Here we go again re: feral horses

[sjemac]

Originally Posted by Matt L.

The horse slaughter industry came close to being destroyed based on emotions.

Until the reality of surplus unwanted horses appeared. Get a federal protection implemented and it is nearly impossible for the province to control the numbers if they get out of hand. Letting the Feds decide this will never come to any good. It will be a wedge that will eventually allow the antis to shut down huge tracts of the West Country. Whether you are for or against the horses, if you care about hunting and access to the wilderness you need to be against federal designation.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Not the anti hunters you need to worry about its the non hunters in the middle you may not want to sway to the anti side of things.

Exactly. Horses evoke very strong emotions in a lot of people. Shoot them especially ones running wild, and you will have made a lot of new enemies that wouldn't care if you had shot a bear, elk, of even wolf.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just curious on what areas you have encountered most of the horses you have seen?

From the couch of course!

[Matt L.]

I never said I was for the federal designation sjemac. I am against it, but I also do not think that shooting them is a wise idea.

[6tmile]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just curious on what areas you have encountered most of the horses you have seen?

I have seen them from the berland river towards grand cache, southwest of hinton, robb, brazeau dam on the southwest end and brazeau flats, (that's where we used to catch them) right up through to jobb pass, nordegg, and the cline river. There are quite a few and getting to be more all the time from what I have seen.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 6tmile

I have seen them from the berland river towards grand cache, southwest of hinton, robb, brazeau dam on the southwest end and brazeau flats, (that's where we used to catch them) right up through to jobb pass, nordegg, and the cline river. There are quite a few and getting to be more all the time from what I have seen.

That was more directed at BeeGuy but you are right the are slowly increasing forsure!

Many of the horses in the Cline Nordegg and Jobb areas are turned loose by the Natives at the bighorn.

[1899b]

Nordegg:

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by albertadave

....There's better ways to control their numbers than issuing tags for them......

Exactly, they simply need to cull them as they cull wolves, all of them. Much easier and cheaper than a wolf cull too. No worries about processing them the wolves and bears can clean up the carcass' OR they could poison the pony carcass and kill two birds with one stone.

[pikeslayer22]

Wow!!Good idea Nate and kill a bunch of hawks,eagles and other predators while your at it!

[gopher]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Wow!!Good idea Nate and kill a bunch of hawks,eagles and other predators while your at it!

What else do you expect from a houndsman? To naive to undersatand his own way of hunting has controversy.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Wow!!Good idea Nate and kill a bunch of hawks,eagles and other predators while your at it!

no hawks or eagles will be harmed in the execution of feral ponies and wolves.

what other predators would there be and why would it be a concern to anyone.

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by gopher

What else do you expect from a houndsman? To naive to undersatand his own way of hunting has controversy.

nope not naïve at all, I just don't care what you think.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

My comments stemmed from the first sentence, "some people still call them wild horses!"
Not about anything else. I then explained and showed my reasoning and will take a breath later thanks!!

Some of them are Wild horses. All of them are Feral horses.

Originally Posted by foothillsman

Could a preserve be set up, and that area would be the only place that wild(feral) horses be allowed to roam wild or free?

Finding a place may that is suitable may not be that easy, but it may be worth a try. And who's to say that other outdoor activities cannot be persued in the area such as quadding, hunting, hiking or fishing.

At first I thought that hunting would be the answer, but after further deliberation, I think that it would be pure poison to go that direction. Let the wild horse nuts be responsible for the horses, at their expense, not the taxpayer's expense.

Random thoughts or are you privy to the petition's agenda?

Other than excluding taxpayer's money, you pretty much nailed the desire of those behind the petition.



-Declare the species Native wildlife and give full protection from human caused mortality.
-Create a National Horse Park. Of course all 'Heritage' horses outside of the park will still have full protection.
-And, a Society will be put in charge of managing the species, not the government.... Of course taxpayer's dollars will be used to have WHOAS and the Canadian Wild Horse Foundation execute the Society's function.



If a horse hunt was required for management purposes. I'd apply for a Feral Horse hunting tag. These conjectured claims of public opinion wreaking havoc on the hunting community are laughable. If the general public was so concerned about these horses, the petition would not be neccessary.

Live trapping of the feral population is sufficient to manage the species. The people behind the petition are trying to eliminate this practice. This is not about managing the species, it is about loving and protecting every one until it dies of old age.

[orionab1]

Shoulda named this thread the "great horse and other animals photography thread". You guys got some nice photos here.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

nope not naïve at all, I just don't care what you think.

Aw too bad I thought you would tell me all about hounds.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Some of them are Wild horses. All of them are Feral horses.








Random thoughts or are you privy to the petition's agenda?

Other than excluding taxpayer's money, you pretty much nailed the desire of those behind the petition.



-Declare the species Native wildlife and give full protection from human caused mortality.
-Create a National Horse Park. Of course all 'Heritage' horses outside of the park will still have full protection.
-And, a Society will be put in charge of managing the species, not the government.... Of course taxpayer's dollars will be used to have WHOAS and the Canadian Wild Horse Foundation execute the Society's function.



If a horse hunt was required for management purposes. I'd apply for a Feral Horse hunting tag. These conjectured claims of public opinion wreaking havoc on the hunting community are laughable. If the general public was so concerned about these horses, the petition would not be neccessary.

Live trapping of the feral population is sufficient to manage the species. The people behind the petition are trying to eliminate this practice. This is not about managing the species, it is about loving and protecting every one until it dies of old age.

Cool story.

[creeky]

impressive and comprehensive set of photos Darcy!

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just curious on what areas you have encountered most of the horses you have seen?

Calling me out eh?

I worked in the ya ha area 10 years ago. Stayed at the mountain aire resort. Hell I was familiar with the accused crack head who worked there and he claimed to have built their big Quonset style hut.

I've shot gunned beers over the old rock crusher bell they had for a fire pit and pulled a few little fish out of the river nearby.

At one point I had seen a lot of that territory and many of te specifics are lost to memory, but we went down damn near every road west of sundre to the mountains and burnt timber area.

Did a few weeks of heli work which must have been getting close to ghost/waiporous area all the way back up to the resort and a fair ways nw of it as well.

Are you familiar with the brook trout cull program?
Specific waters, no limits. Kill'm all.

My working experience and having visited the backcountry where these feral animals reside and having viewed them and encountered them in varied situations isn't what informs my opinion however.

I've got some pics of the heli work and horses somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. Then we can take comfort in having ****ed an equal distance wrt useless images which really contribute nothing of scientific value.

Feral horses?

Round'm up!

[gopher]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Calling me out eh?

I worked in the ya ha area 10 years ago. Stayed at the mountain aire resort. Hell I was familiar with the accused crack head who worked there and he claimed to have built their big Quonset style hut.

I've shot gunned beers over the old rock crusher bell they had for a fire pit and pulled a few little fish out of the river nearby.

At one point I had seen a lot of that territory and many of te specifics are lost to memory, but we went down damn near every road west of sundre to the mountains and burnt timber area.

Did a few weeks of heli work which must have been getting close to ghost/waiporous area all the way back up to the resort and a fair ways nw of it as well.

Are you familiar with the brook trout cull program?
Specific waters, no limits. Kill'm all.

My working experience and having visited the backcountry where these feral animals reside and having viewed them and encountered them in varied situations isn't what informs my opinion however.

I've got some pics of the heli work and horses somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. Then we can take comfort in having ****ed an equal distance wrt useless images which really contribute nothing of scientific value.

Feral horses?

Round'm up!

I flew over B.C this winter and I have couch plus google so I must be an expert on Pine Beatle.

[new LT]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Calling me out eh?

I worked in the ya ha area 10 years ago. Stayed at the mountain aire resort. Hell I was familiar with the accused crack head who worked there and he claimed to have built their big Quonset style hut.

I've shot gunned beers over the old rock crusher bell they had for a fire pit and pulled a few little fish out of the river nearby.

At one point I had seen a lot of that territory and many of te specifics are lost to memory, but we went down damn near every road west of sundre to the mountains and burnt timber area.

Did a few weeks of heli work which must have been getting close to ghost/waiporous area all the way back up to the resort and a fair ways nw of it as well.


Are you familiar with the brook trout cull program?
Specific waters, no limits. Kill'm all.

My working experience and having visited the backcountry where these feral animals reside and having viewed them and encountered them in varied situations isn't what informs my opinion however.

I've got some pics of the heli work and horses somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. Then we can take comfort in having ****ed an equal distance wrt useless images which really contribute nothing of scientific value.

Feral horses?

Round'm up!

Why does this sound like a Jim.Hanna rerun........

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

Exactly, they simply need to cull them as they cull wolves, all of them. Much easier and cheaper than a wolf cull too. No worries about processing them the wolves and bears can clean up the carcass' OR they could poison the pony carcass and kill two birds with one stone.

No. Not "exactly" at all. You completely missed the point. Wasn't suggesting that in any way, so please don't put words in my mouth. And FYI, killing "all of them" is not a cull. That would be an eradication.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by gopher

I flew over B.C this winter and I have couch plus google so I must be an expert on Pine Beatle.

did you bother to read? capable of it?

I clearly provided the info sheep requested and stated without reservations that my opinion was not formed by those experiences.

Feral horses impact their habitat.

That is a fact, and it is good enough for me to believe that we don't need them in the east slope ecosystems.

If we can support a sufficient tourist industry by allowing them to persist, I would support a small and well managed population.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by new LT

Why does this sound like a Jim.Hanna rerun........

speaking of culls and reruns

how is it you guys can get banned, get a new username, and keep on keepin on?

might as well be honest and use your original username.

no one likes a phoney.

[gopher]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

did you bother to read? capable of it?

I clearly provided the info sheep requested and stated without reservations that my opinion was not formed by those experiences.

Feral horses impact their habitat.

That is a fact, and it is good enough for me to believe that we don't need them in the east slope ecosystems.

If we can support a sufficient tourist industry by allowing them to persist, I would support a small and well managed population.

I am surprised you even care seeing as how this topic is outdoor related and definitely anything you have an opinion on is stright from the couch. Looking forward to the chopper pics from 10 years ago with you nice and safe looking out the window.

[avb3]

Originally Posted by gopher

I am surprised you even care seeing as how this topic is outdoor related and definitely anything you have an opinion on is stright from the couch. Looking forward to the chopper pics from 10 years ago with you nice and safe looking out the window.

Gee with an attitude like that, it surprised that you would support fishing wildlife doing aerial surveys on ungulate populations.

I mean what could they possibly learn by flying over those critters and that landscape.

[pickrel pat]

Im sorry I ever started this thread. Mods please lock down this thread. Its just a repeat of an old thread. (still waiting for the pics of carnage and rampant destruction of land)..

[new LT]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

did you bother to read? capable of it?

I clearly provided the info sheep requested and stated without reservations that my opinion was not formed by those experiences.

Feral horses impact their habitat.

That is a fact, and it is good enough for me to believe that we don't need them in the east slope ecosystems.

If we can support a sufficient tourist industry by allowing them to persist, I would support a small and well managed population.

If your only reasoning behind your statement is the fact that they impact their habitat,then you are standing on a slippery slope sir nothing has impacted its habitat as much as man.........May we start culling with you..

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

speaking of culls and reruns

how is it you guys can get banned, get a new username, and keep on keepin on?

might as well be honest and use your original username.

no one likes a phoney.

This is your third time bringing this up, and as with most of your post it has no fact or proof to back it up.

you are right no one likes a phony but yet you are still here trying to persuade people that you a some type of An entomologist.


back to the horses I do believe with sheepguides statement that opening a season or draw tags on wild horses would definitely be the worst thing for hunter. There are a lot of non hunters that are at this time not supporting hunters or anti-hunters,that would change drastically will the hunting of wild horses. bdub's statement "The idiots will get over it sooner or later IMO."
is just exactly what the anti's need to help swing some of these people. If you think this forum and others like it are not monitored by anti gun,anti hunting, groups then i think the handle "idiot" is being placed on the wrong person. statements like this just gives them fuel for their fire.

[Donkey Oatey]

I've said it before I'll say it again. Treat those horses the same as the horses at CFB Suffield. Round em up, anyone that wants can buy one if not off to Ft. MacLeod to be packaged for sale.

Sure there was an uproar about Suffield horses, lasted about a month and never heard from again really.

Horses built society in North America, I get that. Horses are a useful tool, I get that too. What I don't get is why a livestock animal that is a useful tool is being left to procreate uncontrollably out in the wild.

To me horses have a place, and that place is behind a fence.

[rhuntley12]

At the very least there should be something implemented like this here.
http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/eagle...aksgather.html
While both sides argue and nothing happens they should start rounding them up and adopting them out.

If nothing else atleast some nice picturese in this thread.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Calling me out eh?

I worked in the ya ha area 10 years ago. Stayed at the mountain aire resort. Hell I was familiar with the accused crack head who worked there and he claimed to have built their big Quonset style hut.

I've shot gunned beers over the old rock crusher bell they had for a fire pit and pulled a few little fish out of the river nearby.

At one point I had seen a lot of that territory and many of te specifics are lost to memory, but we went down damn near every road west of sundre to the mountains and burnt timber area.

Did a few weeks of heli work which must have been getting close to ghost/waiporous area all the way back up to the resort and a fair ways nw of it as well.

Are you familiar with the brook trout cull program?
Specific waters, no limits. Kill'm all.

My working experience and having visited the backcountry where these feral animals reside and having viewed them and encountered them in varied situations isn't what informs my opinion however.

I've got some pics of the heli work and horses somewhere. I'll see if I can dig it up. Then we can take comfort in having ****ed an equal distance wrt useless images which really contribute nothing of scientific value.

Feral horses?

Round'm up!

Had nothing to do with calling you out! Just wanted to see where the destruction you had witnessed was.
The area around the Mountain Air has a good number of horses for sure. But I'm still not knowing where you see the destruction?
I guided trail rides For Duane Papke in the mid to late 90's just up the Panther Road for many years traveling pretty much every inch from the North Burnt, Wigwam Creek, Sheep Creek, Panther, Dormer, Dog Rib, Ribbons, over to and up the Red Deer, Wild Horse and all areas inbetween and areas extending out to the Trunk road daily of that area as well as helping Duane when he had his capture permit. And in the falls I guiding elk hunters on the upper Wilson and lower Wilson, Upper James to James pass, Bread Creek and all through the Williams Creek area and resident hunters on the Panther and Red Deer all via horses. This doesn't include the country covered by personal family trips and hunting endevours.

Then on top of that Drilling on Nabors Drilling rig 49(old rig 89) and Nabors 45(old rig 21) for many years on the Panther/Sheep creek and North/South Burnt Timber for Shell then Suncor. With our camp being on the Panther River road for a few years straight. As well as drilling an additional couple years through the James/Wilson area and Limestone for Shell. Traveling to and from the rigs home every couple days Via the trunk road and/or the Coal Camp road to my place at the time west of Caroline.
Spent many an evening in the Mountain Aire pre Mustard Seed ownership back when the Big Former Cop(forget his name now) owned and ran it. Then seeing it switch hands a couple times to the point where the Mustard Seed were running it.
And through all my limited travels in the area I have yet to see the damage you all claim to see in a few flights in a helicopter? That is why I asked where you seen the horses as it may have been in an area I don't know.