Got my first Cow Elk today

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here is a pic of the damage the first shot had done. Second shot was a head shot.

Holy crap, that’s some serious carnage there Kurt.

I’m really not all that surprised by the results given the bullet choice and the shot placement.

I wasn’t in the Berger fan club for exactly what this outcome was.

Glad you tracked her down, and hopefully you’ve had some sort of an epiphany from this event.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Holy crap, that’s some serious carnage there Kurt.

I’m really not all that surprised by the results given the bullet choice and the shot placement.

I wasn’t in the Berger fan club for exactly what this outcome was.

Glad you tracked her down, and hopefully you’ve had some sort of an epiphany from this event.

Lol, I certainly have. It’s so had to fathom the resilience elk have, they truly are the toughest animal in North America imo.

[blueice123]

Nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by JDK71

nice work that is a crazy looking quad

Ya, it’s a monster, I just bought it done up like that. A little more than I was looking for but it’s done up right. Could barely tell there was an elk hooked up.

[AB2506]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Here is a pic of the damage the first shot had done. Second shot was a head shot.

Very reminiscent of the damage the first Ballistic Tips did in the 1980s, on deer. Saw deer get knocked down, and then run almost as if they were uninjured. When finally tracked down and finished, the wounds were found to be massive, but shallow.

Didn't take long to try something different. It is said that the new Ballistic Tips are very much better (the jackets were make much thicker several years ago), but I find I cannot bring myself to trust them.

[TBark]

Good job Kurt,
I’m still seeking my Jan cow, back at ‘er next Sun til Weds closer.
162 ELDX is what I’m using for my 7mm RM.

On the VLD, I have 20 loaded from 69 - 71.5 gr of Retumbo.
Was going to try them soon for groups.
I think I’ll pull them all now and load more ELDX.

TBark

[Tronneroi]

Congrats on getting your cow, Kurt.

I might have to re-think my choice for VLD's in my .308

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I’m not sure what the snow is like there but we haven’t had any fresh snow in an awful long time so finding fresh sign is tough, and tracking can be tough. Just a heads up.

Thanks for heads up but I am fairly lucky to have 4 farmers and a Hutterite colony doing all the scouting this week before I arrive. Normally they are really good to me but they are all going above and beyond because it is for my nephew. Really great people in that area.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Tronneroi

Congrats on getting your cow, Kurt.

I might have to re-think my choice for VLD's in my .308

I would agree. I am not a Berger fan, or a fan of any other thin skinned explosive/frangible target bullet for hunting. Use them to punch paper, get some TTSX for shooting game. Heck even cheap cup and core Hornady Interbonds and Interlocks do a much better job than those Bergers. I always want an exit hole.

[heretohunt]

Congrats on the elk Kurt.
This worries me. I use the same setup with 7 mag and 168 Berger’s.
I naturally tend to stay away from the shoulder because I’m a bow hunter but those high shoulder shots look good on those hunting shows. It looks like that’s where you placed it too?
By the way it looks like you made a great hunt out of it. Quite a few guys make a hillbilly hunt out of the late season cow hunt here.
Again congratulations. Enjoy.

[Gifted Intuitive]

I started hunting elk with a 308 Win and realized it took two hits to deliver sufficient shock to immobilize them. After two incidents where I could not get a second shot I decided I needed a more powerful cartridge. I decided on a 340 Weatherby. The 340 was a major improvement but I had Kurt's experience where they were seriously wounded but could still travel up to 300 yds. At the final expiry location they would be in the thickest, tangled up crap that took hours to get to.
I was at the Calgary Gun Show and this finely crafted firearm caught my attention. I spoke with the seller and he said the rifle was built by Marsh Evanouff (exact spelling forgotten) and the cartridge was a 375 Mashburn Long. When I saw the cartridge, I immediately thought this is the medicine that will deliver hydrostatic, drop-dead shock. But, the gun and reloading equipment was $5000 and this was about 30 years ago. For some reason we exchanged information. About a year later I got a call from this fellow and he said I was the only person that showed a passionate interest in the gun and could we work something out. We did.
It didn't delivery 'drop-dead' shock every time but no animal travelled more than 100 yds.

[Dean2]

The LEGEND off invincible Elk is pure nonsense. I have shot an elk pretty much every year for the last 45 years. I have never tracked one I shot myself more than 40 yards. I have shot them with 375 H, 45 70, 38 55, 7 rem mag, 7 Rum, 300 Win Mag and 308. The last 15 years all but 2 were shot with my NULA in 308. No matter what I shot them with it has never taken more than one shot to put them down and the odd extra shot to the head when I walked up to finish them off. Bullets have all been Barnes or Hornady cup and core Interbond or Interlocks. Elk are not some magically immune Unicorn that absorbs endless punishment. Hit them right with a bullet that holds together and penetrates and they pretty much die where u shoot them.

P.S. This is not a comment on what Kurt posted, merely a response to some of the follow up posts.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

168gr

Nice recovery Kurt.

I had a similar shot this year. 380yds broadside. Bullet went through the scapula and rattled around with no exit. Cow stood still for 10 minutes before tilting over.
180gr TTSX Barnes (3006)

[7magtime]

Congrats and kudos to you Kurt for following up and getting your first elk, you worked for it!

It's good for people to see on game results for bullets, especially if they're currently using them or might be thinking of switching to them. I almost went with the same Berger bullet you used in my 7mm Rem Mag years ago but decided to go with 160 grain Accubonds instead. I've shot multiple deer, an antelope and a few moose/elk with them and I have zero complaints on their field performance on big game. Only ever found a couple bullets in elk/moose as they penetrate very well, the bullets expanded nicely as advertised. If I wasn't using the Accubonds, the partition or TTSX mentioned would be my other choices.
The elk I took this year only went 20 yards....

[spoiledsaskhunter]

Originally Posted by AB2506

Very reminiscent of the damage the first Ballistic Tips did in the 1980s, on deer. Saw deer get knocked down, and then run almost as if they were uninjured. When finally tracked down and finished, the wounds were found to be massive, but shallow.

Didn't take long to try something different. It is said that the new Ballistic Tips are very much better (the jackets were make much thicker several years ago), but I find I cannot bring myself to trust them.

........didn't realize the ballistic tips ever had a bad rep, so loaded some for my .270. couple years ago shot a bull elk @ about 300 yds and found the b/t under the hide on the off side.......sure glad they improved that bullet, 'cause it did a really good job for me.

[Jamie Black R/T]

Hey I know that spot!! lol

Good job sticking with it. **** happens....not enough guys would put the time in to finish what they started.

We are headed up to try to put down a couple this weekend...hope for the same chance...but shooting accubonds

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

Shot placement was pretty much perfect, bullet construction seems weak, but the bone was destroyed, and that’s a pretty big bone. If my shot was a couple inches to the left when I shot I'm sure I would have gotten both lungs. Not sure if I’ll continue to use these bullets on elk or moose just yet.

Did you recover the bullet ? Would be interesting to see if penetration was limited by bullet design or velocity. Did the bullet retain enough weight to penetrate further if it had more energy ? I have tested many factory loads and even match ammo can have a 10 % (+/-) variance in velocity.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

Did you recover the bullet ? Would be interesting to see if penetration was limited by bullet design or velocity. Did the bullet retain enough weight to penetrate further if it had more energy ? I have tested many factory loads and even match ammo can have a 10 % (+/-) variance in velocity.

If you have ammo with over 500 fps variation in velocity you have some seriously crappy ammo. Even half that much is way out of spec. From the pictures posted and Kurt's description it is pretty clear the bullet failed to penetrated because it blew up on the bone. Not at all unusual for Berger bullets.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dean2

If you have ammo with over 500 fps variation in velocity you have some seriously crappy ammo. Even half that much is way out of spec. From the pictures posted and Kurt's description it is pretty clear the bullet failed to penetrated because it blew up on the bone. Not at all unusual for Berger bullets.

Ya, the bullet disintegrated on impact. I’ll be cutting up the elk this week, if I find it I’ll post it.

[Gifted Intuitive]

Originally Posted by Dean2

If you have ammo with over 500 fps variation in velocity you have some seriously crappy ammo. Even half that much is way out of spec. From the pictures posted and Kurt's description it is pretty clear the bullet failed to penetrated because it blew up on the bone. Not at all unusual for Berger bullets.

The 500 fps is made in reference to a 10% variance in velocity in factory ammunition. This comment is dangerous and can result in serious injury. This comment states ammunition can be loaded to achieve a velocity 5,000 fps. How you can conclude that a 10 per cent velocity variance of any cartridge can cause a 500 feet-per-second variance in velocity is not just a simple math error, it can result in serious injury.
When your mathematical aptitude does not conclude that 10% is 1/10th and 500 is 1/10th of 5000 you are dispelling dangerous information.
In the reference book “Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading” is a caution in page 83 under the heading “DON’T START WITH MAXIMUM LOADS”. In the paragraph that follows it states” Start with loads say, 10% below the maximum listed and work up.” I would recommend a refresher course in basic arithmetic fractions for your safety and others.

[Big Lou]

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

The 500 fps is made in reference to a 10% variance in velocity in factory ammunition. This comment is dangerous and can result in serious injury. This comment states ammunition can be loaded to achieve a velocity 5,000 fps. How you can conclude that a 10 per cent velocity variance of any cartridge can cause a 500 feet-per-second variance in velocity is not just a simple math error, it can result in serious injury.
When your mathematical aptitude does not conclude that 10% is 1/10th and 500 is 1/10th of 5000 you are dispelling dangerous information.
In the reference book “Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading” is a caution in page 83 under the heading “DON’T START WITH MAXIMUM LOADS”. In the paragraph that follows it states” Start with loads say, 10% below the maximum listed and work up.” I would recommend a refresher course in basic arithmetic fractions for your safety and others.

I would recommend you get your head out of your own butt and re-read what u posted which was 10 % (+/- ) variation. On 2500 fps that is 2250 to 2750 fps or 500 fps. Actually seeing 50 FPS difference on either side would be extremely rare and represent an ES on the outer edge of acceptable. Since most hunting rounds are quite a bit faster than 2500 fps, it is actually on the conservative side. Talk about needing to brush up on your math skills.

By the way, your grammar skills need some work too. It is not "dispelling dangerous information" which actually means to get rid of dangerous or wrong information, what you should have said is "dispensing dangerous information".

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by Gifted Intuitive

The 500 fps is made in reference to a 10% variance in velocity in factory ammunition. This comment is dangerous and can result in serious injury. This comment states ammunition can be loaded to achieve a velocity 5,000 fps. How you can conclude that a 10 per cent velocity variance of any cartridge can cause a 500 feet-per-second variance in velocity is not just a simple math error, it can result in serious injury.
When your mathematical aptitude does not conclude that 10% is 1/10th and 500 is 1/10th of 5000 you are dispelling dangerous information.
In the reference book “Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading” is a caution in page 83 under the heading “DON’T START WITH MAXIMUM LOADS”. In the paragraph that follows it states” Start with loads say, 10% below the maximum listed and work up.” I would recommend a refresher course in basic arithmetic fractions for your safety and others.

I’d say what’s misleading is your user name...

[Gifted Intuitive]

I said…”even match ammo can have a 10 % (+/-) variance in velocity “
Response “ if you have ammo with over a 500 fps variation in velocity you have some seriously crappy ammo “ Notice how “variance” was changed to “variation”. The word ‘variance’ especially in this context refers to the difference a number in a group of numbers can differ from the average of the group. The words ‘can have’ implies a rare occurrence or what is called an ‘outlier’. Bullet velocity can be affected by primer or powder inconsistency.
I was told ..’you should get your head out of your butt and re-read what you posted which was a 10 % (+/-) variation. Notice I said ‘variance’ and the word is changed to ‘variation’. Then it was said ‘Actually a 50 FPS difference on either side would be extremely rare and represent an ES…’
Again, I’m talking about ‘outliers’ maybe a 1/1000 occurrence and the discussion is shifted to a 1/box or 1/magazine.
I questioned the 500 fps and it was justified by picking a velocity of 2500 fps. Why does (+/-) mean 50/50 or 1/2 . If cartridges can have a 500 fps velocity over a recommenced velocity, serious problems can result.
Then it was mentioned ‘By the way your grammar skills need some work too. I said ‘dispelling’ and the word ‘dispensing’ was recommended. But that’s not the bestest word ‘ disseminating’ is a ‘bestter yet’ word.
So if you have more friends the do not have the ‘Gift’ or ‘Intuition’ to gain any “Positive Traction’ from this discussion so as to disseminate their rudeness, dumbness, etc., their likeness and affiliations should be dispelled and not dispensed.

[DiabeticKripple]

Dean2 is right, you are wrong.

[Kurt505]

From the bush to the smoker, 20lbs of jerky going in the smoker today boys!

[58thecat]

Ohhh boy that looks great!!!!!
Did you find the bullet or what was left of it?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Ohhh boy that looks great!!!!!
Did you find the bullet or what was left of it?

Nope, it was a dogs breakfast in there. The upper leg bone was shattered like it had exploded and there was bone fragments and bloodshot gel everywhere. I couldn’t tell a bone fragment from a piece of shrapnel.

[Kurt505]

6 racks of jerky and still have half a tub of meat left. It’s gonna be a 2 batch night.

[1899b]

Great thread. Congrats buddy...