Standards vs Magnums

Pathfinder76 · #1 08-25-2014, 07:22 AM

A friend just emailed a group of us from Africa this morning. He has been there numerous times and killed hundreds if not thousands of head of game. Here is his text.

"Consider this...from Ken, my PH. This morning's exchange.
QUESTION: Can I use your 375 to shoot a wildebeest?
ANSWER: Certainly but why?
Q: to see it fall right down
A: it will run then fall down
Q: how far will it run
A: about as far as if you shoot it with a 270 or 30/06, maybe a couple of yards less
Q: well when will I see a difference
A: on elephant
Q: oh, ok"

Lefty-Canuck · #2 08-25-2014, 08:45 AM

Come on Chuck....everyone knows you need at least a .338mag for Dik Dik!

LC

260 Rem · #3 08-25-2014, 09:15 AM

I too have killed thousands, mostly with non-magnum ... and there a good number that run (or at least get down a hole). However, with the magnum, they typically don't move after they hit the ground

CNP · #4 08-25-2014, 11:03 AM

In my mind a 30.06 is a magnum without the label. Never owned a magnum labelled centrefire rifle and probably never will.

Leeper · #5 08-25-2014, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 260 Rem

I too have killed thousands, mostly with non-magnum ... and there a good number that run (or at least get down a hole). However, with the magnum, they typically don't move after they hit the ground

If you used a magnum, they would bounce a little when they hit!

Bushleague · #6 08-25-2014, 12:58 PM

I don't seem to have any need for one, if anything I would probably go down in size rather than up if I were to purchase another rifle.

So Chuck, are you or are you not thinking about a .338?

Cowtown guy · #7 08-25-2014, 01:25 PM

Is it necessary? Nope.
Is it anymore dead? Nope.
Do I have magnums? Yup. No good reason though.
For the record, of the 17 critters that I have killed in Africa with a .375 H&H this is my experience. No head shots were taken in this assortment of critters.
Zebra ran 150-175 yards with no lungs and a good exit wound.
One warthog sprinted about 40 yards then jumped straight up in the air and died in mid jump. The other was instantly out. Blesbok was a bang flop from 250 yards. 2 Impala never twitched a muscle. Nyala went about 15 yards mainly because it went downhill. My Duiker left a crater he went down so hard. Red Hartebeest never twitched. Eland walked about 5 yards before having another round placed under his chin when he turned to face us. 1 bushbuck cratered on the run and did 3 cartwheels, the other ran about 15 yards. My baboon fell over like the hammer of Thor hit it. Gemsbok ran about 130 yards missing both lungs and an offside shoulder was broken. Mountain Reedbuck fell flat and never twitched. A Kudu looked like he was struck by lightning. Finally a tiny springbok jumped straight into the air and went maybe 20 yards and fell over.

Kind of a mixed review as some of the smaller critters didn't bang flop and some of the bigger ones did.

I realize this doesn't equate to the years of experience some guys have. Just a quick observation on my personal results.

On the flip side though, one of the guys in our party had a .378 WBY. He killed 10 critters and fired a lot more shots than I did. Most animals were shot multiple times and one was not recovered. I think 7 or 8 required follow up shots.

MattSako · #8 08-25-2014, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehntr

In my mind a 30.06 is a magnum without the label. Never owned a magnum labelled centrefire rifle and probably never will.

Kauna · #9 08-25-2014, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

Is it necessary? Nope.
Is it anymore dead? Nope.
Do I have magnums? Yup. No good reason though.
For the record, of the 17 critters that I have killed in Africa with a .375 H&H this is my experience. No head shots were taken in this assortment of critters.
Zebra ran 150-175 yards with no lungs and a good exit wound.
One warthog sprinted about 40 yards then jumped straight up in the air and died in mid jump. The other was instantly out. Blesbok was a bang flop from 250 yards. 2 Impala never twitched a muscle. Nyala went about 15 yards mainly because it went downhill. My Duiker left a crater he went down so hard. Red Hartebeest never twitched. Eland walked about 5 yards before having another round placed under his chin when he turned to face us. 1 bushbuck cratered on the run and did 3 cartwheels, the other ran about 15 yards. My baboon fell over like the hammer of Thor hit it. Gemsbok ran about 130 yards missing both lungs and an offside shoulder was broken. Mountain Reedbuck fell flat and never twitched. A Kudu looked like he was struck by lightning. Finally a tiny springbok jumped straight into the air and went maybe 20 yards and fell over.

Kind of a mixed review as some of the smaller critters didn't bang flop and some of the bigger ones did.

I realize this doesn't equate to the years of experience some guys have. Just a quick observation on my personal results.

On the flip side though, one of the guys in our party had a .378 WBY. He killed 10 critters and fired a lot more shots than I did. Most animals were shot multiple times and one was not recovered. I think 7 or 8 required follow up shots.

This is some really good and hard nosed experience on actual game performance. My question would be what took you so long to realize this , and what have you changed to now instead of ..

Kauna · #10 08-25-2014, 05:09 PM

is the 375 not a minimum in some parts ? for some game and why? if not why would anyone in their right mind be carrying one ?

twofifty · #11 08-25-2014, 06:06 PM

Read a well thought out article by a journalist where a PH outfit keeps some 30-06 bolt rifles in camp as backup for clients whose magnum medium-bore rifles fail in the field, often from having ammo that is loaded too hot to extract reliably or for the hunter to shoot well.

The PH said that African plains game are more predictably harvested with the 30-06 because they are easier for the average client to shoot well without flinching.

Andrzej · #12 08-25-2014, 08:17 PM

IMO you can not discuss differences between cartridges unless you would specify bullet type, weight, muzzle velocity and not only if is Magnum or Standard.
Statements about taking hundreds of animals with 270 or 30-06 are pointless unless you are more specific, bullet weight and construction, muzzle velocity at least.
This standard vs magnum looks like "I killed 1000 animals with Winchester 70 so is better than Tikka.."

260 Rem · #13 08-25-2014, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeper

If you used a magnum, they would bounce a little when they hit!

My non-magnums were all .22LR and the magnum was 22HMR. Mostly, the latter just "blows em up".

Cowtown guy · #14 08-25-2014, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauna

is the 375 not a minimum in some parts ? for some game and why? if not why would anyone in their right mind be carrying one ?

It is the minimum for dangerous game in Africa. I'm not sure if that is for every country but I am sure it is for most.

To answer your second, why not? It doesn't destroy game, it doesn't kick like a SOB, and it can do absolutely anything you want it to.

Cowtown guy · #15 08-25-2014, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauna

This is some really good and hard nosed experience on actual game performance. My question would be what took you so long to realize this , and what have you changed to now instead of ..

I have this thing with getting a rifle, finding a load that it'll shoot accurately, killing something with it then getting another and starting all over again.

I have killed game with 11 different cartridges and I hope to make that number 13 after this season.

This fall I hope to whack something with a 300 WM and either a 7x57 or a .50 cal muzzleloader.

Then I will look for a .260 or a .260 AI when I am done with those. Then a 6.5x47 Lapua or a 6.5/284. It never seems to end.

But I will own another .375 H&H! There's just something about it that cartridge and I plan on killing a Cape Buffalo one day.

Kauna · #16 08-26-2014, 05:20 PM

...............

Pathfinder76 · #17 08-26-2014, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kauna

...............

Good move.

joebatt · #18 08-26-2014, 05:28 PM

30-06 and core locks is all I have ever needed.

stob · #19 08-26-2014, 08:44 PM

explore the 9.3 x 62 as an all rounder...286 gr

bat119 · #20 08-27-2014, 09:40 AM

Magnum is just another word for bigger, a catch phrase cartridge manufactures use to make bigger look better.

An example would be wine, a large bottle is called a magnum if a small bottle is enough why have a magnum?

BTW would a 280 Rem be considered a magnum 7X57?

1899b · #21 08-27-2014, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

I have this thing with getting a rifle, finding a load that it'll shoot accurately, killing something with it then getting another and starting all over again.

X2. Story of my life....

Bushleague · #22 08-27-2014, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck

Good move.

Yes, it was a good move. He bit his tong and refrained from leaving an inflammatory post up... which you yourself did not.

Mike_W · #23 08-27-2014, 12:12 PM

I like my magnums just because....now leave me alone

Cowtown guy · #24 08-27-2014, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushleague

Yes, it was a good move. He bit his tong and refrained from leaving an inflammatory post up... which you yourself did not.

Why would an inflammatory post be needed? I was neither snide nor ignorant. I answered a question honestly with actual experience of my own.

What was said that would call for a rude comment? If something was posted before, I did not see it.

Bushleague · #25 08-27-2014, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

Why would an inflammatory post be needed? I was neither snide nor ignorant. I answered a question honestly with actual experience of my own.

What was said that would call for a rude comment? If something was posted before, I did not see it.

I don't know why he would have made a post that he needed to take down, maby he misread something and later realized his mistake. Either way he changed it rather than leaving it up, which I think we can all appreciate rather than pick on him by posting our own inflammatory comments.

Leeper · #26 08-28-2014, 08:06 AM

In some parts of Africa, a cartridge of at least 375 caliber is mandated for the larger animals and some dangerous game (elephant, buffalo, Rhino, eland, hippo). Interestingly, this doesn't mean it has to be a 375 H&H and in some jurisdictions the 45/70 would be just fine (legally if not actually). So would the 38-55. Leeper