Buying Whole Coyotes......Illegal!

[HunterDave]

This thread may generate a bit of discussion about buying whole coyotes in order to process the fur and IMO could tie into other threads wrt selling furs to people.

There seemed to be so much confusion about whether or not it was legal to buy and sell whole coyotes that I decided to submit the question about buying them to F&W. Here is the question that I submitted to them:

As a licenced Residential Trapper, is it legal for me to purchase a whole coyote, unskinned, in order to process the pelt for sale at auction?


Today I received a reply. Here it is:


Hi Mr. (HunterDave),

A Fur Buyers licence is required to purchase the pelts and parts of any fur-bearing animal.

There are two type, one you can only purchase at your licenced premises and the other allows you to purchase anywhere in Alberta.

Purchasing whole coyotes without a Fur-Buyers licences is an offence of trafficking in wildlife.

From the Regulation guide

Fur Dealers

Fur dealers shall ensure that an approved partner as described

above (including their spouse or a resident child under 18 years

of age) produces a valid licence and WA188 card when selling

the pelts and parts of any fur-bearing animals. The appropriate

information from the card shall be accurately recorded and

maintained as part of the Fur Dealer’s Transaction Record.

Similarly, fur dealers shall ensure that the appropriate information

from Registered and Resident Fur Management Licences is

recorded when fur is bought from individuals authorized to sell

under these authorities.

For those fur dealers authorized to conduct the registration of

the pelts of lynx, fisher, wolverine and otter, the Furbearers

Registration Certificate (WA324) shall be fully and accurately

completed and appropriately submitted in a timely manner.

Fur dealers are required to report monthly all wildlife taken into

possession.

Also, fur dealers are required to retain on the licenced premises a

copy of all records for 2 years since the wildlife was last possessed.

Contact your local Fish and Wildlife office for further information

(see Page 6).



From the Wildlife Regulations

Fur dealer permits - entitlements

75(1) A Class 1 fur dealer permit authorizes its holder to traffic in

skins of fur-bearing animals with a person who is legally entitled to

traffic in those skins, on that fur dealer’s permit premises other

than in the living quarters of a private dwelling.



(2) A Class 2 fur dealer permit authorizes its holder to purchase

skins of fur-bearing animals anywhere in Alberta on behalf of the

holder of a Class 1 fur dealer permit named in the permit.

[Red Bullets]

Excellent post. Everyone should read the response you got back from F&W.

[mxz1997]

Can someone give them to you?

[Bigmountainrider]

Yes, you can let them lay to waste or gift them to someone.

[JDRAZZ]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

This thread may generate a bit of discussion about buying whole coyotes in order to process the fur and IMO could tie into other threads wrt selling furs to people.

There seemed to be so much confusion about whether or not it was legal to buy and sell whole coyotes that I decided to submit the question about buying them to F&W. Here is the question that I submitted to them:

As a licenced Residential Trapper, is it legal for me to purchase a whole coyote, unskinned, in order to process the pelt for sale at auction?


Today I received a reply. Here it is:


Hi Mr. (HunterDave),

A Fur Buyers licence is required to purchase the pelts and parts of any fur-bearing animal.

There are two type, one you can only purchase at your licenced premises and the other allows you to purchase anywhere in Alberta.

Purchasing whole coyotes without a Fur-Buyers licences is an offence of trafficking in wildlife.

From the Regulation guide

Fur Dealers

Fur dealers shall ensure that an approved partner as described

above (including their spouse or a resident child under 18 years

of age) produces a valid licence and WA188 card when selling

the pelts and parts of any fur-bearing animals. The appropriate

information from the card shall be accurately recorded and

maintained as part of the Fur Dealer’s Transaction Record.

Similarly, fur dealers shall ensure that the appropriate information

from Registered and Resident Fur Management Licences is

recorded when fur is bought from individuals authorized to sell

under these authorities.

For those fur dealers authorized to conduct the registration of

the pelts of lynx, fisher, wolverine and otter, the Furbearers

Registration Certificate (WA324) shall be fully and accurately

completed and appropriately submitted in a timely manner.

Fur dealers are required to report monthly all wildlife taken into

possession.

Also, fur dealers are required to retain on the licenced premises a

copy of all records for 2 years since the wildlife was last possessed.

Contact your local Fish and Wildlife office for further information

(see Page 6).



From the Wildlife Regulations

Fur dealer permits - entitlements

75(1) A Class 1 fur dealer permit authorizes its holder to traffic in

skins of fur-bearing animals with a person who is legally entitled to

traffic in those skins, on that fur dealer’s permit premises other

than in the living quarters of a private dwelling.



(2) A Class 2 fur dealer permit authorizes its holder to purchase

skins of fur-bearing animals anywhere in Alberta on behalf of the

holder of a Class 1 fur dealer permit named in the permit.

Thanks for the good information, that fully covers all the information needed if one wants to buy whole coyotes. On the reverse side is there any stipulations on someone who wants to sell whole coyotes(legally harvested of course) to someone that holds the appropriate Fur Buyers License.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Bigmountainrider

Yes, you can let them lay to waste or gift them to someone.

There's a reg that states that you aren't allowed to allow the fur of a furbearing animal go to waste so I don't think that you can legally do that. I don't see anything in the regs that says you can't accept them as a gift though.

Originally Posted by JDRAZZ

Thanks for the good information, that fully covers all the information needed if one wants to buy whole coyotes. On the reverse side is there any stipulations on someone who wants to sell whole coyotes(legally harvested of course) to someone that holds the appropriate Fur Buyers License.

It looks to me like anyone can sell them but only someone with a "Fur Dealer Permit" can legally buy them. I looked in the regs and the permit costs $100.

I left the signature line out from the email response that I received but I know that he is a member of AO so maybe he'll find this thread and post info if any clarification is needed.

[philintheblank]

You can still put up fur for people if you keep records of who owns what in you fur shed. Check out the fur handlers section in the trapping regs. You can then charge a fee for the work you did prepping the pelts, the fee is between you and the owner of the fur

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

There's a reg that states that you aren't allowed to allow the fur of a furbearing animal go to waste

On public (crown) land, that is... On private land that regulation does not apply...

[coyote_man]

It used to and still may apply to all lands,I think. A land owner is exempt and does not need to save the hide. Heres a chance for our officer friend to clarify.

[KI-UTE]

So if it's sooo illegal for people to buy coyotes without a licence, how is it that people sell coyotes to the Hutterites in droves and that is obviously purposefully overlooked by F&W?

How many times have we seen it posted on here that people sell their coyotes to the Hutterites? I don't get it.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by KI-UTE

So if it's sooo illegal for people to buy coyotes without a licence, how is it that people sell coyotes to the Hutterites in droves and that is obviously purposefully overlooked by F&W?

How many times have we seen it posted on here that people sell their coyotes to the Hutterites? I don't get it.

I suppose that they would have a Fur Buyers Permit. They cost $100.

I don't think that F&W selects who has to follow the regs and who doesn't.

[KI-UTE]

I would not suppose that.

I would doubt that.

Extremely gracious though.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by coyote_man

It used to and still may apply to all lands,I think. A land owner is exempt and does not need to save the hide. Heres a chance for our officer friend to clarify.

Hmmm... Here's what's in the online copy of the regulations:

Other Species

NOTE: It is unlawful, with the following exceptions, to allow the pelt of any furbearing animal to be wasted:
It is not legally necessary to salvage pelts of 1) furbearing animals taken in accordance with regulations authorizing control of problem wildlife, or 2) coyotes harvested, by residents, outside of public lands in the Green Area.

And from the Wildlife Act:

Prohibition against spoilage, etc., of skin and edible flesh
41(1) A person who has killed or is in possession of a game bird
or big game animal, other than a mountain lion or bear, shall not
(a) abandon any of its flesh that is fit for human consumption,
(b) destroy any such flesh, or
(c) allow any such flesh to become unfit for human
consumption.
RSA 2000
(2) A person who has killed or is in possession of the skin of a
fur-bearing animal, bear or mountain lion shall not allow the skin
to be wasted, destroyed, spoiled or abandoned.
(3) This section does not apply to
(a) wildlife killed under
(i) a licence authorizing the collection of wildlife, or
(ii) a licence authorizing the control of wildlife
depredation, unless the licence states that this section
is to apply,
or
(b) a present or prospective domestic cervid.
(4) Subsection (2) does not apply to the skin of a fur-bearing
animal that has been killed in accordance with the Agricultural
Pests Act.
RSA 2000 cW-10 s41;2003 c26 s17;2009 c36 s3

So it boils down to that the Agricultural Pests Act has to say... Which doesn't seem to be much, but there is more detail in the Pest and Nuisance Control Regulation:

(11) A person shall not shoot coyotes or skunks or destroy dens of
coyotes or skunks unless that person
(a) holds a Form 7 permit and, if the shooting is to take place
on another person’s land, has the written permission of its
owner or occupant, and
(b) is acting in compliance with all other applicable laws.

So you need a form 7 permit to shoot coyotes on your farm? I did not know that!

[Mike_W]

So a fur buyer can only buy a fur and not whole coyote but can I not pay someone to skin it for me?
Can I not sell the fur to that same person if they have the appropriate paperwork?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mike_W

So a fur buyer can only buy a fur and not whole coyote but can I not pay someone to skin it for me?
Can I not sell the fur to that same person if they have the appropriate paperwork?

A person with a Fur Buyers permit can legally buy the fur, parts of and/or the whole coyote. You can also pay someone to process the pelt for you (ie skin, flesh, dry). If the person processing your yote has a Fur Buyers Permit you can most definitely sell the yote to him......but why wouldn't you just sell him the yote in the first place?

The funny part about the regs for me is that I haven't seen anywhere where it says that it's illegal to sell fur or whole animals to someone that doesn't have a permit.......similar to someone selling a rifle having to make sure that the buyer has a PAL. I guess that the onus is strictly on the buyer to make sure that he has the permit. I don't know all of the regs so something about it may be in there, but I haven't seen it.

The bottom line is that you need a Fur Buyers Permit to buy yotes whether they are skinned or whole.

[Mike_W]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

A person with a Fur Buyers permit can legally buy the fur, parts of and/or the whole coyote. You can also pay someone to process the pelt for you (ie skin, flesh, dry). If the person processing your yote has a Fur Buyers Permit you can most definitely sell the yote to him......but why wouldn't you just sell him the yote in the first place?

The funny part about the regs for me is that I haven't seen anywhere where it says that it's illegal to sell fur or whole animals to someone that doesn't have a permit.......similar to someone selling a rifle having to make sure that the buyer has a PAL. I guess that the onus is strictly on the buyer to make sure that he has the permit. I don't know all of the regs so something about it may be in there, but I haven't seen it.

The bottom line is that you need a Fur Buyers Permit to buy yotes whether they are skinned or whole.

Ah I read it wrong thanks for clearing that up!!

[calgarychef]

Now that I've heard the rules they actually make perfect sense although I hadn't thought about it before. A trapper can only sell a tanned pelt, obviously a whole dog isn't tanned yet. But it makes me wonder about a trapper doing his own tanning and selling the finished product? In that case the numbers still wouldn't have been accounted for.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Now that I've heard the rules they actually make perfect sense although I hadn't thought about it before. A trapper can only sell a tanned pelt, obviously a whole dog isn't tanned yet. But it makes me wonder about a trapper doing his own tanning and selling the finished product? In that case the numbers still wouldn't have been accounted for.

Anyone, including trappers, can sell a whole dog. The only people that can legally buy them are people with a valid Fur Buyers Permit.

[philintheblank]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Now that I've heard the rules they actually make perfect sense although I hadn't thought about it before. A trapper can only sell a tanned pelt, obviously a whole dog isn't tanned yet. But it makes me wonder about a trapper doing his own tanning and selling the finished product? In that case the numbers still wouldn't have been accounted for.

A trapper can sell any pelt they want, dried or tanned.
Anyone one in the province can sell a tanned pelt to anyone else.
The bulk of trappers do not do tan their own pelts, as the auction houses do not want them tanned.

If you tan your own hide you still need to pay the provincial royalty on it, i think that would be the only way they are accounted for

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by Stinky Buffalo

Hmmm... Here's what's in the online copy of the regulations:



And from the Wildlife Act:



So it boils down to that the Agricultural Pests Act has to say... Which doesn't seem to be much, but there is more detail in the Pest and Nuisance Control Regulation:



So you need a form 7 permit to shoot coyotes on your farm? I did not know that!

Nope. It's 'a' or 'b'. 'B' being covered by all other applicable acts....in this case the wildlife act. If wiley is scoping out your chickens, blast away.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by 338Bluff

Nope. It's 'a' or 'b'. 'B' being covered by all other applicable acts....in this case the wildlife act. If wiley is scoping out your chickens, blast away.

Good to know! Thanks!

[calgarychef]

Yea, like I said you can't sell a coyote unless its tanned or obviously to someone with a buyers licence. If they don't have a licence, then you can't sell to them.....unless its tanned, almost a catch 22 but not quite.

[waterninja]

a person always heres about hutterite colonies buying "whole" yotes. wonder if they have a fur buying liscence?

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by waterninja

a person always heres about hutterite colonies buying "whole" yotes. wonder if they have a fur buying liscence?

The differnet hutterite colonies most likely have Fur buying licences. They are pretty industrious and business minded people. It is probably 2 or 3 guys in the colony assigned to skinning fur bearers and livestock.

[coyotekiller2014]

good job thanks Dave

[tikka250]

Originally Posted by waterninja

a person always heres about hutterite colonies buying "whole" yotes. wonder if they have a fur buying liscence?

Yes they do have a licence. I just asked a hutterite friend of mine if he was buying and his answer was that he had to go to town to get his licence first.

[TrapperMike]

If you sell your coyotes to Hutterites its up to you to make sure that they have their fur buyers licence. F&W tells me if they don't the seller can get a fine up to $100,000 and the purchaser up to $50,000. According to a number of my Hutterite friends, if someone on the colony has a buyers licence he has got this on his own. The colony does not condone this business but some will turn a blind eye to some of their members trapping or handling hides. The stricture colonies will stop this from happening on their colony and punish their members if caught. Remember if your selling to anyone, to protect your butt have them show you their licence.

[coyoteskinner]

What has been left out I think is the fact you legally have to record every transaction (buying whole/fur) with a fur buyers license, complete with trappers name and trapping license # among other things like how many and what price.

So legally not just anyone can sell, the fur buyer can turn a blind eye if the seller does not have a trapping license in the first place and not record anything, but to take that chance would be stupid IMO.

From what I understand you have to submit the records every month.

IMO, the illegal buying/selling will never stop. I have never, ever heard of anyone getting caught and fined/prosecuted from the result of such illegal activity. It is a very grey area, one that conservation knows about but relatively does zero to stop/hinder it. I do not condone it but before they make an example out of what the repercussions are of someone illegally buying fur/carcasses, I doubt it will stop.

[TrapperMike]

A fur buyer can buy coyotes obtained legally. This can be trapped, shot under a wild life certificate or shot by a landowner on their land. And the price does not have to be recorded, that is the buyers and sellers private business.

[coy coyote]

Originally Posted by KI-UTE

So if it's sooo illegal for people to buy coyotes without a licence, how is it that people sell coyotes to the Hutterites in droves and that is obviously purposefully overlooked by F&W?

How many times have we seen it posted on here that people sell their coyotes to the Hutterites? I don't get it.

Over looked by F&W. Lol. We get our share of visits from the guys in green. I have a friend that is a fish and wildlife officer. His words to me were. Quote. If we get a complaint about anything illegal our first priority it to check the local colonies and buddy Hutts get the rap for a lot of shady goings on. As far as a buyer liences. They are easy enough to get. Hutts are not over looked by anyone. Are they selling them to the Hutts or are they taking them to get skinned and stretched. Big difference. I'm on here quite a bit and havn't noticed any posts of guys selling coyotes to Hutts. But once a year at the same time a post like yours shows up. Sorry for the derail Dave. Good post.