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Old 12-23-2013, 07:19 AM
fatboyz fatboyz is offline
 
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Default Bow building season again

Well I had to Beat Pete to the draw here. For me I have a few projects on the go. I will be finishing the sinew backed Cherry bow I started late last season. I dried and pounded the sinew this summer and put it on the back. It's cured for a few months now so it's ready to tiller. My other project is to build a riser for a take down recurve. I have a set of samic Sage limbs that I put on an old compound riser last year. It worked OK but not great and was quite clubby. I took some measurements from my friends take down and got my daughter the cabinet maker to bring me some 1/4" thick pieces of hardwood to lay up for the riser. I have oak, maple and black walnut. I'm going to glue up the blank today then start the rough cutting on the band saw over the holidays. I got a bamboo backed Osage longbow from Pete in a trade a couple weeks back and the workmanship has really got me pumped to get going on the cherry bow. The cherry bow is going to be a snakey bow and I'm going to put a bit of reflex into it. If everything goes well with these projects and I still have some time I have a floor tillered birch bow that I would like to back with sinew and see if it works better than the birch self bow I made last season. I bought a table top belt/disk sander at CT this weekend so things should go a little quicker.
What's everybody else have on the drawing board?
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Old 12-23-2013, 08:28 AM
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Lornce Lornce is offline
 
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Post some pictures of you build progress please.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:31 AM
petew petew is offline
 
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Good to see you back at it again. One thing you will find out quickly is good staves make good bows, and poor staves make lousy bows. It is very hard to get good staves here but it is worth it. I still have some Hop Hornbeam, and some Osage to work with for this season. Hickory also makes excellent bows and is very easy to work with.
Board bows can be good IF YOU FIND GOOD GRAINED BOARDS. I have had good luck with maple trim for kids bows.

I think I might try a Penobscott or Micmac bow this year from the Hop Hornbeam staves.
This reminds me I need a new 3TPI blade for the band saw.
Glad you liked the trade bow .
Pete
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:33 PM
fatboyz fatboyz is offline
 
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One of the guys at the office has his heart set on making a mogul bow. As horn is not that easy to come by he is planning on using birch, sinew and fiberglass.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:00 PM
bsmitty27 bsmitty27 is offline
 
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Default Some help with maple staves

I'm heading back to Ontario in jan and was planning on cutting some maple for staves. My parents have thick hardwood forest with lots of young straight maples 4-8" diameter. I will also look for some cherry and walnut when I'm there. What would be the best size and what would be the best way to treat it. Paint ends with polyurethane? I'm going to leave it there and have a friend drive it this way in the spring. Thanks
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:09 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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The best way is split it lengthwise in quarters or smaller if the log is a larger diameter. Then peel it, then seal it all over with shellac or poly or varnish. . A 4" log can be good, just split it in half, an 8 to 10" is great split it in 4. Start at 1 end and use wedges to split it following the natural grain it wants to split on. Wood wedges work great,make them on the spot from branches and just keep advancing them along the crack as you go. Maple should split easy when frozen. Let it split where it want to, just go with the natural grain it is following.
When split move them out of the weather thaw and seal.. They need to be peeled and sealed ASAP.
If you have Hop Hornbeam, or Hickory to choose from , take that over maple. Cherry should be good too. I don't think walnut will work, but you can try it.
try to cut the logs at least 70" or longer.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:12 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz View Post
One of the guys at the office has his heart set on making a mogul bow. As horn is not that easy to come by he is planning on using birch, sinew and fiberglass.
Way to much work to try with Birch. Tell him to get some real wood.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:34 PM
fatboyz fatboyz is offline
 
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Apparently from what he's read the Mongols did use some type of scrubby birch, bone and horn?
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:52 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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I don't understand using glass and sinew, and I wouldn't waste any time with birch. If he hasn't made a bow before he has his work cut out for him. Glass and Sinew do the same thing and glass will need to be baked, while sinew doesn't get baked.
If he wants this style get good wood, do it right with Horn or sinew. Horn is available if you do a search.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:52 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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Here is some information from Tim Baker about bow woods. Tim is about the best source for self bow knowledge.

Here's my list of bowwoods. Always adding to it though. Tim

NON BOWWOODS With special treatment heavier species in this group, and similar SG wood not listed here, can become light to midweight bows. This requires that they be extra long or wide, backed, tillered to a shorter draw, braced lower, or somewhat deflexed. If lightly rawhide-backed or sinew-backed a shorter bow will hold together. Especially if pulled into reflex before applying sinew. At 80 many can yield 50lb, full-draw bows. This may seem too long. But the English war bows were that long, and for similar reasons: such length allows much higher weight than if man tall. Side benefits are a smoother, low-stack draw, greater accuracy, and good speed per drawweight--if somewhat whip tillered. A useful approach is to begin with an English design 1.5 wide and 80 or longer, tillered to 50lb. Then retiller shorter and shorter until it takes about 1.5 of set.

ALDERS: red .41SG; gray .47.
ASPEN .38. BALDCYPRESS .46.
BALSA .16.
BASSWOOD .37.
BUCKEYE yellow .36
BUTTERNUT .38.
COTTONWOOD: black .45; eastern .40.
CEDARS: western red, white .32, Port Orford .43, Alaska .44. Low SG cedars are very brittle, and about the worst possible bowwood candidates. More like balsa than bowwood. There is always the rare piece of oldgrowth heartwood or compression wood that could do a bit better. When choosing any conifer choose thin-ringed wood if possible.
CHESTNUT, American, .43.
FIRS: balsam .36, white .37, noble .38, Pacific silver .38, California red .39, Norway .43. HEMLOCK .42.
MAHOGANY Most mahoganies and woods sold as mahogany are light and brittle. Some can reach .50 and above.
MANGO About .45.
PINES: eastern white .35; sugar .36; western white .38; ponderosa, lodgepole .40; red, Scots .45.
POPLARS Several species, all just above or below .37. Brittle. Since a same-size staves of poplar contains about half the wood as, say, whiteoak it will do half the work of whiteoak. Everything else being equal poplar, or similar-SG wood, can safely be made to half the drawweight, or to twice the width of whiteoak.
REDWOOD .40.
SPRUCES: black, eastern, red, Sitka, white .40; Norway .42.
WILLOW .39.

BORDERLINE BOWWOODS All of the following can become durable fulldraw midweight bows using less severe versions of the Non-Bowwood remedies, above.

ASH, black .49. Black is the lightest and weakest ash. Tested samples and bows took excessive set per mass.
BOXELDER .46.
ELEDEBERRY To .50. There are several species. Dr. Bert Grayson's elderberry in Oregon appears denser and more elastic than that tested here in the Bay Area, and made a decent bow. Elderberry is superior wood for drill and base when making handrill fires.
EUCALYPTUS Somewhat brittle in tension, chrysals easily, tends to be twisted, leaving clues to this in its bark. Its less twisted when grown undercover and away from wind. This wood takes little set before it blows, so will have good cast as long as it holds together.
FIR, Douglas .49. Look for heartwood boards or trees with a high percentage of dark wood in the rings. 50% if you can. Such usually comes from fine-ringed, old-growth wood, more frequently seen in old doors and beams at salvage yards. Such dense fir can perform like mid-weight ash.
HAWTHORN, English, Crataegus laevigata. ??????????????????//
LARCH, eastern tamarak .52. Several good bows reported; western .51.
MAGNOLIA, southern .50. Diffuse-porous.
PINES: loblolly, pitch, shortleaf .51, southern yellow .55, longleaf, slash .56.
SASSAFRAS is placed in this category with some reluctance. At .46, it tends to break on its back before taken cast-robbing set. Sassafras will become a fast, smooth bow if handled carefully. An ELB design makes the handle area do work, letting about 20% more wood store energy. At 1.5" wide and 76 or so long, with narrow outer limbs, it will be a durable, sweet-shooting bow. As with other tension-weak woods, a crowned English belly will offer some protection by allowing general and local set to take place, reducing back strain. If backed with light rawhide length or width can be reduced to that of a bow of typical .55 or slightly higher SG wood. All the sassafras I've seen has been thin-ringed, with a high percentage of early growth. This wood was thought well of in earlier times. Possibly better growing conditions allowed thicker-ringed, denser, stronger, more elastic wood. Possibly such wood grows today, in which case it would be rated here as a true bowwood. If given a choice select staves with thicker growth rings and low-percentage early wood. Sassafras is especially easy to work.
SILVERBELL .48.
SUMAC, staghorn 47.
SWEETBAY Laurel Magnolia .48.
SYCAMORE .49. Diffuse-porous.
TOYON, California holly. This wood is fairly brittle, but good bows have been nursed from it. For Californians, bay is a better native wood.
TREE-OF-HEAVIN .52.
TUPELO .50. Diffuse-porous.

TRUE BOWWOODS Assuming sound wood, proper design and good tillering, only the lowest SG species here might occasionally need light backing.

APPLE .65.
ASH: green .56; Oregon .56; blue .58; white .59; European .61. White is our heaviest ash. Almost all sapwood. Oregon looks and behaves almost identically to White.
BAY California laurel .56. A Westcoast native.
BAMBOO takes more set per mass than any hardwood. It can be tempered with heat and gain in compression strength and elasticity. Fly rod makers do this, and bowmakers in the past also. Howard Hill for one. Untempered bamboo works well as belly wood if Perry reflexed. If making a bamboo selfbow its helpful to let the outer surface serve as belly, to prevent extreme set. The back is then composed of weaker inner fibers, but is more than strong enough. Yes, tiller on the back..
BEECH, American .64. Diffuse-porous. Usually too twisted and gnarly.
BIRCHES: paper .55; silver, white .59; yellow .62; sweet .65. All birches are diffuse-porous. Somewhat brittle in tension. As with many other similar-density woods, a light rawhide backing makes birch as durable as heavier woods.
BUTTONWOOD Button Mangrove .85. Found in tidal lagoons of Florida.
CALIFORNIA NUTMEG is a less-dense cousin of yew. Its behaves like extra low-density yew. As with yew the sapwood is useless in compression. Working this wood releases a pleasant spicy aroma. CHERRY, black .50. Diffuse-porous. Grows tall and straight. A bright wood, taking little set, and probably having less hysterisis/returning less sluggishly than any other common bowwood. Cherry is so light and brash its almost too touchy for bow wood, but once made, a cherry bow is unusually sweet and fast shooting. If the stave tree was smaller than about 5 in diameter or bow limbs wider than 2 its best to decrown. A thin, properly applied rawhide backing makes cherry as safe as any unbacked wood. On the other hand, Paul Rodgers, a nearby bowmaking friend, made a lumberyard board bow, about 64 by about 1 , about 55lb at 28. Its still shooting after several years of use, still surprisingly straight-limbed and fast. This bow represents the good extreme. Sapwood takes more set in compression than heartwood. DOGWOOD, flowering .73.
EASTERN REDCEDAR .47. An exceptional bowwood if handled appropriately. Its a juniper, not a cedar, having berries instead of cones. Purple-red heartwood. Redcedar is quite elastic per mass. Limbs are thicker or wider per bend resistance. Somewhat weak in tension. Again, a thin rawhide backing makes it as tension safe as any wood. As with juniper and yew its well matched to sinew, the backing riding higher above the neutral plane for greater leverage, the wider ribbon of sinew holding the bow in greater reflex. An all sapwood bow is possible, but sapwood takes considerably more set than heartwood. The boundary between sapwood and heartwood can suddenly plunge several growth rings from one area or spot to another, possibly more so than any other wood. Knot-free lumber staves are almost impossible to find, more so than any other wood. Knot free wood is best found growing in dense shelter or with one side hard against another tree.
ELMS: English .49; American .50; slippery .53; wych .60; rock .63; Winged .66;; paper; white; Texas; flowering. Wych elm grows in England, where it was thought of as best or the otherwoods. Elms are especially strong in tension compared to compression. Therefor, as with the hickories, elms hold up in overstrained designs. Three unidentified elm logs from Texas yielded limbs denser than other elm, more massive per drawweight, and taking more set. Its creamy wood polished as smooth as ivory. If these three logs were typical of the subspecies this is one of the rare woods which is less efficient by its nature. HACKBERRY .53. Similar in looks, structure and design to elm.
GONCOLO ALVES About .80. Tropical. Dark red brown. An especially pretty bowwood. HICKORIES: shellbark .69; mocknut, shagbark .72; pignut .75. Due to their extreme strength in tension the hickories are about the hardest bows to break and, unless at least moderately violated, never need backing. Hickory is used for backing other bows.
HOLLY: American .56; English .68.
HORNBEAM, American .70.
HOPHORNBEAM Eastern .70, can be treated as if a somewhat heavier maple.
IPE 1.08, heavier than water. Tropical.
JUNIPERS All junipers make great bows. As is true of wood in general, the denser the juniper the shorter or narrower a bow can be per given weight and draw. Juniper, of all the bowwoods, is possibly the best match for sinew--as per redcedar, it is thicker, wider, and less stiff per mass than other woods. The hardest part of making a juniper bow is finding a long-enough straight stave. Two short staves can be spliced together at the grip. Ishis people used mountain juniper branches before the ax arrived. Saplings and branches two-inches in diameter or less work fine, especially if sinew backed. Inner bark can sometimes be confused with surface sapwood, leading to broken backs.
KENTUCKY COFFEETREE .60.
KOA .60. Hawaii.
LEMONWOOD Degame .67. One of the icon woods of archery. At one level its disappointing to discover its just another wood, no better or worse. About the weight of pecan, not as strong in tension, taking a touch less set per width. Heartwood is stronger than sapwood. Based on personal bend tests, if back fibers are much violated it will break like any other wood.
LIGNUM VITAE Ironwood. Heartwood is about 1.14, heavier than water. Ive made one bow from its sapwood, density estimated at .85. A bend test yielded of set when bent 3 to 38lb. Osage yields about 3.5 at 34lb. A slight thickness adjustment would have them testing the same. An osage-design bow took near zero set. A heartwood bow might best be 20% narrower than Osage.
LOCUST, black .69. Stronger in tension than compression. A flat-back design is fine, but a crowned-back, wide-belly design is ideal, as from a smaller diameter limb or trunk. This wood is more likely to fret and chrysal, but here there is variation between trees. Nature loves bowmakers. She knows its hard to tiller a bow for best safety and speed, so she gave us the locust tree as teacher. If a locust bow develops clusters of frets in one or a few small areas this is locusts way of telling us we havent tillered the bow well. The fretted areas were put under greater strain, the unfretted areas loafing . Someone may think theyve tillered a bow perfectly, but in the case of locust, the bow will actually tell you if you have or not. A well tillered bow will either have no frets, or else small frets spread along almost the entire length of the limb. If a locust bow is tillered perfectly and still develops frets, this is locusts way of saying we havent designed the bow properly for its weight, length and draw. The locust stave is a classroom.
LOCUST, honey .66 A little less dense than black locust.. One of the prettier woods. Its sapwood is about twice as thick as that of black locust. Thorns grown on both trunk and branches
MADRONE About .60. Somewhat brittle in tension. Rawhide would help here. Some have reported shorter madrone bows breaking even when lightly sinewed.
MAPLES: bigleaf, silver .47; red .54; black .57; rock/sugar .63; vine, about .60. A vinemaple bow is thicker than most. John Strunk discovered and announced the good qualities of this wood. He points out that when felling staves its important to indicate which side more faced the sky, which side the ground. Important because most vinemaple leans as it grows. Even more so than with other branch staves, if a vinemaple bows back is made of side wood it will twist during tillering. This is an important consideration when ordering staves. As with other strong-in-tension woods, there can be an advantage to a crowned back in medium to narrow designs. The crowned back has less mass, the flat-belly takes less set, so outshoots flat-back versions. The lighter maples are somewhat brittle in tension. All maples are diffuse-porous. Rock and sugar maple are the same wood.
MESQUITE, honey .81.
MOUNTAIN MAHOGANY About .80. Very heavy, hard, tough, wood. Doc Safford of S. California reports good results with this wood.
MOUNTAIN LAUREL .68.
MULBERRY, red .66, a distant cousin of Osage. A mulberry bow should be about 15% wider than osage, all else being equal. As with locust and osage, a ring or two of sapwood can be left on the back if the wood was felled and dried before sapwood decay began.
OAKS: California black .57; southern red .59; northern red, sessil, pin, bur .63; scarlet .67; white .68; Whiteoak is about as close to unbreakable as wood can be. In my bend tests it breaks after hickory. Bows Ive made of white oak took large sets without much excuse. On the other hand, I havent been able to break a bow made from this wood. One was steamed into 6 of reflex. When tillered it took 7 of set, standing at one inch of string follow at 55lb, and equaled the cast of any equal-follow bow. Of several whiteoak bows, from several different trees, the one that stayed straightest was fine-ringed, high-percentage early growth. Quite strange. One correspondent reported less set in his white oak bows, others report similar set. White oak is extremely strong in tension. Swamp white, Oregon white .72; Live .82. Semi-ring-porous. Our heaviest oak, and the only non-ring-porous oak.
OSAGE At about .82, osage is the heaviest common native North American wood, except occasionally for live oak. It seems that light yellow osage is less dense, weaker, takes more set, and is more brittle. For equal safety less-dense osage should be a little wider or a little longer than denser, darker osage. Staves having a low percentage of early wood are also heavier and stronger. Osage is easily heat or steam bent. Everything else being equal, osage will make the narrowest bow of all common US woods. For osage to equal the cast and low handshock of lighter woods outer limbs and tips must be proportionately narrower. [[[osage disadvantage,,, brittle if low mc

PADAUK .67. Diffuse-porous. Tropical. Tested samples were somewhat brittle in tension, but this may not be typical.
PALM Black palm is the most commonly used. Palm is not wood in the normal sense. Related to grass and bamboo, it doesnt grow by adding a new ring each year, gradually increasing in diameter. Instead it exudes out of the ground like bamboo, or animal horn. And somewhat like bamboo it is denser at its surface, gradually becoming less dense moving toward its pithy center. As with bamboo, set can be reduced by using its outer surface as belly. Ive seen bows from Amozonia reversed in this manner. If a stave came from a large diameter tree the density difference within the first inch likely wouldnt justify reversal. But small diameter trees of this very hard wood are easier to work with primitive tools. Long, narrow, bows are therefor easier to make than shorter, wider bow, and this is the most common primitive design. Generally found in areas of high humidity these bows are also unusually long in order to prevent set. Once dry, palm will serve for any design.
I have a 50lb black palm bow, which even at 75 is only 1 wide and thick at midlimb. Very stiff wood. This bow was made and used by the Bari people of the South American rainforest. It took many monkeys from many trees for many years in extremely high humidity. In our drier climate the bow gained considerable weight so was retillered. It still has only of follow. The bow is more than a foot taller than its maker. The wood is dark and dense and heavy, about .90-plus by the feel of it, so heavy its outer limbs must be unusually narrow to avoid handshock. Hardwood yards sometimes stock palm, but seldom surface wood, so density/strength/elasticity will vary per its place in the tree. Adjust limb width per density.
PEAR .73.
PECANS: nutmeg .60; water .62; bitternut, pecan .66. All in the hickory family. Pecan and hickory are often sold under the same label in yards.
PERSIMMON .74. Interlocking grain. Semi-ring-porous. Very attractive with an off-white sapwood back and dark belly. Tested samples and bows took slightly more set per mass, but strength in tension allowed corrective reflexing
PLUM About .70. A desirable bow wood, both for its beauty and toughness. But its one of the most difficult to dry without cracking and checking. After felling, if you dont intend making a bow immediately, leave the bark on and seal the ends with two or three coats of paint or glue, or a paraffin dip. A day or two might be needed for the ends to dry enough to hold paint, but dont wait too long . If making a bow straight off, remove its bark the first day or so while it will pull off freely (possible during the growing season only). A dull table knife helps. Otherwise bark must be worked off with sharp tools. This is more work and often leaves a marred back. You might want to leave the bark on smaller diameter branches and saplings. It makes a beautiful back. Plum bark will crack when drawn unless the more brittle outer layers are sanded down, leaving the more supple but still dark plum-colored young bark. This is especially needed on older branches. When the finished bow is oiled this young bark turns a rich, near-black plum. 30lb bows can be made from branches as small as 5/8; 40lb from ; 50lb from 1, and on up. If you leave the bark on the entire branch drying can take a couple of years. Better to floor tiller the bow, keeping it full width for full length to avoid lateral warping. Coat exposed wood with carpenters glue and it will be dry in a couple of months. If you take the bark off of the back and floor tiller the branch, keeping it full width for full length, the wood will be so thin it likely wont check or crack (unless in very low humidity air) and will be dry in ten days or so. Narrow branches make long, narrow bows. Wider branches can make shorter, wider bows. Again, when drying wood, the most valuable item you can own is a humidity meter. Know the humidity and you know finished moisture content. 45% to %55 is a good target humidity, yielding about 9%MC. PURPLEHEART .82. Diffuse-porous. Tropical. Usually from heartwood board staves. Purpleheart has the compression elasticity of perhaps .70 wood, fretting more easily than other woods. Pretend youre making a bow of hophornbeam to be safe. Or, even more carefully than with other woods, execute thickness taper so that no portion or the limb is overstrainedno local or general dips or rises. If once past mid-limb you taper in a straight line to narrow nocks outer limbs will be light enough to pay for slightly wider mid limbs. Handshock can be a problem with such heavy woods; narrow outer limbs and tips help here also. A couple of my early purplehearts blew due to small hard-to-see back knots. A thin hickory backing looks good on this dark wood (rawhide too). A hickory backing can be applied in Perry fashion, protecting the belly as well as the back.
RAMIN .59. Diffuse-porous. Often found in the form or dowels and tool handles.
ROWAN Quicken Mountain ash A small tree native to the north and west of Britain, is mentioned in a beautiful little book, British Woodland Trees, written in the 1940s by H. I. Edlin. Its said that the wood is reddish brown and tough and that the fruit makes an edible jelly. Used by the British in past centuries.
Several current European bowmakers have reported good result with European rowan--Sorbus aucuparia, about .60 specific gravity. And Orgeon bowmakers have use the American version, Sorbus americana.
SERVICEBERRY About .70.
SNAKEWOOD 1.0-plus. Very dense tropical wood. Thought highly of in the past, it was once harvested in southern Florida and still may possibly grow there.
SCOTCH BROOM is a yellow-flowering little bush that grows along the roadways of California, watered by runoff from the crowned streets. Its like countless other such plants, in that at first glance it seems more like a useless weed than the makings for an first-class bow. There are surely scores of such unsung shrubs waiting to sling arrows as well as the known woods if just given a chance. Scotch Broom is a great little bow wood. Dense and tough. If any size at all it tends to be twisted and gnarly. This wood tends to check easily when drying, so treat it like plum. Use trunks as narrow as 1 in diameter. Two such trunks spliced together at the grip will yield a 66 or so bow. The high crown will be safe, the resulting low mass only improving cast. The narrower the limb the longer the bow should be. But sub 48, even 36, self staves make evil little Indian bows, the shorter ones limited to 40lb with drawlengths just under half of bow length. 50lb-plus, and stronger draws, can be gotten from mid-50 and longer bows.
SUGARBERRY .51.
SWEETGUM .52. Diffuse-porous. Good bows have been reported.
TANOAK .65, semi-ring-porous.
TEAK .57. Oily, extremely rot resistant. Tested samples and bows were slightly brash.
TROPICAL WOODS Space only allows a few here. There are scores available. Any over .50SG will serve.
TULIPWOOD .86. Tropical.
WALNUT: black .55. Semi-ring-porous, easy to work, elastic for its mass, similar in performance to cherry, but more tension-safe. Will try to chrysal where cherry wont. A wonderful, overlooked bowwood. Bows can be all sapwood or all heartwood, or mixed, sapwood taking a bit more set in compression. The off-white sapwood can be worked down to 25% or so of limb thickness, creating appealing contrast with the almost black belly. Very high heartwood extractive level, so as with similar woods, it may be more resistant to water absorption. Its reported not to warp with rising and falling humidity, possibly for this reason.
WALNUT, European .56. Design as per Black. Not as pretty, but makes a nice bow. Strong enough in tension to tolerate being a backward bow: the crowned sapling surface as belly, the split back surface tillered.
WENGE. About .67, determined by comparing same-size samples to known SG woods. African hardwood. Common in hardwood yards. Oils to a rich near-black. Looks impressive with a white hickory or rawhide back. When worked, wenge dusts up badly on its back, causing backs to pop off unless cleaned unusually well before gluing. The wood seems somewhat oily. Of possibly 100 boards observed, all were fairly thin ringed, but with even thinner earlywood. Wenge is more brittle in tension than same SG pecan. It wont allow the same degree of back fiber violation or as much overbending before breaking. A Uniform Bend Test sample took of set when bent 3.5 at 24.5lb An average of three osage tests yielded 3.5 at 34lb. So, at equal thickness Osage and wenge were equally elastic, but wenge would have to be about 30% wider to have equal drawweight at equal set. This is based on just one wenge test, but comports with wenge bows Ive made.
WITCH HAZEL .60.
YEW, pacific Taxus brevifolia .63. Sapwood is strong and elastic in tension but takes enormous set in compression. Heartwood is elastic in both tension and compression. The back of a heartwood-only yew bow is safe and efficient. Sapwood/heartwood will bend a little farther before breaking, but would have to be far overstrained for this margin to come into play. Knowing this allow the use of inner splits of yew as selfbow staves. Low level yew, on average, grows faster than at high levels. Fast-growing, thick-ringed conifers yield lighter, weaker, less elastic wood. The opposite is true of hardwoods (diffuse-porous hardwoods may be as strong whether thin or thick-ringed). Unlike hardwoods, the percentage of late growth is usually higher in slow growing conifers. A crowned belly will increase safety in an overstrained design, as per the 100-plus-pound old English warbows. A crowned back will help performance, having lower limb mass. But for safety youll have to stay true to a back ring, or close to it. Due to its low bend resistance and high elasticity, yew can be narrow and thicker than any other wood, save possibly juniper. Only yew will make a same dimension and weight old English warbow. Horn nocks are not just for show. Yew is soft, and bowstrings can eat into the nocks on especially heavy bows with narrow strings. From one point of view, the more hoary and wild a yew stave the better. Yew bows full of pins and even untouched twigs, a few yew leaves waving in the breeze such bows look ancient and full of mystery. Surely the Druids made them this way.
YEW, European Taxus baccata .66 on average, thin-ringed being considerably more dense than thick-ringed.
ZEBRAWOOD About .68.
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Old 12-29-2013, 05:57 PM
fatboyz fatboyz is offline
 
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Pete where do you get horn from other than one place I saw on the net in England?
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:08 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/prod...036BE7?lang=en

http://www.chichesterinc.com/WaterBuffaloHorn.htm

Of course Ebay is always a source.
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:17 PM
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Just finished up a 69" yew flatbow, and will be using some bighorn sheep horn (taken on a non-trophy draw) that I have been hanging onto for about 15 years. Finally found a use for it. Should impart some pretty good mojo on the bow. Still have to tiller, I'm at 50lbs at about 25" draw right now, and want to come in around 45 lbs at 30".





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Old 01-11-2014, 01:37 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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That's a good looking bow. The lower limb looks stiff .
I was taught not to draw the bow past the target weight during tillering.
So if you want a 45# bow , draw it to 45# tiller/ scrape some more and exercise it well , then draw to 45 again and repeat until you reach the desired draw length .
I would try to get both limbs working the same by working on the lower limb only until both limbs are equal before going any farther, and not work it past the 45# weight you want to end up at..
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Old 01-11-2014, 01:45 PM
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Yes, it is stiff on the lower limb, I was thinking of scraping that belly, while strung, until it balances out. Would that have any downside, vs unstringing? would be able to watch it closely and stop at the right point that way. Just going to build a tillering tree as well, so i can watch the scale as I go. thanks for the tips Pete.
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Old 01-11-2014, 02:00 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leather burner View Post
Yes, it is stiff on the lower limb, I was thinking of scraping that belly, while strung, until it balances out. Would that have any downside, vs unstringing? would be able to watch it closely and stop at the right point that way. Just going to build a tillering tree as well, so i can watch the scale as I go. thanks for the tips Pete.
That's a good way to go. Scrape the lower and short draw it until you see both limbs the same , try not to go over the target weight , and watch for hinges.
you not only want an even tiller happening but you also want both limbs with the same arc in them. Go slow. Often a couple scrapes make a huge diference. I like to use a ferries rasp for the early tillering stages, then go to a cabinet scraper.
Exercise the limbs a lot every time you scrape it, then check the tiller and arc to see what is happening. You won't see the actual changes until the limb gets exercised.
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Old 01-13-2014, 07:54 PM
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Default Tillering tree complete

Here's the tillering tree, completed. Really shows the weaker limb well. I can read the scale as I'm drawing. The electronic scale holds the peak weight, and taking a photo lets you evaluate where you are at without holding/stressing the bow for too long.




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Old 01-13-2014, 08:52 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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looking good. It the left limb hinging just past the fade? The right limb looks real nice.
Try centering the grip on the tree , and switching the bow around . Often if we are not centered the bow tips a bit to 1 side giving a false impression of stiff/weak. A smaller contact point on the tree helps too
Shim the top of the tree so the bow lays level at rest.
By truning the bow around you will see if the weak limb is realy weak, or the bow is not laying true.

What weight is it at the draw length you have in the picture?

Last edited by petew; 01-13-2014 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:06 PM
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Thanks Pete. Good tips. I do have a centerline marked on the handle, and its sitting dead center between nocks, but the face of my handle is not necessarily level, so the flipping around is a great idea. I havent decided which limb will be top or bottom yet, as its symetrical. It is pulling 44 lbs at 24 inches right now. Its going to have quite an arc at 30. Hope she hangs in there. Do you think a 30" draw is too much for a 68" nock to nock bow?

Last edited by Leather burner; 01-13-2014 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:14 PM
Carbon Caster Carbon Caster is offline
 
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I am not Pete, but that is WAY to short for my comfort with a 30" Draw. I think you will be pushing it to get to 29" with that bow. I like at least 68-70" with that style for a 28" draw. I DEFINITELY wouldn't waste sheep horn on it until I had at LEAST 100 arrows out of it. Should let go by then.......LOL!!! I HOPE NOT, though.

Looks nice.

I like the tree BTW!!!

Been TOO long since I did any builds!
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:19 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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30 is more than I make, but I have no problem with a 65" 28" draw.
It will tell you if it won't work. You are at 44 now at 24". Now draw it at least 25 times to 24" but don't hold it there. the more you exercise it the better it will turn out.
Watch for stiff spots and hinges. Don't work a hinge at all work the area next to it to relieve it . Get rid of hinges before worring about stiff spots. remember where the hinges were after removing them .
Work on getting both limbs bending in the same arc and don't draw past your 24" until both are the same. Then advance 1" at a time exercising at every inch, then back on the tree to see how it looks. At this time go very slow with a cabinet scraper , a little off will make a big difference.
Keep the belly edges a bit rounded, think of the size of a pea. just enough so you don't lift a splinter.
Exercising the limbs builds a memory , teaching the limb that it will bend this far.
Don't rush, it will only make a broken bow. It it does break , you have still gained a lot of experience for the next one.

Next time get the limbs even on the short string , then keep them even all the way checking and drawing an inch at a time. Exercise every inch from the first stringing till done.
Don't worry about the target weight, worry more about it drawing to your draw length. If it comes in light and is a shooter it is a winner.
For the next one try for a longer stave if you want 30" draw.
You are lucky to find a stave at all up here.

Last edited by petew; 01-13-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:22 PM
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30 is my compound draw, so im thinking if i open up my stance, and with trad gear i might be closer to a 28? think i might stop there, and see if i can shoot it.

Oh, i chickened out on the sheep horn, went to put a saw to it, and then decided to go with a chunk of ebony instead!
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:24 PM
fatboyz fatboyz is offline
 
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Leather, where did you get the Yew stave from. I hope to cut some on Vancouver island this spring. I need to get some pics of the cherry bow up, it's coming nice. I re did the handle on the maple bow I made last winter. It was a little chunky and I kept whacking my arm with the string. I narrowed it down nice and refinished it yesterday. Flung a few arrows through it tonight and it works much better. Just need to tiller the cherry bow now.
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  #24  
Old 01-13-2014, 09:30 PM
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Thanks Pete, appreciate your way of explaining!
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:32 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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we measure from the back side of the riser for draw length, I'm not clear where you are measuring from. If you draw 30" compound expect to draw less traditional . Draw to the corner of the mouth, not your ears.
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2014, 09:36 PM
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Ahh good stuff! it was given to me by a good friend in bc, cut in the koots i think. it was cut about 6 years ago, so well seasoned. growth rings are microscopic. touch it with sandpaper and you are through a ring, so there was no chasing a ring, but i understand on yew that tight its not critical to hang on one ring.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2014, 09:51 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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All this talk and pictures has me getting the urge to finish up some bows I started last season.
I need a Penobscott Hop Hornbeam, and another Molegabet in a heavier draw weight before spring. The last one came in light, and the first one didn't want to be a bow after a couple hundred shots.
A new band saw blade is all that's holding me up.
I think I still have a snakey osage stave left too.
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  #28  
Old 01-14-2014, 07:36 AM
fatboyz fatboyz is offline
 
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Pete can you describe a Molegabet? The weather this weekend looks good for tillering the Cherry bow. I put a few arrows through that BBO bow from you too. Seems real nice, granted it was dark and I was only shooting 8m, just couldn't wait!!
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  #29  
Old 01-14-2014, 07:55 PM
petew petew is offline
 
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This Molegabet isn't mine, but it looks just like it. Lota of confusion about the Molegabet or Holmgard bows, but both are designs from thousands of years ago. They might be ancient in design but the shoot very nice.



Here is some reading about them from paleoplanet with a few more links .http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/i...?topic=30913.0

Here are some shots of the Ash one I made









Another I want to make is a Penobscott or Micmac This pic is a Micmac war Bow , {not made by me.}


Last edited by petew; 01-14-2014 at 08:12 PM.
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  #30  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:07 AM
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That's cool Pete, thanks for posting
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