Do we have enough moose?

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by James M

Wrong.

So we used that very example when talking to the COs on Wab last winter. There was 2 of them and they both said that he is entitled to harvest as many as he feels is needed on lakes that allow harvest. The example they cited was because Pigeon allows a harvest he can there but on a lake like Wab he can't.

[elkhunter11]

In this day and age, with modern firearms, atvs etc, there isn't enough game to support any unregulated harvest. It wouldn't be as bad if people actually respected private land, but the people coming from Manitoba obviously don't, as there are already many cases before the courts in Saskatchewan. Unfortunately , these individuals will continue to wipe out the game populations in one area after another, until there is no game left for anyone. And when the game is gone, these people will just blame someone else, rather than accept responsibility for what they have done.

[270person]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

In this day and age, with modern firearms, atvs etc, there isn't enough game to support any unregulated harvest. It wouldn't be as bad if people actually respected private land, but the people coming from Manitoba obviously don't, as there are already many cases before the courts in Saskatchewan. Unfortunately , these individuals will continue to wipe out the game populations in one area after another, until there is no game left for anyone. And when the game is gone, these people will just blame someone else, rather than accept responsibility for what they have done.

All true. I don't think steward means what some people think it means. Webster's may have to redefine.

[Phil McCracken]

We are already experiencing priority numbers increasing in this province.

In 2 years, in the WMU I have hunted in many years near Peace River, the priority number for bull moose has increased from a 2 to a 4. Wonder why....

As most have already shared, we do not have the game population to support unregulated hunting.

This will bite us all in the azz very soon.

Pretty sad actually...

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Im treaty.
Pay taxes.
Work full time.
Own my home.
Hunt.
Shoot.
Fish.

Some say they want equality across the board. I agree.

Easy to say.

Tough to say its happening when 80 percent of the job interviews you can see and feel the person react to your skin color and how you talk. Also have had employers ask why I am applying for a job of reserve.

Had a gun shop ask me why am I buying ammo when the reserve gives me ammo.

Im 43. Never had a traffic infraction yet have been pulled over by police, peace officers over 30 times. No joke haha.

My entire career I have been paid less than co workers with less experience and tenure.

My kids (grade 10) have forever endured ridicule and comments on them being "indian"

My parents still cant say they love me. Yes they attended Residential schools.

Its pretty hard shopping in big box stores without LPO's following me. (At this point they are laughable how easy they are to spot)

I cant remeber the last time a person at the grocery store till has asked me how I am doing.

3 times in the last year gassing up people have commented "must not have car washes on the rez"

I have never been granted time off from any employer Ive had to attend ceremonial activities that lay outside of Christian holidays.

I gather medicine along many lease roads. Ive been accosted by many people over the years asking what im doing and straight out calling me a poacher.

I dont have the luxury of "the benifit of doubt" that is a term and benifit for non-indigenous people in my experience.

So when people cry for equality, I dont believe they really have any idea of what they are asking for.

To me they are asking for things to be equal for THEM in THIER eyes. People that cry "equality for all" have zero bloody clue what life is for someone with a skin color that aint white.

I dont want any part of an argument, lust sharing my experience.

Completely respect you and don't understand the idiots out there that come in all shapes, sizes, Color etc....have worked with many awesome natives who too put a honest full day's work in which like I said completely respect and honor....it's the dam guberment and thier stupid programs etc that provide pathetic handouts for many Canadian citizens that at the end of the day you and I pay for....

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

And also, I am an advid person of the land and love being outdoors.

I joined to learn and share anything I can to help other people.

Being treaty its hard to comment on hunting or share pics whithout feeling like Im gonna get accosted...

If this is not the forum for me it would be nice to know?

This is the forum for you, me, us....we all share the same passions...that's what this is all about.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by huntinstuff

Im white
Pay taxes.
Work full time.
Own my home.
Hunt.
Shoot.
Fish.


And because Im white, Ive been blamed for everyones hardships who isnt white

Apparently Im racist only because im white

I get blamed today for the stuff white people did 200 years ago

Sounds like you and I should have a beer someday. We have experienced a lot of the same type of racism

You guys need to invite me too

We all walk the same game trails.....

[BuckCuller]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

Im treaty.
Pay taxes.
Work full time.
Own my home.
Hunt.
Shoot.
Fish.

Some say they want equality across the board. I agree.

Easy to say.

Tough to say its happening when 80 percent of the job interviews you can see and feel the person react to your skin color and how you talk. Also have had employers ask why I am applying for a job of reserve.

Had a gun shop ask me why am I buying ammo when the reserve gives me ammo.

Im 43. Never had a traffic infraction yet have been pulled over by police, peace officers over 30 times. No joke haha.

My entire career I have been paid less than co workers with less experience and tenure.

My kids (grade 10) have forever endured ridicule and comments on them being "indian"

My parents still cant say they love me. Yes they attended Residential schools.

Its pretty hard shopping in big box stores without LPO's following me. (At this point they are laughable how easy they are to spot)

I cant remeber the last time a person at the grocery store till has asked me how I am doing.

3 times in the last year gassing up people have commented "must not have car washes on the rez"

I have never been granted time off from any employer Ive had to attend ceremonial activities that lay outside of Christian holidays.

I gather medicine along many lease roads. Ive been accosted by many people over the years asking what im doing and straight out calling me a poacher.

I dont have the luxury of "the benifit of doubt" that is a term and benifit for non-indigenous people in my experience.

So when people cry for equality, I dont believe they really have any idea of what they are asking for.

To me they are asking for things to be equal for THEM in THIER eyes. People that cry "equality for all" have zero bloody clue what life is for someone with a skin color that aint white.

I dont want any part of an argument, lust sharing my experience.

I’ve worked with many First Nations that have left thier reserves and made a better life for themselves and thier families. I Also have worked with many that still live on the reserves and their lives are definitely not nearly as good. On the reserve they get hounded for money and taken advantage of. The percentage of substance abuse is night and day.
Much of what you say is true however I don’t fully blame the average working white Canadian.
The blame rests solely on the government for creating this mess, they and they alone are the dividers of the nation.
They are the ones who made the vast majority of First Nations reliant on government handouts and created the vitriol towards them.
Just like the welfare and employment insurance there are many users and abusers which were all created by government handouts.
The users and abusers ruin the reputation of everyone involved with these government schemes.
I don’t believe it was every white in Canada that forced First Nation kids into residential schools anymore than I believe every native is a user and abuser of treaty rights.
The sole blame is on the government and I wish both sides would push back to fix the problem once and for all, that would be to the betterment of the First Nations and equality for all under one Nation not many subgroups.

The government does best what they have always done Divide And Conquer.

On a lighter note your lucky with the police stops as every time I get pulled over I get a ticket.

As to the question is there enough moose, well that is a hard no when the government wants to eradicate them in many areas to try to save a couple tiny Caribou heards that are destined for wolf extinction which is another form of government divide and conquer.

Good luck out there we are hoping to get a couple moose this year ourselves.

[wind drift]

Originally Posted by Alberta Bigbore

To correct your comment .. for what it is or was trying to be....




The status hunter treaty zone must touch or overlap into the provincial line.

Im treaty 4. It hits alberta. Not by a landslide. But it does, which in turn allows me to hunt 365 days a year with a centerfire rifle, even in such zones designsted Bow Muzzloader or Shotgun..... in case that question is asked, now its answered as well.



And to add, permission is required on private lands. The harvest of Caribou, bighorn sheep, mountain goat, cougar, and Grizzly, do have to be reported within a specific timeline, in Alberta.

I don’t see any statement in the documents linked here that limit hunting or fishing rights to only those that have treaties that touch the provincial boundaries:

https://www.alberta.ca/indigenous-hu...rta.aspx#toc-3

[1899b]

Grew up in McMurray when our family always had a general bull moose tag every year. Then as I was older and old enough to go by myself bull moose turned into a draw which I successfully got every two years at the longest and sometimes every year in fact. Shot my last bull in 2003 in WMU 530 smack dab where Albian Sands dug some holes and started a new tarsands mine. To say it used to produce for moose, whitetail and grouse would be an understatement. Can’t imagine what it’s like up there now with all the new industry and the hunting pressure from natives. Strategy up there now for me would be jet boat the Clearwater till one pops out on the bank. But then there is that silly draw we whiteys have to get though now. Can’t see anyone drawing every two years like I used to?

[7magtime]

I also run into a group of FN from BC a few years ago when doing a camp elk hunt in the north part of 344. Bull moose draw was around a 5 year wait at that time with no cow/calf draw for that zone. There was 4 FN in that camp and the day we left they had 7 moose hanging and the majority was cows/calves.....
I see this year that licenced hunters now need to have a draw to harvest a bull moose during archery season in WMU’s 339-346, wonder why?
Nixon is quick to show all the additional hunting opportunities this year in his message on the first page of the 2020 regs but looking at the important changes on the next page shows even more opportunities lost once again.
If this 24/7 unregulated harvesting from groups in Alberta and other provinces doesn’t get under control soon, hunting crown land moose will be a once in a lifetime tag IMO.....

[German]

Originally Posted by Sooner

Not uncommon to see out of province FN hunt camps before the season opens up. Seen it in 516 over the years and the foot hills south west of Whitecourt/Fox Creek. I wish it were not the case but we know they can.

516 gets hunted 365 days a year.

[8ballninja]

Hello fellow hunters

I apologize if this post is kind of long, I have so much to say and discuss and can finally post.

I am a FN hunter, fairly new sixth season. Don't enjoy truck hunting, hardly hunt moose but will take some when opportunity presents itself. Fell in love with hunting elk, spend most of my hunting season chasing elk. I do not hunt 365 only during fall/winter. I feed my family first then share meat with elderly that do not have hunters in their families to provide for them. I love being on the land and feel great when my family is eating from a kill that I put a ton of work into harvesting. I hunt cooking lake blackfoot and have done hauls that even meateater himself would be proud of.

I want to add to the discussion but do not want to get into any arguing please. I appreciate good relationships between our people and there has been too much hostility between us lately. We can learn a lot from each other and both of our religions believe in treating others good.

Is there enough moose? No I don't believe there is enough to sustain all four provinces hunting party's. Can anything be done about it? I don't know because this stuff is all federal and the treaties supersede all provincial stuff.

Like the rest of you concerned hunters here I want opportunity for my son and future grandchildren to hunt and provide for our family. I agree with previous statements too that government screwed everything up and don't care about our love for the land here.

Good Luck to everybody here and hope you guys fill your tags and enjoy your time outdoors. Anybody need pointers for cooking lake blackfoot DM me, spent hundreds of hours and walked/biked hundreds of miles in there haha.

[bobwayzie]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

In this day and age, with modern firearms, atvs etc, there isn't enough game to support any unregulated harvest. It wouldn't be as bad if people actually respected private land, but the people coming from Manitoba obviously don't, as there are already many cases before the courts in Saskatchewan. Unfortunately , these individuals will continue to wipe out the game populations in one area after another, until there is no game left for anyone. And when the game is gone, these people will just blame someone else, rather than accept responsibility for what they have done.

100% this. In 10 years hunting will be a thing of the past if nothing changes.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by 8ballninja

Hello fellow hunters

I apologize if this post is kind of long, I have so much to say and discuss and can finally post.

I am a FN hunter, fairly new sixth season. Don't enjoy truck hunting, hardly hunt moose but will take some when opportunity presents itself. Fell in love with hunting elk, spend most of my hunting season chasing elk. I do not hunt 365 only during fall/winter. I feed my family first then share meat with elderly that do not have hunters in their families to provide for them. I love being on the land and feel great when my family is eating from a kill that I put a ton of work into harvesting. I hunt cooking lake blackfoot and have done hauls that even meateater himself would be proud of.

I want to add to the discussion but do not want to get into any arguing please. I appreciate good relationships between our people and there has been too much hostility between us lately. We can learn a lot from each other and both of our religions believe in treating others good.

Is there enough moose? No I don't believe there is enough to sustain all four provinces hunting party's. Can anything be done about it? I don't know because this stuff is all federal and the treaties supersede all provincial stuff.

Like the rest of you concerned hunters here I want opportunity for my son and future grandchildren to hunt and provide for our family. I agree with previous statements too that government screwed everything up and don't care about our love for the land here.

Good Luck to everybody here and hope you guys fill your tags and enjoy your time outdoors. Anybody need pointers for cooking lake blackfoot DM me, spent hundreds of hours and walked/biked hundreds of miles in there haha.

hello and welcome...you bring up valid points...whether we are legally allowed to do something we morally know what's right...we as outdoorsmen and women need to govern our actions and be responsible or there will be a lot less privilidges left for all us Canadians.

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by hunterngather

And also, I am an advid person of the land and love being outdoors.

I joined to learn and share anything I can to help other people.

Being treaty its hard to comment on hunting or share pics whithout feeling like Im gonna get accosted...

If this is not the forum for me it would be nice to know?

As far as I'm concerned the Alberta Outdoorsman forum is as much for you as anyone else. With you being an aboriginal I can totally sympathize with your comment though about the fear of being accosted for commenting on such matters as unregulated Native hunting or posting stories/pics of your exploits when they fall outside what is legal for non-natives to partake in. Its a shame. People can dislike the laws as they are written all they want but in my mind they should not dislike an individual simply because he is following those laws.

Its too bad. I'm sure you have some great stories and this place could use some more stories and pics...

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Positrac

As far as I'm concerned the Alberta Outdoorsman forum is as much for you as anyone else. With you being an aboriginal I can totally sympathize with your comment though about the fear of being accosted for commenting on such matters as unregulated Native hunting or posting stories/pics of your exploits when they fall outside what is legal for non-natives to partake in. Its a shame. People can dislike the laws as they are written all they want but in my mind they should not dislike an individual simply because he is following those laws.

Its too bad. I'm sure you have some great stories and this place could use some more stories and pics...

X2
I hate not having a moose in the freezer every year but if I was given the opportunity, darn tootin my freezer would be full of moose meat.

[hunterngather]

Originally Posted by Positrac

As far as I'm concerned the Alberta Outdoorsman forum is as much for you as anyone else. With you being an aboriginal I can totally sympathize with your comment though about the fear of being accosted for commenting on such matters as unregulated Native hunting or posting stories/pics of your exploits when they fall outside what is legal for non-natives to partake in. Its a shame. People can dislike the laws as they are written all they want but in my mind they should not dislike an individual simply because he is following those laws.

Its too bad. I'm sure you have some great stories and this place could use some more stories and pics...

It is too bad, but I get it.
Very touchy subject. Like I said not here to argue just learn and share what I can.

Anyways stay safe boys. Getting cooler out, love this time of year.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

X2
I hate not having a moose in the freezer every year but if I was given the opportunity, darn tootin my freezer would be full of moose meat.

Ya but not a January cow moose....and that's the crap,that happens...has to stop...period.

[Speckle55]

just some numbers may not be exact

1157 calf moose tags given out
5524 cow moose tags given out
12534 bull moose tags given out
under subscribed 125 this year left

1000 approximately killed on hi-ways per year.. die off roads unknown
trains un-known
loss of habitat x number hectares per year industrial n farming
fires n Pine Beatle reduced habitat too

predator numbers
aboriginal numbers

aerial surveys done as needed

can we leave the managing of moose to the professional's

Food for Thought

David

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Ya but not a January cow moose....and that's the crap,that happens...has to stop...period.

You do realize there is a cow moose season right? After the rut. Pregnant cow is pregnant cow......November or January......

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

just some numbers may not be exact

1157 calf moose tags given out
5524 cow moose tags given out
12534 bull moose tags given out
under subscribed 125 this year left

1000 approximately killed on hi-ways per year.. die off roads unknown
trains un-known
loss of habitat x number hectares per year industrial n farming
fires n Pine Beatle reduced habitat too

predator numbers
aboriginal numbers

aerial surveys done as needed

can we leave the managing of moose to the professional's

Food for Thought

David

The simple fact that people are now waiting years to draw those tags, and the regular over the counter tags are gone, is proof, that we don't have enough moose. Do you realize why there are under subscribed tags? It's because of access, not excess animals.

[bezzola]

The natives were in 346 in the beginning of August cleaned out a bunch moose.

[sweld]

Originally Posted by bezzola

The natives were in 346 in the beginning of August cleaned out a bunch moose.

We came across one of there kill sites. Cow moose right in the middle of the road. Didn’t even drag the legs head guys to the side.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Flight01]

Originally Posted by James M

Wrong.

You are correct James. That regulation has been around a while. Enforcement is a different issue.

[Speckle55]

you are so negative and always right n your logic ?

i just posted numbers (reason they give tags is because of excess)

since the draw system came in for both ungulate's n fish both have waiting

its a system to keep us hunting 120 000+

Remember what happened to the Bison (red faced)

haters will hate

David

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The simple fact that people are now waiting years to draw those tags, and the regular over the counter tags are gone, is proof, that we don't have enough moose. Do you realize why there are under subscribed tags? It's because of access, not excess animals.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

you are so negative and always right n your logic ?

i just posted numbers (reason they give tags is because of excess)

since the draw system came in for both ungulate's n fish both have waiting

its a system to keep us hunting 120 000+

Remember what happened to the Bison (red faced)

haters will hate

David

Unlike you, I am a realist, and I see the situation, for what it is. They implement draws to replace over the counter unlimited counter tags, because the population can no longer sustain the harvest that occurs with unlimited tags. The priorities required to draw a tag increase, because the population is falling further and further below being able to sustain the harvest that would occur with unlimited tags. It's really that simple, even if you fail to comprehend the situation.

[Speckle55]

you shoot any predators lately

i have shot 3 BB n ate in the last 2 years

David

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Unlike you, I am a realist, and I see the situation, for what it is. They implement draws to replace over the counter unlimited counter tags, because the population can no longer sustain the harvest that occurs with unlimited tags. The priorities required to draw a tag increase, because the population is falling further and further below being able to sustain the harvest that would occur with unlimited tags. It's really that simple, even if you fail to comprehend the situation.

[James M]

Originally Posted by Flight01

You are correct James. That regulation has been around a while. Enforcement is a different issue.

I know I’m right, regardless of what a possum cop tells someone else. I had a possum cop in red deer tell me I legally had to register a cougar by bringing the whole unskinned body in or I’d be charged. Funny how when I mentioned how there’s no requirement for that he had no response. Then when I showed up to register my skinned cougar I wasn’t charged. They love to blow smoke and make up rules as they go along. I go by what’s written in the regs, and if they choose to tell people something that contradicts that, well then they’re breeding their own ignorance and stupidity.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by Talking moose

You do realize there is a cow moose season right? After the rut. Pregnant cow is pregnant cow......November or January......

And I have said it before and I will say it again just because it is legal doesn't make it right especially with declining numbers so that being said we as outdoors people govern ourselves...make ethical decisions to ensure to the best of our abilities a healthy population......man I have seen it so many times with hunting or fishing a massive decline in numbers due to a compilation of bad decisions...