Time for a New Bow. Input please.

[justinO]

Hello all, looking for some advice.

Well I have had my high country 4 runner for about 16 years I am deadly with it but I think it is time to buy something new. I like shooting heavy arrows and these new bows are just faster quieter and better. I am looking at but not limited to the Hoyt carbon element g3 in the 35" platform, spyder turbo. In mathews the MR5 possibly the z7 magnum but it is not offered in the 80lb + draw weight that I want. I like a longer platform not a fan of the smaller bows. If you know of something that might be better please let me know.
Thanks in advance
Justin

[ASAT1]

You should Try the Bowtech Insanity CPXL ,I have the CPX which is shorter axle to axle but they have amazing speed.The Bowtech Experience is another bow that is smooth but not as fast. Try out lots of them and decide for yourself, the Spyder looks and seems like a wicked bow as well ,saw a guy shoot it the other day , WOW, probably Hoyts best bow to date, Good Luck

[PA-SILVERBACK]

Find a shop with a Large variety and shoot as many as You can... Let the bow pick You ... That makes it easier on Your decision making ..

[BuckHunterBowen]

z7 extreme:sHa_shakes hout:

[justinO]

Thanks for the input guys. I am heading to sherwood park tomorrow to look at what they have. I believe they are the closest shop to Edmonton that carries both mathews and hoyt.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

Arent they closed for a while ...?

Neil

[Zuludog]

Originally Posted by L.O.S.T.Arrow

Arent they closed for a while ...?

Neil

Website says they are opening tomorrow.

[justinO]

Yes it open's tomorrow from what I herd.

[Ragnarok]

I've heard awesome things about the new Bear lineup, especially the motive 6 and 7, as well as the new Bowtech Experience

[Stinky Coyote]

bowtech specialist, 4 lb 2 oz, 37 5/8" ata, 7.5" bh, 330 fps factory rated ibo speed...and mine is ibo-ing 329 fps, my previous hoyt carbon element rkt factory ibo was 330 fps and i got 332 fps (2 fps over) but it had about 31.5" ata and just under 7" bh...

when i researched, owners who had tried both the specialist and cpxl most said they prefered the specialist for variety of reasons, grip, accuracy, etc.

good luck with your choice, this is the first bow over 34" i've shot and i love it, doesn't feel nearly as big as it sounds, it feels and handles like a hunting bow, 37 5/8" ata isn't really that big

[338Bluff]

Buy Canadian. Buy APA.

The new Mamba is putting my Hoyt CRX35 and Matthew Drenalin (if I still owned it) to shame. Dropped draw weight to 63 pounds and it is still the fastest, smoothest bow I have shot. I held out for along time until I saw how well my buddies APA's were performing. Now I'm drinking the coo-lade too!

36 inch axle to axle, M8 at 63# is shooting a hunting weight arrow at 290+. If I wanted to drop to 6 grains per pound it would be sick fast.

[L.O.S.T.Arrow]

As mentioned the APA is an excellent choice this year as is Mission Mathews ...

the APA line up is outstanding..

Neil

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

bowtech specialist, 4 lb 2 oz, 37 5/8" ata, 7.5" bh, 330 fps factory rated ibo speed...and mine is ibo-ing 329 fps, my previous hoyt carbon element rkt factory ibo was 330 fps and i got 332 fps (2 fps over) but it had about 31.5" ata and just under 7" bh...

when i researched, owners who had tried both the specialist and cpxl most said they prefered the specialist for variety of reasons, grip, accuracy, etc.

good luck with your choice, this is the first bow over 34" i've shot and i love it, doesn't feel nearly as big as it sounds, it feels and handles like a hunting bow, 37 5/8" ata isn't really that big

Thanks, What draw length/weight were you shooting? And what arrow weight? So you prefer the specialist over your carbon element? I like the longer bows if I went with the element I would get the 35" platform. But I will look at the specialist now forsure thanks for the input.

338 bluff I will also look at that mamba. Do they have an 80lb model? I guess I can look that up on my own. thanks for the note.

I can't get through to sherwood park archery, does anyone know if they are open? I don't want to waste a trip out there if it's closed.

[Stinky Coyote]

i shot the hoyt at 68 lbs (it was a 65lb version that maxed at 68) and this bowtech maxes out right at 70 lbs on the nose, i shoot 29" draw length

i have easton digital bow scale to measure draw weight (tournament accurate) and i have a grains scale to measure arrow weights, d-loop weights etc. plus my chrony so i can get very accurate figures to plug into this ibo equalizing calculator...you plug in all the variables, weight added to string with peeps/d-loops etc. i use anchorsight so only have to add the weight of d-loop and mine go 6 grains...so you fudge the velocity along the top and hit the calculate button and adjust until you get a match...then you can see how close to ibo your bow hits with your draw length/arrow weight/draw weight, fun to play with

http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/calc/

Another favorite calculator i use in designing my next batch of arrows, mostly to factor out foc although i've found when the arrows are built my actual balance point foc is a tad higher than what this calc gives but its close enough but still good to know you'll probably be a bit higher actual foc, i weigh everything, fletches, nocks, inserts etc. the calculator is very accurate if you plug in accurate numbers, have fun

http://www.goldtip.com/calculators.aspx

i did a full write up of the hoyt and an initial write up of the specialist, search my posts, the specialist one is likely only one or two pages back of this post fyi and you'll see i'm doing 304 fps with 388 grains at 70 lbs and 29"...you add that 6 gr d-loop into the calculator and i'm ibo equalized at 327 fps but thru a bisquit loses 2 fps so i'm within 1 fps of the ibo....doing all the same with the hoyt i equalized 2 fps over ibo with a drop away, and the bow before this was a mathews mr7 and i tested the drop away vs bisquit back to back for 2 fps difference on 368 gr arrows with blazers even though i'm running 3" vanes now they are ultra thin so i'm using the same 2 fps guestimate off loss of speed, close enough for me anyhow, who knows it could be hitting ibo

[spuds]

Sherwood park isn't a Hoyt dealer anymore, and at present there isn't a dealer in edmonton

[Stinky Coyote]

i forgot to mention, i can't say i prefer the specialist to the element rkt, the specialist equals for the most part the output of the shorter and less brace height element with a harsher cam

you could not go wrong with the element 31.5" or carbon matrix 35", they do everything top of the line, the pull a bit nicer but don't kid yourself they are a high performance cam your pulling, they hold nice, feel incredible, ultra dead in hand and quiet, balance, they are luxury hot rods, top of the line, i stand by that

if luxury is required? i've decided i could give a rats butt as i only hunt, i only get so much practice time a year so i make it count, its almost all outdoors on glendel full rut targets out to 80+ yards, i do more the past few years in basement etc. as i keep setting up new bows each year as i've been interested in trying the new stuff out, i'm kinda sick of it now so i suspect the specialist will get used for at least a few seasons, it has more hand vibe at shot and bit harsher draw, it holds like a rock, i like its balance

the mr7 i shot before these two was also incredible top end bow, i still stand by that too, it drew the smoothest with those huge cams, very stable strong and ultra dead bow with great balance...i guess what i'm getting at is now that, high end bows are all pretty dang good, if i shot a ton and the vibes bothered my hands/joints etc. then a dead shooter would be a luxury to look forward too, i could also tame out the bit of vibe in bows with that like the specialist but the mr7 and element rkt did not need any sort of stabilization/vibe reduction, they were dead in hand with just the normal acc. added on and quiver etc. but no stabs

the way i see it, figure out the spec you want in terms of ata/bh/speed and then the bows that fit that, then see if you can get your hands on them or then do the research from others to read through the lines for the info your looking for about them, those 35" ata 7" bh bows were very attractive to me for spec but this specialist essentially for the same weight, awesome grip/stability feel you get even more ata and the big bonus is that extra 1/2" bh....7.5" bh and a 330 fps ibo is impressive imo....but to have a 37 5/8" ata also, just incredible spec to me and light enough etc. that it still feels like a hunting bow...

so the only reason i'm shooting it over anything else this year is because i've never really played with a bow that would cross over into the target stuff, 3d, spots or whatever...i only hunt so never payed much attention to the target spec like bows, the specialist has a good name, it does seem to blend the benefits of safe target spec with what hunters like, lightweight, powerful cams, i'm merely curious, did homework on the bow based on the spec, liked what i read enough, a buddy had one, sold it tried something else and then went back to it and it was handling his first one that really impressed me the first time, it feels great, the grip and feel in your hand is excellent for me and its raved about by others, even those who had both the cpxl and specialist, the grip seemed a common favorite over the cpxl and a top feature on the specialist

i'm just curious, you cannot go wrong with these top bows, technologies are pretty peaked out imo, go with whatever tickles your fancy the most, thats all i'm doing, right now its the specialist and as mentioned, i've done enough testing the past few seasons i'm ready to settle down with one again

[justinO]

Hey Stinky, Thanks so much for your time and help. I feel the same way with the bows now not sure how much better they can get. I am a little different I find something I like and I stick with it till something comes along that is so much better lol. My last bow has shot through more shots that a calculator can talley haha. I will now find something that will hopefully serve me for another 15 years. After reading your posts sounds like you have done some serious research. I haven't gone to the calculator links you posted I will after writing this. I am interested to see what those bows will do at a 29" draw and 80lb+ draw weight. I shoot a lot and now that my soccer career has ended I would like to get into the 3d world too. I am trying to do as much research I can to narrow it down to 4-6 bows so I can locate them all and try them out then see what suits me the best.

Thanks again for all the time you spent you've been very helpful. I will also go back and read your other threads.
Now I just need to find a place to see these bows

[justinO]

And have you herd or know anything about the element in the 35" platform I saw it mentioned as an option on the hoyt website.

[Kale_M]

The Hoyt carbon matrix is probably one of the best all around bows out there. Stable, fast , smooth and indestructible!!!!

[Stinky Coyote]

i know of one a friend has, ibo's 5 fps over, so instead of hitting its 325 fps rating its doing 330 fps equivelant (so within 2 fps of my element) and he is very happy with it, tackdriver to 80 etc. it would be a pinnacle hunt bow no question but you gotta check em out in person for the money

[Zuludog]

Originally Posted by justinO

Yes it open's tomorrow from what I herd.

Went there (SPAL) yesterday to check it out and its NOT open. Best of all they didn't change the message on their website or on the voicemail. Nothing like driving out to Sherwood Park for nothing, I'm just glad I left from work and not home,so it wasn't as bad.

[justinO]

Wow that's impressive thanks Stinky. Is he on this site? If he is I would love to get his input he can P.M me if he wants. I am just looking now for places to see these bows harder than I thought it would be. It will be a long term investment so I really want to find something that fits me perfect. As for your speeds you posted are your arrows 368gr total? My arrows I shoot now and will continue to shoot are 11.3/" bare. so ill be close to 450gr total shooting weight. From your knowledge with an 29" DL, 80lb draw weight with these top end bows how close to ibo would I be with these arrows a drop away and string d-loop. With my set up now I am just under 270 my 20 pin to 80 pin is the distance from Edmonton to Calgary haha
Thanks again
Justin

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Zuludog

Went there (SPAL) yesterday to check it out and its NOT open. Best of all they didn't change the message on their website or on the voicemail. Nothing like driving out to Sherwood Park for nothing, I'm just glad I left from work and not home,so it wasn't as bad.

Haha I was tempted to drive out also as I called many times and got that message saying march 1st. But thanks for being the guinea pig hahaha Any note on the door as to when they will open?

[Zuludog]

Originally Posted by justinO

Haha I was tempted to drive out also as I called many times and got that message saying march 1st. But thanks for being the guinea pig hahaha Any note on the door as to when they will open?

No note on the door either. lol I looked through the glass & it looks like they still have LOTS to do. It looks dry walled and taped but it still needs to be painted and the shop is still bare inside.

[Stinky Coyote]

unsure if you can get 80 lbers on the hoyt carbons? anyhow, he does poke is head around here from time to time but doesn't say much, will he pm you? maybe if he sees this thread? i run arrow weights from 365 to 390 for the most part, this year around 389gr

here is easy way to calculate what your approximate speed will be, example, my specialist with 29" draw at 70 lbs gives me 10 ft/lbs more ke on the arrow than pull weight, so i get 80 ft/lbs...you can then use that and vary arrow weight/velocity to get the same extra say 10 ft/lbs....some bows do more than 10 ft/lbs but i think for the bows in the 35" ata and 7" bh range and at the 29" i think pretty safe to say most ibo 330 to 340 fps, so same likely approx. 10 more ft/lbs ke...so your going to see around 90 ft/lbs give or take....go to that one calculator, fudge in your arrow weight and play with velocity until you see 90 ft/lbs and you'll have rough idea what speeds you'll get, my guess is you'll run around 300 fps, i plugged in calculator and used 15 grains on the string for peep and d-loop and added the 10 ft/lbs and says you'll be doing 300 fps...maybe up to 305 fps depending on bow but i'm betting you'll see at least 300 fps

[justinO]

Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote

unsure if you can get 80 lbers on the hoyt carbons? anyhow, he does poke is head around here from time to time but doesn't say much, will he pm you? maybe if he sees this thread? i run arrow weights from 365 to 390 for the most part, this year around 389gr

here is easy way to calculate what your approximate speed will be, example, my specialist with 29" draw at 70 lbs gives me 10 ft/lbs more ke on the arrow than pull weight, so i get 80 ft/lbs...you can then use that and vary arrow weight/velocity to get the same extra say 10 ft/lbs....some bows do more than 10 ft/lbs but i think for the bows in the 35" ata and 7" bh range and at the 29" i think pretty safe to say most ibo 330 to 340 fps, so same likely approx. 10 more ft/lbs ke...so your going to see around 90 ft/lbs give or take....go to that one calculator, fudge in your arrow weight and play with velocity until you see 90 ft/lbs and you'll have rough idea what speeds you'll get, my guess is you'll run around 300 fps, i plugged in calculator and used 15 grains on the string for peep and d-loop and added the 10 ft/lbs and says you'll be doing 300 fps...maybe up to 305 fps depending on bow but i'm betting you'll see at least 300 fps

Thanks for the formula, That is very close to what I was thinking they would do speed wise. And I have never seen a carbon with the 80lbs draw weight but on their website it shows you can get it. So we will see if I go the Hoyt element route I think I will need to get a specialty order with the 35" platform and 80lb dw for sure.
I am going to head down to barrhead to see some bows hopefully tomorrow, I will keep you posted.
Thanks again to everyone
Justin

[remmy300]

Shoot em all. I have been shooting for 27 years and have shot a lot of bows in that time. Last year I strayed away from the norm and narrowed it down to the bow tech cpxl and hoyt vector turbo. Both longer ata bows and both smooth drawing. I ended up with the hoyt and loved it until someone walked out of my house with it. I started again this year and ended up with a pse supra. Longer ata, good brace height, super smooth and still fast.

Shoot em all and you will narrow them down in a hurry.

[Stinky Coyote]

Remmy, tried a few shots on a vendetta xl 7 3/8" bh, thought I would like it slot but didn't compared to specialist, give one a shoot if the supra feels anything like the vendetta! The supra was another thought about but in end the extra weight and the downer feel i got from the vendetta and I wanted the flx guard too for cam lean

[justinO]

Well I have shot as many as I could in the hoyts and mathews. I Am 95% set on the spyder turbo in the 80# Thought the element would have been better than it was didn't impress me. The mathews creed was very nice also but not being offered in the 80# draw weight gave the advantage to the spyder turbo. I wasn't able to shoot the bowtech or the apa as they never carried them. I want to wait till I can give them a try.

As for speed my 15 year old high country four runner was right there it was pushing my 498gr arrows at 273 fps. It will stay as my back up bow to much sentimental value
Shows me bows are pretty much peaked out.

Thanks again for all the help. Once I get my bow I will post some pics.