Bill 24

[densa44]

This is the one where the school doesn't have to tell parents if they think your child/student is gay/lesbian/trans.

I'm long past having an interest in the topic but the supporters of the bill got 200 people (young) out on a cold long weekend to support the government's position.

This is to the attention of those people who are sure the NDP will lose the next election. This is one of the wedge issues I have mentioned before and as far as the government is concerned that the more that they can come up with between now and the election, the better chance they have to be re-elected.

I will assume here that the UCP and Mr. Kenny will oppose the legislation. Now how will it effect the electorate? Will it attract votes to the UCP or will they just maintain their base? How about the NDs? Will it attract voters (new voters) my guess is that they think that it will.

Governments have lots of power to manipulate events in their favour so I warn against over confidence.

[ESOXangler]

Bottom line is the majority of the 40 and under crowd support the bill to some extent. Schools have no right outing a child. Youth dealing with this have too many things to deal with already.

[WCTHEMI]

I just don’t understand why there needs to be a law about this. Does this make sense to anyone?


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[Flight01]

Originally Posted by WCTHEMI

I just don’t understand why there needs to be a law about this. Does this make sense to anyone?


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Exactly My thoughts

Who cares. Why make it a law.

Let it be.

[DiabeticKripple]

They are making it law because of Kenney.

He wants to out kids. But at the same time I do see his point that the parents should know what’s going on at school and in their kids lives.

[Newview01]

The bill does nothing other than take away parental control over children. Anybody who supports this bill believes that the government / education system knows what's best for the children. Is there a requirement for teachers to tell parents what is going on? No, there isn't. The bill creates a problem where there is none. It also makes teaches complacent and removes the teacher / parent connection. The child could be struggling in any aspect but the teacher doesn't feel like making an issue of it. No problem with this bill as there are now no consequences for not notifying parents.

It is a lot more than outing gay kids. You people need to learn to read between the lines. This is probably the most drastic step towards socialism / nanny state the NDP have taken.

[ESOXangler]

The sad part is that this actually does need to happen. There are still plenty of people that have issue with the LGBT community. I work with a guy who’s father completely removed him from the family when they discovered which way he swings.
Now imagine the regular stresses of being a teen, coupled with the burden of realizing you are different than the majority tied with the over hanging stress that youre teacher might whistle your dad up and out you. It’s a suicidal type of stress.

Let’s let teachers do their jobs. This isn’t part of it. They are not taking parental control away from anyone.

[Scottmisfits]

In my mind this is no place for anyone except the parents and child to deal with on their terms. If the son/daughter wants help in bringing it to their parents and the have a trusted teacher, fine. But it’s not right that it’s mandatory for the school to notify, it’s not their place.

[Bushrat]

If the parents are so disconnected that they don't already know these things about their children or are in denial then it won't do anything but aggravate and worsen the situation for the child who lives in that environment. The schools should stay out of it and mind their own business.

On the other hand and I don't know if this is a law but I could see a law that if the school/teacher knows a child is suicidal for any reason they should let the parents know if they are not already aware. I dunno I suppose this could aggravate a situation if the child is suicidal because of situations at home, guess it is a judgement call when to intervene. Catch 22 problem, could be damned if you do and damned if you don't. Where do you draw the line?

[Newview01]

What is the most important part of society? The family or the "system"? It doesn't matter what law is in place there will always be terrible parents / families. But to generally accept that the education system should take charge over the family is a mistake.

As I said, this is a lot more than outing gay kids. Never has there been a time where that crowd is more accepted.

And if parents disagree with homosexuality, is that not their right? Are you people going to tell me what I should or should not believe in? For example, the current governments venerate indigenous traditions. Why are my traditions such a problem?

We can't have it both ways. At this rate it will be the wrong way, and our children will suffer for it.

[DisplacedCaper]

Uuuuuugh. It’s been a while since I was in school (not as long as most on here I gather though lol). But do the schools call home to tell the parents their kid is attending debate club on their lunch? Or do they call home to tell them their kid is playing floor hockey in the gym? They didn’t when I was in school. I think this falls in the same category. The difference being a lot of people still think being gay is bad. For Christ sake there are a few more problems worthy of our governments time.


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[denied access]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

They are making it law because of Kenney.

He wants to out kids. But at the same time I do see his point that the parents should know what’s going on at school and in their kids lives.

That's not quite true. He wants to allow teachers to be able to do the job they are trained to do. If a child is being bullied or stressed because of their orientation a teacher should be able to talk to the parents about it.

[Tigger72]

So my question: Are we going to let the gov't choose when they want us to parent our children and when they get to??? If our children are misbehaving in school it becomes a responsibility of the parents to rectify, its called raising children/parenting?
Its kinda like the them trying to force the teachings of LGBTQ lifestyles in the schools despite it going against the catholic religion. Especially in this day and age where religious based groups seem to rule and can cry foul at any point and be exempt from what ever they want yet the govt says no you have to teach it. Where do we draw the line for allowing the govt to control our lives?

[mattthegorby]

I agree that this social issue and others like it are used to play us against each other and divide our votes. In the end, whatever our social outlook, we all want our kids to be secure and grow into a world where they can make a good living and have the freedom of choice to be who they want to be.

Matt

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[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by denied access

That's not quite true. He wants to allow teachers to be able to do the job they are trained to do. If a child is being bullied or stressed because of their orientation a teacher should be able to talk to the parents about it.

This. Everyone is going on like Kenny wants to burn witches but that’s pretty far from the truth and they should be ashamed for spreading such blatant lies (Kripple you’re guilty of this). He doesn’t even suggest that it be mandatory to notify parents, merely that it be an option available for the teachers as they see fit according to each unique situation. The opportunity for parents and teachers to co-operate in dealing with the welfare of a student is the aim, and shouldn’t that always be the aim?

Witch hunt or gay-bashing? Hardly.... Leftist hysteria, certainly.

[DiabeticKripple]

Look at his previous comments on it back in May. He was all for notifying parents (outing) when the kid joined the GSA. He has since toned it down to his current stance, but I don’t trust him.

This issue is a big deal to the progressives and will lose votes for the UCP

[rem338win]

In no way should a parents rights be circumvented by the gov on any subject.

Im surprised so many think a responsible method of supoorting families on a education level is to keep secrets.

Parents should absolutely be aware of any activities their children are involved in through schools.

If a child is gay and this will cause family conflict it should be brought into the open so the "system" can support both sides and create resolutions.

Having a child living in fear of being discovered in their own home everyday and keeping that secret with a teacher? Sounds like people teying to make 90s Sally Field movies.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

In my mind this is no place for anyone except the parents and child to deal with on their terms. If the son/daughter wants help in bringing it to their parents and the have a trusted teacher, fine. But it’s not right that it’s mandatory for the school to notify, it’s not their place.

They are not psychologists or psychoanalysts, it is not their place at all to decide to interfere. This is going too far.

[Scottmisfits]

Originally Posted by rem338win

In no way should a parents rights be circumvented by the gov on any subject.

Im surprised so many think a responsible method of supoorting families on a education level is to keep secrets.

Parents should absolutely be aware of any activities their children are involved in through schools.

If a child is gay and this will cause family conflict it should be brought into the open so the "system" can support both sides and create resolutions.

Having a child living in fear of being discovered in their own home everyday and keeping that secret with a teacher? Sounds like people teying to make 90s Sally Field movies.

Schools, teachers, governments, etc.. They don’t know the situation at home. They don’t know what kind of situations would arise from this. I can guarantee there would be a spike in teen suicide. Isn’t that something we should be trying to prevent? The rights of that teen should be trumped because of someone’s desire? To me that sounds very much like another argument that comes up on this forum.......

[CritterCommander]

Originally Posted by Scottmisfits

Schools, teachers, governments, etc.. They don’t know the situation at home. They don’t know what kind of situations would arise from this. I can guarantee there would be a spike in teen suicide. Isn’t that something we should be trying to prevent? The rights of that teen should be trumped because of someone’s desire? To me that sounds very much like another argument that comes up on this forum.......

Problem is they "know" best. And would never admit to not knowing what's going on, its their "job" to control control control.

Kenney and the UCP aslo seem to think they know what's "best" on this topic.

I think the UCP would be wise to pass on taking this type of stuff on at all.

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by densa44

This is the one where the school doesn't have to tell parents if they think your child/student is gay/lesbian/trans.

Have you read ANYTHING on this bill that wasn't published by the Rebel?

The bill has nothing to do with with the student's sexuality.

I expected better of a mod. Try reading the actual text, here's a link to a pdf.

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADDA...2_bill-024.pdf

Among other tweaks, what the bill does do is restrict the school from informing parents if a student joining a Gay Straight Alliance club. You will probably find a lot of kids there that are trying to work out their sexual identity sure but you will also find other kids who are there for any number of reasons like supporting friends.

I don't support this bill. I agree with Kenny's position, teachers need to be able to approach parents with all the information if they have concerns about the student's welfare. However your attempt to reimagine this issue as a political exercise while disregarding the basic facts is shameful. If anything is going to drive people to the NDP it's that kind of obvious weasel move that will do it.

[Newview01]

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

[JDK71]

this is why a lot of people are home schooling there kids and I think you will see more. my son is in his last year of school but if he was just starting school now we would be home schooling him for sure

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by JDK71

this is why a lot of people are home schooling there kids and I think you will see more. my son is in his last year of school but if he was just starting school now we would be home schooling him for sure

What will also happen is private schools will be under attack before you know it. Private schools are generally the top performers in AB, and ultimately the most cost effective for the taxpayer.

But hey, anything in the name of "progress" - read "control".

It will be interesting to see what the Catholic school boards do about this.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What will also happen is private schools will be under attack before you know it. Private schools are generally the top performers in AB, and ultimately the most cost effective for the taxpayer.

But hey, anything in the name of "progress" - read "control".

It will be interesting to see what the Catholic school boards do about this.

I hear you about that it will be interesting for sure

[260 Rem]

I can’t recall the year, likely early ‘80’s, (as a HS Principal), going against the flow and resisting the implementation of “sex ed” being inserted into curriculum. I was convinced it should be parental perogative and schools should not be involved. In a perfect world, I would have been right but in the real world I came to understand, I WAS WRONG.
I suspect the same will come to pass with “gender identity” stuff and fifty years hence, will not even be included as a footnote in the history of education.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

Interesting note.

I had trouble with a teacher being extremely critical with my children. He did the same with me. He did the same with my sister, 12 years older than me. He was the reason I quit school, and finished in Lloydminster. He cost my Dad a lot of money for a vehicle, gas and insurance.
For my daughter I went to the school and demanded a sit down with he and the Principal. Long story short, he did not know why he was so critical of my kids or I, and after threatening to take him outside if that was what he wanted of me, he began crying and decided that is was indeed his fault, stretching out a dislike for my sister into me, and finally my 2 kids. I asked him how long he could hold a grudge for something I nor my children did to him?
Immediately after that day he was very good to my kids, and the rest of the school saw an improvement. He retired a year later.

My point- teachers for most of the 13 years kids are in school have more to do with them than we do. When they are in their teens we see them for a minute before school, maybe 5 at lunch, for the 15 minutes they sit at supper and for a couple hours on the weekends. Teachers are in front of them for 6 hours 5 days per week for 13 years. They are a captive audience. Unless you homeskule, you (I) never see our kids anywhere near that much. I get up before them, leave for work before they are up, get home when they are playing, doing sports, homework or on the tv/computer/ipad/book in their room. Children and teenagers are sometimes solitary creatures just like adults.

When it was all said and done I explained this same thing to the teacher, and I thanked him for the many years of service that he had brought to the school, helping to raise all of our children for us. I believe that you have to be pretty damn special to be a teacher, hats off to everyone here that has chosen that vocation. (Alacringa)

He hugged me after he was done crying, and that was the first time we had talked in nearly 20 years. I asked him why he thought we never spoke, he had no answer. I did not expect him to, he had countless children and teenagers that he taught in his decades of standing before them. I said that although he did not remember me, I remembered how miserable and ignorant he was to me, and that stuck with me my entire life. Guess I held a grudge for 20 years too.

Being a teacher is very difficult, and I truly think that we are who we are due to the influence they have on us in our developing years. Imagine teaching 3 generations. He did.

I wonder if they want this bill to pass, or if it is some pinhead looking for another way to screw with us 'for our betterment'.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Interesting note.

I had trouble with a teacher being extremely critical with my children. He did the same with me. He did the same with my sister, 12 years older than me. He was the reason I quit school, and finished in Lloydminster. He cost my Dad a lot of money for a vehicle, gas and insurance.
For my daughter I went to the school and demanded a sit down with he and the Principal. Long story short, he did not know why he was so critical of my kids or I, and after threatening to take him outside if that was what he wanted of me, he began crying and decided that is was indeed his fault, stretching out a dislike for my sister into me, and finally my 2 kids. I asked him how long he could hold a grudge for something I nor my children did to him?
Immediately after that day he was very good to my kids, and the rest of the school saw an improvement. He retired a year later.

My point- teachers for most of the 13 years kids are in school have more to do with them than we do. When they are in their teens we see them for a minute before school, maybe 5 at lunch, for the 15 minutes they sit at supper and for a couple hours on the weekends. Teachers are in front of them for 6 hours 5 days per week for 13 years. They are a captive audience. Unless you homeskule, you (I) never see our kids anywhere near that much. I get up before them, leave for work before they are up, get home when they are playing, doing sports, homework or on the tv/computer/ipad/book in their room. Children and teenagers are sometimes solitary creatures just like adults.

When it was all said and done I explained this same thing to the teacher, and I thanked him for the many years of service that he had brought to the school, helping to raise all of our children for us. I believe that you have to be pretty damn special to be a teacher, hats off to everyone here that has chosen that vocation. (Alacringa)

He hugged me after he was done crying, and that was the first time we had talked in nearly 20 years. I asked him why he thought we never spoke, he had no answer. I did not expect him to, he had countless children and teenagers that he taught in his decades of standing before them. I said that although he did not remember me, I remembered how miserable and ignorant he was to me, and that stuck with me my entire life. Guess I held a grudge for 20 years too.

Being a teacher is very difficult, and I truly think that we are who we are due to the influence they have on us in our developing years. Imagine teaching 3 generations. He did.

I wonder if they want this bill to pass, or if it is some pinhead looking for another way to screw with us 'for our betterment'.

I am taking your short story as you disagreeing with the removal of the parent-teacher connection.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

So this was to prevent teachers from informing the parents that their kid is gay?

Should they join a Gay alliance group at school.

Because the only person who should "Out" the kid is the kid themselves.

They make it seem that the hardships a kid receives about being gay comes from the parents.

So what about the other kids?

What about the bullies?

Parents of other kids?

Stigma is more likely to come from these groups more , than from the kids own family,
Albeit ones own family can be brutal with a gay child.


Densa44 is right.

This was simply a move to garner more votes in the next election.

[DiabeticKripple]

I don’t like that this bill throws teachers under the bus. If asked by a parent if their child is in a GSA, now by law they must lie to their face.