Who is considering solar?

[RancheroMan]

Anyone here from Sask that takes part in Sask Power's Net Metering program? I am wondering if they only give you a Kilowatt credit or is it a total bill credit (i.e will also cover transmission fee ect)?

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by traderal

As said above, great for RV or remote cabin, or emergency power for lights and furnace motor. Cheaper though to use a backup generator. Technology is changing fast and todays solar panels will be old tech in a few years. If payback is 20 to 25 years you will be changing out hardware many times over that time and never get out of the hole you are digging yourself into. One option is to have solar feeding into batteries and then into the grid. Another option is to use special inverters and feed directly into the grid, however when the line power goes down your solar feed into the grid is also stopped so you can't even use it for your home. To maximize efficiency you also need solar trackers which are expensive. Lots of maintenance and over time the thrill of it all will become a headache. Also municipalities will tax you on this as a home upgrade. I use solar on my RV but will stick to a generator as backup for the home. If a lengthy power outage is due to some natural disaster then not even solar will be able to handle the power requirements. And yes a 25% rebate will usually mean a similar jump in prices charged. Anytime the government gets involved in anything it always leads to a complete #$&***up.

Feeding back into grid is a heckuva good idea except your still going to pay the outrageous service charges. I don't find the rate charged for power is that terribly bad but the line usage and other bs charges is very upsetting.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Jays toyz

We will be building soon and I just got an estimate for connecting to the grid, but wanted to use a large solar array for the first few years as we won't be living there in the winter and tie into the grid after.

Sounds like a perfect situation for a Tesla power wall and solar panels. It would be interesting to compare the costs considering the price for batteries is dropping like a rock.

[jstubbs]

Stuff like this just doesn't make any sense in my mind for Alberta. In late December we get what, 7 and 1/2 hours of sunlight? And that's if it's actually sunny that day. Then the issues of snow covering panels and it more seems like a novelty for those who can afford the upfront cost than anything.

In sunny, equator regions where they're getting plenty of steady sunshine everyday, solar energy makes all the sense in the world. I like the idea of trying to use more renewable energy sources, but come on, it's Alberta, why can't we be realistic about this and admit solar energy is a very niche concept and not particularly well suited for our location?

[Goncutn]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Definitely looking at having panels installed in Calgary when they finally get the particulars of the plan put together. If they do this well it will put a lot of guys to work installing and selling product.

What area of the province are you in? The best rate I could get back in early November was .059 cents per KWH from Atco. I'm also on a farm in Southern Alberta. Thanks

EDIT, I was trying to quote the post with the power bill.

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Goncutn

What area of the province are you in? The best rate I could get back in early November was .059 cents per KWH from Atco. I'm also on a farm in Southern Alberta. Thanks

EDIT, I was trying to quote the post with the power bill.

I'm looking at a full south facing bungalow in southwest (Haysboro) Calgary. I'm looking at from various points of view with one being increasing resale value for the property.

[dcf]

Germany is the global leader in solar energy. Compared to Alberta (and Canada), Germany has less than 1/2 of the solar energy "Potential". Solar is going to become the biggest supplier of electricity in the near future. Compare prices of solar systems to even two years ago, there is a huge price drop.

Those who do not believe or are not willing to learn about new technology need to get up to speed on the global issues, and not just what Alberta the oil province is doing/should be doing. We have to be a leader.

[ak-71]

Originally Posted by dcf

Germany is the global leader in solar energy. Compared to Alberta (and Canada), Germany has less than 1/2 of the solar energy "Potential". Solar is going to become the biggest supplier of electricity in the near future. Compare prices of solar systems to even two years ago, there is a huge price drop.

Those who do not believe or are not willing to learn about new technology need to get up to speed on the global issues, and not just what Alberta the oil province is doing/should be doing. We have to be a leader.

Doesn't Germany also have the second highest price per kWh for household and the most expensive for industry in EU?
Feeling good for being "green" at present time is a luxury, not an advance in technology. May be some time in a future, but not now

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by ak-71

Doesn't Germany also have the second highest price per kWh for household and the most expensive for industry in EU?
Feeling good for being "green" at present time is a luxury, not an advance in technology. May be some time in a future, but not now

There current price for gasoline is also $1.94 per liter just to put things in perspective.

[ak-71]

Originally Posted by Scott h

There current price for gasoline is also $1.94 per liter just to put things in perspective.

So? If you mean that other sources of energy naturally or by ideological penalties/taxes are prohibitively expensive in Germany (considering they banned nuclear), then I can see reasons for going to less efficient forms, but what does it have to do with Alberta?
PS. Funny that they are OK with buying electricity from French nuclear stations, just another example of ideology screwing with markets.

[FCLightning]

Originally Posted by dcf

Compare prices of solar systems to even two years ago, there is a huge price drop.

That is a rumor I heard recently as well so I checked. I have price quotes from 3 years ago and from 4 months ago from two different companies. The price is the same on all four quotes.

[ak-71]

One sad thing is that prices are meaningless ones market is screwed up by ideology. Some players are heavily taxed, others are subsidized. Inefficiently produced energy still cost everybody more in one way or another.

[WHMS]

Here's a link to some info on the solar rebate program.

https://www.efficiencyalberta.ca

Sign up for the residential no-charge energy savings program, free led light bulbs, shower head replacement and more apparently. We're paying for this already thanks to the fancy new carbon tax so might as well take advantage.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by CNP

My average electricity bill is roughly $65 a month. Here is my last monthly electricity bill. $74. Actual electricity used is $11. Fees are $63. If I consumed $0 in electricity I would still pay the fees. How would I ever recoup my expenses for going solar on saving $11 a month?

If you did it, you'd have to unplug from the grid so you don't pay the fees. There is no point in doing it if your going to stay connected (unless your going to over produce $76/month, but I think that is unlikely). So, lets say you live another 20 years, can you get a decent system for around $20k, minus 30% of course? I doubt it.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Goncutn

What area of the province are you in? The best rate I could get back in early November was .059 cents per KWH from Atco. I'm also on a farm in Southern Alberta. Thanks

EDIT, I was trying to quote the post with the power bill.

Crowsnest Pass. No contract. I've never had a contract with an energy provider. Regulated rates have always been more economical for me.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by Trochu

If you did it, you'd have to unplug from the grid so you don't pay the fees. There is no point in doing it if your going to stay connected (unless your going to over produce $76/month, but I think that is unlikely). So, lets say you live another 20 years, can you get a decent system for around $20k, minus 30% of course? I doubt it.

I answered my own question in my post. There is no savings for anyone going solar if they are already on the grid and stay on the grid. And.........I believe you must be on the grid in order to qualify for any grants. There won't be any long cues for government subsidies on residential solar systems...........the cost and return should scare people away. It's an unsightly system that does not work in this time.............give it another decade or two or three.

[CNP]

Originally Posted by dcf

Germany is the global leader in solar energy. Compared to Alberta (and Canada), Germany has less than 1/2 of the solar energy "Potential". Solar is going to become the biggest supplier of electricity in the near future. Compare prices of solar systems to even two years ago, there is a huge price drop.

Those who do not believe or are not willing to learn about new technology need to get up to speed on the global issues, and not just what Alberta the oil province is doing/should be doing. We have to be a leader.

Provide a ref where solar is going to be the biggest supplier of electricity in AB, in Canada..................in any future. We live in AB, in Canada, why do "We" have to be a world leader in stuff that isn't compatible with our daily life. "We", as you call us, are not the global leaders that spin this stuff. "We" get by with what we know and let the global leaders spin stuff up like solar energy and at the same time cut off our 2nd largest producer of energy (coal), without a viable alternative in place.

Those who do not believe are realists. I'm not reading more into the technology that is there right now. Not going to crystal ball anything either. Solar is not capable of providing the residential energy that we are accustomed too at an affordable cost. If you're on the grid you won't save.

It's all good for off-grid minimalists but for city folk dependant upon 240 volts and natural gas.........they have no idea what that looks like........they just like the feel.

Give it a few decades...............maybe things will change.

[hal53]

Originally Posted by WHMS

Here's a link to some info on the solar rebate program.

https://www.efficiencyalberta.ca

Sign up for the residential no-charge energy savings program, free led light bulbs, shower head replacement and more apparently. We're paying for this already thanks to the fancy new carbon tax so might as well take advantage.

Yup...and your Gov't. has hired an Ontario company to come in your house and change the light bulbs for you....ain't it great that the Gov't. has so much extra money laying around?...

[Drewski Canuck]

The reason Germany is / was the leader in Solar Energy systems is that the Government bought it for the Germans.

In the area around the Lake of Constance, almost all rural barns have south facing solar arrays. The trick is that they buy from the grid for regular price, but they sell to the grid for a huge markup. The markup is the way the Government encouraged the installation of the equipment that the Germans were producing.

THEN came along the Chinese after the patents were off, and dropped the price by more than 60 %. All the German manufacturers were broke within a year.

The NEW Panel design works in the Ultra Violet spectrum as well, so low light is not such a big problem any more.

But for Alberta, there is another source of renewable energy under our feet. Every old casing and well bore can be used for Geothermal. The gains in temperature at 2000 meters and deeper are pretty substantial. Most of our old fields are in this depth range or more. This is something that is now under development, and will probably be a lot more cost effective than solar or wind power.

Drewski

[Trochu]

Government implements taxes on Chinese solar panels upwards of 200%.

Government provides rebates to citizens because the cost of solar panels are so high.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by hal53

Yup...and your Gov't. has hired an Ontario company to come in your house and change the light bulbs for you....ain't it great that the Gov't. has so much extra money laying around?...

Hmmm, might be an answer to the eternal question...."How many people from the government does it take to change a lightbulb?" Looking forward to the ensuing studies, committee meetings and court cases to get the answer.

(I'm guessing we're up to a couple hundred people so far, before any lightbulbs have been touched)

[JustMe]

I think you are right, that while solar will eventually save you money, it'll take a long, long time to realize those savings. It's right up there with waterless water heaters. According to the attached, those will take you 70+ years before you realize any savings after capital expenses... I expect sufficient solar panels will probably be a like in terms of time. It's like buying am electric car for $40,000 and saving $500 a year in fuel costs.... It'll take a long, long time before you come out ahead.

Originally Posted by rugatika

If the NDP want people to adopt solar they need to jack the electricity rates way up.

Saving 20 bucks a month will take close to forever to pay off. And solar panels don't last forever...they eventually need to be disposed of...which is a whole other problem.

[Albertadiver]

I have solar on my RV. My father sells solar packages for off grid / RV type installations.

I would never waste money on it at my home. Will never pay for itself, and to get the same level of power and reliability to run a home makes it incredibly expensive.

More smoke and mirrors from the greenies, not to mention expensive.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by JustMe

I think you are right, that while solar will eventually save you money, it'll take a long, long time to realize those savings. It's right up there with waterless water heaters. According to the attached, those will take you 70+ years before you realize any savings after capital expenses... I expect sufficient solar panels will probably be a like in terms of time. It's like buying am electric car for $40,000 and saving $500 a year in fuel costs.... It'll take a long, long time before you come out ahead.

That is a great comparison. I have never like the idea of not having any stored hot water.

[ak-71]

Originally Posted by JustMe

I think you are right, that while solar will eventually save you money, it'll take a long, long time to realize those savings. It's right up there with waterless water heaters. According to the attached, those will take you 70+ years before you realize any savings after capital expenses... I expect sufficient solar panels will probably be a like in terms of time. It's like buying am electric car for $40,000 and saving $500 a year in fuel costs.... It'll take a long, long time before you come out ahead.

And if solar system kicks the barrel this "long time" becomes "never".
Let's not forget, that we as a society also need to somehow pay for a 100% reliable backup - it may be "never" from a start.
As a net these solar subsidies are still a drain on a system, even if they benefit a homeowner as they did in Germany

[shortaction]

Originally Posted by JustMe

I think you are right, that while solar will eventually save you money, it'll take a long, long time to realize those savings. It's right up there with waterless water heaters. According to the attached, those will take you 70+ years before you realize any savings after capital expenses... I expect sufficient solar panels will probably be a like in terms of time. It's like buying am electric car for $40,000 and saving $500 a year in fuel costs.... It'll take a long, long time before you come out ahead.

I must be missing something with the math on this one. $4,000.00 subtract $1,300.00 equals $2,700.00 divided by $121 works out to 22.3 years? How are they getting 71 years?

[does it ALL outdoors]

Interesting read.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/02..._14636622.html

[shortaction]

Originally Posted by CNP

Provide a ref where solar is going to be the biggest supplier of electricity in AB, in Canada..................in any future. We live in AB, in Canada, why do "We" have to be a world leader in stuff that isn't compatible with our daily life. "We", as you call us, are not the global leaders that spin this stuff. "We" get by with what we know and let the global leaders spin stuff up like solar energy and at the same time cut off our 2nd largest producer of energy (coal), without a viable alternative in place.

Those who do not believe are realists. I'm not reading more into the technology that is there right now. Not going to crystal ball anything either. Solar is not capable of providing the residential energy that we are accustomed too at an affordable cost. If you're on the grid you won't save.

It's all good for off-grid minimalists but for city folk dependant upon 240 volts and natural gas.........they have no idea what that looks like........they just like the
feel.

Give it a few decades...............maybe things will change.

240volt solar systems are quite the norm. Several companies make 240 Volt inverters and most of them can be stacked to accommodate most power needs. There are even 3 phase 600Volt systems available if required.

Given the hydro rates in Alberta it would take a really sharp pencil and a very long sheet of paper to find any savings with solar. But you can live "normally" on solar.

My wife and I are not minimalist by a long stretch but we live in a location that is completely off grid, maintained road but no hydro, telephone or natural gas. We run a normal home with washer and propane dryer, microwave, coffee machine, toaster, electric fridge, propane stove/range, propane direct vent wall furnace in the house and shop, propane hot water on demand, water pump, full water filtration system with UV light, internet, tv, dehumidifier, computers, etc. In the shop my 3 main tools table saw, jointer & bandsaw all run on 240 volt, rest of the outlets are 20 amp 120volt. I plug my tractor in when I need too as well. I don't use any 240 volt appliances in the house but I had a 240 plug installed at both the dryer and stove/range locations in case we every decided to go that route in the future.

We have 5300 watts of panels (20 @ 265 watts) and a 5500 watt backup generator (gas, honda) that is set up on an automatic start (comes on when the batteries reach a preset D.O.D. depth of discharge) it has not come on to charge the batteries since late January when I installed it.

I spent about $30,000.00 on my system and approximately $10,000.00 was for the batteries and battery associated equipment which wouldn't be required for a grid tied system. I would average around 20kw/ day production on a yearly basis. My panels are on elevation adjustable stands (30/45/60degree) so I gain about 13-15% over stationary stands. I did not opt for the tracking stands as the cost and maintenance was prohibitive. I live at 45 degrees51'35"N - 82 degrees30'48" in Northern Ontario so you can compare your sun hours to this location. That will give some a few real life figures to work with if they are contemplating the solar incentive. If some of you are interested make sure you find a very competent retailer/installer, my experience was that about 80% of the solar businesses are inept or tried to shamelessly up sell, so shop carefully.

At least your government isn't offering to buying renewable energy at $.80/kwh like my financially compromised government has and driven the energy prices through the roof! I do not miss the Ontario hydro bill!

Heres hoping things pickup in Alberta very soon!!