Bear spray topic

[DustDee]

Originally Posted by CaberTosser

Once it has expired you can use it as Visene or contacts lens saline solution!

Thanks Tipps!!

I'll have to give that one a try...

[Nester]

For some reason whenever someone mentions always carrying a gun when out in the woods vice using bear spray, I think that they should be the one's following there own advice of staying home.

[6.5swedeforelk]

Originally Posted by mtngiant

I have never had or used bear spray but seems like it's hi-time I got some.

Are there better sprays than others?

What would you recommend and have you ever needed to use it?

MtnGiant... I'm fairly new to AO forum, but, reading some of your previous posts I would suggest that you put your hands on hips, turn on that charging grizzly and stare her down!
When she realizes her error & turns tail & runs, don't be a meany and start kicking the cubs!

[Nait Hadya]

Originally Posted by 6.5swedeforelk

MtnGiant... I'm fairly new to AO forum, but, reading some of your previous posts I would suggest that you put your hands on hips, turn on that charging grizzly and stare her down!
When she realizes her error & turns tail & runs, don't be a meany and start kicking the cubs!

Or you could just forget the spray and shot her right between the eyes at twenty feet, they can raise up the cubs to be released later.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

I don't need spray or a gun I just have to run faster than you.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Bearspray may indeed be ten times more powerful than "pepper spray". But pepper spray is a prohibited weapon in Canada, hence there is no "legal limit" here for it. The limit for bear spray in canada is 1%.

Bearspray and "dog attack deterrent" is pepper spray. The dog attack stuff is .5% and the bear stuff is 1%. It is not prohibited at all, only prohibited to be carried with the intent to use on humans, other than used by approved peace officers. Otherwise it is to be labeled "for animal repellant".

If you are attacked by a cougar, you can use whatever spray you have.

[marxman]

just checked my bear sprays one is .75%capsaicin the other 1 % capsaicin and 10% oleoresin capsicum i dont know if this oleoresin capsicum is bad stuff but its listed as an active ingredient. this spray expired in 2002 the other one 2006 maybe time to get new spray i get it free anyway

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Bearspray and "dog attack deterrent" is pepper spray. The dog attack stuff is .5% and the bear stuff is 1%. It is not prohibited at all, only prohibited to be carried with the intent to use on humans, other than used by approved peace officers. Otherwise it is to be labeled "for animal repellant".

If you are attacked by a cougar, you can use whatever spray you have.

It is prohibited but yeah, it's murky as the factor of intended use comes into play (where it doesn't for the firearms listed as prohibited). From one of the criminal code regulations pertaining to weapons:
PROHIBITED WEAPONS

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 1

• 1. Any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person by the discharge therefrom of
  • (a) tear gas, Mace or other gas, or
  • (b) any liquid, spray, powder or other substance that is capable of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person.

The clear exemption comes from through the Pest Control Products Act. The cans I have seen and used are all labelled bear repellent. Do you have ones that are simply labelled "animal repellent"? I haven't come across manufacturers that are that loose, witness the Q&A I posted.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

It is prohibited but yeah, it's murky as the factor of intended use comes into play (where it doesn't for the firearms listed as prohibited). From one of the criminal code regulations pertaining to weapons:
PROHIBITED WEAPONS

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 1

• 1. Any device designed to be used for the purpose of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person by the discharge therefrom of
  • (a) tear gas, Mace or other gas, or
  • (b) any liquid, spray, powder or other substance that is capable of injuring, immobilizing or otherwise incapacitating any person.

The clear exemption comes from through the Pest Control Products Act. The cans I have seen and used are all labelled bear repellent. Do you have ones that are simply labelled "animal repellent"? I haven't come across manufacturers that are that loose, witness the Q&A I posted.

I highlighted the pertinent part of the phrase; it is marketed in Canada as bear or dog repellant (yes they qualify as animals).

That it happens to work on humans is just a happy coincidence if you happened to run into a mob, wielding torches, pitchforks and bad intentions.

That a good deal of us have this lying around the house is proof positive that it's not prohibited. (Look up the ingredients; same stuff.)

BTW, it is also prohibited to carry a retractable baton for human protection, although it may be carried openly (I believe it's not supposed to be concealed) for protection against dogs.

This is the case for many things in Canada, in particular firearms. Not for human protection, although if your life is in danger you can use any means at your disposal.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by Nester

For some reason whenever someone mentions always carrying a gun when out in the woods vice using bear spray, I think that they should be the one's following there own advice of staying home.

You have obviously never fished salmon on the Bulkley or Kispiox river up in Northern B.C.I always packed a 12 gauge Defender.Bear spray is for city folk.12 gauge pump is for when you are fishing off a sandbar covered in half eaten salmon and grizz tracks.

[Fisherpeak]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

I highlighted the pertinent part of the phrase; it is marketed in Canada as bear or dog repellant (yes they qualify as animals).

That it happens to work on humans is just a happy coincidence if you happened to run into a mob, wielding torches, pitchforks and bad intentions.

That a good deal of us have this lying around the house is proof positive that it's not prohibited. (Look up the ingredients; same stuff.)

BTW, it is also prohibited to carry a retractable baton for human protection, although it may be carried openly (I believe it's not supposed to be concealed) for protection against dogs.

This is the case for many things in Canada, in particular firearms. Not for human protection, although if your life is in danger you can use any means at your disposal.

I have a sword cane,I guess that`s illegal too eh?

[recce43]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

You have obviously never fished salmon on the Bulkley or Kispiox river up in Northern B.C.I always packed a 12 gauge Defender.Bear spray is for city folk.12 gauge pump is for when you are fishing off a sandbar covered in half eaten salmon and grizz tracks.

do you think you can react quick enough to load aim and fire to be able to hit a moving target that is charging at you ? do you have the training to do this ? your heart is pumping , your adrenaline is going . your shotgun was slinged across your back when you where fishing .. But the bear spary was attached to your belt in its holster that it can be used from with out taking it out. and it spray pattern is wider more effective... in the military we are trained and trained to be able to react to hi stress situation are you?

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by recce43

do you think you can react quick enough to load aim and fire to be able to hit a moving target that is charging at you ? do you have the training to do this ? your heart is pumping , your adrenaline is going . your shotgun was slinged across your back when you where fishing .. But the bear spary was attached to your belt in its holster that it can be used from with out taking it out. and it spray pattern is wider more effective... in the military we are trained and trained to be able to react to hi stress situation are you?

When you are right... you are right.

[Scott N]

Originally Posted by Fisherpeak

You have obviously never fished salmon on the Bulkley or Kispiox river up in Northern B.C.I always packed a 12 gauge Defender.Bear spray is for city folk.12 gauge pump is for when you are fishing off a sandbar covered in half eaten salmon and grizz tracks.

We fished Bella Coola, which if I'm not mistaken, has one of the highest concentrations of grizzlies in Canada. My buddy that I fished with is BC F&W, and we never felt like a firearm was necessary. "City folk" is a pretty big brush to paint someone with.

[recce43]

Originally Posted by recce43

do you think you can react quick enough to load aim and fire to be able to hit a moving target that is charging at you ? do you have the training to do this ? your heart is pumping , your adrenaline is going . your shotgun was slinged across your back when you where fishing .. But the bear spary was attached to your belt in its holster that it can be used from with out taking it out. and it spray pattern is wider more effective... in the military we are trained and trained to be able to react to hi stress situation are you?

and by the way i carry bear spray i guess im one of those city folks then lol

[wwbirds]

Canada and the US have determined more injury to shooter is likely with bullets than when using bear spray. There was an additional Canadian study on polar bears which I can no longer find that also had the same or similar results. You may kill the bear with a bullet slug or buckshot but chances are good he is going to really mess you up or kill you before he dies.

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/...ar%20spray.pdf

[IronJackWhitton]

Different situations call for different tools.

For instance, knowing that bear spray is an irritant to mucus membranes and respiratory systems, and that it's cloud effect has been proven incredibly effective against charging bears, I have no doubt that most of the time bear spray works very well. A summary from work a UofC researcher did:

"Ninety-eight percent of those who used bear spray walked away from their encounter unharmed, and none of the people or bears involved died. With firearms, 56 percent of the users were subsequently injured, and 61 percent of the bears died."

There are quite a few studies out there that support Spray's effectiveness as a tool. The question is when do you use that tool?

If I'm going for a hike, bear spray is on my hip. There are several reasons for this:

Bear attacks happen fast -- VERY fast -- so for a shotgun or other type of firearm to be effective, you need to be able to draw, load, and shoot faster than a bear can be on you (which can come at you at 50 km/hr +). Or, the average person would need to be walking through the bush with a loaded shotgun/rifle already in hand cocked and ready to go. Why? Because most bears avoid humans and only attack in 2 situations -- defending something (babies, a kill) or they are surprised. In order for a bear to be surprised to the point it feels the need to attack as opposed to going away, you need to be close. Same as for the need to defend. We are talking tens of feet, not hundreds of meters. Grizzlies can move at about 55 km/hr; even a very conservative 40 km/hr means that bear is charging you at 11 meters per second -- or, expressed another way, for every "click" of the second hand on your watch, that bear is covering 33 feet. So if you surprise a bear who is 60 feet away, you have 2 seconds to draw, cock, aim, fire -- Not likely to happen unless you are extremely skilled with a gun, and even then, you better be able to hit a moving target whilst browning your trousers on the first shot.

Spray on the other hand is very fast to deploy -- even it is not foolproof but in the process of draw-cock-aim-fire, you've cut out two of those steps: You really just draw and fire. There is a safety tab that slips off as you draw -- in some cases too easily, as the "Fire Hoop" story will attest! -- and because spray works in a huge cloud as long as you've got the direction right you don't really need to aim. The cloud hangs in the air and the bear runs into it. It's much faster and far more reflexive.

So that covers hiking. But what about spray in camp?

A bear in a Camp isn't a surprised bear, nor is it a defending bear -- it's a bear that is scavenging food because of good smells. That behaviour is very different -- its usually a lot less aggressive, for starters. Secondly, it's moseying around checking things out -- not charging at 50 km/hour. That means you will be a bit farther away.

I've never had an in-camp bear with my dog around (which is a good lesson -- neither spray nor a gun keeps the feet warm on the end of the sleeping bag, so maybe just get a dog!), and before her, never had one that I couldn't scare off with a few shouts and bangings of pans.

Spray as I said irritates mucus membranes -- it works on the same principle as if you squirt a shot of tabasco sauce in your eye. Go try it now, I'll wait.

And like Tabasco, a little bit not only smells good but tastes good too. In camp, spray is not a good tool -- you'll also be coating ALL of your gear and your site in an aromatic and tasty treat. So even if you scare Bear 1 away, whose to say bear 2 isn't a fan of spicy foods -- you'd have to replace/wash your gear as necessary, move sites, etc.

Additionally, Spray only has an effective range of 2-3 meters, and it has to get the bear in the face. The behaviour of the camp-scavenging bear is typically different enough to make it difficult to get close and hit the face. Do you and your hunting party want to draw straws to see who gets to approach the scavenging Grizz's face with your mighty one-shot-only Aerosol can?

In a camp, a gun is usually a better tool, especially as a 12-gauge can be discharged or loaded with bangers; the noise is often enough to scare off all but the most determined/hungry bear. And if the bear is spooked into attacking, or isn't spooked into running, you can easily and quickly chamber a second round for more intimate bear diplomacy as the firearm is already in your hands thus cutting down the draw-load-aim-fire by 2 steps.

I should mention that there may be issues with carrying a gun in the bush in terms of legality of carrying a firearm. In some jurisdictions the burden of proof is on the gun-carrier to prove they are not hunting (as opposed to the CO proving that you are). So if you do not have a hunting license but do have a firearm in the bush, you may find yourself in hot water.

In conclusion -- bring the tool that will be most suitable for your situation.

Edit - Wow this got WAY longer then intended.

TLDR - Bear Spray for hiking. Gun for in camp, USUALLY. Bring the right tool for the job.

[Scott N]

Good post IronJack!

[antlercarver]

When bears have issues with each other there is a lot of loud
roars to intimidate the other, similar to how a gun shot may
scare them off. Since bear spray and air horns are both
pressurized cans, why not combine them both in one can.
It may also alert other people that you are having a problem.
Some one should be selling the loud bear spray, it would
certainly out sell the type available now.

[Nick McQuick]

we cant use bear spray on cougars? what are we suppose to ask them nicely?

[IronJackWhitton]

Good post IronJack!

Thank you sir!

When bears have issues with each other there is a lot of loud
roars to intimidate the other, similar to how a gun shot may
scare them off. Since bear spray and air horns are both
pressurized cans, why not combine them both in one can.
It may also alert other people that you are having a problem.
Some one should be selling the loud bear spray, it would
certainly out sell the type available now.

Don't post stuff like that on the internet -- patent it and sell it! That's a great idea. I don't know if it would work (it may interfere with the spray pattern by forcing the compressed gasses to go through a noise maker) but the idea seems sound.

we cant use bear spray on cougars? what are we suppose to ask them nicely?

They usually ask YOU nicely, if they can buy you a drink, then they lie about their age, and a few drinks in you start thinking you are hot stuff...wait....

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Scott N

We fished Bella Coola, which if I'm not mistaken, has one of the highest concentrations of grizzlies in Canada. My buddy that I fished with is BC F&W, and we never felt like a firearm was necessary. "City folk" is a pretty big brush to paint someone with.

Thats ok... I think he was talking about himself and got it backwards.
I grew up in that town and trust me... just about everyone living there since the mine packed it in is from the city... TO , Calgary, Edmonton.

The folks that have occupied that place for generations... don't pack a gun every time they go fishing, trust spring ice on St Marys Lake or shoot red squirrels for raiding bird feeders.

But they sure get some entertainment out of those that do...

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

The law the regulates bear spray is the Pest Control Products act. Here are some selected Q&A's from a manufacturers website:

Q - Are these products legal in Canada?
A - Yes, these products are legal in Canada. It is important to note that similar products that are imported or smuggled into Canada from the USA, China, etc. are illegal. Importing or selling them (law enforcement excluded) in Canada can result in Canada Customs seizures and penalties for both the shipper and receiver. Canadian Sabre brand dog and bear pepper sprays have legal Health Canada approved formulations and containers, a valid Health Canada PCP Act registration number and the percentage of Capsaicin guarantee printed on their French/English labels. They are legal for citizen use in Canada for protection from injury or death by dog or bear attack.

Q – Will these products work on cougars?
A – They have the same effect on all mammals, but they are only approved in Canada for use against attacking bears.

Q - Will these products keep away gophers?
A - There have been reports that these products will keep away pests such as gophers, moles, voles, rabbits, deer, etc., but they are only approved in Canada for use against attacking bears.

Q – Can I apply bear spray to my skin and clothing just like insect repellent?
A – It is only designed to be used to spray attacking bears. Instructions are on the label.

When I read the bold, I interpret it as you can use it on cougars, but if its doesn't work you can't sue the company because they intended it to be used on bears.

So I see it as you can use it on any animal, but it's intended use is for bears only.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

When I read the bold, I interpret it as you can use it on cougars, but if its doesn't work you can't sue the company because they intended it to be used on bears.

So I see it as you can use it on any animal, but it's intended use is for bears only.

Think of it like a pesticide...which it actually is.. sort of...

Anyway... when products such as that are licensed for use in Canada the manufaturer specifies the use on that licence and label.

A particular insecticide might work on all insects and most do but... it might only be APPROVED (by the Canadian government) for use against what is on that label.

An example of this would be Bedbugs... most insecticies can kill them but very few are APPROVED for that use because the companies didn't (for any number of reasons) include Bedbugs in their application for approval.

In this case I would thing that it means what you think it does AND that while they know it would likely be effective against cougars.... they cannot advertise that in Canada because they chose not apply to market their product for that use here.

I suspect that it is simply a matter of not having tested it out on cougars... they decided not to risk trying to market an unproven product formulation for that use.

But I'm sure it would work just the same.

[huntmaster83]

Agreed, speed (for you and oncoming boo boo) is the key factor here and a reason why if you are packing bear spray make sure you are fully aware of how to use it, otherwise it's a weighted can of seasoning on your hip! Sure this was already posted on here before but a reminder those furry tanks can move surprisingly fast! Check out the 2:30 mark to see. Would not be the time I would want to try the first practice run with the spray that's for sure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VQSZ4c20KE

[Nester]

Originally Posted by IronJackWhitton

Different situations call for different tools.

.[/B]

Exactly

[Nester]

Teenager mistaken for bear shot, killed outside Manitoba tent


http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06...manitoba-tent/