Do we have enough moose?

[Talking moose]

Mind you the native population is growing fast. Could account for more hunting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Downward trend last 5 years. That’s as far back as I could find.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

then why all the issues....unethical harvesting of game, illegal harvesting of game....I could point fingers but that wont solve anything...those who take just need to restrain themselves…..even if 100 percent legal....

[hunterngather]

With drone technology I dont see why we could not get an accurate account on animal numbers in multiple areas of the province.

Most of the numbers are anecdotal. Time to get real numbers of what is left.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

With drone technology I dont see why we could not get an accurate account on animal numbers in multiple areas of the province.

Most of the numbers are anecdotal. Time to get real numbers of what is left.

Oh I don’t know....... they pretty much nailed the grizzly count.

[summit151]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

Downward trend last 5 years. That’s as far back as I could find.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s actually very surprising that it’s going down wards. Seems like every draw is becoming a longer waiting period and areas seem to get busier each year with hunters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kurt505]

The environment plays the biggest role in population numbers so after a harsh winter you’ll see numbers drop. With proper wildlife management those numbers can rebound, however If there is a portion of the population who cannot be regulated and will not self regulate, then we have problems.

A downward trend isn’t surprising, Disney channel, LGBTQ, liberals, BLM, antifa, justin trudeau, with all these other fashionable groups you can be a part of these days, hunting just isn’t cool to be a part of anymore. It’s not politically correct to gather your own food anymore.

[Dark Wing]

I had a conversation with a FN coworker today about this post and he said they run into other FN groups from Saskatchewan and B.C. every year. One group from Ft. St. John would take 7 or 8 bull moose every year. It would be nice to see some restrictions for out of province unregulated hunting.

[summit151]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I had a conversation with a FN coworker today about this post and he said they run into other FN groups from Saskatchewan and B.C. every year. One group from Ft. St. John would take 7 or 8 bull moose every year. It would be nice to see some restrictions for out of province unregulated hunting.

Seems odd for a group to travel from fort Saint John to come here for moose? There is a healthy moose population around there


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Barry D]

Back in 1845 they figured out how to make good leather out of buffalo hides, so the white guys started shooting them by the millions (about 50 million on the land at the time) the natives lived off the buffalo and tried in vain to get the "white faces" to stop, but money drove them on. Now a 180 years later, the white guys, or non-natives are trying to stop the natives from shooting all the animals. The natives have the governments blessing, just like the white guys did back then, so nothing has changed but the motive and politics. when all the animals are gone may 30-40 years from now, we will both see how destructive we were to not just each other, but ourselves, not to mention the animals. As Ecclesiastes says, there is nothing new under the sun.

On an aside note, try to get a hold of a book called "The Great Buffalo Hunt" It will give you a good insight into one of the first injustices of the governments of the time on native peoples. Written in 1559 by Wayne Gard.

If we all take some time to learn the history of any issue, it will help us all make better decisions for our future.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Barry D

Back in 1845 they figured out how to make good leather out of buffalo hides, so the white guys started shooting them by the millions (about 50 million on the land at the time) the natives lived off the buffalo and tried in vain to get the "white faces" to stop, but money drove them on. Now a 180 years later, the white guys, or non-natives are trying to stop the natives from shooting all the animals. The natives have the governments blessing, just like the white guys did back then, so nothing has changed but the motive and politics. when all the animals are gone may 30-40 years from now, we will both see how destructive we were to not just each other, but ourselves, not to mention the animals. As Ecclesiastes says, there is nothing new under the sun.

On an aside note, try to get a hold of a book called "The Great Buffalo Hunt" It will give you a good insight into one of the first injustices of the governments of the time on native peoples. Written in 1559 by Wayne Gard.

If we all take some time to learn the history of any issue, it will help us all make better decisions for our future.

Actually something has changed, 180 years ago, there was no effort to manage game populations, there weren't hunting seasons or bag limits for anyone in North America.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Barry D

Back in 1845 they figured out how to make good leather out of buffalo hides, so the white guys started shooting them by the millions (about 50 million on the land at the time) the natives lived off the buffalo and tried in vain to get the "white faces" to stop, but money drove them on. Now a 180 years later, the white guys, or non-natives are trying to stop the natives from shooting all the animals. The natives have the governments blessing, just like the white guys did back then, so nothing has changed but the motive and politics. when all the animals are gone may 30-40 years from now, we will both see how destructive we were to not just each other, but ourselves, not to mention the animals. As Ecclesiastes says, there is nothing new under the sun.

On an aside note, try to get a hold of a book called "The Great Buffalo Hunt" It will give you a good insight into one of the first injustices of the governments of the time on native peoples. Written in 1559 by Wayne Gard.

If we all take some time to learn the history of any issue, it will help us all make better decisions for our future.

That was a deliberate effort by the government to starve out the natives and force them onto reserves, which has zero relevance to what’s going on now. My ancestors were still in Friesland 180 years ago, so I don’t think I should be paying for the sins of the US government of the time. Many white folks (i.e Theodore Roosevelt) could see what was happening and started to implement regulations to prevent the extinction of all game species.

I don’t think many of us would be cool with several herds of 20 000 bison stampeded across the prairies now.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

I had a conversation with a FN coworker today about this post and he said they run into other FN groups from Saskatchewan and B.C. every year. One group from Ft. St. John would take 7 or 8 bull moose every year. It would be nice to see some restrictions for out of province unregulated hunting.

How do your FN associates feel about other FN groups From across western Canada hammering the sheep at the coal mine?

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by NCC

How do your FN associates feel about other FN groups From across western Canada hammering the sheep at the coal mine?

Assuming Cadomin mine, details?

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by Barry D

Back in 1845 they figured out how to make good leather out of buffalo hides, so the white guys started shooting them by the millions (about 50 million on the land at the time) the natives lived off the buffalo and tried in vain to get the "white faces" to stop, but money drove them on. Now a 180 years later, the white guys, or non-natives are trying to stop the natives from shooting all the animals. The natives have the governments blessing, just like the white guys did back then, so nothing has changed but the motive and politics. when all the animals are gone may 30-40 years from now, we will both see how destructive we were to not just each other, but ourselves, not to mention the animals. As Ecclesiastes says, there is nothing new under the sun.

On an aside note, try to get a hold of a book called "The Great Buffalo Hunt" It will give you a good insight into one of the first injustices of the governments of the time on native peoples. Written in 1559 by Wayne Gard.

If we all take some time to learn the history of any issue, it will help us all make better decisions for our future.

Not entirely true... the natives and especially the Métis were the ones who killed off the buffalo to sell the hides to whitey.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by 7magtime

Assuming Cadomin mine, details?

Wrong mine

[kujoseto]

How many whiteys with how many guns killed off how many millions of bison?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

How many whiteys with how many guns killed off how many millions of bison?

Do some research it was a joint effort but yes government at the time had motives. No matter who killed the bison it was wrong and I am pretty sure everyone would agree. Those were times that people exploited many species causing huge declines and proper management for stable harvest for the future was not common practice

This should be an example of why proper management is needed and how unregulated harvest can have major negative impacts not a way to point fingers to deflect from present day issues

If we want a positive future for hunting for all it is through properly managing wildlife population and this goes for all forms of hunter

[RockyMountainMusic]

Originally Posted by NCC

How do your FN associates feel about other FN groups From across western Canada hammering the sheep at the coal mine?

A couple years ago the Alberta gov made the decision to follow suite of all the other provinces across Canada in that to have hunting rights in AB your treaty/rights had to be from the province, The local F&W officer was told of the change and informed the people he knew (guys with treaties from newfoundland/BC/Sask etc) that they could no longer hunt in AB under that treaty. This decision lasted less than 2 weeks and the AB gov reversed it back to free for all. So if you have a treaty anywhere in Canada your welcome in AB but if your from AB you can not go to any other province with the same freedom...

As for moose sustainability, as an example: when it was a Nov general tag in WMU 353 lots of people shot moose including FN and all was good, there was like a thousand tags even the first year it went draw. Now in WMU 353 where for over a decade the Gov of AB has been trying really hard to eradicate the moose(to save a few caribou) by giving out thousands of tags and cow/calf tags and shooting moose from a chopper they still have failed miserably to do so. Yes its not as great as the zone used to be but anyone who has seen the zone from then to now also knows it also went from a beautiful timbered zone to a desert wasteland for a big part of it with industry. People don't like FN harvest but have no voice when the gov has been literally trying to decimate a species through aerial gunning and deliberately trying to over harvest. They have no voice when the gov shut down grizzly hunting, next to nobody out shooting predators, and nothing to say about the industry literally wiping out so much habitat and not even planning to reforest. So much roadkill where industry is highly active and I can go on but your right FN is the easy scapegoat. It all plays into a part of game management and unfortunately the ab gov has no intention on actual game management here.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

A couple years ago the Alberta gov made the decision to follow suite of all the other provinces across Canada in that to have hunting rights in AB your treaty/rights had to be from the province, The local F&W officer was told of the change and informed the people he knew (guys with treaties from newfoundland/BC/Sask etc) that they could no longer hunt in AB under that treaty. This decision lasted less than 2 weeks and the AB gov reversed it back to free for all. So if you have a treaty anywhere in Canada your welcome in AB but if your from AB you can not go to any other province with the same freedom...

As for moose sustainability, as an example: when it was a Nov general tag in WMU 353 lots of people shot moose including FN and all was good, there was like a thousand tags even the first year it went draw. Now in WMU 353 where for over a decade the Gov of AB has been trying really hard to eradicate the moose(to save a few caribou) by giving out thousands of tags and cow/calf tags and shooting moose from a chopper they still have failed miserably to do so. Yes its not as great as the zone used to be but anyone who has seen the zone from then to now also knows it also went from a beautiful timbered zone to a desert wasteland for a big part of it with industry. People don't like FN harvest but have no voice when the gov has been literally trying to decimate a species through aerial gunning and deliberately trying to over harvest. They have no voice when the gov shut down grizzly hunting, next to nobody out shooting predators, and nothing to say about the industry literally wiping out so much habitat and not even planning to reforest. So much roadkill where industry is highly active and I can go on but your right FN is the easy scapegoat. It all plays into a part of game management and unfortunately the ab gov has no intention on actual game management here.

What wiped out all of the moose in Manitoba which is causing the FN hunters to come to Alberta? Don’t tell me it’s the farmers because the farmland is the only place in Alberta where we have moose left.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

How many whiteys with how many guns killed off how many millions of bison?

those were slobs as is any person doing such act....hmmm...maybe a tactful act...those were crappy times...guess they are here to stay until some cultures smartin'up….not in todays day and age of greed ohhh but wait sounds familiar 100 ish years ago....peoplekind….

[RockyMountainMusic]

Originally Posted by NCC

What wiped out all of the moose in Manitoba which is causing the FN hunters to come to Alberta? Don’t tell me it’s the farmers because the farmland is the only place in Alberta where we have moose left.

Well I honestly couldn’t tell you anything about Manitoba as I’ve only stopped there once on a flight heading south so not sure, but if I were to bet on it I would bet it would be multiple things over time just like here not just one cause but hey could be wrong like I said don’t know Manitoba. But I do know here And considering farmland makes up the majority of AB it kinda would make sense that farmland has moose except I still know if that there are plenty of moose in the north and also the mountains... I have seen how the bios do their numbers here and all I can say is wow.

[Moosetalker]

So after reading through all the comments, I now have some more Question's.

As I have stated before personally I am not against the Resident Indigenous/Metis rights to a reasonable sustainable harvest as many of our Status members have said they pay taxes and support our economy and do so 365 days a year.

I would like more control on the Non Resident harvesting. To my mind it is no different than the whole Non resident non resident alien outfitted hunter scenario If it should continue I see no reason why the Councils and Associations couldn't impose a Must have a Resident Treaty Member Guide for the duration with a Maximum of 2 Non resident hunters per guide and as they are utilizing an Alberta resource they should have to pay for guide be it in cash or a portion of the harvest that must be shared with the guides band.

#1. Why if all the other provinces were able to successfully dis allow Non resident indigenous/metis from harvesting in their province. Why is Alberta unable to do the same?...
If anyone knows feel free to pipe up?Gotta be some reason this was reversed other than it being tabled by the NDP so was it a bad piece of legislation? or did it just get the UCP its by the NDP scrap it treatment.

However I will be sending a letter to our Environment Minister about this for sure.

#2. I know the Metis harvesting group have some control of their harvesters in that supposedly not just any individual with a smidgen of Indigenous blood can claim the right and go shoot whatever...
Are they {the Association} collecting and or trying to have some control over what is taken and where do they or are any of our Metis members aware of this as I was just wondering ?

#3. This will be a tough one. And I know the current me first mentality pretty much prevalent among many Albertan s from any ethnic background...
But are there any Indigenous/Metis members that also Personally believe something needs to be done about at least spreading out the harvest and imposing some form of self regulation to achieve some form of sustainability?

[Talking moose]

^ I know someone that is status that refused to hunt in the way granted to them and buy tags and draws like a resident non status would. Sadly he passed away in a car accident. He would of been embarrassed to take advantage of it while so many others were not allowed. I also know of others that are in the same mindset. But definitely the minority.

[philintheblank]

I know a couple status FN. One of them hasnt shot a moose in a 3 year and the other in 4. They took a while to eat through them and weren't in a hurry to shoot more. Seems reasonable to me.

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Do some research ...

Not gonna research it. I don’t care. Even the research probably is incorrect.
But I’d like to know why it matters that whitey did all these things without any numbers to support it, and then the expectation that I am supposed somehow be okay with the disgusting debacle that goes on now. Oh, and because I’m white I think the expectation is that I shut up and don’t use similar terms as whitey in return.

The absolute mess things are in has everything to do with a power struggle. And right now, there’s not a whole lot I can do about anything.

It is all about the power and control. Just a dysfunctional system with a bunch of dysfunctional selfishness on both sides. Logic could come up with some pretty good solutions in a heartbeat. But that isn’t going to happen by me expressing ideas in this forum.

The whole thread topic can be answered in a word: No

No we do not have enough moose. This current situation is unsustainable. That can’t be argued

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

Not gonna research it. I don’t care. Even the research probably is incorrect.
But I’d like to know why it matters that whitey did all these things without any numbers to support it, and then the expectation that I am supposed somehow be okay with the disgusting debacle that goes on now. Oh, and because I’m white I think the expectation is that I shut up and don’t use similar terms as whitey in return.

The absolute mess things are in has everything to do with a power struggle. And right now, there’s not a whole lot I can do about anything.

It is all about the power and control. Just a dysfunctional system with a bunch of dysfunctional selfishness on both sides. Logic could come up with some pretty good solutions in a heartbeat. But that isn’t going to happen by me expressing ideas in this forum.

The whole thread topic can be answered in a word: No

No we do not have enough moose. This current situation is unsustainable. That can’t be argued

Fully understand what you are getting at and agree the present system doesn’t work

[dustinjoels]

There’s roughly a population of 300,000 FN/Métis in Alberta. This is about equal to the number of registered hunters. It all comes down to votes. Probably 70-80% of registered hunters vote right wing (conservative in whatever party it is at the time) anyways. If the UCP were to try and curtail or eliminate FN hunting rights, they’d lose way more votes from FN than they would gain. Plus any voting member of the general public which is anti hunting or neutral would see this as another slight against the FN and it would hurt politically.

The thing that does make sense is eliminating unregulated harvest from non Alberta resident FN in Alberta. They have their own areas in their own provinces. If they don’t help manage the game as stewards of the land in their home province, tough luck. I’d think local FN would/should be on board with this course of action and would be a good start to a partnership amongst all albertans to preserve big game such as moose for future generations.

I find it awfully hard to believe that back in the day, with limited transportation and potentially hostile tribal territories to navigate, FN from Winnipeg were making the trek to peace river to hunt for their communities back home.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

There’s roughly a population of 300,000 FN/Métis in Alberta. This is about equal to the number of registered hunters. It all comes down to votes. Probably 70-80% of registered hunters vote right wing (conservative in whatever party it is at the time) anyways. If the UCP were to try and curtail or eliminate FN hunting rights, they’d lose way more votes from FN than they would gain. Plus any voting member of the general public which is anti hunting or neutral would see this as another slight against the FN and it would hurt politically.

The thing that does make sense is eliminating unregulated harvest from non Alberta resident FN in Alberta. They have their own areas in their own provinces. If they don’t help manage the game as stewards of the land in their home province, tough luck. I’d think local FN would/should be on board with this course of action and would be a good start to a partnership amongst all albertans to preserve big game such as moose for future generations.

I find it awfully hard to believe that back in the day, with limited transportation and potentially hostile tribal territories to navigate, FN from Winnipeg were making the trek to peace river to hunt for their communities back home.

On point!!!!

[Who Da Fisherman]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

There’s roughly a population of 300,000 FN/Métis in Alberta. This is about equal to the number of registered hunters. It all comes down to votes. Probably 70-80% of registered hunters vote right wing (conservative in whatever party it is at the time) anyways. If the UCP were to try and curtail or eliminate FN hunting rights, they’d lose way more votes from FN than they would gain. Plus any voting member of the general public which is anti hunting or neutral would see this as another slight against the FN and it would hurt politically.

The thing that does make sense is eliminating unregulated harvest from non Alberta resident FN in Alberta. They have their own areas in their own provinces. If they don’t help manage the game as stewards of the land in their home province, tough luck. I’d think local FN would/should be on board with this course of action and would be a good start to a partnership amongst all albertans to preserve big game such as moose for future generations.

I find it awfully hard to believe that back in the day, with limited transportation and potentially hostile tribal territories to navigate, FN from Winnipeg were making the trek to peace river to hunt for their communities back home.

And take away hunter host, make it by draw. I still cannot understand how AB lets everyone come and shoot here.
WDF

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by dustinjoels

I find it awfully hard to believe that back in the day, with limited transportation and potentially hostile tribal territories to navigate, FN from Winnipeg were making the trek to peace river to hunt for their communities back home.

It was the fur trade and new age tools that allowed for the cree expansion anyways. Before white man there was no way anyone from 500 miles away was coming to harvest game. Tribal warfare was serious business and violent as all hell. There is also a few theories that the bison would of ended up they way they did even without market hunting just due to pressure.