Health Canada wants to raise the legal age to buy smokes to 21

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Yet this data shows just the opposite for Ontario.
http://www.mhp.gov.on.ca/en/smoke-fr...nue-120208.pdf





More data, but for all of Canada, without the figures for lost production.

http://www.cctc.ca/cctc/EN/industry-...s#.WLOP5PJmXCo

In both cases the taxes do not offset the increased health care costs, and when you add in the lost production, the deficit grows substantially.

The links leave a lot of questions unanswered. It depends on how those figures were gathered and quantified. Do those figures assume smokers who got ill would not have gotten ill if they didn't smoke. Were the reasons smokers took time off caused by smoking? I don't see a comparison that shows the loss of productivity values of non smokers who also get ill and take time off work.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

The links leave a lot of questions unanswered. It depends on how those figures were gathered and quantified. Do those figures assume smokers who got ill would not have gotten ill if they didn't smoke. Were the reasons smokers took time off caused by smoking? I don't see a comparison that shows the loss of productivity values of non smokers who also get ill and take time off work.

The second set of data did not consider lost production.

[rugatika]

Makes me wonder if the fine folks in HR could use that to refuse hiring fat people or smokers?

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I guess that is one thing you got right

I just inferred everything from what you wrote, and you did the same from what I wrote.

I am of the opinion that smoking should be left alone. If a guy wants to smoke let him.

it's easy to point at smoking because it has become taboo in the last 20 years.

Smokers are by far the most sociable people. At least those that do still smoke.
must be the ability to huddle together in freezing weather.

Smoking is the scapegoat when it comes to the healthcare system and shouldn't be.

those that want to play that tune, won't accept that there are other causes that are just as bad.

But the holier than thou crowd anti smokers won't leave that bone alone.

if you do everything else but smoke.
drink,
don't exercise,
eat red meat,
ride your ATV without a helmet,
whatever
and you find yourself hospitalized for anything that is related to those activities
you are just as guilty for being a drain on the system as much as a smoker.[/QUOTE]

So you are one of those guys who think smoking is healthy but eating red meat is not?

I am one of those guys who think that an adult should be able to decide for himself.

I am also one of those who thinks that the stench of one's filthy habit should be contained so that even one other that does not consent should have to put up with it.

[covey ridge]

[QUOTE=xxclaro;3481764]I agree, lung cancer seems like a no brainer as a smoking related illness. Mind you, I lost a friend at 18 years of age to lung cancer, and he didn't smoke either but I'm sure many cases are caused by it.
It just seems like even if everyone quite smoking and cigarettes were banned, lung cancer might go down but some other cancer or disease will step up and take up the slack. Seems like back when lots of people smoked but were also very active and ate more natural foods, they still managed to live a pretty long life. Now, we don't smoke anymore but we eat processed foods and tons of sugar while living sedentary lifestyles, and we're dropping like flies.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty well how I see it!
I am still for the freedom to choose life style for adults.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I just inferred everything from what you wrote, and you did the same from what I wrote.

I am of the opinion that smoking should be left alone. If a guy wants to smoke let him.

it's easy to point at smoking because it has become taboo in the last 20 years.

Smokers are by far the most sociable people. At least those that do still smoke.
must be the ability to huddle together in freezing weather.

Smoking is the scapegoat when it comes to the healthcare system and shouldn't be.

those that want to play that tune, won't accept that there are other causes that are just as bad.

But the holier than thou crowd anti smokers won't leave that bone alone.

if you do everything else but smoke.
drink,
don't exercise,
eat red meat,
ride your ATV without a helmet,
whatever
and you find yourself hospitalized for anything that is related to those activities
you are just as guilty for being a drain on the system as much as a smoker.

So you are one of those guys who think smoking is healthy but eating red meat is not?

I am one of those guys who think that an adult should be able to decide for himself.

I am also one of those who thinks that the stench of one's filthy habit should be contained so that even one other that does not consent should have to put up with it.[/QUOTE]

Nope just those that think it's a drain on the healthcare system and that no other bad habits can be
So you're kind of on the same page as me

[densa44]

I vote for 70 years!

[DevilsAdvocate]

Can you still buy Duty Free cigarettes on international plane rides??

HMMMM???

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

Can you still buy Duty Free cigarettes on international plane rides??

HMMMM???

Yes

[DevilsAdvocate]

Are cigs on reserves still tax free? HMMMM???

How do they get these cigs to the reserves......other than a few places by boat.....I'm pretty sure they have to use our highways???? HMMMM???

Is this a good thing?? Same question for international flights.

Seems like this move (which doesn't really bother me, other than the huge legal bills that will result and end up squashing it) is like bailing with a sieve.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

Kind of on the same page? I can kind of see that but what took you so long to kind of see that?

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Kind of on the same page? I can kind of see that but what took you so long to kind of see that?

That's why it's called a debate.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I would wager that the health care cost due to smoking is far more than the cost related to the sport of jumping out of a plane that is not about to crash or any other dangerous sport.

I am not in favor of banning anything, but those who smoke are not just doing so at their own risk but asking everyone to pay for their own indulgence. That's selfish.

Not quite true. Most of the cost of a pack of coffin nails is tax. A person pays cigarette taxes for 30-40 years, gets lung cancer and dies. Pain meds and a bit of hospital stay is all he gets. Also bear in mind the smoker does not live as lonk as the non-smoker and will therefore be less of a drain on pension plans.
I say have at 'er smokers.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Not quite true. Most of the cost of a pack of coffin nails is tax. A person pays cigarette taxes for 30-40 years, gets lung cancer and dies. Pain meds and a bit of hospital stay is all he gets. Also bear in mind the smoker does not live as lonk as the non-smoker and will therefore be less of a drain on pension plans.
I say have at 'er smokers.

I just do not buy your argument but for me it is a beside the point.

Beside the point because my main point is that the choice to smoke should be a choice and I really don't care about the balance at the end.

Beside the point because what you quoted I prefixed by saying "I would wager"

Beside the point because your opinion is just that an opinion and has no more backing than my wager.

Beside the point because I forgot to unsubscribe from this thread when I made my last comment to the OP

[gitrdun]

We're all destined to die. One way or the other....

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Not quite true. Most of the cost of a pack of coffin nails is tax. A person pays cigarette taxes for 30-40 years, gets lung cancer and dies. Pain meds and a bit of hospital stay is all he gets. Also bear in mind the smoker does not live as lonk as the non-smoker and will therefore be less of a drain on pension plans.
I say have at 'er smokers.

Actually an ICU bed is around $3500 per day in Canada. That doesn't include the nice little extras like CT's, bronchoscopies, tracheostomies, etc.

[Unregistered user]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Actually an ICU bed is around $3500 per day in Canada. That doesn't include the nice little extras like CT's, bronchoscopies, tracheostomies, etc.

Palliative care is what they get and a bed in a hospice is comparatively cheap. Governments are as addicted to tobacco taxes just as much as smokers are to nicotine plus they have the bonus of suing the manufacturers for even more money. Covey ridge your points don't stick, keep running.

[260 Rem]

All too often smokers families see the rubber hit the road. Within the past week Both my wife's sister and her husband went into palliative care. Lung cancer metastasized. Did it their way, smoked for sixty years and will spend the end of their days a room apart eating purée and voiding in a diaper. Yes, their choice does affect others.

[HyperMOA]

I never truly saw the problem before. On behalf of all doctors and nurses I would like to thank you smokers. If not for you, all of these individuals would be unemployed and on EI. Just from the income tax alone I thank you.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

I just inferred everything from what you wrote, and you did the same from what I wrote.

I am of the opinion that smoking should be left alone. If a guy wants to smoke let him.

it's easy to point at smoking because it has become taboo in the last 20 years.

Smokers are by far the most sociable people. At least those that do still smoke.
must be the ability to huddle together in freezing weather.

Smoking is the scapegoat when it comes to the healthcare system and shouldn't be.

those that want to play that tune, won't accept that there are other causes that are just as bad.

But the holier than thou crowd anti smokers won't leave that bone alone.

if you do everything else but smoke.
drink,
don't exercise,
eat red meat,
ride your ATV without a helmet,
whatever
and you find yourself hospitalized for anything that is related to those activities
you are just as guilty for being a drain on the system as much as a smoker.

Only un-helmeted ATV users sustain injuries?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Makes me wonder if the fine folks in HR could use that to refuse hiring fat people or smokers?

and they should if it would affect there job duties

[Ken101]

Indeed the habit of cigarette smoking has a lot of health hazards associated with it. This is a well-known fact, yet it is ignored by many. I believe this move by Health Canada is right and they should also put more emphasis on Tobacco Cessation Products that may lower the number of smokers.