Dog advice - torn cruciate ligament - TPLO Sugery Update

[Imagehunter]

Went through the same ordeal last year, fortunately we had insurance. I know it doesn't help you now but since the insurance covered most of it, we went with the expensive option where they put some metal plates in the leg and rebuild the joint. Fishing line was another option and a third I don't remember, but we heard that fishing line can often need follow up surgeries so we bit the expensive apple. Insurance is Petsecure and we didn't have to do anything but give the info to the vet and they dealt with everything without any issues afterwards.
Got it done at Western Vet Centre in Calgary by Dr Fugazi, but I heard he left. Whole place and staff was great, surgery and recovery went fine. We got updates from him before and after surgery and a nurse during the procedure, the next day we could meet the dog for the first time and everything got explained in detail. That's when we also got instructions for exercise and therapy, all by a doctor in a separate room, we had nothing to complain afterwards. Making sure the dog doesn't jump and run around was a bit of work as was walking the dog the first times with a sling to keep the weight off the joint. But looking back it was absolutely worth it and the dog is back to normal now as if nothing ever happened. No limping or issues no matter if short or longer walks or excessive playing with other dogs.
If anyone isn't sure about getting insurance for his dog, if you can afford it, look into it. If you think they're a rip off, put some money the equivalent of a rate payment aside each month just in case. We saw quite some sad scenes when people were told what a surgery or treatment will cost them and they knew they couldn't afford even the cheaper options.

[Omotose]

Had the same problem with my 6 year old Chocolate. I didn't want to spend the money but my wife finally talked me into it. Glad we did. Went with the expensive metal plate option. it's been 3 years and she is going strong.

[Albertadiver]

Well, after several months of monitoring Duke's platelets, it seems like he just has a low red blood cell count. He clots well with gum cut tests.

We felt like we couldn't have him continue favoring his other leg and do nothing. He's been happy all summer but we've been very careful about his activities. We've been to the vet a number of times in the interim.

He's having the surgery today in Okotoks with a skilled surgeon that we're comfortable with. Have the house prepped, ramps built, and a room set up to keep him pretty confined and comfortable for the next number of weeks.

We'll be committed to following the recovery and therapy. Thankfully my wife mostly works from home so we're going to hunker down for the next 12 weeks for my buddy and do the best we can for him.

He's going to spend the night because of the possible bleeding concerns. He'll be turning 8 this fall, so glad he's a little more docile than his younger years.

Took him for his last swim for a while on Sunday and a nice gentle long walk yesterday. He's not going to be a happy camper for a while!

[Imagehunter]

Keeping the dog from being the dog it usually is will be a hard time, not only for the dog but for you. Slept by the dog on an air mattress during the time to make sure it doesn't unintentionally mess thing up, seeing it struggle for weeks and being uncomfortable the first days brought up the question 'did we do the right thing?' more than once.
Ultimately we are happy we had the surgery done and since then the dog is back to its old self. It's not just the things like running and playing around, but seeing it being able to do its usual things, lay down comfortable like it used to, properly scratch behind the ear with full force or walk every extra mile to follow you where you go in the house that were worth it.
Good luck for the surgery and the rehab time.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by Imagehunter

Keeping the dog from being the dog it usually is will be a hard time, not only for the dog but for you. Slept by the dog on an air mattress during the time to make sure it doesn't unintentionally mess thing up, seeing it struggle for weeks and being uncomfortable the first days brought up the question 'did we do the right thing?' more than once.
Ultimately we are happy we had the surgery done and since then the dog is back to its old self. It's not just the things like running and playing around, but seeing it being able to do its usual things, lay down comfortable like it used to, properly scratch behind the ear with full force or walk every extra mile to follow you where you go in the house that were worth it.
Good luck for the surgery and the rehab time.

Thx

We pulled the frame and box spring out of the bedroom and just have the foam mattress to prevent him from trying to jump on anything when he starts feeling a little better. Have a kennel / cage set up with a new bed for him.

Basically expecting to be housebound now until Mid December....

[sns2]

I don't know you, but you have shown yourself to be a good man. Glad your boy is going to be on the road to recovery.

[Imagehunter]

Originally Posted by Albertadiver

Basically expecting to be housebound now until Mid December....

Non-dog people won't understand and some will think you're nuts for doing what you're about to do.
But it's all not important when you see your dog get better and getting its usual movement and quality of living back.

[bridger2010]

My lab had same thing. Vet was urging surgery. I waited a year, got her at the right weight, only walking on leash, no stairs, and she is totally fine now. Runs and swims no problem.

[Sooner]

A speedy recovery to your dog. Hope the surgery does the trick.


When my GSP got out and hit by a car, she got a pin in her back leg and we had a similar recovery path. We really didn't have to try to limit her. She knew she had an owie. Just helped her up and down the stairs to go outside. Bought a few extra comforters from Value Village to make her temp sleeping area even more comfy. She was 2 or 3 when hit, died at the ripe old age of 16.

[Albertadiver]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the feedback from those that have been through this.

Yeah, I know I'm not a crazy cat lady or a person who treats their pet like a human, but my bud means the world to my wife and I. No kids, so he gets our attention.

The surgery went well apparently. Thankfully the low platelet question wasn't an issue and he clotted up just fine. The surgeon Dr. Remedios was happy with everything on her end. Just hate having him overnight there. We pick him up at 9am tomorrow.

We have the paperwork on how to start recovery and therapy. They weren't kidding when they said it would be intensive!

Will post a few updates through the process. Now all I have to do is go pick bottles around the neighborhood for the next few years to cover this nearly 5K bill!

[Albertadiver]

Well, thought I’d post an update on Duke. It’s been one week since the surgery, and it’s been rough!

We picked him up after an overnight at the hospital, and first thing he wanted to is get the he!! Outta there, even with all of the meds he was on. We got him home and comfy and started the recovery process.

At first he was on four different rounds of pills varying between 8-12hr doses. Then only 3 five minute trips outside to try to go bathroom. (That didn’t happen for 3 days, now he seems to be regular every evening)

At first he acted like he’d been hit by a train, but thankfully the meds kept him doped up and calm. Now the challenge is he’ll try to move fast, and is whining to go for walks. If I take him to go bathroom, he’ll head for the gate and whine. He also tried to jump over a barrier I made on our back deck, thankfully I yelled before he sprang. I built ramps off the deck and in our tierd yard and painted them with non-slip coatings. He’d rather just jump like he always does of course.

The wife and I have been taking turns keeping him in sight all the time to keep the cone off. So far he hasn’t tried to lick the wound too much.
We do ice packs and stretches 3 times a day to get the joint moving, and he seems to be putting more weight on his leg when walking. We have hardwood floors so we have rugs all over the place for now, but keep the belly band on him when he’s on slippery floors so he doesn’t slip.

Sleeping on the floor in the bedroom has been just wonderful. Last night I woke up with a back leg kick to the face and Duke sprawled across the pad. I think I’ll have my wife spend the night with him tonight instead.

The swelling in his ankle has gone down almost to normal. A day after surgery it was like a water bag the size of a tennis ball hanging off his leg. Apparently that’s normal. The bruising is calming down too thankfully.

Now the challenge is going to be keeping him from trying to run around for the next 11 weeks!

If anyone is about to go through this surgery, be prepared to not have a life for the first few weeks. Prepare the house before the surgery too. Thanks for all the suggestions and PM’s.

[Albertadiver]

And a few more pics

[slopeshunter]

Here's wishing duke a safe recovery. Looks like it's gonna be some tough weeks.

[brslk]

Wishing Duke a speedy recovery. He's a handsome dog.

[Albertadiver]

With the horrible events of today in Vegas, and the petty negativity I’ve seen in other areas, I’m going to post something positive.


Today Duke took a leak standing on his bad leg for the first time since surgery.

Yesterday we allowed him to walk around the house without a band or leash. His cone time is almost done. His wound is still healing very well. He really enjoyed his three ten minute walks in the snow today and of course he wanted to play in the snow which was tough to stop.

Two week surgery consult is in the morning. We are doing the therapy religiously and are optimistic for a positive response.

[c_vet]

Just read through the whole thread here. I'm a vet in Carstairs and I do TPLO surgeries. first I can understand the frustration and mistrust. I have seen a few misdiagnosis of ACL ruptures and I know there are some vets who overprice services.
I the long run, Duke will do better and that knee wont become arthritic.

recently a 10 year old boxer came to me with 2 torn ACL's because of the age/cost we just gave him pain killers anti-inflamatories. a year later his knees were so arthritic he had to be on daily pain meds just to get off his bed. it was pretty sad. but boxers have a short lifespan too.

[Albertadiver]

Originally Posted by c_vet

Just read through the whole thread here. I'm a vet in Carstairs and I do TPLO surgeries. first I can understand the frustration and mistrust. I have seen a few misdiagnosis of ACL ruptures and I know there are some vets who overprice services.
I the long run, Duke will do better and that knee wont become arthritic.

recently a 10 year old boxer came to me with 2 torn ACL's because of the age/cost we just gave him pain killers anti-inflamatories. a year later his knees were so arthritic he had to be on daily pain meds just to get off his bed. it was pretty sad. but boxers have a short lifespan too.

Thanks for the comments. I do feel that this procedure was expensive, but at the end of the day I had confidence in the surgeon doing the procedure, which to me was more important than $500 bucks. It will only take me most of the year to pay back what I've spent.... All of the several Vets and specialists appeared genuinely interested, and cared about our situation which I very much appreciated. During the testing at the Calgary Vet hospital they spent some extra time with us, and did some additional testing at no additional cost which was appreciated.

The only thing that really ticked me off was that the needle for the IV was left in his front leg, and I couldn't figure out why he was favoring his paw. We waited two days to take the bandage off after the surgery (called to get permission) and we unwrapped the leg and there's this big needle sticking out of his vein still! We called the vet back and it was silence from the vet tech, and then she apologized and said that wasn't supposed to be there. As soon as we took it out he showed he was much more comfortable on his leg.

In terms of recovery, he's in the middle of week 4, and his energy levels are exceeding his leg's healing. It's tough to keep him down to 3 slow ten minute walks a day. He would rather jump up and off the ramps that I've built in the backyard so we always keep the band on to lift up his back end when he gets stupid. Last night, we forgot to shut the door down to the basement and he ran down the stairs which are steep and fairly slippery. He was limping quite a bit after that. I iced it down and carried his 90lbs back upstairs. I nearly had a heart attack over that one...

He still has a pronounced limp, and his muscle mass really needs to develop more. (It's pretty skinny from not trusting it much over the summer) The wound from the surgery has healed nicely and only a tiny bit of weeping in two spots once in a while. (not infected) His 2 week checkup went well.

We allow him to walk freely around the main floor of the house now, and we've taught an old dog a new trick! 'Slow'. He'll try to run to his food dish at dinner time and we have taught him to slink to it which is much better.

For those going through this, it is very tough to stick to the daily recovery regime, but I feel this is working and I think he's a little ahead of the typical recovery time. Thank goodness my wife primarily works from home.

I'll post a few pics of Duke's leg when I get a chance. Just keeping folks updated as I know there's more than a few that will go through this at some point with their pup.

[Albertadiver]

Well time for an update this evening. Duke's recovery is into week five.

We've reduced his food a bit because he's not doing as much physical activity. I've increased his walks to about 15 minutes each, at a slow pace. They still say three 10 minute walks, but I think he can handle it to build up some strength.

He's using the leg more and more, but it's still very skinny from muscle wasting.

The incision has healed very well and his fur is coming back. We have to watch him like a hawk to keep from running in the house or trying to go down stairs on his own.

So far so good!

[dodger]

Awesome!

Dodger.

[silverdoctor]

Good to hear, hard to keep a good dog down.

[Albertadiver]

Another brief update. Duke had his follow-up Xrays yesterday (7 weeks into recovery) and the bone is healing nicely. Still a ways to go, but now he's allowed around the house free range and we don't have to take him on leash into the backyard for bathroom breaks.

He can do longer walks, but still on leash. He uses his leg pretty much fully and he doesn't limp much at all anymore. The surgeon says he's healing very well and quite quickly for an 8yr old lab.

We still have to be careful, but we're on the home stretch to recovery and thank goodness no major new vet bills!

Probably the best news is that we can put the frame and box spring back on the bed! Rolling onto the floor every morning for the last 7 weeks and trying to get stood up has been a real treat!

[sns2]

Glad to hear the boy is on his way back! Thanks for the update.

[HVA7mm]

Reviving an old thread about cruciate ligament damage. Our 6yr old German Shepherd was showing signs of stiffness in the last month after it's regular run at the dog park. I thought that maybe it was maybe because we had taken a hiatus from the park for a few weeks until it had dried up. Took her to the vet yesterday, and they didn't suspect any hip issues, but did suspect a partial tear/rupture of the cruciate ligament. I've been doing a bunch of reading, and have come to the conclusion that I'm going to try to restrict movement (avoid stairs, jumping, off-leash etc.) combined with supplements, massage etc.

The surgery estimate was around $5k, including x-rays etc. I'm a bit apprehensive to put the dog under the knife, as a pre-op x-ray won't really show very much detail vs CT or MRI. They tried the drawer test which wasn't conclusive, and the vet chalked it up to the dog being tense. We received a prescription for an NSAID (Metacam) for a week, so we'll try that and see if there is any change.

She still uses the affected leg when walking, but obviously favors it a bit like any other animal with a sore leg. Other than being slow to get up after too much exercise, their haven't really been any displays of pain. Now that cruciate damage is suspected, I'm hoping that movement restrictions and supplementation will enable the dog to heal. Looking for some more input from people who have decided to forgo the surgical route for suspected cruciate damage.

[rottie]

For a partial tear here is a link to a custom fit brace that may help your dog. The brace gives support to the injured leg, letting the dog use it more. This lessens muscle loss on the injured leg. It also takes stress off of the good leg. Here is a link to the brace, I used one on my Rottie, it cut down her recovery time and she healed up great.
https://mypetsbrace.com/home

Dr Vanderwekken at https://www.stonewillowvet.ca/ in Lacombe walked me through the process.

Another tool is to make a strong bone broth using knee joints from beef animals, render it down to a jello type constancy . Here is another link for you
https://draxe.com/bone-broth-for-dogs/

Hope some of this helps you, I have being through this recently , if you have any questions, or if I can help in any way shoot a pm.

Rottie

[mds694]

Originally Posted by Popik

I hope you get what your after. I personally have zero trust in vets anymore as i went through a similar situation with our Boxer. She went got 3 second opinions who were al animate that her cruciate was done. we paid for the xrays and many other pain management plans unit the day she finally went in for the surgery...wife even took a bunch of time off work to help with the recovery. Phone rings a few hours after i dropped her off and the surgeons says her ligament is intact and still fine. They charged me for 70% of the surgery as a conciliation an hen recommended some steroids to help with whatever might have been wrong. Fast forward two years and our poor girl is so ill and so many things wrong with her we decide to wean her off the steroids....2 months later she 95% fine and acting like a puppy again.

This all took 4 1/2 yrs and just shy of $9000 in vet bills. Never again will i trust a vet.

Because human doctors never make mistakes....

[raised by wolves]

My heart goes out to anyone having to deal with this issue. It is tough to see animals that become a family member, going through so much pain and discomfort. And it was expensive. I went through it 15 years ago and it cost us around $4000 at the time.

Thankfully neither of my Labs had to contend with a torn cruciate, but, one of our Cockers did. First off, we had great confidence in our vet. Puppy was in rough shape, lots of pain as she could not use the one leg. She would scream if she tried putting weight on the torn leg. The vet did the surgery and all seemed well. Unfortunately an infection set in that nearly killed our dog. The vet was awesome. We had full confidence in the vet before the injury ever occurred. We knew our dog was in good hands. The infection was unfortunate and costly. We did not have pet insurance at the time, but we do now. But, I would not hesitate to look after my pet. That poor little dog could not walk with the tear but after recovering from the post-op infection, she was running and swimming, and liver a long active life.

[HVA7mm]

Originally Posted by HVA7mm

Reviving an old thread about cruciate ligament damage. Our 6yr old German Shepherd was showing signs of stiffness in the last month after it's regular run at the dog park. I thought that maybe it was maybe because we had taken a hiatus from the park for a few weeks until it had dried up. Took her to the vet yesterday, and they didn't suspect any hip issues, but did suspect a partial tear/rupture of the cruciate ligament. I've been doing a bunch of reading, and have come to the conclusion that I'm going to try to restrict movement (avoid stairs, jumping, off-leash etc.) combined with supplements, massage etc.

The surgery estimate was around $5k, including x-rays etc. I'm a bit apprehensive to put the dog under the knife, as a pre-op x-ray won't really show very much detail vs CT or MRI. They tried the drawer test which wasn't conclusive, and the vet chalked it up to the dog being tense. We received a prescription for an NSAID (Metacam) for a week, so we'll try that and see if there is any change.

She still uses the affected leg when walking, but obviously favors it a bit like any other animal with a sore leg. Other than being slow to get up after too much exercise, their haven't really been any displays of pain. Now that cruciate damage is suspected, I'm hoping that movement restrictions and supplementation will enable the dog to heal. Looking for some more input from people who have decided to forgo the surgical route for suspected cruciate damage.

I'm only three full days into going the conservative management route for the suspected ligament damage (restrictive on-leash 10 min walks 3x per day,keeping the dog as rested as an outdoor dog can be and keeping her away from basement stairs/hardwood floors/jumping into vehicle) combined with the Metacam and noticing a marked improvement. This is leading me to believe that the suspected ligament damage may not be present, and perhaps only a strain or sprain. The dog seems to be using the affected leg consistently while walking, much more confidently when squatting to pee and with very little to no struggle when rising to her feet. I'll continue this route for the next 7 weeks and see if things continue to improve.

The veterinary clinic did leave a message today while at work asking if we wanted to go ahead with a referral to the surgery clinic, and if the NSAID's were making a difference. I will call them back and let them know that we will forgo the surgery route for now, and that rest and therapeutic walks combined with the Metacam seem to be working really well. I'm not downplaying any info that a veterinarian offers up, as it's got to be one of the most difficult forms of medicine to practice as their patient can't tell them whats going on. However, I am a bit skeptical about heading directly to the surgical suite without proper CT/MRI imaging results.

We're also going to consult with an animal chiropractor as an alternate therapy. Has anyone else went that route with their dog, horse etc. and had favorable results?

[traderal]

About 5 years ago we had two of our shepherds develop tcl. We decided to go the restricted exercise route and in a few months they were back to normal. Saved lots of money with that decision. We also used to have pet insurance but with the rates being 60 to 90 dollars a month plus a deductible on every visit we decided to put that money into an account instead. Actually used that account today when one of the dogs injured his leg below the hock. Cost was 730 but under the insurance plan 500 would not have been covered any way. If we had only one dog we probably would insure.

[rottie]

We're also going to consult with an animal chiropractor as an alternate therapy. Has anyone else went that route with their dog, horse etc. and had favorable results?

Yes I have had great results with alternative treatments, along with a brace they saved a surgery.

[omega50]

Originally Posted by rottie

We're also going to consult with an animal chiropractor as an alternate therapy. Has anyone else went that route with their dog, horse etc. and had favorable results?

Yes I have had great results with alternative treatments, along with a brace they saved a surgery.

This is an alternative treatment with a Inter Species Life Coach based in Calgary. Reiki or Shamanism
Perhaps your dog can tell you how it is feeling.

https://lindarigo.wordpress.com/