Pike on the Fly

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by scel

While it certainly has its purpose, a trout set is almost a bad habit if you are fishing for pike, bass, or bonefish (for example).

Good point. I've fished for bones before with the strip set but probably wouldn't have thought of using it on pike. Thanks for the detailed response.

[gs100bert]

Originally Posted by LMS

Your 8 is lots of rod, I would just use a 5' 20lb Maxima leader and then a foot of bite wire or 30/40 lb Flouro to the fly. Try slave lake if you get a chance, if camping there are a lot of good pike lakes in southern ab as well.

Would you care to mention them ? other than keho i have not heard of them and i live in sw ab but fish mostly trout in the rivers .

[jgib01]

Originally Posted by gs100bert

Would you care to mention them ? other than keho i have not heard of them and i live in sw ab but fish mostly trout in the rivers .

I haven't ventured too far from home looking for them, but pretty much anything that is touched by our irrigation system is going to have pike in it (including our urban ponds in Lethbridge). I know folks even fish the canals, hence their inclusion in the fishing regulations.

[The Fisherman Guy]

Originally Posted by scel

I do almost all my fishing from a pontoon/canoe/kayak. I started with tapered leaders but I found no benefit without being able to stand up to cast. In a personal watercraft (especially in a canoe), there is no 'fighting' the wind. In the shield lakes in Sask, there is almost always a way to tuck in out of the wind. With a 25km/h wind, it is very difficult to paddle a canoe solo across open water (unless travelling in the direction of the wind). So I have not faced the issue of the wind very often.

Over the last couple of years, my double haul has improved dramatically. Again, fishing with my butt at water level, it is the most critical tool in the casting repertoire. I think that my casting is good enough now that I very well could see an improvement by using a tapered leader.

Seated casting isn't easy by any means, let alone double hauling while seated - becoming proficient at it, that is impressive. Everyone has a bit of a different setup, what matters is you are getting out there and fishing and making it work.

Guiding fly fishermen in northern SK for trophy Pike is a blast, and has taught me a great deal about ol' Esox, especially at an industry leading lodge with a strong crew of other guides who help each other out. The system I mentioned earler is what I use when guiding, and it works for me and my guests.

Main thing to consider; are you wanting to target a lot of fish, or specifically big fish? You can get away with a lot of you just want to catch some Pike. If you want to consistently catch 40in+ fish, additional tactics will increase your success rate. The best tactic in doing so, is location followed closely by presentation.

Get out there right at ice off or on the opener, sight fishing monster Pike in the spring shallows is one rarely explored style of fly fishing.

[Flight01]

I use intermediate line. 9wt rod. Let it sink a bit. 90% of my fishing is with a weighted "chuck and duck" and I use pre made toothy critter leader. 40lb mono would be fine too. Catch a few on black or olive wooly buggers . Always change up my retrieval to see what's working. I have had little success on dry flies but am still working on it. I have found a few good places and have indeed done some sight fishing for pike but still mostly on sinking set ups.

[scel]

Originally Posted by The Fisherman Guy

Negative.

There definitely is a benefit to a tapered leader when throwing big meat for Pike - casting distance and accuracy. Tapered leaders cast more accurately and farther, especially when battling wind. Double Uni knot staged from 40-20 fluoro then surgeons to leader material is what works best.

For tying to the fly, I prefer to not use snaps as they tangle easily and are prone to failure. I use a knot called "knot again" which is basically a modified Indicator loop, with an extra overhand knot on the tag end to eliminate slippage. This creates a small loop for the fly, giving it more action on the retrieve.

While it is easier to fool a Pike with a fly than gear, presentation is still exceptionally important for getting those large fish to commit to a strike. You will need to figure out what they want, sometimes it is a rapid erratic presentation, others very slow with several long dramatic pauses.

As for rods, 9-10 wt is best unless you are fishing for small Pike with trout flies. As was said above, most Pike flies are large with big hooks. You will need to be able to cast them effectively, and fight a big fish if it takes.

You will need be reasonably efficient at the double haul, especially when casting into the wind. This is where premium fly line really shines.

As was suggested, a pair of jaw spreaders and hook-outs work wonders at removing flies quickly and efficiently. Definitely invest in a pair, tie them together, so you are less likely to lose one or the other overboard.

RISE FROM THE DEAD, THREAD.

Necromancy complete!

Anyway, I have eagerly awaited all winter to test out The Fisherman Guy's leader theory. Yesterday, I was hoping for a better day weatherwise, but it was the perfect day to test out different leaders. With 40-60 kmh wind gusts, it was an extreme day for any type of fishing, but especially fly fishing.

I have an 8 weight saltwater fly rod. I was casting a 6" pike bunny. I know 9wt or 10wt are a little better. I feel like my 8wt Sage Motive performs as well as my friends 9wt St Croix imperial simply because of the lower swing weight. Out of the gates, hard to tell the difference, but after 4 hours, the 8wt is a little nicer to cast. Anyway. I tested different leaders out. I used Rio Perception floating line. All the leaders were 7' in length.

Out of the gates, let me say this: all the leaders were capable of catching pike. The pike do not care. This really becomes an issue of the angler, not the fish.

The Leaders:
A. 40lb fluoro leader material (6') -> knot2kinky (1')
B. 25lb fluoro leader material (6') -> knot2kinky (1')
C. 40lb fluoro leader material (3') -> 25lb fluoro leader material (3') -> knot2kinky (1')
D. 40lb fluoro leader material (3') -> 20lb fluoro leader material (3') -> knot2kinky (1')

Test conditions: Cast each leader 30 times. Try to gauge distance, accuracy, line turnover. Test how I "feel"

Known potential error in measurements: pretty much everything. "feel" is not a measurement. I know these tests lack true scientific rigor (I am an actual real-life scientist), but they gave me empirical evidence the leader can make a difference.

I know there are many permutations, but I did not have the time. Leader material were joined with double uni and bite tippet with an albright knot.

My ranking system in very windy conditions are:
C > D > A > B

So, my favourite leader system is 40lb fluoro leader material (3') -> 25lb fluoro leader material (3') -> knot2kinky (1'). I found the stiffness of the 25lb fluoro to turn over a little better than the 20lb fluoro. I bet a 10wt rod would probably neutralize this difference. Gusting wind conditions do not make this test entirely accuracte. However, both C and D definitely were way better than A and B with at least a 20% difference in cast power and accuracy.

I would say that both C and D could result in more fish being caught simply because I can more easily and methodically cover more water. In non-windy conditions, I would predict that all leaders would perform equally well, unless you were sight casting, which I could easily see the tapered leader to give an edge in accuracy. Even a 2 stage taper noticeably turns over better.

Given the difference in time and money to make a tapered leader. For all my floating lines, I will be using tapered leaders from now on. It takes about 2 minutes longer to make the tapered leader. The only cost difference is the investment into a couple spools of fluoro leader material. This is not an insignificant initial investment because fluoro leader material is not cheap, but it does not degrade and since I was using smaller amounts of the heavier fluoro, it is overall cheaper per leader.

For a shorter leader for a sink tip or intermediate line, I cannot see any benefit to tapered leader. I am heading to northern Saskatchewan at the end of this month. I will test the differences there. I will be missing ice off by a couple of weeks. The pike are still relatively in the shallows, but prefer an intermediate line to fish more accurately around structure.

[Off in the Bushes]

Great stuff there, I personally would not use 40lbs and then wire, depending on the wire rating I guess, as I think that you need a sacifical piece so that you don't destroy your fly line loop if you get snagged up.

[scel]

Originally Posted by Off in the Bushes

Great stuff there, I personally would not use 40lbs and then wire, depending on the wire rating I guess, as I think that you need a sacifical piece so that you don't destroy your fly line loop if you get snagged up.

Totally correct. The breakpoint is the 20lb Size 1 Mustad Fastach Clip at the end of the bite tippet. When it breaks, I can salvage the rest of the leader. I have certainly lost enough flies to the shield lakes to know it works.

[scel]

Originally Posted by scel

Totally correct. The breakpoint is the 20lb Size 1 Mustad Fastach Clip at the end of the bite tippet. When it breaks, I can salvage the rest of the leader. I have certainly lost enough flies to the shield lakes to know it works.

EDIT: The Size 1 has a break strength of 25lbs. I honestly think it is less than 25lbs. So many flies lost...

http://www.thefishinhole.com/index.c...oduct&se=28865

[The Flint&Fly Guy]

Can a guy substitute the flouro leader material with mono?

[DocMcgillicuddy]

Originally Posted by The Flint&Fly Guy

Can a guy substitute the flouro leader material with mono?

Absolutely. I use stiff mono and then wire. Flouro sinks quicker but I've had no issues with mono.

[scel]

Originally Posted by The Flint&Fly Guy

Can a guy substitute the flouro leader material with mono?

Absolutely. I would just use the leader material over the running line.

Fluoro has a couple of advantages. It is a little stiffer and has much less memory so I find it turns over a little nicer. Fluoro is also more abrasion resistant. Mono also degrades with UV exposure. So, if you use mono, it is probably a good idea to remake your leader every year. This is not a problem since mono is probably 1/5th the price of fluoro. Fluoro is also less visible than mono, but for pike, this is practically irrelevant.

[Pikecrazed]

Also make sure that your leader will break before your backing does. While it may not happen often if a big pike pulls you to your backing and that's what breaks you could be buying a new line.