Flasher questions

[omega50]

Having never used a flasher I am curious as to the info that is displayed.

I get that if I was jigging I could see my jig moving.

But what if I had a pickerel rig on?

Would it differentiate between both hooks. What if I had 3 hooks like on a ice fishing spreader but each hook snelled to a different length?

Sorry for the newbie question

[338Bluff]

Originally Posted by omega50

Having never used a flasher I am curious as to the info that is displayed.

I get that if I was jigging I could see my jig moving.

But what if I had a pickerel rig on?

Would it differentiate between both hooks. What if I had 3 hooks like on a ice fishing spreader but each hook snelled to a different length?

Sorry for the newbie question

Yes to everything. It is a game changer! Even the entry level Marcum will work well.

[riden]

Not to hi-jack too bad, how important is it to spend big money? I am thinking of buying one and have heard even the cheaper ones work great.

[RavYak]

Ability to differentiate hooks will somewhat depend on the unit as they have different target separation. A pickeral rig would probably show up a little weird as you would have 2 hooks and the 2 t bars and even swivel etc that would show up so it might look a bit like a Christmas tree.

riden, the cheap units are good basic units that suit 90% of users. The higher end units are mainly big improvements for fishing in deep water(like 40+ feet going for lake trout etc) as well as some better zoom function, colour palettes etc. If you are fishing under 40 fow for pike, walleye, perch, trout etc then any of the units will work good enough for most people.

[omega50]

In my mind I picture the transducer sending down in a cone shape.

If that is true how wide of a cone? And would not the cone be wider at a greater depth?

Does the transducer have to be in the hole you are fishing? Does this present a tangle hazard? Or does it constantly have to be removed for bait checks etc?

Would it work on a frozen river with some current?

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by omega50

In my mind I picture the transducer sending down in a cone shape.

If that is true how wide of a cone? And would not the cone be wider at a greater depth?

Does the transducer have to be in the hole you are fishing? Does this present a tangle hazard? Or does it constantly have to be removed for bait checks etc?

Would it work on a frozen river with some current?

Yes a cone angle. Yes wider at depth, that is why the more expensive units have a 2nd narrower beam for deep water fishing(Ice 55, LX5, LX7 etc). Standard cones are ~20 deg, narrow usually ~8 deg, bottom coverage = depth*sin(cone angle) so with 20 deg 10 fow seeing ~3.5 foot diameter. 20 fow(7 ft diameter).

If you are fishing shallow water need to have transducer in hole, rarely an issue for tangles except when landing fish in which case you should remove the transducer. If fishing deep enough water(~20 fow) you can drill a 2nd hole beside first one and use that for your transducer if preferred.

Flashers are just sonar so yes current doesn't affect it other then perhaps slightly angling transducer. Although a heads up here in AB it is illegal to ice fish into beaver ponds or flowing waters anyways so rivers are a no go.

[omega50]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Yes a cone angle. Yes wider at depth, that is why the more expensive units have a 2nd narrower beam for deep water fishing(Ice 55, LX5, LX7 etc). Standard cones are ~20 deg, narrow usually ~8 deg, bottom coverage = depth*sin(cone angle) so with 20 deg 10 fow seeing ~3.5 foot diameter. 20 fow(7 ft diameter).

If you are fishing shallow water need to have transducer in hole, rarely an issue for tangles except when landing fish in which case you should remove the transducer. If fishing deep enough water(~20 fow) you can drill a 2nd hole beside first one and use that for your transducer if preferred.

Flashers are just sonar so yes current doesn't affect it other then perhaps slightly angling transducer. Although a heads up here in AB it is illegal to ice fish into beaver ponds or flowing waters anyways so rivers are a no go.

I guess my thought was if your jig was drifting from directly under your hole by any flow then it would render any surface based flasher useless.

I was thinking back to my Manitoba days spent ice fishing on the Red River outside of Selkirk where drift was significant.

Trying to wrap my head around all of the benefits as well as possible limitations of the technology

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by omega50

I guess my thought was if your jig was drifting from directly under your hole by any flow then it would render any surface based flasher useless.

I was thinking back to my Manitoba days spent ice fishing on the Red River outside of Selkirk where drift was significant.

Trying to wrap my head around all of the benefits as well as possible limitations of the technology

Yes drifting could be an issue I guess, good thing you don't have to worry about that here lol.

Biggest advantage of a flasher is knowing if there are fish in an area. Also being able to instantly determine depth.

If you are fishing blind you never know if you are in a bad spot or if you are using the wrong lure or if the fish just aren't biting. You can spend the whole day wondering what is wrong. With the flasher you know there are no fish there so you try a different spot, or you see them coming up and refusing your lure so you know to change things up. Or in some cases you realize that the fish are suspended not down at the bottom where you are fishing.

I will never ice fish without either a flasher or camera(unless sight fishing). I would quit ice fishing before I had to give up my toys lol.

[omega50]

So let's say for example that your jig was the center of a compass point and there were fish marked N-E-W-S in relation to your jig. Some above your jig and some below. Some large fish and some small.

Would a flasher give you enough info to strategically pick them all off like shooting grouse out of a tree without disturbing the whole school?

[cube]

.

[Tom Pullings]

I thought flashers only displayed depth of things in an up and down fashion. Didn't know they could represent side to side movements. Learning lots today!

[Andy44]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Yes a cone angle. Yes wider at depth, that is why the more expensive units have a 2nd narrower beam for deep water fishing(Ice 55, LX5, LX7 etc). Standard cones are ~20 deg, narrow usually ~8 deg, bottom coverage = depth*sin(cone angle) so with 20 deg 10 fow seeing ~3.5 foot diameter. 20 fow(7 ft diameter).

All of the Humminbird Ice models (35 -45) are dual beam. You can switch between 19° and 9°. That was a major selling point for me so I thought I'd just let OP know. The bigger screen compared to the Marcums was also nice. It's also easy to modifiy the humminbirds and add an arm if the float annoys you.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by Andy44

All of the Humminbird Ice models (35 -45) are dual beam. You can switch between 19° and 9°. That was a major selling point for me so I thought I'd just let OP know. The bigger screen compared to the Marcums was also nice. It's also easy to modifiy the humminbirds and add an arm if the float annoys you.

Yes I know, the 35 does have dual beam but for some reason it doesn't do that great in deep water, maybe because it doesn't have enough power or something but I have seen a few guys complain about not being able to pick up their lure in deep water.

I use a 55 and like it a lot, the case, more power, digital display all make it worthwhile to me to go with over the 35. The 35 is a good unit considering its price point though.

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by RavYak

Yes drifting could be an issue I guess, good thing you don't have to worry about that here lol.

Biggest advantage of a flasher is knowing if there are fish in an area. Also being able to instantly determine depth.

If you are fishing blind you never know if you are in a bad spot or if you are using the wrong lure or if the fish just aren't biting. You can spend the whole day wondering what is wrong. With the flasher you know there are no fish there so you try a different spot, or you see them coming up and refusing your lure so you know to change things up. Or in some cases you realize that the fish are suspended not down at the bottom where you are fishing.

I will never ice fish without either a flasher or camera(unless sight fishing). I would quit ice fishing before I had to give up my toys lol.

X2 This sums up a flasher perfectly.

Only thing I would add.. In shallow water it is kind of usless though as the cone angle is so small, and you can likely see the fish anyways. .. but if you go deep for lakers or such, it is worth its weight in gold lol.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by omega50

So let's say for example that your jig was the center of a compass point and there were fish marked N-E-W-S in relation to your jig. Some above your jig and some below. Some large fish and some small.

Would a flasher give you enough info to strategically pick them all off like shooting grouse out of a tree without disturbing the whole school?

A flasher like any sonar is going to tell you the distance any object is from the transducer.

You don't know what direction they are from your lure or where they are in your cone angle although as a fish comes further into your cone angle they give a stronger return.

You can tell a big fish from a small fish but that takes practice and requires interpretation as a big fish on the edge of your cone might give a weaker return then a small fish in the middle of your cone.

You are overthinking this, if you want to be able to pin point a certain fish in a school then get a camera. If you want to know if there are fish in an area, know depth, know if fish do/do not like your lure and if they are chasing or lethargic then a flasher will do all that. They aren't magic and won't automatically catch you a fish though lol.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by omega50

So let's say for example that your jig was the center of a compass point and there were fish marked N-E-W-S in relation to your jig. Some above your jig and some below. Some large fish and some small.

Would a flasher give you enough info to strategically pick them all off like shooting grouse out of a tree without disturbing the whole school?

I have an ICE45. It is more of a depth device and not much of lateral device. Only hard targets in the cone will be picked up. The intensity of the colour palette will determine if a fish is well within the cone or on the outside extremes of the cone. You cannot tell if a target is NSEW. If a target is being picked up at the extreme outside edges of the cone it will show up as green/orange. If a fish is in the centre of the cone it will be red. A larger fish will present a larger red area. You can place your bait at the same level as the fish.......that's as much as you can do.

[Wallman67]

My ice 35 shows my swivel , the top jig a and the bottom jig . This is my usual set up with one jig on the bottom , the top one up about a foot , then the swivel up about 6 inches from that.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Wallman67

My ice 35 shows my swivel , the top jig a and the bottom jig . This is my usual set up with one jig on the bottom , the top one up about a foot , then the swivel up about 6 inches from that.

I thought that was awesome when I bought my Ice 45. Fishing in 150 fow and seeing my bait......... and my tiny swivel 6 ft above the bait

[omega50]

Originally Posted by RavYak

A flasher like any sonar is going to tell you the distance any object is from the transducer.

You don't know what direction they are from your lure or where they are in your cone angle although as a fish comes further into your cone angle they give a stronger return.

You can tell a big fish from a small fish but that takes practice and requires interpretation as a big fish on the edge of your cone might give a weaker return then a small fish in the middle of your cone.

You are overthinking this, if you want to be able to pin point a certain fish in a school then get a camera. If you want to know if there are fish in an area, know depth, know if fish do/do not like your lure and if they are chasing or lethargic then a flasher will do all that. They aren't magic and won't automatically catch you a fish though lol.

Just trying to understand value gained vs the price tag.
Approaching $700 for a better one and I am trying to understand what it can and can't do.

I do sincerely appreciate all the patient responses.

Based on what I am hearing a camera seems like a better fit for me and more fun per $

Seems like the technology is still in relative infancy.

In my mind conceptually if the vertical column was able to mark a fish at say 6 feet below the hole and then a 2nd transducer could be set to 90 degrees and lowered to that depth would a computer assisted interpretation not be able to give direction of travel of the fish in more than one plane?

Why are these devices so limited? Overthinking for sure, but that is what I would need it to do before it would be worth $700 to me

[SamSteele]

Originally Posted by omega50

Does the transducer have to be in the hole you are fishing? Does this present a tangle hazard? Or does it constantly have to be removed for bait checks etc?



Would it work on a frozen river with some current?

Ive watched some videos where guys drill two holes and fish out of the upstream one and have the flasher in the downstream one. Distance between the holes depends on current and depth.

SS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Russ C]

Originally Posted by omega50

Just trying to understand value gained vs the price tag.
Approaching $700 for a better one and I am trying to understand what it can and can't do.

I do sincerely appreciate all the patient responses.

Based on what I am hearing a camera seems like a better fit for me and more fun per $

Seems like the technology is still in relative infancy.

In my mind conceptually if the vertical column was able to mark a fish at say 6 feet below the hole and then a 2nd transducer could be set to 90 degrees and lowered to that depth would a computer assisted interpretation not be able to give direction of travel of the fish in more than one plane?

Why are these devices so limited? Overthinking for sure, but that is what I would need it to do before it would be worth $700 to me

Camera's are a great ice fishing tool but be aware that in dirty or murky water the camera will not be very effective. As well in low light conditions ( a thick layer of snow on the ice or a cloudy day ) the camera will be just about useless. I purchased a flasher before purchasing a camera and use the flasher all the time. The camera comes out only some of the time. If I were you I would get the flasher first. Russ C

[huntsfurfish]

Omega50 do you have a boat?

If you fish for walleye, perch and pike and are fishing less than 30 fow.

If the lakes you fish are clear or fairly clear.

If you are a daylight fisherman.

If you have an idea of the lakes you fish.

A camera will serve you quite well if you answered yes to the above ifs

If you have a boat with a fishfinder you can use it for double duty.

Also to simplify things you can think of it as a cone(related to transducer cone). And if you want you can do a search(google) and find out more about transducer cones and how they look/work.

Chances are you will end up with both anyway.

[RavYak]

Originally Posted by omega50

Just trying to understand value gained vs the price tag.
Approaching $700 for a better one and I am trying to understand what it can and can't do.

I do sincerely appreciate all the patient responses.

Based on what I am hearing a camera seems like a better fit for me and more fun per $

Seems like the technology is still in relative infancy.

In my mind conceptually if the vertical column was able to mark a fish at say 6 feet below the hole and then a 2nd transducer could be set to 90 degrees and lowered to that depth would a computer assisted interpretation not be able to give direction of travel of the fish in more than one plane?

Why are these devices so limited? Overthinking for sure, but that is what I would need it to do before it would be worth $700 to me

Cameras have more limitations then flashers. They need light to operate so are no good at dawn, dusk or night or on really dirty lakes. They also take time to set up and require a 2nd hole so they are of little use when hole hopping and you only see the direction and depth your camera is set up at. Some species can be camera shy too, whitefish being the main one but there have been times with all other species that I have wondered why they weren't coming into my lure.

Cameras shine in being able to see the bottom to know if you are set up on rocks, gravel, sand, weeds etc. They allow you to see fish to know what species they are instead of having to interpret based on size of mark and how they act. They also allow you to see each fishes individual attitude which will help you catch some fish by knowing when to jig/not jig. And most importantly on really light bite days you can see the bite on camera even though you can't feel it or see it on your line/rod.

Flashers are 100x better in low light situations or on lakes with really bad visibility. They are far superior for hole hopping and covering ground. They are also far more powerful when fishing for suspended fish, whitefish, trout and lakers all of which can often be suspended whereas pike, walleye and perch are usually on the bottom(the other species mentioned often are too but not always).

Both have their place and it depends on which kind of fishing you do most which one would be the best value. I recommend owning both then you will have the electronics to help you in every situation.

As for your comment about limited capability, I disagree. Flashers same as sonar in the summer are extremely powerful devices, if you don't use either then you will be amazed once you get one. They do have technology like you commented on, but you have to pay thousands for it and it still doesn't work as great as one would hope(not yet anyways).

If you don't think sonar technology alone is worth 700 then buy a cheap flasher in the 400 range. It won't be ideal in the odd situation but it will still get the job done. Then if you can afford it get a decent entry level camera too. The combination is much more valuable then buying a high end flasher or a high end camera imo.

[TylerThomson]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is being able to see fish moving in off bottom. Say your fishing perch in 14 fow and you see one move in at 6 fow. Reel up to him and wham fish on. Caught my biggest of the day last week doing that. Wouldn't have even known it was there without my flasher.

Having a camera and a flasher has changed the game for me. I had a flasher first but couldn't read it half as well as I can now until I got a camera and could see what the flasher was showing me as far as bottom composition goes.

Ate they worth it? Depends on who you are. I fish because it's my happy place. For what I've spent on gear I could have bought a year's worth of groceries. It's worth it for me because this is what I enjoy. If you want one don't worry about features until you have a budget. But the best model you can afford but don't expect a single cone flasher with 1 inch target separation to perform the same as a high end model in a 200 fow.

[sns2]

This is actually a good thread, and there are likely many people asking the same things as the OP. Sometimes on forums we talk about $500 and up items like they are a drop in the bucket. For most of us they are not. This year saw me sell some rifles and take up ice fishing in a big way, as deer hunting just became kind of blah. Ravyak was a big help when I was wanting to know the skinny on flashers. He knows of that which he speaks, so I suggest to all that paying attention is good. As an engineer, he understands these things well, and he is a serious fisherman to boot.

I watched my buddies with flashers over the last few years, and at first didn't think it was that big of a deal. That was until I got one. They really are a game changer. Not only from the perspective of it being like a video game, but they really do help when fish are being finnicky. A) they tell you if there are fish. B) They tell you if the fish actually like what you are doing presentation wise. C) They are a heck of a pile of fun! When you see the fish as a red line takeover your green line (lure), you know it's game on, and the bite usually follows. As for the transducer cluttering the hole it is no big deal. Set the hook with one hand and lift the transducer out with the other. I will never be without one again, they add that much enjoyment.

This year, both Ravyak and Sam Steele have joined me on trips to Slave Lake. Successful ones, btw. Each of them used a camera in addition to a flasher. Ravyak to enrich his fishing. Sam Steele on the other hand had his fine young son manning the camera in the tent while he was out on the ice with the flasher. Right away, the young fella was telling us the species of fish that were swimming by, and from time to time, he'd poke out his head and tell us what he'd yanked out of the hole. Just made for an awesome day of banter back and forth, and obviously added another layer of enjoyment. So guess what came home with me today? The same camera as Sam Steele's boy was running. My guess is that my 13 year old will be using the camera, just like Sam Steele's.

Now, as for how much you need to spend on a flasher. That is up to you. I fish with guys who use Marcum LX7s and I fish with a guy who uses an old Vexilar FL8. I should also mention that the guy who uses the old Vexilar FL8, can easily afford the best of the best of the best. But he says they all do the same thing, show you the bottom, your hook, and any fish in the water column, either above or below. He is right. Sam Steele is running a Marcum VX 1 and I was very impressed with the quality. Unless one is fishing in deep water, over 50 feet or so, I really don't know why you would need anything else. Not that the extra features are superfluous, I just mean to say that even the entry level flashers seem pretty dang awesome to me.

Finally, Wholesale Sports has 15% off most ice fishing electronics right now, so I would jump on one right now, as that will be the best deal you will likely get. I lined up on Boxing Day at the Fishin Hole and they were only offering 10% off, so Wholesale's deals are pretty good right now.

[Shekka]

This thread has me curious.

What about a Fish Hunter 3D? They are relatively cheap in comparison and they have 5 transducers. It also has a ice fishing setting.

I've been thinking of getting one of these for myself.

Something like this?

http://www.fishhunter.com/directional3d/

Here is the ice fishing link they have also:

http://www.fishhunter.com/ice-fishing/

How well do these perform? Sure it can be a battery drain on your phone or tablet. I guess it would depend on how much your going to really use it?

[RavYak]

I don't like the smart phone flashers, all it takes is one phone down a hole and you already paid for a proper flasher and then some.

The 3d and mapping wouldn't work ice fishing, it is effectively just creating a map/3d image like most of the other higher end sonar units now offer by covering ground and recording data.

[Sloughsharkjigger]

Have used camera's, flashers, soft water sonar, sight fishing, laying on the ice and plain old standing on top of the hole thinking the hook is 12" off the bottom. This stuff rocks the "hard water world". All the above methods have produced results to different degrees but hands down (for hard water anyways) the flasher rules the pack.

When first introduced to the technology, the buzz word was "helps catch more"... I asked myself how is this possible? Well I picked one up (5 years ago) and was sold - period! Camera stays home, don't sight fish to often anymore, my neck does not hurt after a day of hard water fishing, and I can still hole-hop just like the old days yet have a touch of technology on my side.

I have caught all species (Alberta anyways), including Whites, with the help of a flasher. Anywhere from 8' to 100' of water... the flasher has told a story... and keeps you in the loop as to what's up down that hole. Bottom, mid-column, or lurking just below the ice you will see and start to understand what all those colors are about. Simple fact, the flasher has given me a split second to prep for the bite.

I like it to the difference of chucking copper/lead with the aid of either a good scope, range finder, binos or just using iron sights. What can or can't you go with-out?

As for brand names... Marcum, Humingbird, Vexilar... all have pros & the should be better. Just remember, expect to fork out $700 to $900 for something you will not regret.

[CNP]

I fish alone more than 50% of the time. No matter if I'm alone or have someone else in the tent...............I drill three holes in a 5 foot line. The middle hole gets the ICE45 and the holes to the left and right are for fishing. It gets a little crowded on the screen with two baits jigging on the screen.........especially if there are extra swivels involved. The flasher sees all lol.

[riden]

Absolutely nothing positive to contribute.

But for someone like myself who plans to but electronics soon, this has been a great thread and very helpful.

Thanks guys.