Edmonton Mask Mandate Not Based On Science!

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Scott h

This is real time data. Patients need follow up and will change day to day. Just because a 48 year old post covid patient needs 2 liters of O2 to get up to the toilet today doesn't mean he will need it in 6 months. He may need more or less by Christmas, or he may be dead.
There will be people making this data their entire careers work and it will come out as it's compiled and published.
Hasn't it occurred to you why REAL doc's all over the world have been so worried?

I have compiled and presented data for a career. Yes it does change, but lets have a snapshot of current known data. You have quoted numbers. I am simply asking you to back up your claims.

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Scott h

https://www.tctmd.com/news/signs-car...id-19-patients

Not a link please. The actual numbers in Alberta....like I have provided.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

Still waiting on this rock solid source of data Scott.....

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...=featured_home

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Scott h

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105...=featured_home

Read post #123

[CBintheNorth]

Originally Posted by Scott h

This is real time data. Patients need follow up and will change day to day. Just because a 48 year old post covid patient needs 2 liters of O2 to get up to the toilet today doesn't mean he will need it in 6 months. He may need more or less by Christmas, or he may be dead.
There will be people making this data their entire careers work and it will come out as it's compiled and published.
Hasn't it occurred to you why REAL doc's all over the world have been so worried?

I know 3 "REAL" doc's, and a couple of nurses. None of them are overly worried. Only one thinks it's a good idea for people to wear masks in public.
I read the nurses your comments and they would like to know where you work, because they have seen very little of what you describe. One works at the Alex and the other at the Mis.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Bergerboy

I have compiled and presented data for a career. Yes it does change, but lets have a snapshot of current known data. You have quoted numbers. I am simply asking you to back up your claims.

Are you sure you're 48 and not 14 ?????

[Bergerboy]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Are you sure you're 48 and not 14 ?????

47 sir....no need for the ad hominem, just answer.

[Talking moose]

Oh Scotty.......

[Ken07AOVette]

Has anyone mentioned in this thread that it has been found to cause diabetes and or liver/kidney issues?

Haven't read them all, seems to be the old 'it's not that bad, I'm not 80, and its a scam' in a lot of the replies.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Has anyone mentioned in this thread that it has been found to cause diabetes and or liver/kidney issues?

Haven't read them all, seems to be the old 'it's not that bad, I'm not 80, and its a scam' in a lot of the replies.

That's because its not that bad. It does cause issues in some people with regards to organ damage and clotting. But 98% of people will not show symptoms(at least to the point they need to be tested), 0.15% will be hospitalized, and .05% will die unfortunately.

When the lockdown started the projected death rate in Canada was 1.5-3M people, with over 6M needing the ICU. We won't even be close to those numbers. I think we need to put things back in perspective, stop the insanity and admit Covid-19 while severe is nowhere near what was expected.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Has anyone mentioned in this thread that it has been found to cause diabetes and or liver/kidney issues?

Haven't read them all, seems to be the old 'it's not that bad, I'm not 80, and its a scam' in a lot of the replies.

Perhaps more people are seeing doctors than they normally would? Maybe doctors are doing more tests than they normally would?

Diabetes is nasty, many people are probably close to type2.

Liver, many people drink and do other things that they won't admit to.

Fairly common ailments.


Would our hospitals not be overwhelmed with all things covid may cause? One would think there would be some concern made by now. Being kept as quite as T cells. Lots of theories.

[fishnguy]

Weird that the 5-8 same people trying to prove to each other the same thing over and over again. Guess I will join in one more time, lol.

A couple of things I posted in other threads:

1. In regards to masks and their previously stated inefficiency and all of a sudden change of minds in the scientific community:

Originally Posted by fishnguy

Ever noticed how masks have been available in the hospitals at every entrance and those with cold/flu symptoms were and are required to put one on for years now? The reason would be to protect other people around. If masks didn’t help, that wouldn’t be the case, would it? Common sense suggests that research has shown that they help long time ago (and if one cares to look, one will find that this is the case).

2. In regard to Sweden, I posted in another thread:

Originally Posted by fishnguy

NYT: Sweden Records Highest Death Tally in 150 Years in First Six Months of 2020

Sweden, which has stood out among European countries for its low-key approach to fighting the coronavirus pandemic, recorded its highest tally of deaths in the first half of 2020 for 150 years, the Statistics Office said on Wednesday.

COVID-19 claimed about 4,500 lives in the period to the end of June - a number which has now risen to 5,800 - a much higher percentage of the population than in other Nordic nations, though lower than in some others including Britain and Spain.

In total, 51,405 Swedes died in the January to June period, a higher number than any year since 1869 when 55,431 died, partly as a result of a famine. The population of Sweden was around 4.1 million then, compared to 10.3 million now.

COVID-19 meant that deaths were some 10 percent higher than the average for the period over the last five years, the Statistics Office said. In April the number of deaths was almost 40% higher than average due to a surge in COVID-related fatalities.
Sweden has taken a different approach to most European countries in dealing with the pandemic, relying to a greater extent on voluntary measures focused on social distancing and opting against a strict lockdown.

Most schools have remained open and many businesses have been continued to operate to some extent, meaning the economy has fared better than many others.

However, the death toll has been higher than in its Nordic neighbours, which opted for tougher lockdown measures. Norway, with around half the population, has had only around 260 COVID deaths in total.

The economy of Finland also outperformed its larger neighbour in the second quarter, despite a tougher lockdown. Finland's gross domestic product shrank around 5% against an 8.6% contraction in Sweden from the previous three-month period.

How about the great response of Sweden? Myths are going to be myths.

Also, my mother-in-law talked to her mom who lives in Sweden today and then she told me “My mother is going to have a surgery”. I said “Another one? Didn’t she have one back in March or April?” She said “No, they cancelled all surgeries due to COVID and getting back to it only now.”

And that last paragraph in that article for the “saved the economy” crew.

And to compare it to Finland, since such comparison was made in the article and definitely more appropriate than comparing Sweden to Canada or other non-Nordic countries:

- Population: 10.5M vs 5.5M;
- Covid fatalities: 5,805 vs 334 (5.61 per 10,000 vs 0.60 per 10,000);
- Q1 GDP contraction: 0.4% vs 0.9%
- Q2 GDP contraction: 8.6% vs 5%.

Take it for what you will. These are real numbers.

[HalfBreed]

I'd imagine many are on the AIDS bandwagon.

Who actually knows anyone that died of AIDS?

[fishnguy]

Originally Posted by HalfBreed

I'd imagine many are on the AIDS bandwagon.

Who actually knows anyone that died of AIDS?

Lol. You guys are funny. According to CDC,

Today, there are more than 1.1 million people living with HIV and more than 700,000 people with AIDS have died since the beginning of the epidemic.

Have you ever heard of someone contracting HIV by breathing the same air with the infected person?

That’s since 1980 whatever year it was. Over 797,000 reportedly died due to Covid since the beginning of this year.

Also, you might be surprised, but in the US

In FY 2019, U.S. federal funding to combat HIV totaled $34.8 billion, of which $28 billion was for domestic HIV efforts.

So yes, your imagination is correct, some people are still on the AIDS bandwagon.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Your source is CBC I suggest the same!!

I don't believe I have EVER used CBC as my source ……

......… sorry that you were offended when I said the Rebel is a trash rag ......….that clearly hit a nerve for you.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by raab

Yes, my point as EZM so nicely pointed out is even in the worst hit country in the world. The virus has stabilized and they will start seeing a decline in numbers. The US and Sweden are our worst case scenarios. Transmission rate of approximately 1, 0.05 overall death rate, 0.15% hospitalization rate, and 2% of the population showing symptoms. To put this in perspective in Canada with a worst case scenario we'll see approximately 750000 cases, 56385 hospitalizations, and 18,000 deaths in a country of 37.59M. Were already at 9000 deaths as we speak. So if there is another wave of this and it gets bad it won't be any worse then what we've already been through.

Where did I say the virus has stabilized?

It seems the new infection rates are continuing to climb and are currently at an all time high.

Correlative to that, the unresolved cases are also climbing.

The current ratio is one unresolved case versus one resolved case - but now unresolved cases - in recent days, has overtaken resolved cases - which indicates a worsening situation when looking at it as an infectious disease. That, in it of itself, shows that virus in not in control and certainly isn't stabilized.

This means that of the 175,000 already dead - the expected deaths based on the current cases will exceed an additional 175,000 (total of 350,000) and that expected death toll number keeps climbing daily.

Keep in mind even if an effective vaccine is available tomorrow and everyone in the country gets the vaccine tomorrow - there will still be 350,000 deaths if it all magically stops.

I would suggest we stick to data driven information from credible sources to discuss this issue - that may open up your eyes here. This is far from in control or stabilized in the USA.

The administration even admits this will get worse as we enter fall.

That does not sound like stable to me.

[AndrewM]

Interesting article about thoughts vs reality:

https://www.franklintempletonnordic....m-science.html

[raab]

Originally Posted by EZM

Where did I say the virus has stabilized?

It seems the new infection rates are continuing to climb and are currently at an all time high.

Correlative to that, the unresolved cases are also climbing.

The current ratio is one unresolved case versus one resolved case - but now unresolved cases - in recent days, has overtaken resolved cases - which indicates a worsening situation when looking at it as an infectious disease. That, in it of itself, shows that virus in not in control and certainly isn't stabilized.

This means that of the 175,000 already dead - the expected deaths based on the current cases will exceed an additional 175,000 (total of 350,000) and that expected death toll number keeps climbing daily.

Keep in mind even if an effective vaccine is available tomorrow and everyone in the country gets the vaccine tomorrow - there will still be 350,000 deaths if it all magically stops.

I would suggest we stick to data driven information from credible sources to discuss this issue - that may open up your eyes here. This is far from in control or stabilized in the USA.

The administration even admits this will get worse as we enter fall.

That does not sound like stable to me.

You clearly don't understand what the transmission rate means. This is worth reading. You may learn why I'm saying this pandemic is overblown. In the article it predicted a Ro of 5.7 for Covid. When in reality its right around 1.

https://www.healthline.com/health/r-...duction-number

Also you're assuming the death rate stays the same. This simply hasn't been the case anywhere. All the curves are the same an initial period with a high death rate, which tapers off.

[lastlatvian]

[raab]

Originally Posted by AndrewM

Interesting article about thoughts vs reality:

https://www.franklintempletonnordic....m-science.html

Very good article, thanks for posting.

[AndrewM]

Of course masks work for filtering water droplets though which Covid attaches to. Many experiments showing that and we have all experienced this in the winter if we cover our mouths and the fabric gets frosty. I don’t wear one in the stores for myself, I wear it for the over 55 people who are most at risk.

[Sundancefisher]

Can’t compare flu and Covid. Two different beasts

Covid attacks older people hard.
Flu attacks kids hard.

People that catch flu every year ranges in studies from 3-11% in symptomatic people up to 5-20% in both symptomatic and asymptomatic people.


https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/keyfacts.htm

[Sundancefisher]

it Seems a big loop hole in travel is people with dual citizenship going back and forth to the US on a regular basis.

[EZM]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

it Seems a big loop hole in travel is people with dual citizenship going back and forth to the US on a regular basis.

Yes there is.

My wife and both kids fall into this category. My wife and daughter have not crossed the border, but my son has, without any restriction from Customs/Immigration themselves. They are dual citizens.

There was a bit of "hassle" from the government's health advisor who randomly "pulled him over" after he cleared customs - but because he had a good plan (as we all did as a family) he, at some point, cut it short and left her his number with her and reminded her she does not have the ability to restrict his entry and thanked her for reminding him several times about jail time, random monitoring and verifying his plan ..... but he is impatient and, to be honest, I doubt many other people prepared the way we did for his visit - so it is what it is.

Yeah, there's a loophole.

There are people travelling everyday back and forth. My work visa allows me to do that as well - but I have stayed put to do my part.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Can’t compare flu and Covid. Two different beasts

Covid attacks older people hard.
Flu attacks kids hard.

People that catch flu every year ranges in studies from 3-11% in symptomatic people up to 5-20% in both symptomatic and asymptomatic people.


https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/keyfacts.htm

So why aren’t we locking down and closing schools for the flu?

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by MountainTi

LOL. Good lord. Like a giant black cloud
I asked previously, there have been numerous professional athletes who tested positive for the vid.
How many of them have long term health issues? Seem to be a lot of them playing hockey, baseball, ect... right now. Haven't heard of a one.
How many other previously healthy adults are now saddled with these so called long term health issues?

Eduaro Rodriguez MLB player with heart problems post covid.

There have also been 10 or so NCAA football players that have varying degrees of cardiovascular problems.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by chuck

So why aren’t we locking down and closing schools for the flu?

Less contagious
Less deadly
Vaccines are available.

[raab]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

Less contagious
Less deadly
Vaccines are available.

Covid is less contagious then the flu, but is more severe and theres no effective treatment. In saying that we should remember what happen with regards to a rushed H1N1 vaccine. I for one will not be getting a Covid vaccine if it ever is produced. https://saultonline.com/2020/05/the-...tale-for-2020/

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by raab

Covid is less contagious then the flu, but is more severe and theres no effective treatment. In saying that we should remember what happen with regards to a rushed H1N1 vaccine. I for one will not be getting a Covid vaccine if it ever is produced. https://saultonline.com/2020/05/the-...tale-for-2020/

Your wrong.

Mass spreader events are well documented for Covid. Spread has been far faster.

As for an article taking about 1976 science and technology and saying you won’t get vaccinated ever after current trials prove it is safe and effective.

Hopefully you look past poor logic once all the info on a vaccine is released. Unless you are at high risk, your dose likely won’t be available for 6-12 months so you will have even more info to base a decision on.

Lol

That being said...if you are under 65 and are not overweight or have lung, heart problems or diabetes...you are only risking the loved ones and friends around you who also don’t get vaccinated or can’t.

Treatment for Covid has come a long ways in 2020...but you still don’t want to fall in a bad demographic.

[lastlatvian]

Originally Posted by gottspeed

The reason there is so much mask controversy is that people who use the internet for things other than reading about guns, porn, facebook and cbc have been able to communicate with impartial people all over the world and expose a global plot to enslave humanity. Most people still live in neverland however and believe that people with unlimited money and near unlimited power don’t take issue with a ballooning population of knuckle dragging mouth breathers.

You can literally read a document called “lockstep” by the Rockefeller foundation that describes using a global crisis like covid to seal the deal on global law-making. If you’re so inclined, but most people aren’t. Same foundation that helped establish the Chinese “cultural” revolution by the way which has striking similarities to what’s happening now in the west.

First it was don’t wear masks, until their engineered virus fell flat on its face, now, it’s everyone needs to wear a mask so covid seems like a big enough deal to warrant mandatory vaccinations which are a violation of the nuremberg code.

Masks and forced vaccinations are the powers that be going “all in” on their globalist gambit. It’s now or never for them because with the internet, people are slowly cluing in that they’ve been getting screwed for generations and their kids are about to get the worst deal ever.

Keep wearing your masks though. Be ashamed, abide. Reject logic. Like the Chinese did. It’s the way of the left.

I have not laughed this hard in years.