Is a Crossbow More Bow or Gun?

[ishootbambi]

simple enough question. do you think a crossbow is closer to a gun in its characteristics and performance, or a bow?

[DJS]

I think anyone who knows anything about crossbows won't argue that they can shoot farther than a bow. But in their characteristics they shoot more like a gun. No draw, alot less movement when preparing for a shot, the abliity to shoot while looking through a scope, so on and so on......

[Huntwriter]

Is a Crossbow More Bow or Gun? A crossbow is definitely a bow. If anything we would have to ask; Is a gun more like a crossbow? The reason being that the crossbow has been in use in its basic shape and design for about 1,000 years before the gun has been invented. The crossbow has been in use at least as long as the longbow. There is archeological evidence that suggests that both bows have been invented around the same time but in different parts of the world.

As for performance compared to a modern compound. Both are about the same. A crossbow generally creates more speed but the arrows are much shorter than normal arrows. A shorter arrow, although it might fly further, quickly looses energy that is needed to kill an animal at any distance over 40 to 50 yards.

Has a crossbow advantages over a regular bow? Not really other than a device that holds the string back. From personal experience with compound, traditional and crossbow I would say that in many regards the crossbow has more disadvantages.

Maneuverability, or better the lack of it, is a considerable disadvantage and the reason why I use my crossbow only from treestands or ground blinds.

Weight is another disadvantage. Most crossbows weigh between 6 to 8 lbs.

A crossbow is a true one-shot weapon. No matter how fast you are there is no way that you can set the string and load another arrow as fast as you can on a traditional or compound bow should you need a second shot. I can nock a second arrow on my compound bow and be ready to shoot in less that 2 seconds if I have to, no way I can accomplish that even close with a crossbow.

Despite all this, it is my firm opinion, based on experience, that a crossbow is a valuable archery weapon and should have its rightful place in the bowhunting season. As I stated elsewhere, 30 years ago the same debates raged about compound bows when they came on the market. Many bowhunters back then feared that this "modern contraption" would be the doom of bowhunting and the bows with heavy lobbying from archery clubs were outlawed in many American states and Canadian provinces.

However, as we all know the compound bow made bowhuting popular beyond the wildest imaginations. Now bowhunting is once more in sharp decline and who knows the crossbow might just be the ticket to popularize it again. The market share of crossbows has North America wide gone up more than 60% over the past four years. That is good news as many new hunters, but also older hunters that would otherwise have to give up bowhunting, purchase now crossbows as more and more jurisdictions make them a legal hunting weapon for all hunters.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by DJS

No draw, alot less movement when preparing for a shot,

Actually I found that the amount of movement is about the same as with a regular bow. I can bring a compound or traditional bow slowly up and pull the string back at the same time, all in one smooth movement. It's one of the reasons why I keep a relatively low draw weight of 65 pounds. Shooting a crossbow I still have to bring it up and get in position too.

... the abliity to shoot while looking through a scope, so on and so on......

Again I find not much difference in aiming at a critter using sight pins or a scope. Besides where legal you can use scopes for compound bows too. All these devices do is to show me where the impact will be. But to get it to do that I still have to put diligent practice time in at the range to get proficient and properly sighted in.

[NBFK]

If there is no advantage with a cross bow why dosnt pope and young recognize it. I will continue to support the ABA in keeping them out of archery seasons. Once they are allowed there goes our general seasons. Harvest levels would increase greatly. My opinion buy a compound bow put time in like the other dedicated bow hunters.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by Huntwriter

Actually I found that the amount of movement is about the same as with a regular bow. I can bring a compound or traditional bow slowly up and pull the string back at the same time, all in one smooth movement. It's one of the reasons why I keep a relatively low draw weight of 65 pounds. Shooting a crossbow I still have to bring it up and get in position too.



Again I find not much difference in aiming at a critter using sight pins or a scope. Besides where legal you can use scopes for compound bows too. All these devices do is to show me where the impact will be. But to get it to do that I still have to put diligent practice time in at the range to get proficient and properly sighted in.

Come on, are you for real?? The more posts I read of yours the more I really start to question the "hunting expertise" you have previously talked about in the other thread. If you really have hunted with both weapons you know that the movement required to shoot a bow is far more than a crossbow. You could be in a kneeling postion with a crossbow on your knee and stay that way for a long time. In this same postion with a bow you could have the bow at the realy but you still have to draw which takes more movement than just bringing up a crossbow and sqeezing the triigger. I would even go so far as to say you could bring a cross bow up very very slowly with a whitetail looking directly at you and still get off a shot. No way in h--l would you do this with a bow.

Again, the practice time with each weapon is not even close. The average guy could not purchase a bow and in the same day be hunting it (even though I know this probably ahppens) but it's easily done with a crossbow. Just sight it in and away you go.
As for the scope vs pins, do you not agree that magnifying an animal with a scope is an advantage? Be serious.

[CNP]

Ridiculous poll and it has bias written all over it...

It's performance is that of a bow, it's characteristics are that of a firearm. The characteristcs require you to operate it as you would a firearm (you shoulder the xbow, sight down the rail (or scope), remove the safety and squeeze the trigger. It has a buttstock, a forestock, a rear and front sight mounted to the rail (or a scope), a safety and a trigger assembly. It has disadvantages and advantages over a bow. Advantage number one is that you don't need to know how to hunt with a bow......and number two is that you can shoot at anything that comes into view from your treestand without fear of being busted by drawing your bow. Like I said earlier.......almost guaranteed to kill anything that comes into view from your stand. For non-archers, since there is no archery season for bear, it's a great tool for killing bear over bait.

I've bow hunted for many years and I own an Excalibur Exomax crossbow. It's a great crossbow. From a treestand, a crossbow is by far a superior killing machine. If they were legal my tag to harvest percentage would be close to 100% (maybe 100%) on say moose, deer, elk and bear. Now those are some good odds. No wonder there are guys just itchin' to make this happen. Hunters (non-archers) calling other hunters (archers) greedy or selfish or other insulting names for not agreeing that xbows should be included in archery is just wrong. If it isn't wrong then I can say that hunters (non-archers) are just to lazy to take up bow hunting. It's not a season for archers....it's a season for hunters to take up a bow and go bowhunting. But then again some would rather complain year after year after year, never pick up a bow all that time, wear you down until the politicians give in and make it so. Doesn't that sound familiar in politics? Who wants nationally subsidized day-care? Who wants free medical? Who wants free education? Who wants free everything? (besides Jack Layton). People who want other people to pay their way want those things.

[DJS]

Originally Posted by ehntr

Ridiculous poll and it has bias written all over it...

It's performance is that of a bow, it's characteristics are that of a firearm. The characteristcs require you to operate it as you would a firearm (you shoulder the xbow, sight down the rail (or scope), remove the safety and squeeze the trigger. It has a buttstock, a forestock, a rear and front sight mounted to the rail (or a scope), a safety and a trigger assembly. It has disadvantages and advantages over a bow. Advantage number one is that you don't need to know how to hunt with a bow......and number two is that you can shoot at anything that comes into view from your treestand without fear of being busted by drawing your bow. Like I said earlier.......almost guaranteed to kill anything that comes into view from your stand. For non-archers, since there is no archery season for bear, it's a great tool for killing bear over bait.

I've bow hunted for many years and I own an Excalibur Exomax crossbow. It's a great crossbow. From a treestand, a crossbow is by far a superior killing machine. If they were legal my tag to harvest percentage would be close to 100% (maybe 100%) on say moose, deer, elk and bear. Now those are some good odds. No wonder there are guys just itchin' to make this happen. Hunters (non-archers) calling other hunters (archers) greedy or selfish or other insulting names for not agreeing that xbows should be included in archery is just wrong. If it isn't wrong then I can say that hunters (non-archers) are just to lazy to take up bow hunting. It's not a season for archers....it's a season for hunters to take up a bow and go bowhunting. But then again some would rather complain year after year after year, never pick up a bow all that time, wear you down until the politicians give in and make it so. Doesn't that sound familiar in politics? Who wants nationally subsidized day-care? Who wants free medical? Who wants free education? Who wants free everything? (besides Jack Layton). People who want other people to pay their way want those things.

Well said!

[NBFK]

Wow EHNTR you couldn't have put it better plus coming from someone with x bow experience! Glad there's voices of reason out there somewhere!

[pottymouth]

There is NO Right answer for this poll if your an advocate for Xbows not belonging in the Archery season.

The 1st and 3rd are similar answers worded differently !

I vote D

A xbow may have relatively similar characteristics of a bow , limbs, string and arrow tradjectory , but that where the similarity ends ! The rest of the characteristics and components come from the Gun !

[pottymouth]

1) Here is the definition of a bow straight from the Alberta Hunting Regulations.

Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head.

Xbows also have mechanical drawing devices, no muscle required

2) If Xbows and Bows are the same, Why is there an eligability permit required for handicap, amputee and injured archers on an annual basis from SRD. If they are the truely same they should be interchangeable in the arms of anyone, much like a gun and xbow are !!

3) If they are the same, I would challenge anyone to; pull back a bow, aim, and accurately arrow an animal while Lying flat on there belly, similar to a Xbow.

4) Bows #1)Do not have rest capabilities, #2) Require muscle strength to draw and release an arrow #3) Do not have a locking mechanism to hold the draw #4) Can not be fired with one hand #5) Major movement of 2 arms , chest and back are required to pull back the bow, seconds before trying to shoot an animal. The challenge of bowhunting. #6) Proficiency with a bow may take alot longer than a crossbow. A crossbow has a faster learning curve , about equal to a gun, to shoot.

[Rocks]

Doesn't matter. The current definition of archery equipment is good. Plus if you are determined to get into hunting, or only hunt with a crossbow you can, during all our general hunting seasons.

I still don't get why the guys who want crossbows added to archery season can't see that it will result in decreased hunter opportunity. Or maybe that's what they want, jealous of the bowhunters??

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by natural.born.fawn.killer

Once they are allowed there goes our general seasons.

i wont speak for everyone, but im am not calling fellow archers insulting names. the quote here is a very common feeling from bowhunters however and if that doesnt say greed, then how would you describe it? i dont mean to pick on NBFK, he's just the one who said it here. the sense of entitlement to general tags does show a little selfishness. sorry if that offends you.


also NBFK, P&Y once did not allow compound bow killed entries, and up until very recently had a letoff restriction on compound bows. that seems pretty silly now doesnt it?

[Rocks]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i wont speak for everyone, but im am not calling fellow archers insulting names. the quote here is a very common feeling from bowhunters however and if that doesnt say greed, then how would you describe it? i dont mean to pick on NBFK, he's just the one who said it here. the sense of entitlement to general tags does show a little selfishness. sorry if that offends you.


also NBFK, P&Y once did not allow compound bow killed entries, and up until very recently had a letoff restriction on compound bows. that seems pretty silly now doesnt it?

Ya but isn' that what the crossbow guys want, the access to general tags? But do they know if the xbow is allowed the general tags may disappear??

[ishootbambi]

i dont know what they want. i can only answer for myself. my opinion is that they were placed in the wrong category in the first place. they have pretty well identical practical range to a compound.....pretty well identical speeds.....and pretty well identical success rates everywhere they are currently allowed. seems to me that the same arguments seen on this are the same arguments when compounds were new.....too fast, too much range, letoff lets you hold it too long, so much easier to learn. if crossbows had been accepted at the same time compounds were we wouldnt be having this debate today. there are a ton of places that already allow them and the results are in. archers in those places arent on a widescale movement to ban them because they have seen that they have pretty well the same results that compounds do.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by DJS

If you really have hunted with both weapons you know that the movement required to shoot a bow is far more than a crossbow.

Maybe it is for you but for me it is not that big of a diference.

You could be in a kneeling postion with a crossbow on your knee and stay that way for a long time.

Most hunters find it very difficult to hold a crossbow in the ready to fire position for an extended length of time due to the relativey heavy weight of the weapon. I can hold a compound or my traditional bow much longer without fatigue. Whereas for the crossbow I require a rest to keep it steady on waiting periods that exceed more than three minutes. This in turn reduced considerably my mobility.

In this same postion with a bow you could have the bow at the realy but you still have to draw which takes more movement than just bringing up a crossbow and sqeezing the triigger.

If you have a moderate draw weight pulling the string slowly back -I do that as I raise bow - you can do that with very little movement. Having said that, as a guide I have seen many bowhunters that pulled 70+ pounds and resort do all sorts of gymnastics to come to full draw, especially in very cold weather.

I would even go so far as to say you could bring a cross bow up very very slowly with a whitetail looking directly at you and still get off a shot.

I tried that once and it didn't work, just like it doesn't work with a compound bow.

Again, the practice time with each weapon is not even close. The average guy could not purchase a bow and in the same day be hunting it (even though I know this probably ahppens) but it's easily done with a crossbow. Just sight it in and away you go.

I never said proficiency could be achieved in the same time with a compound as with a crossbow. However, there is no way that you can achieve proficiency with a crossbow in one day. It is statements like yours that give new and young hunters a false image of crossbows as a buy and hunt weapon. On the other hand a compound bow does not nearly require as much practice either as some make it out to be. Once a compound it sighted in, the bow and arrows are tuned it takes only a few days to get proficient. When compounds came first on the market that was one of the major complaints bowhunters had back then. "It's to easy" they said. That same argument we hear today about crossbows. I just don't get it what the degree of difficulty to become proficient with a weapon has to do with the subject. It's an issue that will puzzle me for ever. As far as I am concerned the easier something is to learn and the faster a hunter can get out in the field and hunt the better.

As for the scope vs pins, do you not agree that magnifying an animal with a scope is an advantage? Be serious.

To be truthful with you magnification at close range can actually be more of a hindrance then a bonus. It's the single reason why my scope is turned always to its lowest setting and often I find this to much too. I've contemplated to install a pin sight on my crossbow because of that.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

seems to me that the same arguments seen on this are the same arguments when compounds were new.....too fast, too much range, letoff lets you hold it too long, so much easier to learn. .

I hear this comparison alot, Compounds and long bows, fundementally are Identical in everything, including looks. Everyone will agree that compond and long bow look nothing like a xbow.

The sad fact is that since the inclusion of compounds , the long bow is becoming a thing of the past, a lost art sort of speaking. Will xbows do the same to compounds???? IF your predictions are true, then the fate of compounds maybe already sealed !!!


Once a compound it sighted in, the bow and arrows are tuned it takes only a few days to get proficient.

So a man with all your days of expirence,and proficiencey How many National 3D titles or Fita titles do you hold ???

[ishootbambi]

then why do compounds still enjoy popularity everywhere crossbows are currently allowed? im going from memory, but i think its ohio that has allowed crossbows since 1982, yet compounds remain very popular today. and......now you are concerned for the fate of crossbows? thats the first youve said anything about that.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

then why do compounds still enjoy popularity everywhere crossbows are currently allowed? im going from memory, but i think its ohio that has allowed crossbows since 1982, yet compounds remain very popular today. and......now you are concerned for the fate of Compounds? .

I fixed your post, so it would make a little more sense. And I was asking a question, if compounds would eventually recieve the same fate as the long bow?

There definatly has to be a time that technological advancement has to stop!!,, for the sake of the animals! Might as well start somewhere like here ! Or I would hate to imagine whats next done the line !!!

[NBFK]

They are our general tags as albertans to be lucky enough to use. This isn't selfish joe blow can go buy a bow and a general mulie take and giver. But once srd takes general tags away from over havest because of high success rates who's selfish then. The guy who didn't want to buy a compuond and complained to get x bow season in. Or the bow hunters who always encourage people into the sport through local clubs and organizations. For hunt writer to generalize on how easy archery is with tuning and such maybe you should how a work shop for all of us who are missing what you have. Also maybe a crossbow is a good option for an uncoordinated individual as yourself keep pushing crossbows we will all loose.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

:

So a man with all your days of expirence,and proficiencey How many National 3D titles or Fita titles do you hold ???

i have won every one that i have entered.

[TreeGuy]

SRD must start collecting manditory hunter success statistics. Until proper records can be garnered, and a database generated, these arguments are just that........arguments.

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

i have won every one that i have entered.

Entered 0 ...LOL

[HunterDave]

I hunt with a crossbow as I have a permanently wonky shoulder that won't allow me to draw a conventional bow safely. It seems to me that some people think that just because you are using a crossbow you are instantly going to be able to harvest a deer, moose or elk with it. NOT TRUE! You still have to do everything the same things that a conventional bowhunter would have to do. Scout areas and select the best spot to hunt, get in and out of your deerstand undetected, enter the area scent free, make sure that the wind is blowing in the right direction, wear quiet clothing, and everything else that needs to be done to improve your success.

The only advantages to using a crossbow is that the string does not have to be drawn when you are ready to use it (less movement) and perhaps the ability to add a scope to a crossbow. I have a red dot on mine so I have to practice to learn where the red dot must be placed on the animal at varying distances.

One disadvantage for the crossbow in comparison to a conventional bow is that it is only effective at shorter distances because it looses energy allot quicker. 50 yds would be my absolute farthest shot on a deer because after that the penetration is significantly lower that a conventional bow.

As for calling a crossbow a gun........when they invent one that'll allow me to sit on a tree stump, have a pop and a cigarette and shot something 300 yards out into the field, then I will class it as a rifle.

[Huntwriter]

Originally Posted by pottymouth

Once a compound it sighted in, the bow and arrows are tuned it takes only a few days to get proficient.

So a man with all your days of expirence,and proficiencey How many National 3D titles or Fita titles do you hold ???

Never took part in any 3-D or any other archery competitions. I am a bowhunter not an archer. What I mean by that is that I have zero interest in archery as a sport whatsoever. All my practice is strictly aimed at killing a deer not scoring points. When I first got into bowhunting 35 years ago it took me about three days, after the bow was properly set up tuned and sighted in, to consistently hit a 6" circle at 35 yards. I've to admit that I had a very good teacher. He spent all day long, with short breaks, shooting with me. I didn't find it all that difficult to get proficient, but then again I do not take long shots either. The majority of my shots are inside the 20 yard mark. I like game close so I can see the colour in their eyes. That is what thrills me about bowhunting and why I do it.

Now when I started with a traditional bow that was a whole different story. This took a long time, and as any traditional archer will agree, real dedication just to get to the point of the arrows hitting where I was looking at. Still, to this day I do not feel competent to use that bow for anything else but fun stump shooting. I had a shoulder injury and couldn't shoot a bow for well over two years. When I picked the compound up it took me less than two hours to get hang of it again. It took me over two month with the traditional bow, it was like starting from scratch. Maybe I have special talent for compound bows and not for traditional bows.

[DJS]

So lets ask this question to all the people out there who are in favour of introducing xbows into the archery seasons.
If this happens which weapon will you use? A bow or a crossbow? And be honest.

[catnthehat]

Comparing and lumping the cross bow in with archery gear is like lumping spears in the same category.
The crossbow IMO is neither a rifle nor a bow, it is something all by itslf.

However, if a seperate season were made fpor the cross bows, then somebody else would "lose" part of their season.
Crap, if the length of season is that important, just pick up a crossbow like they do in other parts of the country.
Myself, I have aboutr as much interest in them as an inline, but if Iwanted to hunt with either it would in a regular season, the same as Ido up here with my flat bow.
Cat

[Chevy 454]

Originally Posted by natural.born.fawn.killer

They are our general tags as albertans to be lucky enough to use. This isn't selfish joe blow can go buy a bow and a general mulie take and giver. But once srd takes general tags away from over havest because of high success rates who's selfish then. The guy who didn't want to buy a compuond and complained to get x bow season in. Or the bow hunters who always encourage people into the sport through local clubs and organizations. For hunt writer to generalize on how easy archery is with tuning and such maybe you should how a work shop for all of us who are missing what you have. Also maybe a crossbow is a good option for an uncoordinated individual as yourself keep pushing crossbows we will all loose.

I am an Albertan,born and raised, and do buy the general tag for mulies some years for archery season. You say you don't want to lose the general tags Albertans are entitled to because of too many hunters in archery season, then in your next breath say you encourage more people to join in.(As long as they are your kind of people).
Personally,I think you guys are expecting way beyond worst case scenario. I think most guys who try crossbow will be rifle hunters who are out a couple weekends a month and coupled with the fact they will have to get much closer than with rifles, most will not even shoot a arrow at a deer let alone fill their tags. I am not sure where to look but I think there is stats on the average # of days in the field per hunter and unless it has changed since I saw it, they are dismally low. There is not going to be a huge harvest change unless these hunters can put in a lot more time in the field than I suspect they do now.

[Tatonka]

Or.........Is a modern compound bow more like a crossbow or more like a longbow or recurve? I've not hunted with a crossbow.....never have shot one, but I currently have 3 compounds, 2 longbows, and 2 recurves. I enjoy shooting all of them and have killed animals with all of them, and I can tell you that killing a critter with a traditional bow is very, very different (much more difficult) than killing a critter with a modern compound. In my mind, a crossbow is neither a compound or a rifle and a compound is neither a crossbow or a recurve.... They are all very different weapons with different limitations.

I"m guessing that if P&Y did not allow critters to be entered into their record book that were killed with a compound bow, there would be no P&Y club. They depend on people paying the entry fees to exist. I could care less..... I personally don't believe in record books and measuring animals, but that's neither here nor there.

If they had a "Rock Season", I'd probably be out thowing rocks at them.

[NBFK]

I am an Albertan,born and raised, and do buy the general tag for mulies some years for archery season. You say you don't want to lose the general tags Albertans are entitled to because of too many hunters in archery season, then in your next breath say you encourage more people to join in.(As long as they are your kind of people).
Personally,I think you guys are expecting way beyond worst case scenario. I think most guys who try crossbow will be rifle hunters who are out a couple weekends a month and coupled with the fact they will have to get much closer than with rifles, most will not even shoot a arrow at a deer let alone fill their tags. I am not sure where to look but I think there is stats on the average # of days in the field per hunter and unless it has changed since I saw it, they are dismally low. There is not going to be a huge harvest change unless these hunters can put in a lot more time in the field than I suspect they do now.


Success rates will be greater with a crossbow than a compound. If you think the general seasons wouldn't be affected by higher hunter numbers with even higher success rates then I think you would be in for a surprise. Oh well just another thread of complaining about losing your mule deer opportunities. We shoot ourselves in the foot all the time. I.E the antlerless season up north during the spring. Now the mule deer population has suffered from hard winters over harvest and people are devasted.