Application for a Trapline

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

"Originally Posted by Torkdiesel
The two companies that are currently owned by past presidents of the ATA"


. You should know better. I watch what some of you trappers do to your fellow trappers and wonder what the heck is wrong with you? Trappers won't get pulled down by anti's, their own members are eager to screw them.

Get your facts right, and prove them. or shut up

I was mad and jumped the gun. Frustrated with the whole situation and it turns out to have just been a complete coincidence albeit an incredible one.

I apologized to the parties involved and feel terrible for my lack of faith in those involved.

Like many I was mad and lashed out at those that didn't deserve it !!!

Again I apologize to those involved

[Brian Bildson]

Thanks Tork. I know all about being mad and jumping the gun. Been a life struggle. But at least you have the balls and brains to check things out for yourself and come back on here and acknowledge it.

[sourdough doug]

I don't know why you should have to apologize Tork if the writing is on the wall..but if one was to open a can of worms, it might be more like a 5 gallon pail..

[nube]

Well for whatever it is worth I have talked to a few people as well and thee is no proof of anything and with that i will apolgize as well as there is no proof and I think it is best to stay on the side that we should accept we are all in this together and we all want whats best. As you all know I can get very heated on things. Sorry to ruffle anyones feathers and hopefully things can move one.. The meeting sounded like there were some positives and the GOA really didn't think this through very well....

[Brian Bildson]

I'm impressed with the government on several levels.

First off they are prepared to maintain the RFMA system, inclusive of cabins.

They have also asked RFMA holders if they'd assist in managing problem wildlife of their lines - wolves - black bears - beavers. Acknowledging the value of trappers in the management of species. this is a very important acknowledgement.

And finally the Conservatives screwed around and lied to the ATA on several occasions about DOA timelines and did absolutely nothing to assist or help our industry. The NDP have been in power for a year and have done more to advance trapping then 40 years of Conservative rule.

But if you're not an active trapper, you better get your house in order. And I don't feel sorry for you.

[nube]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

I'm impressed with the government on several levels.

First off they are prepared to maintain the RFMA system, inclusive of cabins.

They have also asked RFMA holders if they'd assist in managing problem wildlife of their lines - wolves - black bears - beavers. Acknowledging the value of trappers in the management of species. this is a very important acknowledgement.

And finally the Conservatives screwed around and lied to the ATA on several occasions about DOA timelines and did absolutely nothing to assist or help our industry. The NDP have been in power for a year and have done more to advance trapping then 40 years of Conservative rule.

But if you're not an active trapper, you better get your house in order. And I don't feel sorry for you.

X2

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

I'm impressed with the government on several levels.

First off they are prepared to maintain the RFMA system, inclusive of cabins.

They have also asked RFMA holders if they'd assist in managing problem wildlife of their lines - wolves - black bears - beavers. Acknowledging the value of trappers in the management of species. this is a very important acknowledgement.

And finally the Conservatives screwed around and lied to the ATA on several occasions about DOA timelines and did absolutely nothing to assist or help our industry. The NDP have been in power for a year and have done more to advance trapping then 40 years of Conservative rule.

But if you're not an active trapper, you better get your house in order. And I don't feel sorry for you.

As of right now aren't lines pretty well worthless Brian? See how it shakes out I guess. Maybe some guys knew this was coming and sold in spring??

[TBark]

Let's hope Gov't doesn't intervene in all future transfers / sales.
Sounds like they want line values to reflect cabins and improvements only.
Like any business, potential value of fur should play a part too.

TBark

[drake]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

I'm impressed with the government on several levels.

First off they are prepared to maintain the RFMA system, inclusive of cabins.

They have also asked RFMA holders if they'd assist in managing problem wildlife of their lines - wolves - black bears - beavers. Acknowledging the value of trappers in the management of species. this is a very important acknowledgement.

And finally the Conservatives screwed around and lied to the ATA on several occasions about DOA timelines and did absolutely nothing to assist or help our industry. The NDP have been in power for a year and have done more to advance trapping then 40 years of Conservative rule.

But if you're not an active trapper, you better get your house in order. And I don't feel sorry for you.

Good post....

you are a calming force around here BB....

[Brian Bildson]

I don't know why your trapline would be worthless? At present the system is the same old same old. the changes are effective 2017 and subject to final discussion with ATA in Sept.

Yes NDP rolled it out without consulting ATA but always stated the consultation would take place. We're really missing the forest for the trees here fellow trappers. What's bad about this? We get rid of dead weight fake "trappers" who are endangering our privileges. Real trappers are not concerned about complying with any definition they come up with for active. Bring it on.

And yes I bet trapline prices will drop and more lines become available. I'm not selling mine so I don't care about resale. And I'm happy for all the young families who are going to get a chance to get on the land.

What we're probably seeing is a situation like when guns had to be licensed. It sucked but it cleaned out a whole bunch of dead wood guns sitting in closets and actually led to a decline in hunting license sales for a while. Almost all old guys who said it wasn't worth the hassle. Sound familiar? But then a new generation of shooters and hunters came along and reinvigorated both. Unless young folks can get into trapping in their early years our industry dies and society will pay the price in increased ADC work.

Now everybody group hug.

[Torkdiesel]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

I don't know why your trapline would be worthless? At present the system is the same old same old. the changes are effective 2017 and subject to final discussion with ATA in Sept.

Yes NDP rolled it out without consulting ATA but always stated the consultation would take place. We're really missing the forest for the trees here fellow trappers. What's bad about this? We get rid of dead weight fake "trappers" who are endangering our privileges. Real trappers are not concerned about complying with any definition they come up with for active. Bring it on.

And yes I bet trapline prices will drop and more lines become available. I'm not selling mine so I don't care about resale. And I'm happy for all the young families who are going to get a chance to get on the land.

What we're probably seeing is a situation like when guns had to be licensed. It sucked but it cleaned out a whole bunch of dead wood guns sitting in closets and actually led to a decline in hunting license sales for a while. Almost all old guys who said it wasn't worth the hassle. Sound familiar? But then a new generation of shooters and hunters came along and reinvigorated both. Unless young folks can get into trapping in their early years our industry dies and society will pay the price in increased ADC work.

Now everybody group hug.

Some good and some bad, like normal I suppose.

I'll be the first to admit I'm afraid of change 😞 lol

[shakeyleg02]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

Some good and some bad, like normal I suppose.

I'll be the first to admit I'm afraid of change 😞 lol

I do agree it will weed out people ..i myself yes i love trapping but only target a few critters
On private property for the love of it and a bit extra pocket cash which being a single father paying for education of 2 daughters does not amount to much if having to take mandatory courses yearly will definatley throw a nail in it for me

[rcmc]

Question for Braian or anyone else, does anyone know how the proposed changes will effect the Resident Trapper?

[moose maniac]

Originally Posted by Brian Bildson

I'm impressed with the government on several levels.

First off they are prepared to maintain the RFMA system, inclusive of cabins.

They have also asked RFMA holders if they'd assist in managing problem wildlife of their lines - wolves - black bears - beavers. Acknowledging the value of trappers in the management of species. this is a very important acknowledgement.

And finally the Conservatives screwed around and lied to the ATA on several occasions about DOA timelines and did absolutely nothing to assist or help our industry. The NDP have been in power for a year and have done more to advance trapping then 40 years of Conservative rule.

But if you're not an active trapper, you better get your house in order. And I don't feel sorry for you.

Its great the NDP have done more to advance trapping lets hope fur prices go up because they are destroying dam near every industry in the province, I see lots of time to trap in the future.

[nube]

Originally Posted by rcmc

Question for Braian or anyone else, does anyone know how the proposed changes will effect the Resident Trapper?

Nothing is mandatory right now. Get involved and read some of the paperwork that was posted earlier by Martinnordegg and others. Any change in trapping will effect everyone not just RMFA holders

[D4l3k]

Personally I think if they want to basically have all these people apply and they pick the best candidate it sounds more like a employer / employee relationship...

They want to hire the best senior to run the people of Alberta's rfma...

Then maybe the rfma owner should become a alberta employee and get a wage of 50k a year and a sweet pension

And the pennies from fur sales can go into the public coffers

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

I want all Traplines used to there potential and certainly don't support people buying them just to have a cabin, but to say I can't sell an asset is pure bullsh

I think this idea sounds pretty good on the surface. There is no question some lines aren't used much if at all, and definitely some use their "trapping" cabin as vacation property and hunting camp. There is a guy over on the HBC forum right now bragging about a friend using his cabin as hunting camp. Post 25....http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showth...Deadline/page3

In fairness, the owner of the line isn't named and for all I know he traps the hell out of it. I do know that what I'm reading here on his post is not allowed.

From what I see I think the intention of this change looks pretty good. Hopefully it works as intended without any boonedoggles.

[6tmile]

That same type of situation has happened here on this very forum in the last while. In the mean time they are up in arms about the changes and want answers to all this right now, but haven't renewed their memberships with the ATA for years.

[nube]

Id say anyone that has an issue with any change because they are going to loose their holiday home has no voice in this. Get off your arse and get to work trapping or loose it. I don't think any real trapper has an issue at all with that.

[ljbb]

Here is something we could give some thought on. Why would the srd say you have to hand in there reciepts in 2017? How about asking for there fur reciepts for the past five years or since you have owned your rfma? I no that lots of us keep there reciepts and you can look up your accounts on nafa web site. So why give the guys who have traplines a chance to so called start trapping there lines now. I have put in my time on my line and proud of it and will continue to do so. I do understand logging oil field and may be the lack of fur play a role why you didnt trap but you can explain that to srd.

[drake]

Originally Posted by ljbb

Here is something we could give some thought on. Why would the srd say you have to hand in there reciepts in 2017? How about asking for there fur reciepts for the past five years or since you have owned your rfma? I no that lots of us keep there reciepts and you can look up your accounts on nafa web site. So why give the guys who have traplines a chance to so called start trapping there lines now. I have put in my time on my line and proud of it and will continue to do so. I do understand logging oil field and may be the lack of fur play a role why you didnt trap but you can explain that to srd.

X2

[waterninja]

Originally Posted by Torkdiesel

That makes me absolutely sick to my stomach these bottom feeding facking leeches would ever stoop to taking away a families line like that. That line should go to his boy if and when he wants it no. 1. If not then the asset should be sold and the money goes to his family.

And as far as the beneficiaries of these "required" courses that just happen to all come from one private company. I'll never spend another cent in that store. !!!

Pretend to be one of us ? If you knew about why not say something?

I will have to re-read this thread later before making any comments. I missed the part about this "private business" and it's employees getting the courses completed so they could check off more boxes. One thing that surprises me is that substantial "improvements" like a cabin are not being grandfathered in as assets that have to be accounted for somehow.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ljbb

Here is something we could give some thought on. Why would the srd say you have to hand in there reciepts in 2017? How about asking for there fur reciepts for the past five years or since you have owned your rfma? I no that lots of us keep there reciepts and you can look up your accounts on nafa web site. So why give the guys who have traplines a chance to so called start trapping there lines now. I have put in my time on my line and proud of it and will continue to do so. I do understand logging oil field and may be the lack of fur play a role why you didnt trap but you can explain that to srd.

We all do a fur harvest report every year. It is a declaration and when you sign it you are executing a legal document. I can drive a car, get married or borrow millions on the strength of that same signature but suddenly one legal document isn't enough for them? As well there is no law that says I have to sell my fur, I have freezers full right now waiting for a market. Some go to taxi some to tan - all of which is my business. Are we supposed to give up our right to market as we see fit? Are we not allowed to diversify? I thought the dippers invented that word. If they don't believe my declaration they can ask for further documentation or come look in my freezers. This fur receipt BS is simply an end run to another game by the GOA .

[drake]

Originally Posted by 209x50

We all do a fur harvest report every year. It is a declaration and when you sign it you are executing a legal document. I can drive a car, get married or borrow millions on the strength of that same signature but suddenly one legal document isn't enough for them? As well there is no law that says I have to sell my fur, I have freezers full right now waiting for a market. Some go to taxi some to tan - all of which is my business. Are we supposed to give up our right to market as we see fit? Are we not allowed to diversify? I thought the dippers invented that word. If they don't believe my declaration they can ask for further documentation or come look in my freezers. This fur receipt BS is simply an end run to another game by the GOA .

we agree on something!...good post

[Seige]

Ain't that the truth!

There is no way anyone is gonna force me to sell furs that I work my but off with blood, sweat and tears for any less than what I deem industry acceptable!
It is the most ludicrous theory and idea they can come up with!
300 years this has been an fundamental industry and these people want to change it around? Unreal.
Yep the lines need to be utilized, screwing over guys who've sacrificed a lot for theirs is unacceptable!

I've seen some disgustingly self sabotage between trappers that's is near juvenile! No fingers, just calling a spade a spade... Guys and gals we have to stick together

And that goes right up to the "top", I've attempted discussion with an ex pres(not Gordy) who is so passionate (which is great) yet so stuck with blinders on that he can't hear any other thoughts or ideas as his own, and openly throws others long term trappers under the bus in front of newcomers for possibly not sharing the exact same views, and also shuts down any form of convo when the other doesn't automatically assume the position of Sheeple!

It's sad, we all have to come together and agree on what "mountain is worth dying on"

And as far as these new changes and rules, or necessary courses to be taken in order to gain points.. lol .. What did they expect

Ornery mountain men to just agree and abide by any new graduates idea of wide swept changes to the same system that's been in place for centuries!?

I sure hope that they understand and empathize that an awful lot of trappers, outdoorsmen and "mountain men" usually find their life route by trying to avoid society and all the rules and regulations, and just want to be left alone, to do their thing legally and without harassment.

I just felt I had to say, at first it was really bad, but now I'm happy to see everyone coming together a lot more it's what we need to do.. And like what was mentioned I hope everyone of us can make it to a local meeting and combine our heads.. And that our association will represent us in the manner that the majority desire.. Not what few do!

And that's not a dig, honest, that's me who's worked Union for 20 years and have witnessed the misrepresentation of its members(the frontline) in a matter that the few at the top hope to promote their own wishes!
and sadly that's just a learned knee jerk response when it comes to "organizations"

The reaction by many should not have been so "unexpected" it should have been more transparent by those involved right off the bat!(and if that's solely and truly gov't's fault same goes)

To see others react the way they did, then ridiculed to the point of apologizing is repulsive!
They reacted the same way anyone would have under the same circumstances and anyone that pretends they wouldn't, ya right.. If one can't empathize and see exactly how it did look initially then I don't know what to tell ya.
If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck... Let's just pray to god it's an ostrich

Hopefully now the Government will be more inclusive with those of us voted in to represent, when they get any more hair brained ideas of attempting to make improvements.

As long as we can all come together and find some common ground, I feel everything will work out!

End of 1/2 rant, 1/2 pat on the back seeing everyone calm down a lil and start to come together. I've been hoping to see that

[drake]

Originally Posted by Seige

Ain't that the truth!

There is no way anyone is gonna force me to sell furs that I work my but off with blood, sweat and tears for any less than what I deem industry acceptable!
It is the most ludicrous theory and idea they can come up with!
300 years this has been an fundamental industry and these people want to change it around? Unreal.
Yep the lines need to be utilized, screwing over guys who've sacrificed a lot for theirs is unacceptable!

I've seen some disgustingly self sabotage between trappers that's is near juvenile! No fingers, just calling a spade a spade... Guys and gals we have to stick together

And that goes right up to the "top", I've attempted discussion with an ex pres(not Gordy) who is so passionate (which is great) yet so stuck with blinders on that he can't hear any other thoughts or ideas as his own, and openly throws others long term trappers under the bus in front of newcomers for possibly not sharing the exact same views, and also shuts down any form of convo when the other doesn't automatically assume the position of Sheeple!

It's sad, we all have to come together and agree on what "mountain is worth dying on"

And as far as these new changes and rules, or necessary courses to be taken in order to gain points.. lol .. What did they expect

Ornery mountain men to just agree and abide by any new graduates idea of wide swept changes to the same system that's been in place for centuries!?

I sure hope that they understand and empathize that an awful lot of trappers, outdoorsmen and "mountain men" usually find their life route by trying to avoid society and all the rules and regulations, and just want to be left alone, to do their thing legally and without harassment.

I just felt I had to say, at first it was really bad, but now I'm happy to see everyone coming together a lot more it's what we need to do.. And like what was mentioned I hope everyone of us can make it to a local meeting and combine our heads.. And that our association will represent us in the manner that the majority desire.. Not what few do!

And that's not a dig, honest, that's me who's worked Union for 20 years and have witnessed the misrepresentation of its members(the frontline) in a matter that the few at the top hope to promote their own wishes!
and sadly that's just a learned knee jerk response when it comes to "organizations"

The reaction by many should not have been so "unexpected" it should have been more transparent by those involved right off the bat!(and if that's solely and truly gov't's fault same goes)

To see others react the way they did, then ridiculed to the point of apologizing is repulsive!
They reacted the same way anyone would have under the same circumstances and anyone that pretends they wouldn't, ya right.. If one can't empathize and see exactly how it did look initially then I don't know what to tell ya.
If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck... Let's just pray to god it's an ostrich

Hopefully now the Government will be more inclusive with those of us voted in to represent, when they get any more hair brained ideas of attempting to make improvements.

As long as we can all come together and find some common ground, I feel everything will work out!

End of 1/2 rant, 1/2 pat on the back seeing everyone calm down a lil and start to come together. I've been hoping to see that

I agree with a lot of what you have said. The bios have had the trapping portfolio thrust upon them and are trying to navigate the waters whilst working under an uber progressive regime. In order to affect change trappers need to have a clear agenda and bring forth reasonable arguments. Understanding and accepting the realities and facts surrounding trapline "ownership" (basically defining what that means today and what we want it to look like tmrw) is fundamental to the fight. These are challenging questions and the realities can be hard to swallow for many who have invested lots of blood, sweat, tears and $$$$$$. I challenge everyone to get involved with their ATA local and voice honest concerns, questions and opinions. There are no sacred cows and everything should be up for debate and discussion.

[ljbb]

So Rich whats the answer? Everyone wants to trap with your show showing how much fun it is, what can you expect?

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ljbb

So Rich whats the answer? Everyone wants to trap with your show showing how much fun it is, what can you expect?

What's the question?

We have always had to report fur catch and trapping has always been highly regulated. Many of the regulations have never been enforced and the GOA and the bios blame US for that. Go figure. The bio I spoke with claimed they didn't have the people to check on everyone so they needed a new reporting system. I told him that wasn't my fault. He said yes it was my problem. I told him there was never going to be a system that didn't require enforcement. His eyes glazed over at that. I asked why I had to provide fur reciepts and basically prove for the second time what my fur report said. He claims that when people come in they can't remember what they caught for fur so this would help. I pointed out that they could look at their fur reciepts at home and be accurate. I pointed out that fur is seldom sold in the same season it is caught. I asked again how this fur reciept was going to make this less confusing. His eyes glazed over yet again and he said they were going to demand it. So it isn't about insuring the line is being used what then is the actual end game here. I do know I hate being labeled a liar and having to prove my innocence every time I walk through their door. So far they haven't garnered any respect, loyalty or cooperation from me.
I might point out those 5 year reviews are evolving into the Spanish Inquisition. Pay attention to the facts that you can over trap, under trap and have accidental catches all be held against you at your review.

The ATA knows all my concerns and will be bringing them to the table. Like so many dealings with dippers I feel there is misdirection happening here and they get everyone wound up over the transfer of assets in the hopes no one looks at the underhanded game going on.

[norma mag]

Originally Posted by rcmc

Question for Braian or anyone else, does anyone know how the proposed changes will effect the Resident Trapper?

ya just wanderin if ill be able to head out with a handful of snares or 2 next year?

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by norma mag

ya just wanderin if ill be able to head out with a handful of snares or 2 next year?

You will have no problem doing that.