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  #61  
Old 09-06-2020, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
And I have said it before and I will say it again just because it is legal doesn't make it right especially with declining numbers so that being said we as outdoors people govern ourselves...make ethical decisions to ensure to the best of our abilities a healthy population......man I have seen it so many times with hunting or fishing a massive decline in numbers due to a compilation of bad decisions...
Do you apply for cow moose every year and when issued a tag you then throw it in the garbage? Seems the best way to govern ourselves if we believe a specie is in trouble no?
I’m being hypothetical of course....

Last edited by Talking moose; 09-06-2020 at 09:32 AM.
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  #62  
Old 09-06-2020, 09:59 AM
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Do you apply for cow moose every year and when issued a tag you then throw it in the garbage? Seems the best way to govern ourselves if we believe a specie is in trouble no?
I’m being hypothetical of course....
now that's just crazy talk right there....im going bird hunting now....a little woods time
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  #63  
Old 09-06-2020, 01:26 PM
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It seems to happen everywhere up north the last few years, Every local you talk to mentions a group of hunters that come up middle of August and slaughter a bunch of moose and elk and head back before the season opens. Won’t be much left if this continues for years to come


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  #64  
Old 09-06-2020, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hunterngather View Post
Im treaty.
Pay taxes.
Work full time.
Own my home.
Hunt.
Shoot.
Fish.

Some say they want equality across the board. I agree.

Easy to say.

Tough to say its happening when 80 percent of the job interviews you can see and feel the person react to your skin color and how you talk. Also have had employers ask why I am applying for a job of reserve.

Had a gun shop ask me why am I buying ammo when the reserve gives me ammo.

Im 43. Never had a traffic infraction yet have been pulled over by police, peace officers over 30 times. No joke haha.

My entire career I have been paid less than co workers with less experience and tenure.

My kids (grade 10) have forever endured ridicule and comments on them being "indian"

My parents still cant say they love me. Yes they attended Residential schools.

Its pretty hard shopping in big box stores without LPO's following me. (At this point they are laughable how easy they are to spot)

I cant remeber the last time a person at the grocery store till has asked me how I am doing.

3 times in the last year gassing up people have commented "must not have car washes on the rez"

I have never been granted time off from any employer Ive had to attend ceremonial activities that lay outside of Christian holidays.

I gather medicine along many lease roads. Ive been accosted by many people over the years asking what im doing and straight out calling me a poacher.

I dont have the luxury of "the benifit of doubt" that is a term and benifit for non-indigenous people in my experience.

So when people cry for equality, I dont believe they really have any idea of what they are asking for.

To me they are asking for things to be equal for THEM in THIER eyes. People that cry "equality for all" have zero bloody clue what life is for someone with a skin color that aint white.

I dont want any part of an argument, lust sharing my experience.
Bolded nailed it. And thank you for posting.
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  #65  
Old 09-06-2020, 07:22 PM
GreyJay GreyJay is offline
 
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Originally Posted by cody j View Post
My friend who operates wells in wmu 354 said there is a bunch of treaty hunters from Manitoba hunting there now. Do we really have enough moose for this type of unlimited hunting? I heard people say there isn’t much for moose left in Manitoba, I guess that’s why they are here.
And i have my special early draw for 354 this season. Heading out in early Oct.
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  #66  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:35 PM
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In all honesty we would do better preserving our moose if we spent more time hunting predators. Its a damn shame we can't hunt grizz but BBs and wolves put a hellva dent on them.

As for the reefer truck talk I'd like to see pictures. I'm sure the local bands would be raising a stink if this was a large problem. But I dont really now anything about it other than internet rumors.
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  #67  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by ESOXangler View Post
In all honesty we would do better preserving our moose if we spent more time hunting predators. Its a damn shame we can't hunt grizz but BBs and wolves put a hellva dent on them.

As for the reefer truck talk I'd like to see pictures. I'm sure the local bands would be raising a stink if this was a large problem. But I dont really now anything about it other than internet rumors.


Internet rumors?

This crap has been going on for decades (before smart phones/internet). Wake up and smell the coffee...
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  #68  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:27 AM
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In all honesty we would do better preserving our moose if we spent more time hunting predators. Its a damn shame we can't hunt grizz but BBs and wolves put a hellva dent on them.

As for the reefer truck talk I'd like to see pictures. I'm sure the local bands would be raising a stink if this was a large problem. But I dont really now anything about it other than internet rumors.
well experienced it first hand....take it for what it's worth...northern Saskatchewan,,,,slobs were from Manitoba....just before opening Elk season....
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  #69  
Old 09-08-2020, 10:08 AM
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First there is plenty of responsible and ethical FN hunters out there. I have worked with many hard working FN. I also have many FN friends. I was named after a close family friend who is FN and grew up with him being one of my mentors hunting. No lack of positive experiences with FN

Now I can also say I have experienced plenty of the opposite as well. There is also those who were low life’s. Also seen plenty of waste and abuse of FN rights by some FN. Never seen a refer truck slaughter but know first hand some shoot a fair number of animals to sell the meat. Met idiots who are too lazy to recover an animal because it was too far from the road. Fish and game taken just for it to spoil. There is without a doubt those who abuse their rights

This is not a matter of race but a matter of the laws out there and lack of enforcement. In my opinion we would see these issues or variations of them if these rights were given to any group. The reality is there is a portion of the human race that will exploit any possible advantage regardless if it is righ or wrong. This is why the present system has issues

As for FN experiencing problems a white person would not understand I believe it. But this can be said about every single race including white people. The cruel truth is a portion of society judges those who are different from themselves. Every culture experiences negative treatment or judgement by others based on race or beliefs. This whitey has a experienced it plenty of times from multiple other races but I think white people are the only ones who discriminate against other white people to virtue signal lol

Yes I would like to see one set of hunting and fishing rules because it would make it easier to hold those responsible for wasting or over harvesting fish/game. I also believe it would make it easier to manage the resources so everyone can benefit from them.

Would be nice if we could throw out the race card and just do what is best to manage or resources where everyone could benefit but I doubt I will see it in my life time.

Don’t care what background you are just have respect for our fish/game use it in moderation and don’t be wasteful or greedy

If this makes me racist I can live with it
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  #70  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:53 AM
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Resource management shouldn’t be controlled by the colour of your skin. That’s all I have to say.
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  #71  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:03 PM
ElmerPhud ElmerPhud is offline
 
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Why is it we always seem to blame something for the lack of game animals, fish, etc? Yes, predation can be part of the problem. Yes, natural disease, ticks, etc. also play a part. Yes, poaching can be part of the problem and yes Aboriginal hunting rights may also be part of the problem. But as history has shown, man tends to be the leading cause (actually man’s narcissism and greed) for the major disruption or extinction of species.

Now couple narcissism and greed with technology (ATV’s, radios/cells, GPS, Trail Cams, Sonar Fish Finders, and the internet), and the odds for game animal and fish survival seems rather unlikely. Sure, Government attempts to manage wildlife, but my experience is they’ve had as many failures as successes.

Most individuals do not need hunting to sustain themselves and their families. Or in other words, modern man can survive without having to forage for food (Groceries stores provide all that we need). Speaking for myself, I hunt and fish as part of my heritage, passion, and preference for “naturally raised” protein, plus taste.

So, while I dislike the fact that I may only have one last crack at hunting Moose in Alberta due the draw priority level required and my age. I can live with this fact if it provides the young individuals in my life the opportunity to do what I’ve loved for all my life. The question now is, what is everyone else willing to do to ensure the tradition of hunting and fishing lasts beyond this generation?
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  #72  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerPhud View Post
Why is it we always seem to blame something for the lack of game animals, fish, etc? Yes, predation can be part of the problem. Yes, natural disease, ticks, etc. also play a part. Yes, poaching can be part of the problem and yes Aboriginal hunting rights may also be part of the problem. But as history has shown, man tends to be the leading cause (actually man’s narcissism and greed) for the major disruption or extinction of species.

Now couple narcissism and greed with technology (ATV’s, radios/cells, GPS, Trail Cams, Sonar Fish Finders, and the internet), and the odds for game animal and fish survival seems rather unlikely. Sure, Government attempts to manage wildlife, but my experience is they’ve had as many failures as successes.

Most individuals do not need hunting to sustain themselves and their families. Or in other words, modern man can survive without having to forage for food (Groceries stores provide all that we need). Speaking for myself, I hunt and fish as part of my heritage, passion, and preference for “naturally raised” protein, plus taste.

So, while I dislike the fact that I may only have one last crack at hunting Moose in Alberta due the draw priority level required and my age. I can live with this fact if it provides the young individuals in my life the opportunity to do what I’ve loved for all my life. The question now is, what is everyone else willing to do to ensure the tradition of hunting and fishing lasts beyond this generation?

Everyone one else other than you? What are you doing? Besides entering the draw and killing moose when you get drawn.....
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  #73  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
well experienced it first hand....take it for what it's worth...northern Saskatchewan,,,,slobs were from Manitoba....just before opening Elk season....
I’ve witnessed the reefer truck with 9 elk laying in the ditch next to it while they were loading it, not sure how many were in it already, on Tieland road west during bow season. It’s not just an urban legend.
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  #74  
Old 09-08-2020, 03:16 PM
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I’ve witnessed the reefer truck with 9 elk laying in the ditch next to it while they were loading it, not sure how many were in it already, on Tieland road west during bow season. It’s not just an urban legend.
So take pictures and make it public. I'm not disagreeing that it happens, all I am saying is until its public ill assume its a rumor. If I bump into one this year ill sure as hell post the pics up.
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  #75  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Unlike you, I am a realist, and I see the situation, for what it is. They implement draws to replace over the counter unlimited counter tags, because the population can no longer sustain the harvest that occurs with unlimited tags. The priorities required to draw a tag increase, because the population is falling further and further below being able to sustain the harvest that would occur with unlimited tags. It's really that simple, even if you fail to comprehend the situation.
In the end it won't matter what colour ones skin is. There won't be enough animals to go around and the horses, atv's, argo's, e-bikes, airplanes,drones, GPS, light gathering optics, range finders, precision shooting rifles and ammo, and the like won't be used much as it will all be LOTTERY. All because of gutless politicians and the compounding of bad decisions.
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  #76  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:37 PM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Originally Posted by ESOXangler View Post
So take pictures and make it public. I'm not disagreeing that it happens, all I am saying is until its public ill assume its a rumor. If I bump into one this year ill sure as hell post the pics up.


Well you go on thinking we’re lying and assume it doesn’t happen, ignorance is bliss.
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  #77  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ElmerPhud View Post
Why is it we always seem to blame something for the lack of game animals, fish, etc? Yes, predation can be part of the problem. Yes, natural disease, ticks, etc. also play a part. Yes, poaching can be part of the problem and yes Aboriginal hunting rights may also be part of the problem. But as history has shown, man tends to be the leading cause (actually man’s narcissism and greed) for the major disruption or extinction of species.

Now couple narcissism and greed with technology (ATV’s, radios/cells, GPS, Trail Cams, Sonar Fish Finders, and the internet), and the odds for game animal and fish survival seems rather unlikely. Sure, Government attempts to manage wildlife, but my experience is they’ve had as many failures as successes.

Most individuals do not need hunting to sustain themselves and their families. Or in other words, modern man can survive without having to forage for food (Groceries stores provide all that we need). Speaking for myself, I hunt and fish as part of my heritage, passion, and preference for “naturally raised” protein, plus taste.

So, while I dislike the fact that I may only have one last crack at hunting Moose in Alberta due the draw priority level required and my age. I can live with this fact if it provides the young individuals in my life the opportunity to do what I’ve loved for all my life. The question now is, what is everyone else willing to do to ensure the tradition of hunting and fishing lasts beyond this generation?
The only place in Alberta where there is a decent moose population is the eastern farmland. No bears, no wolves, controlled tag numbers, limited subsistence hunting, and plenty of tame forage. We have the ability to increase ungulate numbers but don’t have the will.
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  #78  
Old 09-08-2020, 06:54 PM
NCC NCC is offline
 
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Originally Posted by hunterngather View Post
Im treaty.
Pay taxes.
Work full time.
Own my home.
Hunt.
Shoot.
Fish.

Some say they want equality across the board. I agree.

Easy to say.

Tough to say its happening when 80 percent of the job interviews you can see and feel the person react to your skin color and how you talk. Also have had employers ask why I am applying for a job of reserve.

Had a gun shop ask me why am I buying ammo when the reserve gives me ammo.

Im 43. Never had a traffic infraction yet have been pulled over by police, peace officers over 30 times. No joke haha.

My entire career I have been paid less than co workers with less experience and tenure.

My kids (grade 10) have forever endured ridicule and comments on them being "indian"

My parents still cant say they love me. Yes they attended Residential schools.

Its pretty hard shopping in big box stores without LPO's following me. (At this point they are laughable how easy they are to spot)

I cant remeber the last time a person at the grocery store till has asked me how I am doing.

3 times in the last year gassing up people have commented "must not have car washes on the rez"

I have never been granted time off from any employer Ive had to attend ceremonial activities that lay outside of Christian holidays.

I gather medicine along many lease roads. Ive been accosted by many people over the years asking what im doing and straight out calling me a poacher.

I dont have the luxury of "the benifit of doubt" that is a term and benifit for non-indigenous people in my experience.

So when people cry for equality, I dont believe they really have any idea of what they are asking for.

To me they are asking for things to be equal for THEM in THIER eyes. People that cry "equality for all" have zero bloody clue what life is for someone with a skin color that aint white.

I dont want any part of an argument, lust sharing my experience.
Thanks for posting your experiences; it’s hard to believe that people are that ignorant in this day and age.

I lived near a Cree for many years. I was driving to town one day and a group of subsistence hunters were drinking beer beside a moose calf they had shot on the shoulder of the road. When I returned, the calf was still lying there along with a bunch of empty beer cans.

A few years later while cutting a fence line, I found a young bull moose 50 yds off the road in February about 1 mile from the reserve. No foot prints left the road to look for it.

A few years after that, my daughter found two young bulls shot in the same area on an oil lease. One of the moose had been partially butchered and the other hadn’t been touched.

What do you suggest should be done to curtail this type of behaviour?
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  #79  
Old 09-08-2020, 08:47 PM
hunterngather hunterngather is offline
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Thanks for posting your experiences; it’s hard to believe that people are that ignorant in this day and age.

I lived near a Cree for many years. I was driving to town one day and a group of subsistence hunters were drinking beer beside a moose calf they had shot on the shoulder of the road. When I returned, the calf was still lying there along with a bunch of empty beer cans.

A few years later while cutting a fence line, I found a young bull moose 50 yds off the road in February about 1 mile from the reserve. No foot prints left the road to look for it.

A few years after that, my daughter found two young bulls shot in the same area on an oil lease. One of the moose had been partially butchered and the other hadn’t been touched.

What do you suggest should be done to curtail this type of behaviour?
Curtail poaching?

I dont know.

I'm guessing your stories are suspected to be at the hands of Indigenous people because of the proximity to the rez?

I know my circle would bitch slap anyone that treated an animal like that.

There is strict procedures to do in sequence after dropping an animal.

It kinda scares me when the vast majority of poaching stories on forums such as this mention it being done by Indigenous people.

Obviously poaching stories angers people.

We see anger often when out and about. Getting to the point where we are worried that some day someone will pull a gun in anger.
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Old 09-08-2020, 09:20 PM
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Curtail poaching?

I dont know.

I'm guessing your stories are suspected to be at the hands of Indigenous people because of the proximity to the rez?

I know my circle would bitch slap anyone that treated an animal like that.

There is strict procedures to do in sequence after dropping an animal.

It kinda scares me when the vast majority of poaching stories on forums such as this mention it being done by Indigenous people.

Obviously poaching stories angers people.

We see anger often when out and about. Getting to the point where we are worried that some day someone will pull a gun in anger.
It’s not poaching stories, that’s the problem, it’s legal killing. It’s unregulated, unlimited and totally undermines the efforts we non status hunters have been putting forward to conserve our wildlife populations. It’s the sense of entitlement that goes along with that status card. There is no viable reason for unregulated hunting, it’s just because our forefathers has the foresight of a three year old.
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  #81  
Old 09-09-2020, 06:53 AM
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It’s not poaching stories, that’s the problem, it’s legal killing. It’s unregulated, unlimited and totally undermines the efforts we non status hunters have been putting forward to conserve our wildlife populations. It’s the sense of entitlement that goes along with that status card. There is no viable reason for unregulated hunting, it’s just because our forefathers has the foresight of a three year old.
Well said Kurt.
It's also frustrating for licenced hunters having to now complete mandatory harvest reporting on all draws or risk gov't reprimands/fees for the next years hunting draws. As far as I know subsistence harvesters do not have to report the number of harvests made except for sheep, cougar, grizzly bear and bison? How does the gov't even get a handle on moose/elk/deer numbers to set draw tags when this is the case?
Then when a licenced hunter finally pulls a draw tag after years of waiting, you hear of the reports of large harvest groups like the OP stated going in just before the draw tag holders are allowed to hunt? Definitely makes for a frustrating situation for the licenced hunters abiding by the set draw seasons IMO....
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  #82  
Old 09-09-2020, 06:57 AM
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It’s not poaching stories, that’s the problem, it’s legal killing. It’s unregulated, unlimited and totally undermines the efforts we non status hunters have been putting forward to conserve our wildlife populations. It’s the sense of entitlement that goes along with that status card. There is no viable reason for unregulated hunting, it’s just because our forefathers has the foresight of a three year old.
Exactly....things have to change drastically but has to be core repairs not this bs satellite fixes that are more like handouts etc....might make our country a little uneasy for a few years but something has to be done....starts with a government with balls....good luck on that....
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Old 09-09-2020, 07:38 AM
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It’s not poaching stories, that’s the problem, it’s legal killing. It’s unregulated, unlimited and totally undermines the efforts we non status hunters have been putting forward to conserve our wildlife populations. It’s the sense of entitlement that goes along with that status card. There is no viable reason for unregulated hunting, it’s just because our forefathers has the foresight of a three year old.
well said
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  #84  
Old 09-09-2020, 08:02 AM
Kurt505 Kurt505 is offline
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Exactly....things have to change drastically but has to be core repairs not this bs satellite fixes that are more like handouts etc....might make our country a little uneasy for a few years but something has to be done....starts with a government with balls....good luck on that....
The guys with the status card in their pocket aren’t going to step up and say “Hey, we don’t need all the animals, let’s share with all Canadians” and call for equal regulation, and the guys without the status card in their pocket won’t dare ask that regulations be put in place. Ultimately it falls on the “keepers of the lands” responsibility to impose self regulation before it’s too late but if we use Manitoba as an example we can all see where this is heading. Someone has to step up for change or things will just continue to get worse.
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  #85  
Old 09-09-2020, 09:06 AM
JD848 JD848 is online now
 
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The guys with the status card in their pocket aren’t going to step up and say “Hey, we don’t need all the animals, let’s share with all Canadians” and call for equal regulation, and the guys without the status card in their pocket won’t dare ask that regulations be put in place. Ultimately it falls on the “keepers of the lands” responsibility to impose self regulation before it’s too late but if we use Manitoba as an example we can all see where this is heading. Someone has to step up for change or things will just continue to get worse.
Yes KURT Manitoba and northern Ontario have lost up to 90 percent in places,few pockets in Ontario up north ,but there being hunted hard and FW do nothing. Kenora area 7b I believe let out one tag for an area hundreds of square miles I was told the other day, one tag,one lucky hunter maybe gets his moose. I wouldn't have the heart to take that tag if it was that bad,FW should have enough brains to shut it down completely.Shut down to all as a protected species till they come back.

Predators and poaching and over hunting were to blame for a lot of it,but no one wanted to control them and just shot moose till they realized it's over.

I would hear shots many times at night and see many kills by humans in march even April which is crime against nature .The ones who over hunted it now can go eat there boots,the whole dam lot.Boil them first it soften them up.

It saddens me to see it go this way,but once it's done it's to late and now off to safeway which in a sick way makes me laugh.

If you love something and destroy it then don't expect others to feel sad for you about how it was managed.

if people are waiting for Ottawa to help us or the provinces to straighten this out ,it won't happen.

Both FN' and whitey have been both lied to by our leaders for decades and everything mismanaged ,so maybe it's time for both side to sit together and try and solve this and leave BS politicians out in the street while trying to come to an agreement. IT's a long shot ,but still worth a try for the future on both sides to have something left in the future.I'm sure more would welcome this approach then we would think.

There is no more room anymore for you owe us this or that, the pot is empty and both sides will suffer,so for those who care, get at it and the people are the ones in charge of this country.We put people there to help us and they have failed in the worst way in every way,lie after lie lining there pockets.A moose means nothing to them.

You guys still have good hunting,but it will be gone in a heart beat if not managed .

SO my answer to this thread is NO THERE IS NOT ENOUGH MOOSE BY A LONG SHOT.

Every one treat each other good and the best to all. Fighting won't help,but proper actions may be the way to go before it's to late.

JD
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  #86  
Old 09-09-2020, 10:25 AM
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It's not if hunting is shut down due to a shortage of animals, it's when. First licensed hunting will go, and then the former licensed hunters will join the anti hunters, to put even more pressure on the politicians to end all hunting. And of course with no licensed hunters the anti firearms people will ramp up the pressure to ban all firearms, as they will claim there is no legitimate reason to have them.
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  #87  
Old 09-09-2020, 10:31 AM
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58thecat 58thecat is online now
 
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Location: At the end of the Thirsty Beaver Trail, Pinsky lake, Alberta.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
The guys with the status card in their pocket aren’t going to step up and say “Hey, we don’t need all the animals, let’s share with all Canadians” and call for equal regulation, and the guys without the status card in their pocket won’t dare ask that regulations be put in place. Ultimately it falls on the “keepers of the lands” responsibility to impose self regulation before it’s too late but if we use Manitoba as an example we can all see where this is heading. Someone has to step up for change or things will just continue to get worse.
I have always said even if it is legal doesn't mean its right so yup all involved need to do the right thing....the guberment sure the heck aint….bad enough we got poachers running amuck let the LEO's focus on them.....
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  #88  
Old 09-09-2020, 10:36 AM
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Bergerboy Bergerboy is offline
 
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One thing to remember is the population of Alberta has also doubled in the last 40 years. 2MM in 1980 until 4.3MM now.


Oh, and here is the link for credibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Alberta
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  #89  
Old 09-09-2020, 11:55 AM
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Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
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t
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergerboy View Post
One thing to remember is the population of Alberta has also doubled in the last 40 years. 2MM in 1980 until 4.3MM now.


Oh, and here is the link for credibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Alberta
Does the hunting licenses sold coralate with the population increase?
Edit. I won’t be lazy. I’ll look. Lol
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  #90  
Old 09-09-2020, 11:59 AM
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Talking moose Talking moose is offline
 
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Downward trend last 5 years. That’s as far back as I could find.



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