Evolution vs Creation

[Boogerfart]

It's awesome to see people behaving well enough for this thread to survive so long! I'd like to simply add that God and science can go hand in hand, it pains me to see people on both sides get so emotional that they can't stop and just think about what's being said for a moment. Far too many people form a opinion and then simply look for things to support it, this is true of both sides far too often... I'd encourage those on both sides to read Genisis with a more open mind and to remember some key things- this is the story of the JEWISH people, there's way more to the history of the planet, reading closely you'll notice other people groups repeatedly mentioned going right back to the time of Cain and Able, they couldn't of descended from Adam but the Bible clearly recorded there existance. The earliest parts of Genisis are Moses writhing down the oral traditions of the JEWISH people as he felt it was important to put in writing for the first time, who are we to argue what was meant by a day?
I was raised in a Protestant home but don't consider myself overly religious, I had a few native friends when I was young that made me realize there was clearly more to life than what we see on the surface, I have a very absolute faith in God, it's been proven to me over and over but in all honesty if you don't seek it or see it then there's not too much point in trying to explain it, we all need to put the search for truth first instead of just trying to prove a point, bashing someone who disagrees with you just makes them more defensive while making you look small minded.
I enjoy open discussion and hearing others opinions, diversity is key to our success as humans, just because I believe in intelligent design doesn't mean you must too, live and let live after all.

[guywiththemule]

How about a third option ? Space aliens and monkeys !! And I believe I`ll have a shot of tequilla !

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

A lot of those most horrific events have nothing to do with God. I do not think that even many of the horrific events recorded in the Bible were caused by God.

Yet not a sparrow falls to the ground without your father knowing.

Matthew 10:29

Grizz

[SlimChance]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I believe in micro evolution but not macro evolution. Believe in big bang theory and intelligent design theory but not darwinism.
The debate between all of these could fill a library.
The biggest problem with Darwinism is current biology science believes it as fact when it is a theory. In Darwin theory he also explains why it could not be possible truth and why it is a theory.
Now in Canada 10,000 + biologists are employed in Canada and there would be Zero job security if they announced they believe in intelligent design thus the majority of these people believe in some sort of mother earth theology.

I'm not going to wade too deeply into this thread but I think it's important to make a point here regarding the word theory and scientific literacy in general.

The scientific definition of theory refer to a comprehensive explanation that is supported by our current body of evidence.

A theory is not a guess or a hypothesis. It's an attempt to explain all our observations. Biologists don't believe in evolution, however they do accept it as the best explanation of evidence.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams

Yet not a sparrow falls to the ground without your father knowing.

Matthew 10:29

Grizz

Do not think I have come to bring peace on the earth: I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Gunslinger257

There is a difference between faith and religion.

[drhu22]

Originally Posted by Donkey Oatey

This can't end well.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Gunslinger257

I hesitate to reply and not be eloquent enough to make my point clear. My point is in our sinful nature we compete with one another trying to get one step ahead of our neighbour thus causing war. If my line of thought is in contrast to the truth please explain more.

In your first post I was responding to the part I put in bold. To me it seemed out of character with your signature verse.

I agree that getting one step ahead of our neighbor instead of doing our best for our neighbor is the cause of all sorts of problems including war.

When the slaves were delivered from their bondage and set free in the promised land they made a covenant with you know who, and were given instructions on how not to ever become enslaved again and this included not allowing the enslavement of their neighbors. The book shows that the people fell short on their end of the deal.

There is always a choice to live in the world that He created and loved or live in the world that we have created.

Someone else later said give us food today and no debt for tomorrow. The person who said that was executed by a government that did not condone forgiveness of debt.

I do not think that getting ahead because of your neighbors misfortune is not what the Creator ever intended.

Sorry for my rambling, but I got carried away because this thread has not been shut down

[raab]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

True for carbon.

However many others.

https://www.nature.com/scitable/know...hods-107924044

I smile that creationists never say time for God had no relative meaning as we understand it.

As such God theoretically could of been playing with Earth for billions of years...maybe even started the process off by patting us into a glowing ball...sending water rich rocks hurtling our way packed with amino acids, carbon etc. Then over time dabbled here...dabbled there...tossed a few rocks our way during intermission of a celestial soccer match. Then wanted the earth to warm up so sent us in for global warming purposes.

And how do they know that atmospheric conditions have remained constant or that the samples haven't been contaminated when doing these test? They seem to only find rocks that fit into their preconceived notion of what the earth's age should be, giving the researchers a bias. This despite different radioactive testing having different results for the same rock. Radioactive testing to determine the age of the earth is faulty for these reasons and would be laughed out of a court if you were using it to state your case.

Now whether the earth is 6000 years old I'm not sure, it could be 100,000. But I'd like an actual number that is put through stringent testing if I'm going to be told there's no other conclusion. It's my belief that the dating methods used are wrong and the earth is actually much younger then 4.5B year.

[grouse_hunter]

Originally Posted by ROA

I find it interesting that some of the greatest minds in physics are now starting to believe in a creator, perhaps not "god" in the traditional sense but some thing/someone/some power that organized the potential chaos in the universe into the unlikely universe we live in.

My Grandfather, who taught physics in a University for 37 years came to the same conclusion after living the majority of his life as an atheist.
Albert Einstein said it best "My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind." and "Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble."

[raab]

Originally Posted by alta270

So you are clear that the earth is at least 20,000 years old then, not 6,000? I mean, if carbon dating is reliable to 20,000 years, then that is the obvious conclusion, right?

Is that what you are saying?

Im saying, Im not sure how old the earth is, but I dont think its beyond the realm of possibility that its younger then 4.6B years old. This based on what we see happening around us currently and the faulty methods used to come up with that date. Lets say for instance the earth is only 460,000 years old, then evolution becomes an incredibly hard theory to believe in, and they would need to find something else to disprove we were in fact created and did not evolve from nothing. When we look at quantum physics everything is pointing to the world being made by intelligent design.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Big Thumper

Through natural selection, the formation of new, distinct species takes thousands upon thousands of years, so, you will not see it 'today' but if you stick around for a few hundred thousand years and you will see new species.
Your second statement of nothing in the fossil record showing one species changing into another is not really what evolutionist propose. What they do propose is that some species have a common ancestor and they are many, many fossil records showing this.

Well thats my point, if it takes thousands and thousand of years, shouldnt we still be seeing it since the earth is supposedly 4.6B years old? Should it not be more prevalent now then it was 100M years ago? Why are species dying off and not evolving? It doesn't make sense, it really doesn't. The only thing that makes sense is that by telling you it takes a long time, you never expect to see it. But we should, because we've been here a long time!

[covey ridge]

I just wonder how long ancient man laying on his back looking at the night stars wondered why they just came out at night. I wonder when he first noticed that there was a pattern. I learned the why of some of this stuff in school and if it were up to me the world would have never have known why.
Every time I laid on my back and pondered the stars I would fall asleep.

[roger]

Religion is a poison.
It preys on those who feel the need to pray.
Humanity would be a better place without it.
Evolutionists are not the enemy here the other abrahamic followers are...let them fight it out.
the only time they get along is when it's against a free thinker otherwise they would rather kill each other.

[Unregistered user]

Did god have a mother?

[alta270]

Love this quote:

"I do, however, know a few atheists. We don't talk about religion much but, judging by their lives, my atheist friends seem to believe that love is better than hate, relationships are more important than possessions, building up is preferable to tearing down, peace is more noble than war. My atheist friends are, in general, driven by a conviction that the earth is sacred, life is precious, and beauty, joy and hope should be the goals of their lives."

If that were scripture, it would be a pretty good one to hear from the pulpits.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by roger

Religion is a poison.
It preys on those who feel the need to pray.
Humanity would be a better place without it.
Evolutionists are not the enemy here the other abrahamic followers are...let them fight it out.
the only time they get along is when it's against a free thinker otherwise they would rather kill each other.

I don't want to kill anyone, Roger. I do want to kill lots of geese this fall though

[sns2]

This thread has been pretty tame compared to others in the past. But the mods rule on religion is likely a very good one. Nothing gets solved. No one's mind gets changed.

[raab]

I dont even know why religion is in this thread. The question should be do you believe in a old earth or young earth? Do you believe in Macro Evolution, and why? What is one thing that you have personally seen that makes you support the theory of evolution? Not in books, or heard from a scientist, something you personally have witnessed.

[sns2]

Religion is about faith.

Science is about proof.

They are as different as oil and water.

Neither negates the other.

Neither must be necessarily mutually exclusive.

[wolf308]

Oh boy. Here we go.

Sure there's evolution .... By His design !

[sns2]

Originally Posted by wolf308

Oh boy. Here we go.

Sure there's evolution .... By His design !

WTH are you talking about Wolf? I just said this is pointless. You can't prove feces and no one else can either. Save your pot shots for the range. I didn't expect that from you to be honest.

[wolf308]

Prove feces ? Lol. Nice one. Took me a second.

Don't have to.

You/ anyone else is incredible naive if thinking we just poof evolved from cosmic radioactive feces and farts floating in space or some other story all elaborated by the devil in order to raise man higher then The Lord. So plehhhhh ( tounge / spit noise ).

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by raab

Now whether the earth is 6000 years old I'm not sure, it could be 100,000. But I'd like an actual number that is put through stringent testing if I'm going to be told there's no other conclusion. It's my belief that the dating methods used are wrong and the earth is actually much younger then 4.5B year.

Half life of atoms is a constant - Uranium-238 has a half life of some 4.5 billion years. Oldest rocks found on earth are some 3.5 billion years old. How is it known that the earth formed some 4.6 billions of years ago? Not by rocks on earth - but by meteorites that fall to earth. The oldest rock known is in the asteroid belt between Jupiter and Mars.

How does geology know that a meteor hit the Yucatan Peninsula some 65 million years ago? By the dirt layer it left and elements contained within that layer. Created a layer all around the earth. How do they know dinosaurs weren't killed off by said meteor? Because no dino fossils were found in said layer.

The most accurate clock on earth is actually atomic - uses cesium atoms which has a very specific frequency and half life. If science didn't know these atoms, we would never keep time, GPS wouldn't work.

Science is wonderful, embrace it.


And folks, relax, no sense in fighting everything. Have a conversation - not a war.

[alta270]

Originally Posted by raab

I dont even know why religion is in this thread. The question should be do you believe in a old earth or young earth? Do you believe in Macro Evolution, and why? What is one thing that you have personally seen that makes you support the theory of evolution? Not in books, or heard from a scientist, something you personally have witnessed.

Macro evolution is just a ton of micro evolution that it was build on. You already had one person in this thread show where he personally works with evolution in his lab.

Here is a fish that walks like land vertebrates.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/25/s...s-do.html?_r=0

Here you can watch evolution in action actually filmed:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...action/499136/

[purgatory.sv]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What do you believe in? And what is a piece of conclusive evidence you use to support your belief?

I believe the fact that geneticists have proven that rarely, if ever, does a mutation provide new or useful information. Given this fact, it is mathematically impossible to have the life we do today in the timeframe proposed.

In addition, nobody has explained what cause the Big Bang, where the matter was prior, so on and so forth. There are numerous theories but nothing has been proven.

In short, one needs more faith to believe in evolution than to believe in creation.

Best answer.


Both.
When the two words work together they support and can foster growth.

They are words that have been assigned to keep a prospective valid to what you wish to believe.



Question all you want.

As has been referenced in one post an answer will be obtained when you exit…….

[123dave]

Originally Posted by wolf308

Prove feces ? Lol. Nice one. Took me a second.

Don't have to.

You/ anyone else is incredible naive if thinking we just poof evolved from cosmic radioactive feces and farts floating in space or some other story all elaborated by the devil in order to raise man higher then The Lord. So plehhhhh ( tounge / spit noise ).

The devil? So you believe an all powerful deity created an adversary it can't control? Interesting. The Big Bang theory and the theory of evolution are two entirely different things. There is evidence for both. Evolution is the change in frequency of alleles over time. As for the macro micro argument I find it odd that rational people can't see that inches can add up to miles.The Big Bang created a radiation wave that can be observed.
As for a deity, people say it exists, I say that I don't believe you. It's possible but of the thousands of deities proposed in history not one has provided any direct evidence of existence.

[Chargerguy]

An interesting video

https://youtu.be/CzyQbOQ0dv0

[chris762]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

Made me laugh out loud! But seriously, This is probably the most accurate representation of where humans came from. But, who created Marvin the Martian, father of humanity?........

[Reeves1]

You mean these folks are not real ?