selling firearms

[Rio56]

on here .. have a buddy asking me to help sell some of his guns .. Question , do you actually need a copy of the PAL , do you even ask to see it or just take number .. How do you handle mail guns and or pick up .

[skidderman]

I get the number and expiry date. Thats all.

[YoungGun96]

It's always a good idea to validate the other persons pal. You need full name, date of birth and pal number. Call it in, if it passes you are good to go. As for mailing, I ship Canada post always. Ship in a blank box and or wrap a gun box in brown paper. You just can't leaf ally ship ammo or powder via Canada post. Those must go through a courier.

[dewalt18]

I'm not 100%, as I have little to no interest in selling, but I believe the law states that if you have reason to doubt that they have it, you should request to see it. But I was wrong that one other time. . .

[waterhaulerhunter]

With all the scamming that goes on, unless someone has a very good trader rating with several transactions I do not and will not give them a pic or even tell them my pal number. They do not need it. All you need is to tell them you have it. It's up to them to decide whether they believe you or not.

[Twist]

Originally Posted by waterhaulerhunter

with all the scamming that goes on, unless someone has a very good trader rating with several transactions i do not and will not give them a pic or even tell them my pal number. They do not need it. All you need is to tell them you have it. It's up to them to decide whether they believe you or not.

👍

[Dead Mule]

Originally Posted by waterhaulerhunter

With all the scamming that goes on, unless someone has a very good trader rating with several transactions I do not and will not give them a pic or even tell them my pal number. They do not need it. All you need is to tell them you have it. It's up to them to decide whether they believe you or not.

That works both ways, doesn't it?

With all of the scamming going on, why would you believe someone that just says that they have a valid PAL but won't let you see it and write down the information on the receipt?

I would not sell a long gun to anyone without proper records, including PAL number, name, expiry date, etc.

Should that long gun turn up illegally somewhere, and was traced back to you, you would need to demonstrate due diligence in the sale, and to prove that you disposed of it legally.

[catnthehat]

Never had an issue selling or buying firearms online , but I know one person who has been ripped off by a guy that I bought two rifles from with no issues !
Cat

[waterhaulerhunter]

If someone buys a gun from a lies and says they have a pal and they don't, that's their problem not mine. I'm not getting in trouble for being in possession of a firearm without a license. That gun cannot and will not be traced back to me because there is no long gun registry.

[Darkimag22]

I bought a rifle from a fellow on this website...as well as my scope from another. Everything went perfectly, both items arrived exactly as shown in pictures provided, too. Not saying that you can trust everyone...but I haven't had a bad experience yet and I have purchased many things online.

[Pioneer2]

Cover your butt it can go either way.Harold

[DiabeticKripple]

i wont sell a gun on here without checking a pal. unless we meet in person.

[Dead Mule]

Originally Posted by waterhaulerhunter

If someone buys a gun from a lies and says they have a pal and they don't, that's their problem not mine. I'm not getting in trouble for being in possession of a firearm without a license. That gun cannot and will not be traced back to me because there is no long gun registry.

This works if no registration exists to tie you to the gun, and no other records exist.

But, if you bought it new from a dealer, then importation records exist for that specific gun and serial number. In effect, it's registered all the way to the dealer.

When the dealer sells it, you sign the obligatory ledger book, creating a local record of sale. The dealer also stores the bill of sale, and the larger dealers probably download all of the information into computer files for easy reference.

So, the original purchaser is fairly easy to identify.

If you sell the gun to someone, without PAL and identification, then you remain the last identifiable owner.

Should the gun turn up in a crime, or in the hands of an unlicensed owner, even years later, police will end up contacting you.

While you may not be blamed for what happened after you sold it, you are still responsible to prove that you delivered it to an identifiable person who held a valid PAL at the time of the sale.

Saying that the person who bought it from you must have lied when he said that he did have a valid PAL, when he did not, won't excuse you, nor will saying that you did not keep the records of the sale.

That merely proves that you were negligent in failing to obtain and keep proof that the purchaser was licensed to possess firearms, which means that you committed a crime, since you can't prove otherwise.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Dead Mule

This works if no registration exists to tie you to the gun, and no other records exist.

But, if you bought it new from a dealer, then importation records exist for that specific gun and serial number. In effect, it's registered all the way to the dealer.

When the dealer sells it, you sign the obligatory ledger book, creating a local record of sale. The dealer also stores the bill of sale, and the larger dealers probably download all of the information into computer files for easy reference.

So, the original purchaser is fairly easy to identify.

If you sell the gun to someone, without PAL and identification, then you remain the last identifiable owner.

Should the gun turn up in a crime, or in the hands of an unlicensed owner, even years later, police will end up contacting you.

While you may not be blamed for what happened after you sold it, you are still responsible to prove that you delivered it to an identifiable person who held a valid PAL at the time of the sale.

Saying that the person who bought it from you must have lied when he said that he did have a valid PAL, when he did not, won't excuse you, nor will saying that you did not keep the records of the sale.

That merely proves that you were negligent in failing to obtain and keep proof that the purchaser was licensed to possess firearms, which means that you committed a crime, since you can't prove otherwise.

The burden of proof is on the crown if they wish to charge you. You don't have to prove you didn't commit a crime....this is Canada.

[Dead Mule]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

The burden of proof is on the crown if they wish to charge you. You don't have to prove you didn't commit a crime....this is Canada.

I think that this is naive.

You ARE required by law to deliver a firearm only to a valid PAL holder.

If you can't prove this in some way, if challenged by police, then do you really believe that they are simply going to walk away without charging you?

This is Canada after all, and we all know how unjust firearms enforcement can be.

You might be able to convince a judge that the Crown can not convict you without proof that you actually did deliver the gun to someone unlicensed, and since they can't, you are innocent.

By then, however, how many thousands of dollars in legal expenses are you out of pocket for?

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

The burden of proof is on the crown if they wish to charge you. You don't have to prove you didn't commit a crime....this is Canada.

I agree 100%. the only problem is when "they" decide to amend legislation because some people think you should be able to prove you didn't commit a crime, or prove that you can't commit a crime before a crime has even been committed.

[Dead Mule]

Originally Posted by Purple Farmer

I agree 100%. the only problem is when "they" decide to amend legislation because some people think you should be able to prove you didn't commit a crime, or prove that you can't commit a crime before a crime has even been committed.

Your mileage may vary as they say.

I do know that I would never risk selling a gun to someone if it could be traced back to me as the original owner, without knowing that that person did have a valid PAL., and without keeping a record of that sale.

If this isn't an issue as you appear to be saying, then why are Gun Shops so careful on this issue?

Why don't they simply "take your word for it" if the police won't charge them with a crime for not verifying a valid PAL for the purchaser?

Whether a dealer or private seller, you have the same obligations to verify that the purchaser has a valid PAL.

[sailor]

Have bought and sold lots of guns online.Never had buyer that wouldn't require proof of valid pal.Same selling myself never had buyer that refused to show his pal.Usually I send a picture of pal to seller and if I sell buyer sends picture of his pal.Never buy guns without speaking with seller on the phone.
A bit different scenario with restricted.
Buying restricted I only give next info:
Name,address,my phone number which in CFO database and only RPAL number.
Never give your birthday info-seller doesn't need to know this info because knowing all above mentioned info and your place of birth some scammers could open or access your firearm account on RCMP site.

[Dead Mule]

Originally Posted by sailor

Have bought and sold lots of guns online.Never had buyer that wouldn't require proof of valid pal.Same selling myself never had buyer that refused to show his pal.Usually I send a picture of pal to seller and if I sell buyer sends picture of his pal.Never buy guns without speaking with seller on the phone.
A bit different scenario with restricted.
Buying restricted I only give next info:
Name,address,my phone number which in CFO database and only RPAL number.
Never give your birthday info-seller doesn't need to know this info because knowing all above mentioned info and your place of birth some scammers could open or access your firearm account on RCMP site.

Good information about the RPAL.

Do you have more information about firearms accounts?

[sailor]

Originally Posted by Dead Mule

Good information about the RPAL.

Do you have more information about firearms accounts?

Sorry I meant log in to your account to renew your pal (rpal),change address and so on.Also that info is what CFO asking you to verify your identity when initiating or completing transfer of restricted firearms-so some scam artists could call cfo and actually sell your firearms without you even knowing about it (well they also would need to know the model and serial number of course )
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by Dead Mule

Your mileage may vary as they say.

I do know that I would never risk selling a gun to someone if it could be traced back to me as the original owner, without knowing that that person did have a valid PAL., and without keeping a record of that sale.

If this isn't an issue as you appear to be saying, then why are Gun Shops so careful on this issue?

Why don't they simply "take your word for it" if the police won't charge them with a crime for not verifying a valid PAL for the purchaser?

Whether a dealer or private seller, you have the same obligations to verify that the purchaser has a valid PAL.

What have you used the gun for that you would be worried in it being traced back to you?
What Gunshop issue are you referencing and which gunshop?

[CaberTosser]

Originally Posted by YoungGun96

It's always a good idea to validate the other persons pal. You need full name, date of birth and pal number. Call it in, if it passes you are good to go. As for mailing, I ship Canada post always. Ship in a blank box and or wrap a gun box in brown paper. You just can't leaf ally ship ammo or powder via Canada post. Those must go through a courier.

DO NOT follow this guys advice!!!

Nobody needs your birth date for any reason. This character even suggesting it combines with his low post count and recent join date makes me think bad things about him. Your birth date is your business, it's not needed for firearm transactions, never has been.

[Purple Farmer]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

DO NOT follow this guys advice!!!

Nobody needs your birth date for any reason. This character even suggesting it combines with his low post count and recent join date makes me think bad things about him. Your birth date is your business, it's not needed for firearm transactions, never has been.

Listen to Caber, I'm shocked that fella isn't asking for SIN aswell.

[30Cal]

Transfers of non-restricted firearms can be conducted without contacting the CFP, as registration is no longer required for this class of firearm. The transferor is nevertheless required to verify that the transferee has a valid PAL. The transferor can call the CFP toll-free number (1-800-731-4000) to confirm the validity of the transferee's licence before making a sale.

Transfers of restricted firearms by telephone can be carried out by calling the CFP and selecting the transfer option from the menu of services. Callers should have the following information ready when they call:

•Their full name, address and firearms licence number, if they are an individual transferor;

•Their business licence and identification number, if they are a business transferor;

•Their PAL number, name and address, if they are an individual transferee;

•Their business licence and identification number, if they are a business
transferee;

•The registration certificate number and firearms identification number for the restricted firearm.

The person who initiates the transfer will be given a reference number, which must be transmitted to the other party for them to reference when they call. The CFP must speak with both parties to positively identify them before the transfer can be approved. A business may, however, identify the buyer or seller involved in the transfer.

Transfers of restricted firearms are sent to the CFO for the jurisdiction, who will review the transfer, to ensure that the transferee is acquiring the firearm for one of the permitted purposes set out in section 28 of the Firearms Act. In addition, the transferee will need to obtain an ATT to transport the firearm to its new location.

For telephone transfers of prohibited firearms, please call the CFP.

Both parties will receive a confirmation notice to advise them of the completion of the transfer, and the registration certificate will be mailed to the new owner within a few weeks.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/f...vendre-eng.htm