbless because barbs are unethical and kill all the fish.

BTW check out these videos of me manhandling cutties and bulls for 5 min with no net and all the sweet still shots we got.

[trooper]

BeeGuy, How is barbs unethical if I'm not doing C&R? I fish to eat period. I refuse to fish streams and bodies of water that harbor a protected species. I only fish put and take bodies of water. So I ask you again, what is unethical about eating your catch??
That's what fishing was invented for