Health Canada wants to raise the legal age to buy smokes to 21

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by elkdump

1000's of persons dying across Canada every year from drug overdose, Tens of thousands of ambulance calls and emergency hospital visits every year by drug over dose patients ,

Billion$ of Dollar$ of policing/court costs and lost/stolen items from the public ,

Dozens of gangland shootings and killings related to the drug trade,,

And this bunch of wasted skin collecting big government salaries and huge bearuecratic costs to the tax payers and they want to make it unlawfully to buy ciggy butts for anyone under 21 yrs,

Teenagers dying from street fentanyl , that is not a problem for Health Cadavor Canada,,,

What a bunch of delusional twits,

There really is no comparison between your examples and smoking. Smoking kills MANY more than all the above.......about 100 Canadians a day.

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by elkdump

People that break their leg or back and or suffer paralyses from skiing or snowmobiling or sky diving should have to pay for their own medical costs also,

All injuries here are 100% preventable and are the sole responsibility of their own choices

Not my problem at all ! Or anyone else for that matter, break your bones showing off ?

Pay your own way !

Insurance won't cover many of those activities...

LC

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

I would wager that the health care cost due to smoking is far more than the cost related to the sport of jumping out of a plane that is not about to crash or any other dangerous sport.

I am not in favor of banning anything, but those who smoke are not just doing so at their own risk but asking everyone to pay for their own indulgence. That's selfish.

Smoking costs taxpayers many thousands of times more......

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana...details-panel5

Total tobacco use is down from 35% to 1985 to 16% in 2012.
From 27% to 11% in teenagers during the same time
From 43% to 20% in people in their 20s.

Wouldn't call those results a failure.

The rate of smoking is dropping like a rock. If they can postpone kids from having access til later, it will drop even faster. The main problem is that there is a long line of middle age and older people lined up to really start showing signs of their disease . The funny part is that they always act surprised when it happens

[nube]

Millions of dollars every year from buildings burnt up every year in Alberta. I wonder if insurance companies will wake up to that

[riden]

Originally Posted by slickwilly

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-cana...details-panel5

Total tobacco use is down from 35% to 1985 to 16% in 2012.
From 27% to 11% in teenagers during the same time
From 43% to 20% in people in their 20s.

Wouldn't call those results a failure.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I looked it up, I am 50. The year I was born 60% of men smoked. Today it is 20%. That's an incredible change in my lifetime.

Kids today grow up laughing at smokers standing outside freezing. The cool factor is gone for most kids today.

The truth is, this has been effective. Very effective.

[gunluvr]

When I was a kid a pack of cigarettes cost 55 cents. Now what are they, 12 bucks? So the government slowly, incrementally raised the price to today's 12 bucks, leaving the decision to quit or cut back up to smokers. To their credit, many have, or are dead. The latter is the main reason for less smokers today.
Raising the tobacco purchasing age to 21 will only help a little, but not enough to kill tobacco tax revenue, and put tobacco farmers out of business.
So, it's not about concern for our health, is it?

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

If you want to stop people from smoking, make it so the smokers have to pay for their own healthcare for any illness directly related to their smoking. I bet once they have to front the bill majority of people will stop smoking.

That's a tired complaint.

Since the government went out of its way to try and get smoking to stop,

How many new taxes have been implemented to get that revenue stream back?

It's easy to isolate the smokers as being a drain on the healthcare system,

But since the 90's
We're paying way more for things.

Taxes upon taxes upon taxes.

Yup good thing we try and put a stop to that.

Not like anything else can possibly be a drain on that system.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

When I was a kid a pack of cigarettes cost 55 cents. Now what are they, 12 bucks? So the government slowly, incrementally raised the price to today's 12 bucks, leaving the decision to quit or cut back up to smokers. To their credit, many have, or are dead. The latter is the main reason for less smokers today.
Raising the tobacco purchasing age to 21 will only help a little, but not enough to kill tobacco tax revenue, and put tobacco farmers out of business.
So, it's not about concern for our health, is it?

And more taxes have been implemented to get that money elsewhere.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by riden

That's exactly what I was thinking. I looked it up, I am 50. The year I was born 60% of men smoked. Today it is 20%. That's an incredible change in my lifetime.

Kids today grow up laughing at smokers standing outside freezing. The cool factor is gone for most kids today.

The truth is, this has been effective. Very effective.

The change that you speak of is good.

The cool factor that you speak of has been replaced by another cool factor. I see kids standing in the cold sucking on electronic cigarettes that smell like cookie dough and other stuff. Nice kids! When I ask them about what they are doing some say that they have never tried real cigarettes

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

Iv'e often thought of the moral struggle doctors face when their cancer patients simply won't quit smoking. OK, you want to die, but you expect me to keep you living a little longer, and for taxpayers to pay for all of it.

Most don't mind, it's a days work and the drug companies that give them al kinds of graft are making a mint!

[gunluvr]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

And more taxes have been implemented to get that money elsewhere.

True. The real drain on the system is unchecked government spending. If only we were as passionate about addressing that as we are about the vices of each other.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by ETOWNCANUCK

That's a tired complaint.

Since the government went out of its way to try and get smoking to stop,

How many new taxes have been implemented to get that revenue stream back?

It's easy to isolate the smokers as being a drain on the healthcare system,

But since the 90's
We're paying way more for things.

Taxes upon taxes upon taxes.

Yup good thing we try and put a stop to that.

Not like anything else can possibly be a drain on that system.

I think that the governments knows that they can not control many things we do, so they might as well make the best of a bad situation and allow it and tax it. I actually thing the governments just wants a cut of the action and tax us and say it is for our own good.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by ghostguy6

If you want to stop people from smoking, make it so the smokers have to pay for their own healthcare for any illness directly related to their smoking. I bet once they have to front the bill majority of people will stop smoking.

They already are paying the same as you then add in the exorbidant amount of taxes they pay during their career of paying tobacco taxes. Smokers die sooner on average so we don't have to pay for pensions, old folks homes, extended care and drugs for as long as non smokers that live longer. Non smokers get less cancer but everybody dies from something, just because someone doesn't smoke it still cost as much for them to die of whatever illness or disease they die from, that also costs a fortune to treat. The longer we live on average (smoker or not) the more it costs the taxpayer to look after us. Our healthcare is keeping everyone alive much longer than we did even 50 years ago and it is causing a healthcare crisis that is well on its way to bankrupting us.

Why is it only smoking the governments is poopooing, why are they not after the toxic food additives and preservative industry, the fast food industry, the soda companies, etc. Because the additives they use that are causing disease and killing us are sanctioned by the government. Alcohol kills lots of people prematurely to say nothing of the social cost to families of addicts who can't handle it. Have You seen the commercial on TV lately that says that sitting in front of our computers, TV's, video games, couching it is the new smoking? What about bad diets and the obesity epidemic? Also mostly self inflicted? Why not charge these people more too

I don't know, but smokers seem to be getting demonized out of proportion to others who are just as self destructive in other ways.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Why is it only smoking the governments is poopooing, why are they not after the toxic food additives and preservative industry, the fast food industry, the soda companies, etc. Because the additives they use that are causing disease and killing us are sanctioned by the government. Alcohol kills lots of people prematurely to say nothing of the social cost to families of addicts who can't handle it. Have You seen the commercial on TV lately that says that sitting in front of our computers, TV's, video games, couching it is the new smoking? What about bad diets and the obesity epidemic? Also mostly self inflicted? Why not charge these people more too

I think it is obvious! Smoking has been proven to cause cancer! It's an easy prove! What may not be so obvious is that while they are sort of doing battle with smoking they are taking attention away from all the things you mentioned.

Big Agriculture. Big Pharma, the Fast Food Industry, the Processed Food Industry. the Sugar Industry are all in bed with Big Government. Heck, Coca Cola donates mega bucks to medical studies on health and wellness and Coke relies on corn producers for High Fructose Corn Syrup to make their product. We seem to be living in a time when all diseases are in epidemic proportions. Medical doctors get a lot of their education written off by donations from all of the above. Doctors don't try to cure anything anymore but just push pills to allow you to live with disease. Sick pays the bills. Wellness does not pay the bills.

Its one big mess, but once in a while they have to push against something to make it look like they are doing their job. I do not think the Government wants to really stop anything, but some of the more obvious things they will regulate and TAX.

Cigarettes will have to fall on the sword while a lot of boxed food poison will get the heart healthy sign of approval.

[Ken07AOVette]

Raise the price to $5 per cigarette. If that doesn't work keep doubling it until it does. Do the same with alcohol. Remove the crutch people may walk upright.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

Raise the price to $5 per cigarette. If that doesn't work keep doubling it until it does. Do the same with alcohol. Remove the crutch people may walk upright.

With all due respect, that may work for some but many will find a way to get their fix, legal or illegal.

I think that the only thing that will work is to realize that their whole life and everything in it will be better without cigarettes. They have to have a desire to quit.

[Coyotebutcher]

As a 15 year smoker I wish they would get it over with and make them $30-$40 a pack so I couldn't afford them. I hate smoking but am a weak man and can't find the will to quit. Need a financial kick to the nutts

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by Coyotebutcher

As a 15 year smoker I wish they would get it over with and make them $30-$40 a pack so I couldn't afford them. I hate smoking but am a weak man and can't find the will to quit. Need a financial kick to the nutts

That may work as well but some may turn to illegal activity to obtain the funds to support their habit and some may push and deal illegal cigarettes.

The government could make them illegal, but I do not think they are motivated to do something like that.

Admitting you are a weak man is a start . Why not seek out and addiction specialist and ask for help?

[Newview01]

What percentage of taxes on tobacco go towards health care? My guess is a lot of the tax goes towards general revenue. When they ban the under 21 crowd you can expect the price of a carton to increase significantly.

[colroggal]

All else aside, at 18 Canadians have the legal right to vote and can fight and die for our country, but if this passes we can't buy a pack of smokes. Hmm?

Colin

[Peterupnorth]

I know smokin isn't good. Lost quite a few to it, many in their late 80's and some 90's.
As for the cost, many of us just simply add it to our retail price, ....sortof like the carbon tax, .....why should I take the hit? We all pay it.
Personally don't care if you smoke or drink truckloads of pop.
Don't like to run other people's lives.

[covey ridge]

Originally Posted by colroggal

All else aside, at 18 Canadians have the legal right to vote and can fight and die for our country, but if this passes we can't buy a pack of smokes. Hmm?

Colin

Colin
I support your right to vote and appreciate those all who fight and die for our country and make our country better.
I also support your right to make your own decisions about whether to smoke or not smoke.
Would you also fight to ease or prevent the massive health care burden that addiction diseases cause?
I have heard it said many times by smokers that they are only hurting themselves. I am here to say, not so. I witnessed a dear family member fight and loose a battle with lung cancer. Her death was very painful and very slow coming and I for one prayed for it to come sooner.
Not only did this process hurt my family, it hurt her husband and her children and her grandchildren and many others and many others. I will not even begin to estimate what her treatment and care cost before she became palliative.

I also know that at one time she thought her choice only hurt herself.

I am glad that she had health care til her final struggled breath.

She was 58 when she passed.

[JustMe]

So how many of us does this affect?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Newview01

What percentage of taxes on tobacco go towards health care? My guess is a lot of the tax goes towards general revenue.

Healthcare money comes from general revenue..no?

[patriot1]

I fully support such a ban and raising the age to 21. I just can't wrap my head around why people take up such a habit to begin with. Smoking/vaping are 2 of the most disgusting things a person can do IMO. I don't let smokers into my home or vehicles, I will take the bus before riding with a smoker too and I flat out tell them point blank why too. I try as much as possible only to hire non smokers and when I meet smokers I don't make much of an effort to forge a friendship.

[xxclaro]

Threads like this remind me why we don't and never will have real freedom. Everyone wants to control the behavior of others, and feels justified in doing so because the behavior is "bad". They bellow and bawl when someone tries to ban or regulate things that they themselves enjoy, even though those people see these things as dangerous to others as well. Its sad and pathetic, really, but folks have forever been too stupid to see how trying to ban things like this will fail time and again. Is there a good reason to smoke? Nope, probably not. Still, if an adult person wants to do so, I don't care. They pay a ton of taxes, die early and probably cost the system less in the long run. Is there any reason to be hugely fat and out of shape and yet continue with horrible eating habits? Do those people have any less health issues than smokers, or live any longer? Nope, they just pay less taxes to offset their healthcare costs than smokers. But don't worry, keep encouraging your friendly government to ban more things, eventually they will get around to you and your habits too. Maybe we could even help them along a little bit....I propose legislation that anyone more than 20lb overweight pays all their own health care costs.....anyone doing more than 5km/hr over the speed limit at the time of an accident pays all healthcare costs and gets no insurance at all...in fact lets restrict all vehicles to a 120km/hr max speed, no need to go any faster than that and its far too dangerous! Help me out folks, if we can just make enough laws and ban enough things, we will soon all be healthy, happy, rich and immortal!

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by xxclaro

Threads like this remind me why we don't and never will have real freedom. Everyone wants to control the behavior of others, and feels justified in doing so because the behavior is "bad". They bellow and bawl when someone tries to ban or regulate things that they themselves enjoy, even though those people see these things as dangerous to others as well. Its sad and pathetic, really, but folks have forever been too stupid to see how trying to ban things like this will fail time and again. Is there a good reason to smoke? Nope, probably not. Still, if an adult person wants to do so, I don't care. They pay a ton of taxes, die early and probably cost the system less in the long run. Is there any reason to be hugely fat and out of shape and yet continue with horrible eating habits? Do those people have any less health issues than smokers, or live any longer? Nope, they just pay less taxes to offset their healthcare costs than smokers. But don't worry, keep encouraging your friendly government to ban more things, eventually they will get around to you and your habits too. Maybe we could even help them along a little bit....I propose legislation that anyone more than 20lb overweight pays all their own health care costs.....anyone doing more than 5km/hr over the speed limit at the time of an accident pays all healthcare costs and gets no insurance at all...in fact lets restrict all vehicles to a 120km/hr max speed, no need to go any faster than that and its far too dangerous! Help me out folks, if we can just make enough laws and ban enough things, we will soon all be healthy, happy, rich and immortal!

This ^^^^^

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by patriot1

I fully support such a ban and raising the age to 21. I just can't wrap my head around why people take up such a habit to begin with. Smoking/vaping are 2 of the most disgusting things a person can do IMO. I don't let smokers into my home or vehicles, I will take the bus before riding with a smoker too and I flat out tell them point blank why too. I try as much as possible only to hire non smokers and when I meet smokers I don't make much of an effort to forge a friendship.

same can be said about any bad habits you have.

[ETOWNCANUCK]

Originally Posted by covey ridge

Colin
I support your right to vote and appreciate those all who fight and die for our country and make our country better.
I also support your right to make your own decisions about whether to smoke or not smoke.
Would you also fight to ease or prevent the massive health care burden that addiction diseases cause?
I have heard it said many times by smokers that they are only hurting themselves. I am here to say, not so. I witnessed a dear family member fight and loose a battle with lung cancer. Her death was very painful and very slow coming and I for one prayed for it to come sooner.
Not only did this process hurt my family, it hurt her husband and her children and her grandchildren and many others and many others. I will not even begin to estimate what her treatment and care cost before she became palliative.

I also know that at one time she thought her choice only hurt herself.

I am glad that she had health care til her final struggled breath.

She was 58 when she passed.

So things like heart disease is Ok
from overeating the bad food that is a part of our daily diet
because chances are a stroke or heart attack will likely kill the person quicker so they don't suffer?

Next time when you take a loved one through the drive-thru and get them that juicy, yummy , heart attack on a bun (even if years later)
Remember
it was the choices made through out life that contributes to ones death.
Not just smoking.

At least maybe theses ones won't have painful deaths.