Against Seperation from Canada

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac

I am not worried about reproductive rights in Canada. I would be, however, if separation occurred. Of course, I live in southern Alberta, and it’s a bit of a different world down here. I would hope the urban centres would be able to water the fundamentalism down, but it would really depend on so many things when the new new country was founded.

And yes, Klein was premier for one year of marriage equality - because it was federal law. Klein and the conservative government at the time absolutely opposed it. So it would be ridiculous to think that the possibility of a stand-alone Alberta would protect the same rights and freedoms that Canada does.

How many Alberta conservatives that live here now do you think would actively vote to ensure both of these rights remained protected? How do you envision an Alberta charter would be developed? In consultation? Democratically? By elected officials? By referendum?

I don’t have any confidence that these would be protected post separation.

And of course, there are plenty of other issues too, but these two are forefront in my mind given the current climate of politics in the south here.

How do you think that our current charter was developed? It wasn't by democracy or consultation with the public or by referendum. Did Trudeau consult us before buying off the media, or doing away with our freedom of speech? We live in a divided country, with a racist charter, and the current government continues to grow that division at every opportunity, by favoring certain people, while ignoring others.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by coachman

The comment why don't you leave bugs me, and I will tell you why. My grandparents where in Alberta before it was Alberta. I have great grandparents that where in Canada before it was Canada. Both sides of my wives family have been in Alberta for more that 100 years. So I think maybe we will stick around and try to change it back to a country that we all can be proud of.

ask not what the country can do for you but rather what can you do for your country...forget separating or becoming another's nations cash cow....if you just breath...maybe travel out of country not to a all inclusive resort you will see we have it good then on your way back start at PEI and travel across the country, see the real Canada not the political side but the people both urban and rural then you will see the true Canada built on hard working very nice people...politics and religions get people all wonky...

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

ask not what the country can do for you but rather what can you do for your country...forget separating or becoming another's nations cash cow....if you just breath...maybe travel out of country not to a all inclusive resort you will see we have it good then on your way back start at PEI and travel across the country, see the real Canada not the political side but the people both urban and rural then you will see the true Canada built on hard working very nice people...politics and religions get people all wonky...

X2

[CMichaud]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50739203

The people of Bougainville, an island group in Papua New Guinea, have voted overwhelmingly for independence.

Voters had two options - more autonomy, or full independence. Of the 181,000 ballots, almost 98% were in favour of independence.

The referendum was approved by the Papua New Guinea government, but the result is non-binding.

Nevertheless, the landslide victory will put pressure on PNG to grant Bougainville independence.

The islands have a population of around 300,000, and 206,731 people enrolled to vote in the referendum.

[oldgutpile]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

ask not what the country can do for you but rather what can you do for your country...forget separating or becoming another's nations cash cow....if you just breath...maybe travel out of country not to a all inclusive resort you will see we have it good then on your way back start at PEI and travel across the country, see the real Canada not the political side but the people both urban and rural then you will see the true Canada built on hard working very nice people...politics and religions get people all wonky...

Does it really matter what I can do for MY country? All the decisions are being made in the Laurentian zone, and being forced down my throat.
What my fight for independence means is a fight to MAINTAIN this wonderful land that you speak of from sea to sea. Yes, we have it so much better than many (most) countries in the world, and I would like to see that status quo upheld here at home. The eastern mandate is a financial tragedy, that will eventually bankrupt this country, and I defy anyone to state otherwise that it has ever been about the good of the people, but rather the games the politicians play to garner votes and line their own pockets. When it comes time to pay the piper, I want myself, my children, and grandchildren to still have some quality of life, unlike many of these countries you preach about.
We must come to face the reality that east and west obviously have different values, and these differences are creating a huge rift in this country. Let's face the facts, and like an ugly divorce, bite the bullet and go our own ways.

[huntsfurfish]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

ask not what the country can do for you but rather what can you do for your country...forget separating or becoming another's nations cash cow....if you just breath...maybe travel out of country not to a all inclusive resort you will see we have it good then on your way back start at PEI and travel across the country, see the real Canada not the political side but the people both urban and rural then you will see the true Canada built on hard working very nice people...politics and religions get people all wonky...

Well said!

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

Does it really matter what I can do for MY country? All the decisions are being made in the Laurentian zone, and being forced down my throat.
What my fight for independence means is a fight to MAINTAIN this wonderful land that you speak of from sea to sea. Yes, we have it so much better than many (most) countries in the world, and I would like to see that status quo upheld here at home. The eastern mandate is a financial tragedy, that will eventually bankrupt this country, and I defy anyone to state otherwise that it has ever been about the good of the people, but rather the games the politicians play to garner votes and line their own pockets. When it comes time to pay the piper, I want myself, my children, and grandchildren to still have some quality of life, unlike many of these countries you preach about.
We must come to face the reality that east and west obviously have different values, and these differences are creating a huge rift in this country. Let's face the facts, and like an ugly divorce, bite the bullet and go our own ways.

you missed my point....politics and religion make people go wonky and they make the news but for the most part we Canadiens are good people so separating is not the answer....got buddies out east that shake their heads at the crap their so called leader spew but carry on enjoying Canada....traveling all over hunting, fishing, camping etc with no borders other than the ones saying welcome and come again etc....kinda like it that way,,,,I ain't no preacher to no divorce...I see no huge rift just politicians doing what they do best....lying, cheating, backstabbing and getting the simpletons all bent outa shape with their BS...that's the crap that makes the news.

[lmtada]

Boris and Conservatives won in Britain. Brexit is full steam ahead. Wexit is next. Revenge for Democracy...
Do the words in this report sound familiar?

https://youtu.be/t-waxdNdRHQ

Originally Posted by CMichaud

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-50739203

The people of Bougainville, an island group in Papua New Guinea, have voted overwhelmingly for independence.

Voters had two options - more autonomy, or full independence. Of the 181,000 ballots, almost 98% were in favour of independence.

The referendum was approved by the Papua New Guinea government, but the result is non-binding.

Nevertheless, the landslide victory will put pressure on PNG to grant Bougainville independence.

The islands have a population of around 300,000, and 206,731 people enrolled to vote in the referendum.

[oldgutpile]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

you missed my point....politics and religion make people go wonky and they make the news but for the most part we Canadiens are good people so separating is not the answer....got buddies out east that shake their heads at the crap their so called leader spew but carry on enjoying Canada....traveling all over hunting, fishing, camping etc with no borders other than the ones saying welcome and come again etc....kinda like it that way,,,,I ain't no preacher to no divorce...I see no huge rift just politicians doing what they do best....lying, cheating, backstabbing and getting the simpletons all bent outa shape with their BS...that's the crap that makes the news.

The things that bother me are not just media and political hype. The facts are, that we ARE on the verge of 50% taxation, immigration IS totally out of control and unregulated, we WILL be paying carbon tax, which is a wealth redistribution/tax scam to garner votes, and to help ol' sparkle socks get a seat with the UN.
The simpletons are already in control of the ship, they have drank the koolaid, and we're heading for a disaster.
I agree 100% that there are good people from east to west in this country. Been there, shook hands, and would gladly have them in my home to repay the hospitality. But, unfortunately the simpletons seem to be intent on steering us into disaster and I want to jump ship before it could possibly get worse.

[Rhino81]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

The things that bother me are not just media and political hype. The facts are, that we ARE on the verge of 50% taxation, immigration IS totally out of control and unregulated, we WILL be paying carbon tax, which is a wealth redistribution/tax scam to garner votes, and to help ol' sparkle socks get a seat with the UN.
The simpletons are already in control of the ship, they have drank the koolaid, and we're heading for a disaster.
I agree 100% that there are good people from east to west in this country. Been there, shook hands, and would gladly have them in my home to repay the hospitality. But, unfortunately the simpletons seem to be intent on steering us into disaster and I want to jump ship before it could possibly get worse.

im with you on the jumping ship before the disaster. President trump sounds a lot better than prime minister douch bag

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

The things that bother me are not just media and political hype. The facts are, that we ARE on the verge of 50% taxation, immigration IS totally out of control and unregulated, we WILL be paying carbon tax, which is a wealth redistribution/tax scam to garner votes, and to help ol' sparkle socks get a seat with the UN.
The simpletons are already in control of the ship, they have drank the koolaid, and we're heading for a disaster.
I agree 100% that there are good people from east to west in this country. Been there, shook hands, and would gladly have them in my home to repay the hospitality. But, unfortunately the simpletons seem to be intent on steering us into disaster and I want to jump ship before it could possibly get worse.

I agree with you about everything but the taxation bit. I believe we are already exceeding 50% taxation today. If you include all taxes on all levels and Levies, I am quite confident the government earns more than I do for my labours. Especially with things like charging me GST on a carbon "levy", that I pay for, with the money the already taxed me on, when I earned it.

I'm so close to throwing in the towel and becoming a taker. The apathy is horrendous. I, and many like me, will eventually stop carrying the rest.

[lmtada]

More Taxes coming as of January #1. Liberals gut the rich and middle class. Taxes coming for real estate.

https://www.greaterfool.ca/2019/12/13/cher-bill/

“The ink was barely dry on young Scheer’s take-this-job-&-shove-it letter when news on what the T2 Libs have in store for this confused and snowy land emerged. Finance guy Bill Morneau’s ‘mandate letter’ was released Friday – essentially the instructions given to the main economic minister from the PMO. This is an outline of what we can expect in the coming budget.

So sit, clutch some furniture or hold your dog’s paw as you proceed. Under no circumstances should the following be read alone. The mandate:

Defang the Stress Test.
Remember the dumbest plank in the Tory election platform? Yes, to gut the mortgage stress test as the housing lobby had been begging for a year. The Cons promised to ‘modify’ it if elected, and were immediately hugged by the Canadian Real Estate Association. Realtors argued that by reducing the amount of money first-time buyers (who have no money) can borrow the test was depressing sales and prices. Properties were becoming slightly (…oh, the horror…) more affordable as a result. Commissions were down. Mortgage lenders were sleeping in their vans.

Well, it’s coming. Morneau’s been instructed to “review and consider recommendations from financial agencies related to making the borrower stress test more dynamic.” That does not mean making the test harder. Just the opposite. And so the political manipulation of the market continues. Combined with cheapo borrowing rates plus the shared-equity mortgage, it’s clear Ottawa is trying to recreate the Spring of 2017. Dog help us.

Slap on a National V&S Tax.
Soon the country will have its first pan-Canadian federal real estate tax – another order just given to Bill. The annual ‘vacancy and speculation’ tax will initially be set at 1% of a property’s value each year, to be paid by any investor not resident in Canada. It’s another example of what this pathetic blog has been yammering about recently as real estate turns into the new new thing for governments to Hoover. Of course this will do nothing to make houses and condos cost less, especially when the government is about to geld the stress test and increase demand.

But the basis of successful politics is “us vs. them” and that requires an enemy. One that doesn’t vote is even better. Meantime any national law of this nature involves tracking everybody’s activities. Like BC. With fangs.

Whack the Rich.
Trudeau’s first big moves in the last mandate were to gut the TFSA contribution limit and bring in a new tax bracket to vacuum $2 billion more a year from high-income earners. Not the super-rich in terms of assets, like Bill Morneau and his billionaire wife, but those nasty doctors, lawyers, vets, surgeons, dentists and small business guys making two hundred grand a year and employing people. Well, there’s more coming.

The new luxury tax, for example. If you buy a boat or a car or an RV worth more than a hundred grand a fat 10% tax will be applied to the price. That’s on top of HST, and you pay the bill in after-tax dollars. Just imagine what this is going to do for the recreation business.

Morneau has also been instructed to review “tax expenditures” for the purpose of “ensuring that wealthy Canadians do not benefit from unfair tax breaks.” So what are tax expenditures? Vehicles which reduce federal revenues, like TFSAs, RRSPs, RRIFs, LIRAs and RESPs. Also included are all the tax credits and breaks, from tuition to child care expenses, to principal residence capital gains exemption, age credit, basic personal exemption, interest deductibility etc. Oh yeah, plus the capital gains inclusion rate and dividend tax credit. Gulp. Oops, almost forgot – Morneau’s also been told to whack high-income people getting stock options form their established, ‘mature’ employers.

So there you go. Trudeaunomics in a nutshell. Pander to homebuyers by allowing over-borrowing and increased debt. Blame foreign dudes. Increase government spending and the river of red. Penalize successful people because it’s unfair they should have more than you. And rejoice that the guy who got the most votes was just nailed to a tree.” Garth Turner
2

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I agree with you about everything but the taxation bit. I believe we are already exceeding 50% taxation today. If you include all taxes on all levels and Levies, I am quite confident the government earns more than I do for my labours. Especially with things like charging me GST on a carbon "levy", that I pay for, with the money the already taxed me on, when I earned it.

I'm so close to throwing in the towel and becoming a taker. The apathy is horrendous. I, and many like me, will eventually stop carrying the rest.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

The things that bother me are not just media and political hype. The facts are, that we ARE on the verge of 50% taxation, immigration IS totally out of control and unregulated, we WILL be paying carbon tax, which is a wealth redistribution/tax scam to garner votes, and to help ol' sparkle socks get a seat with the UN.
The simpletons are already in control of the ship, they have drank the koolaid, and we're heading for a disaster.
I agree 100% that there are good people from east to west in this country. Been there, shook hands, and would gladly have them in my home to repay the hospitality. But, unfortunately the simpletons seem to be intent on steering us into disaster and I want to jump ship before it could possibly get worse.

Jump ship? Where ya swimming to? I wouldn't be too eager to float off to someplace cuz the place you end up might not be all that hospitable...ya could end up in a pot of potatoes and carrots....

[oldgutpile]

I apologize if my analogy was too much for you. The bonus is, it has ignited your creativity.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by oldgutpile

I apologize if my analogy was too much for you. The bonus is, it has ignited your creativity.

And I apologize for the for my inability to transcend traditional ideas or the comparison between the two....perhaps it has ignited the thread to create meaningful ideas.....a bonus...maybe....too much for some and not enough for others...

[NCC]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I agree with you about everything but the taxation bit. I believe we are already exceeding 50% taxation today. If you include all taxes on all levels and Levies, I am quite confident the government earns more than I do for my labours. Especially with things like charging me GST on a carbon "levy", that I pay for, with the money the already taxed me on, when I earned it.

I'm so close to throwing in the towel and becoming a taker. The apathy is horrendous. I, and many like me, will eventually stop carrying the rest.

Don't forget fuel tax, house taxes, school fees, vehicle registration, property tax, hotel tax, tire tax, etc and you're way north of 50%. I'm worried that by the time I die, my kids won't be able to afford the inheritance tax on the farm if I give it to them.

We're already paying over 50% tax and the federal and provincial governments are still racking up annual deficits, never mind the debt that they inherited. The population is aging and living longer, which is going to increase the load on social programs and healthcare and the energy sector and manufacturing are in decline, so many working class well paid jobs are leaving, along with the enormous property taxes that corporations pay. Government expenditures are going to keep going up and there will be fewer contributors and more takers, so there's only one way for taxes to go.

Our healthcare system doesn't financially break anyone, but many people suffer or die waiting for suitable care. In the US, those who have proper health insurance get excellent health care. Contrary to popular Canadian belief, American hospitals won't throw you on the street if you can't pay for emergency services.

Canada is a great country and Alberta is a great place to live, but there's room for improvement. My friends in Texas work half as many hours I do and have more disposable income. Unless our governments get their spending under control, the middle class is going to see a major decline in their quality of life. I was talking to a HD mechanic apprentice at RDC last week and five of his classmates have been informed that they won't have a job once this term is complete. 20-30 employees were just laid off around Rocky due to a merger between two oil companies. Alberta will never again be what it was, so the government needs to curb their spending and let us keep more of what we earn.

I hang out with a right wing crowd, and don't remember anyone ever talking about gay marriage or abortion while debating who should be in the legislature. I believe that discussion is nothing more than fear mongering by the lefties.

[MrDave]

Silly separatists think they are going to destroy my country without bloodshed. Better look at what the separatists did in Quebec in the 60's. FLQ is who you want to look at. Then think of who is going to start the fight.
But war is good for the economy isn't it. Go support Trump and help pay off that Trillion dollar debt he has amassed.