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View Poll Results: Allow .223” diam. bullets as new min. for hunting?
Yes 140 38.25%
No 207 56.56%
Undecided 19 5.19%
Voters: 366. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2018, 04:15 PM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Post Poll, allow .223” diam. bullets for big game?

Now that we’ve had some digest time...reduce the min diam. from .243 to .223?
  #2  
Old 08-01-2018, 04:25 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Why not ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5_n9l5Etko
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:27 PM
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hahaha. derailed already
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:35 PM
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Difference in diameter between current minimum is 8.2% fyi.
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Old 08-01-2018, 04:51 PM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Difference in diameter between current minimum is 8.2% fyi.
In other terms the diff is .020 .. That's more than the difference between a .358 and a .375 by .003
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Old 08-01-2018, 05:15 PM
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Definitely not, nothing smaller than .224".
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:35 AM
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hahaha. derailed already
Yup,that went sideways quick,Bahahahaa!!😂😝
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:48 AM
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I LOVE this thread!
So much ****ing competition it's hellacious!

So much emotion!

I'm guessing there's a lot of "big hat, no land" statements here.
(Big gun, small antlers)
(I'm in Manitoba where I can hunt with a .223 caliber (.22-250) biggest buck is 143nt, but as you can see he broke a tine)




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Old 08-05-2018, 10:39 AM
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Thanks for the first hand experience
What bullet and what distance?

Nice buck
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:43 PM
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I LOVE this thread!
So much ****ing competition it's hellacious!

So much emotion!

I'm guessing there's a lot of "big hat, no land" statements here.
(Big gun, small antlers)
(I'm in Manitoba where I can hunt with a .223 caliber (.22-250) biggest buck is 143nt, but as you can see he broke a tine)




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Nice rack!
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  #11  
Old 08-05-2018, 12:00 PM
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Is it just me, or does it seem like most of the gun nuts who think a .223 should be legal for big game already own fairly hot magnums, and are often known to tout their superiority?

Can the .223 be used to humanely take deer? Of course it can. Is there any real good reason to do this? Not really other than a few nuts want to try a new stunt. If the .223 was made legal a bunch of dudes with safes full of far better rifles would go set up a new rifle, come up with a load, use it a season or two and go back to their .300 mag... and a bunch of people who don't know any better would go pick up some bulk varmint amo and send their kid after deer with the old gopher gun.

Honestly, there are a million gun and hunting related policies that energy would be far better spent working on. Using a .223 seems like pulling a travel trailer with a mini van, it can be done but why bother?
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Old 08-05-2018, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bushleague View Post
is it just me, or does it seem like most of the gun nuts who think a .223 should be legal for big game already own fairly hot magnums, and are often known to tout their superiority?

Can the .223 be used to humanely take deer? Of course it can. Is there any real good reason to do this? Not really other than a few nuts want to try a new stunt. If the .223 was made legal a bunch of dudes with safes full of far better rifles would go set up a new rifle, come up with a load, use it a season or two and go back to their .300 mag... And a bunch of people who don't know any better would go pick up some bulk varmint amo and send their kid after deer with the old gopher gun.

Honestly, there are a million gun and hunting related policies that energy would be far better spent working on. Using a .223 seems like pulling a travel trailer with a mini van, it can be done but why bother?
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:07 PM
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Magnumitus

It’s real
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:25 PM
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Magnumitus

It’s real
He who likes to dish it out, better be able to take it.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:39 PM
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He who likes to dish it out, better be able to take it.
Haha, no prob, the skin is thick, would not have come back to play otherwise. Bring it mofos😉
  #16  
Old 08-08-2018, 12:07 AM
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This thread has become comedy gold!

I have no idea how people are misinterpreting the statements Kurt505 has made.

He’s simply saying many people claim using a 338 win mag will drop game in their tracks if you don’t hit it where you intended so that’s the reason to buy and use one. He witnessed a hunter use a 338 win mag to shoot a deer in the guts and the deer didn’t drop as quick as many people would expect. Then a shot from a rifle with a smaller caliber bullet in a smaller capacity cartridge ended the deer right there. So his point is that placement of the bullet is key and gut shooting deer isn’t effective regardless of what a person thinks a magnum will do.
Good grief how is that difficult???
People are twisting this so much.

Had the initial shot hit where the final shot did, the story wouldn’t be used to explain that a 338 was ineffective when hitting a deer in the guts.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kujoseto View Post
This thread has become comedy gold!

I have no idea how people are misinterpreting the statements Kurt505 has made.

He’s simply saying many people claim using a 338 win mag will drop game in their tracks if you don’t hit it where you intended so that’s the reason to buy and use one. He witnessed a hunter use a 338 win mag to shoot a deer in the guts and the deer didn’t drop as quick as many people would expect. Then a shot from a rifle with a smaller caliber bullet in a smaller capacity cartridge ended the deer right there. So his point is that placement of the bullet is key and gut shooting deer isn’t effective regardless of what a person thinks a magnum will do.
Good grief how is that difficult???
People are twisting this so much.

Had the initial shot hit where the final shot did, the story wouldn’t be used to explain that a 338 was ineffective when hitting a deer in the guts.
Welcome to the conversation, your comprehension is refreshing to say the least!
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Old 08-08-2018, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kujoseto View Post
This thread has become comedy gold!

I have no idea how people are misinterpreting the statements Kurt505 has made.

He’s simply saying many people claim using a 338 win mag will drop game in their tracks if you don’t hit it where you intended so that’s the reason to buy and use one. He witnessed a hunter use a 338 win mag to shoot a deer in the guts and the deer didn’t drop as quick as many people would expect. Then a shot from a rifle with a smaller caliber bullet in a smaller capacity cartridge ended the deer right there. So his point is that placement of the bullet is key and gut shooting deer isn’t effective regardless of what a person thinks a magnum will do.
Good grief how is that difficult???
People are twisting this so much.

Had the initial shot hit where the final shot did, the story wouldn’t be used to explain that a 338 was ineffective when hitting a deer in the guts.
So the question is, what would the Buck have done had it been shot in the guts with the 280 or any other cartrage ?

So if the 338 is not the magic pill, neither is any other cartrage, pretty sure we get that.

So here's the conundrum:

Magnum cartrages in the "Correct" hands are lethal weapons at greater distances, would this be a true statement then.

It sounds like this Ron fellow, "No disrespect to him" since he is not here to tell his side of the story on why he failed to come to the hunt ill prepared.

This is not a true hunter as all folks should know better than go a-field with out extra ammo, "And" some extra gear that is required before grabbing the gun to step out of the truck. Total fail on Ron's part.

Since we all know that what ever catrage or caliber is capable of killing all kinds of critter, what happens when distance becomes a factor for a shooter with tact driving skills "if" this be the case.

Is this person with all his skills limited to a small bore catrage with limited energy down range, or would it be wize to choose something that will deliver high impact down there.

Most folks on this forum as well as many that aren't know what they prefer to see down range when it comes to hammer time.

The 100% perfect shot does not show up at all times, the critters show up at different angles, distances, poor light conditions, crappy weather, places where it's hard to get that shot.

Experience hunters know one thing, bring enough bullet, powder, and skills to gather thier game "if" it is do-ible.

Shot placement has been around for years, the question is, is there enough bullet at a good speed to get the job done.

All the camp fires across our Americas might be asking this question when the harvest gets underway.

Do I have the cartrage, caliber, skills along with all the extra tack to pull this kill off. If not, what kind of game plan can I/We come up with to better the odds.

Can we close the gap, would it be wize to bunker down there since I know that those bullets will be travelling very fast to that distance.

Everyone knows that a **** poor shot can come from a 22 rimfire on up to the 50 So-Cal with everything in between.

If the impact is 2", 4" or a fraction more off center shot, what cartrage / caliber of firearm would you choose.

223, or larger ?

I highly doubt there will be alot of camp fires burning with the small caliber firearm close by, but then again, I don't know since we only contend to the flames at the fire where we camp.

Last edited by Don_Parsons; 08-08-2018 at 05:36 AM.
  #19  
Old 08-08-2018, 05:54 AM
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The .223 makes my broad heads seem inadequate on big game yet I fill the freezer using 100gr broad heads .....go figure eh!
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
The .223 makes my broad heads seem inadequate on big game yet I fill the freezer using 100gr broad heads .....go figure eh!
The difference is .223 bullets kinetic energy compared to the total weight of the arrows momentum.
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Last edited by Salavee; 08-08-2018 at 08:32 AM.
  #21  
Old 08-08-2018, 04:44 PM
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The difference is .223 bullets kinetic energy compared to the total weight of the arrows momentum.
In which placed in the right area both will kill as long as you stay within its effective range, sounds real easy to me, don't understand what the hick up is on this thread.
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  #22  
Old 08-08-2018, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Parsons View Post
So the question is, what would the Buck have done had it been shot in the guts with the 280 or any other cartrage ?

So if the 338 is not the magic pill, neither is any other cartrage, pretty sure we get that.

So here's the conundrum:

Magnum cartrages in the "Correct" hands are lethal weapons at greater distances, would this be a true statement then.

It sounds like this Ron fellow, "No disrespect to him" since he is not here to tell his side of the story on why he failed to come to the hunt ill prepared.

This is not a true hunter as all folks should know better than go a-field with out extra ammo, "And" some extra gear that is required before grabbing the gun to step out of the truck. Total fail on Ron's part.

Since we all know that what ever catrage or caliber is capable of killing all kinds of critter, what happens when distance becomes a factor for a shooter with tact driving skills "if" this be the case.

Is this person with all his skills limited to a small bore catrage with limited energy down range, or would it be wize to choose something that will deliver high impact down there.

Most folks on this forum as well as many that aren't know what they prefer to see down range when it comes to hammer time.

The 100% perfect shot does not show up at all times, the critters show up at different angles, distances, poor light conditions, crappy weather, places where it's hard to get that shot.

Experience hunters know one thing, bring enough bullet, powder, and skills to gather thier game "if" it is do-ible.

Shot placement has been around for years, the question is, is there enough bullet at a good speed to get the job done.

All the camp fires across our Americas might be asking this question when the harvest gets underway.

Do I have the cartrage, caliber, skills along with all the extra tack to pull this kill off. If not, what kind of game plan can I/We come up with to better the odds.

Can we close the gap, would it be wize to bunker down there since I know that those bullets will be travelling very fast to that distance.

Everyone knows that a **** poor shot can come from a 22 rimfire on up to the 50 So-Cal with everything in between.

If the impact is 2", 4" or a fraction more off center shot, what cartrage / caliber of firearm would you choose.

223, or larger ?

I highly doubt there will be alot of camp fires burning with the small caliber firearm close by, but then again, I don't know since we only contend to the flames at the fire where we camp.
In a nutshell, a bad shot is a bad shot, a hunter will choose both his game and his shot correctly according to circumstance and Ron is a farmer, and no, none of my facts changed, you just misinterpreted things.

Hope we're clear here.
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt505 View Post
In a nutshell, a bad shot is a bad shot, a hunter will choose both his game and his shot correctly according to circumstance and Ron is a farmer, and no, none of my facts changed, you just misinterpreted things.

Hope we're clear here.
What ever works my friend, it's your story that you chose to speculate on.

Cheers
  #24  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:10 AM
Stinky Coyote Stinky Coyote is offline
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Don, that’s a good way to look at it in your questions of seeing a magnum as simply being able to go further and do the same thing.

With today’s bullets, the cartridges around then, can blur the lines of all that and increase the versatility.

A 300 win mag might double the distance of a 308 win for example. But understanding the numbers of penetration and impact velocities you can see what these new bullets and cartridges can do compared to the old standards we know. When the bc and sd goes up, and bullet construction is such that you don’t need to compensate coming apart with weight...well...game changing stuff.

If you look at the max distance of a 308, in 165 gr at 2700 FPS launch and you say it’s good to 400 yards in your eyes...then you’ll see what it’s s.d. And impact velocity is. That’s all magnums do beyond dead imo, is just extend the distance they can do dead. You can take a new cartridge designed around new bullets and do so much more, penetrate deeper due to s.d. and so much further because impact velocity was retained via b.c.. but only way to compare is get down to the common denominators that show this.
  #25  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:41 AM
Salavee Salavee is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky Coyote View Post
Don, that’s a good way to look at it in your questions of seeing a magnum as simply being able to go further and do the same thing.

With today’s bullets, the cartridges around then, can blur the lines of all that and increase the versatility.

A 300 win mag might double the distance of a 308 win for example. But understanding the numbers of penetration and impact velocities you can see what these new bullets and cartridges can do compared to the old standards we know. When the bc and sd goes up, and bullet construction is such that you don’t need to compensate coming apart with weight...well...game changing stuff.

If you look at the max distance of a 308, in 165 gr at 2700 FPS launch and you say it’s good to 400 yards in your eyes...then you’ll see what it’s s.d. And impact velocity is. That’s all magnums do beyond dead imo, is just extend the distance they can do dead. You can take a new cartridge designed around new bullets and do so much more, penetrate deeper due to s.d. and so much further because impact velocity was retained via b.c.. but only way to compare is get down to the common denominators that show this.
All larger capacity cases do is send more bullet weight, with the same design and construction, downrange at similar or greater velocities. That's pretty much a gimme when it comes to terminal performance. How can you change that ?
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  #26  
Old 08-08-2018, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kujoseto View Post
He’s simply saying many people claim using a 338 win mag will drop game in their tracks if you don’t hit it where you intended so that’s the reason to buy and use one. He witnessed a hunter use a 338 win mag to shoot a deer in the guts and the deer didn’t drop as quick as many people would expect. Then a shot from a rifle with a smaller caliber bullet in a smaller capacity cartridge ended the deer right there. So his point is that placement of the bullet is key and gut shooting deer isn’t effective regardless of what a person thinks a magnum will do.
Good grief how is that difficult???
People are twisting this so much.

Had the initial shot hit where the final shot did, the story wouldn’t be used to explain that a 338 was ineffective when hitting a deer in the guts.
Who exactly is making this claim? In all these threads, I have yet to see it. In fact, I think everyone agrees proper bullet placement is key. Not a single poster has argued that fact. Problem being, unless you're as godlike as kurt, chuckie, and rem, not every shot is gonna be perfect. In a perfect world it would be and we could all use .17 hmr's, but it ain't a perfect world. If I don't make a perfect shot, I know there are a lot of choices a heck of a lot better than a .223. Some real world hunting experience will tell you that.
Like I said, if you can't handle recoil, do something about it, there are better options than advocating the use of a .223.
And contrary to kurts continuous ramblings, shooting a magnum doesn't mean you can't "shoot"
If you get buck fever and can't hit the broad side of a barn with a .338, same thing is gonna happen with a .223


Are we all in agreement that a properly placed .17 hmr projectile will cleanly kill a deer at 50-100 yards? Perhaps that should be the new minimum caliber?
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:37 AM
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Who exactly is making this claim? In all these threads, I have yet to see it. In fact, I think everyone agrees proper bullet placement is key. Not a single poster has argued that fact. Problem being, unless you're as godlike as kurt, chuckie, and rem, not every shot is gonna be perfect. In a perfect world it would be and we could all use .17 hmr's, but it ain't a perfect world. If I don't make a perfect shot, I know there are a lot of choices a heck of a lot better than a .223. Some real world hunting experience will tell you that.
Like I said, if you can't handle recoil, do something about it, there are better options than advocating the use of a .223.
And contrary to kurts continuous ramblings, shooting a magnum doesn't mean you can't "shoot"
If you get buck fever and can't hit the broad side of a barn with a .338, same thing is gonna happen with a .223


Are we all in agreement that a properly placed .17 hmr projectile will cleanly kill a deer at 50-100 yards? Perhaps that should be the new minimum caliber?
Speaking of godlike, you seem to know it all, what is the minimum sized cartridge we all should be using to take the not so perfect world shots?
  #28  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:32 AM
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Speaking of godlike, you seem to know it all, what is the minimum sized cartridge we all should be using to take the not so perfect world shots?
That’s pretty simple
6mm/ 243
  #29  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:49 AM
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That’s pretty simple
6mm/ 243
But...but I can cover 5 shots with a dime at 100 yds with my .17 hmr. It's cheap to shoot with little recoil so I can blast targets lots and lots so I will be a true marksman. Should be able to cleanly harvest a whitetail at 100 yards with proper bullet placement if I do my job.
Think of the children....

And yes, I agree, .240
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by marky_mark View Post
That’s pretty simple
6mm/ 243

Ohhhh, all of a sudden a 243 is good for not so perfect shot angles????

Um, you had better go back and read what you wrote on the 6.5 thread. According to you it's not adequate for the not so perfect shots.

TI, a .240 is adequate because someone told you it is, certainly not because you know any better.
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