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12-11-2019, 02:37 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In the shadow of the Valhalla Mountains, BC .
Posts: 9,175
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Afghanistan ... A War 'On The Cheap' ❗
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Last edited by Selkirk; 12-11-2019 at 02:49 PM.
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12-11-2019, 04:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
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You beat me to it.  Governments talk big and then cheap out, the troops pay the price and don't get results. Then there's the reluctance to risk human lives, because the voters can't handle even light losses these days. Bosnia is a perfect example. Gotta wonder what's going to happen if the **** ever hits the fan, Big Time ? 
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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12-11-2019, 04:45 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In the shadow of the Valhalla Mountains, BC .
Posts: 9,175
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. It's enough to make a grown man Puke ❗
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A quote from the Washington Post Investigation :
“Every data point was altered to present the best picture possible,” Bob Crowley, an Army colonel who served as a senior counterinsurgency adviser to U.S. military commanders in 2013 and 2014, told government interviewers. “Surveys, for instance, were totally unreliable but reinforced that everything we were doing was right and we became a self-licking ice cream cone.”
The same kind of crap went on during the Vietnam War ... the Yanks have learned Nothing ❗
Selkirk
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12-11-2019, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkirk
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A quote from the Washington Post Investigation :
“Every data point was altered to present the best picture possible,” Bob Crowley, an Army colonel who served as a senior counterinsurgency adviser to U.S. military commanders in 2013 and 2014, told government interviewers. “Surveys, for instance, were totally unreliable but reinforced that everything we were doing was right and we became a self-licking ice cream cone.”
The same kind of crap went on during the Vietnam War ... the Yanks have learned Nothing ❗
Selkirk |
Not just the Yanks. the Germans and French are just as culpable. And us of course, we get an honorable mention.
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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12-11-2019, 07:43 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: In the woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
You beat me to it. Governments talk big and then cheap out, the troops pay the price and don't get results. Then there's the reluctance to risk human lives, because the voters can't handle even light losses these days. Bosnia is a perfect example. Gotta wonder what's going to happen if the **** ever hits the fan, Big Time ?
Grizz |
Western society in general no longer has the balls to do what it takes in war. Like you said, as soon as the losses roll in which is inevitable in any armed conflict, they change their tune. All this hearts and minds does not cut it when your fighting an enemy that has no sense of morals. I can tell you stories of all the atrocities I witnessed in Iraq that never made western news because it didn't fit their agenda. In the first assault on Fallujah they did exactly what was common practice in WWII, door to door search and destroy. If you couldn't go down the street you blew a hole through one house to get into the next and so forth. Darn near leveled the city. When the second assault came around, they did not want a repeat to win the hearts/minds...
In war people die, good and bad, for no reason other than that's just what happens in war. If you have enough cause to go to war, expect it will happen and accept the consequences. If you can't, then don't start it in the first place. I can't tell you how many times I've questioned why I survived when several of my friends who saw way less action than I never made it back. It has taken me along time to realize there is no answer...
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I feel I was denied, critical, need to know Information!
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12-11-2019, 08:57 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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War is a dirty and PROFITABLE business. Some wars are justified, others not so much. In the case of the afghan war, many of us have a hard time in answering the question: What for?? It started as a **** contest between the USSR and the US. Okay. Turned into a civil war. OK. Evolved into the war on terror. I see. Same region, same outcome: countless lives lost, no end in sight. And what remained a constant in all this? The increasing volume in opium production. The same opium the disabled soldier is being prescribed to ease up pain. The same opium feeding the afghan farmer’s family. The same opium killing too more people every year than all the wars combined.
War is a dirty business, indeed.
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12-14-2019, 11:02 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In the shadow of the Valhalla Mountains, BC .
Posts: 9,175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams
Not just the Yanks. the Germans and French are just as culpable. And us of course, we get an honorable mention.
Grizz
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Yes, it's true. Canada is not entirely innocent, but of all the NATO nations that have sent troops to Afghanistan, Canada is one of the 'least' guilty.
Two more quotes from the US Investigation :
"The interviews, through an extensive array of voices, bring into sharp relief the core failings of the war that persist to this day. They underscore how three presidents — George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump — and their military commanders have been unable to deliver on their promises to prevail in Afghanistan."
"Several of those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case."
Given all the Casualties incurred and the Billions of dollars wasted, the whole situation is actually quite Damning ❗
Selkirk
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12-14-2019, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 21,399
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selkirk
Yes, it's true. Canada is not entirely innocent, but of all the NATO nations that have sent troops to Afghanistan, Canada is one of the 'least' guilty.
Two more quotes from the US Investigation :
"The interviews, through an extensive array of voices, bring into sharp relief the core failings of the war that persist to this day. They underscore how three presidents — George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump — and their military commanders have been unable to deliver on their promises to prevail in Afghanistan."
"Several of those interviewed described explicit and sustained efforts by the U.S. government to deliberately mislead the public. They said it was common at military headquarters in Kabul — and at the White House — to distort statistics to make it appear the United States was winning the war when that was not the case."
Given all the Casualties incurred and the Billions of dollars wasted, the whole situation is actually quite Damning ❗
Selkirk |
In Rwanda and Bosnia, the Canadians had to sit back and watch atrocities take place because of the UN dictated "Rules of Engagement". Of course our glorious leader can't wait to sit at the table with them .
Grizz
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"Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal."
John E. Pfeiffer The Emergence of Man
written in 1969
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12-14-2019, 04:58 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
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For all the nations who went into Afghanistan to oust Al Qaeda and then had to deal with the Taliban, there can be nothing but PRAISE from the rest of the world.
Of note, CHINA made a Deal with the Aghan provisional Government to develop a very large copper mine near Khandahar, yet made sure not to spill a drop of blood to take the spoils of stability.
Likewise the stability of Afghanistan, no matter how slight, will allow a pipe line to the Coast from China to Pakistan. Again, no cost or loss of life for China.
As for the Afghan people, it is up to them whether they want to embrace the modern world, or live under stone age conditions ruled by religious zealots.
Hopefully, they choose wisely. The World has done its part for these people.
Drewski
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12-14-2019, 06:35 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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It is concerning that after 18 years of war the Taliban remain undefeated and now control large parts of Afghanistan. God help us and our allies if we ever have to go up against an enemy like Russia or China. Of course that would be a completely different type of war.
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12-14-2019, 09:40 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Edmonton…sadly enough
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I spent a good bit of my life fighting in Afghanistan. We dominated the Taliban tactically in every engagement we were in, but the strategic objectives/conditions for winning the war were never really defined. It is hard to win a war when you don’t know what winning entails (opening some schools, etc was never a good metric for success). It is even harder to win when you are fighting the local populace. My first tour in 2006 we fought against foreigners. My second tour in 2009 we fought against local kids. That was a good indicator that we were losing the confidence of the populace. Win or lose, I had a lot of fun there, learned a lot about myself/life and am glad that I went. I am even more glad that I walked away relatively unscathed...
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12-16-2019, 04:32 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In the shadow of the Valhalla Mountains, BC .
Posts: 9,175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry.S
I spent a good bit of my life fighting in Afghanistan. We dominated the Taliban tactically in every engagement we were in, but the strategic objectives/conditions for winning the war were never really defined. It is hard to win a war when you don’t know what winning entails (opening some schools, etc was never a good metric for success). It is even harder to win when you are fighting the local populace. My first tour in 2006 we fought against foreigners. My second tour in 2009 we fought against local kids. That was a good indicator that we were losing the confidence of the populace. Win or lose, I had a lot of fun there, learned a lot about myself/life and am glad that I went. I am even more glad that I walked away relatively unscathed...
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Thank-You for your service, Sir.
In spite of all the challenges and difficulties in Afghanistan, you Guys & Gals did Canada 'Proud' ❗
Selkirk
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