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Old 08-03-2016, 08:19 PM
Crankbait Crankbait is offline
 
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Default the third party that may disrupt things stateside

Libertarian ticket could spoil Clinton party

By Matt Zwolinski

Updated 9:21 PM ET, Wed August 3, 2016
What Libertarian Gary Johnson Believes in 2 minutes
01:20

Romney not ruling out voting for Libertarian candidate 

Libertarian candidates Johnson, Weld seek middle ground_00015815.jpg
Gary Johnson wins Libertarian presidential nomination 
Libertarian candidates give first joint interview 
Libertarian candidate gets 1% of votes 
Story highlights
Matt Zwolinski: Libertarian Party ticket's liberal social views could appeal to Democrats who supported Sanders Libertarians have historically supported equality and even a social safety net

Editor's Note: Matt Zwolinski is professor of philosophy at the University of San Diego, a co-director of USD's Institute for Law and Philosophy, and the founder of the Bleeding Heart Libertarians blog. The views expressed are his own.

(CNN) — CNN is hosting Gary Johnson and Bill Weld in a Libertarian town hall on Wednesday at 9 p.m. ET.

With national polling numbers hovering around 12%, the Libertarian ticket of Gary Johnson and William Weld has the potential to be a real spoiler in the presidential election. But whose candidacy are they most likely to spoil?

Most people think of libertarianism as a kind of right-wing ideology, with its intellectual origins in the free-market economics of Milton Friedman and the unabashed egoism and anti-communism of Ayn Rand. And it's certainly true that for most of its existence, the Libertarian Party has drawn more heavily from the political right than from the political left.

But Gary Johnson is actually drawing just as much support from self-identified Democrats as he does from Republicans. And polls that include Johnson actually show a slight decrease in Clinton's lead over Trump.

On the surface, this might seem surprising. Johnson does, after all, advocate eliminating payroll taxes and capital gains taxes, and dramatically reducing government regulation of the economy -- all positions that sit much better with right-leaning conservatives than with political progressives.

But a deeper understanding of Johnson's Libertarian ideas, and the history of how those ideas have evolved over time, make Johnson's appeal to Clinton voters clearer.

Why I'm running for president

Related Article: Gary Johnson: Why I'm running for president

First, libertarianism is more than just an economic ideology. It's a social one. And many Libertarian social positions -- an openness to immigration, an embrace of equal rights for gay, lesbian, and transgender persons, a hostility toward the war on drugs and American militarism abroad, and support for women's reproductive rights -- are arguably more progressive than the average Democrat. Libertarians were supporting marriage equality and marijuana legalization, for instance, long before any mainstream politician -- Clinton included -- would touch those issues.

Second, even on strictly economic issues, Libertarians have a lot to say that should appeal to those on the left. Libertarians have long been sharply critical, for instance, of the ways regulations such as occupational licensing requirements are used to protect the economically powerful at the expense of the poor and marginalized. They've fought against subsidies, bailouts, and other forms of "crony capitalism" that benefit the few at the expense of the masses. And -- contrary to popular perception -- Libertarians have often argued in favor of a well-designed social safety net to protect those who fail to benefit from the economic dynamism of a free economy. Both Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek, for instance, supported what many regard as a radically progressive policy -- a basic income guarantee. And Gary Johnson has suggested that he is open to the idea as well.

If this story is unfamiliar, that's because for most of the 20th century, Libertarians were enmeshed in a kind of tacit alliance with political conservatives, united by their common opposition to the perceived threat of international communism. That threat pushed the social liberalism that Libertarians developed in their 19th century struggles against racism, imperialism and slavery to the background, and led them to resist, on economic issues, taking a single step down any road that remotely resembled the way toward socialism.

With the fall of international communism and the discrediting of socialist economics, however, Libertarians are slowly starting to return to their progressive roots. And the Johnson campaign is probably the most progressive-friendly Libertarian ticket in recent decades. No doubt many moderate conservatives who cannot bring themselves to support Trump will turn to Johnson as a show of protest, if nothing more. But it would not be surprising if Johnson's strongest support came from the legions of progressives who were moved by Bernie Sanders' radical critique of American military and economic policy. In many ways, that progressive sentiment will find a much more natural home in Johnson's libertarianism than in the Democratic candidacy of Hillary Clinton.

for the interview
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/opinio...ion-zwolinski/
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:39 PM
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Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
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I doubt it will disrupt much. Libertarians will only be a parking spot for a few Republican's that can't stomach Trump. Sanders fans are the antithesis of libertarians. Socialists suddenly voting for no government? NO CHANCE of winning, in my uninformed opinion.
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:00 PM
Crankbait Crankbait is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
I doubt it will disrupt much. Libertarians will only be a parking spot for a few Republican's that can't stomach Trump. Sanders fans are the antithesis of libertarians. Socialists suddenly voting for no government? NO CHANCE of winning, in my uninformed opinion.
strong is the hate in this election, anything goes it seems.

good to see mainstream media having a one hour live interview at prime time with their nominee. and, I guess all parties evolve, I mean how long can the republican party go about their day-to-day appearing like G-men from 1950's era b-films.
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:08 PM
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Okotokian Okotokian is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Crankbait View Post
strong is the hate in this election, anything goes it seems.

good to see mainstream media having a one hour live interview at prime time with their nominee. and, I guess all parties evolve, I mean how long can the republican party go about their day-to-day appearing like G-men from 1950's era b-films.
LOL Hey, who would have predicted an NDP government in Alberta two years ago....
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:15 PM
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Can you smell what the Rock is cookin?
http://youtu.be/a7jAieAn5GE
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Talking moose View Post
Can you smell what the Rock is cookin?
http://youtu.be/a7jAieAn5GE
LOL me thinks 99.9% of WWE fans are Trumpers. The .1% think he's too soft.
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:25 PM
Crankbait Crankbait is offline
 
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it's a really good a well timed chess move on the libertarians part; will those now ditching trump go to clinton, or those dumping clinton go to trump? there are headsintheSanders who might like some of the new libertarian viewpoints and a few sourTrumpeters who stuck around with trump but now wanting to ditch him but not sure where to turn. which in turn throws a rook into both campaigns while they're both waning.

hope that makes sense?

wait, here's another analogy; in a tight race, nobody wants to trip on the gimp before the finish line.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:01 PM
Crankbait Crankbait is offline
 
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a repeat of the interview is on cnn right now.
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Old 08-04-2016, 06:44 PM
schmedlap schmedlap is offline
 
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Default If I were a US voter

Johnson and Weld would get my vote, especially in the face of the 2 distasteful current main contenders. Now, I am a libertarian conservative, so for me it is pretty easy.

But, both these guys are impressive persons, of apparent personal integrity, who had excellent fiscal records as state governors (well, unless you are a trough-sucking leftard, in which case you would say they were dreadful?), and the libertarian party has never had anything near this level of strong, experienced, credible candidates. They are at about 12-13% in the polls which include all alternatives. There is a unique situation where the common distaste for both main party candidates, and both main parties, is huge. And if they get to 15% in the polls (just my info on the rules?) they will have to be let in to the official televised debates (like Ross Perot was some decades back).

Unfortunately, of course, they do not and likely will not have anywhere near the $ of the main party candidates for campaigning, due partly to the very corrupt US political finance rules, and the party establishment control of major donors. But, we have already seen how "anything can happen" in respect to the Trump candidacy, in the current chaotic milieu.

I do not agree with their platform in some areas, but I find way more common ground, and way less personal distaste for the people, than I find in the main party platforms and candidates. So ... one can only hope that at least teir voices do get reasonable exposure. I would be way happier to see President Johnson, and VP Weld, than the current alternatives.
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