Barrel break in on savage

[Bowie]

Just bought a savage .223 and was reading about there recommended barrel break in. Seems very excessive, I only bought an axis for small game.
What is the purpose for the break in. What is being accomplished when you do it this way opposed to another way.
What is actually happening with the barrel when you do it?

[gopher]

Done lots of it 1 shot for ten clean each shot 3 groups of 3 clean on and on...
Several aftermarket barrels have just been shot no cleaning.

I don't have a fire lapping kit yet but for factory barrels looks
Like the ticket.

Every barrel can be improved by lapping IMO.

[catnthehat]

You will get as many opinions as rifle brands when it comes to break in.
Generally speaking a production factory barrel is supposed to benefit from it mire than a custom built barrel .
The idea behind it is to smooth out microscopic imperfections , etc that would normally be done by a custom maker through lapping .
Some guys simply clean the crap out of the barrel with penetrating oil , take the stock off and check for oil in the bed, make sure everything is snug and go from there .

I have seen some barrel break in procedures however that would use a good deal of barrel life out of a gun in an overbore cartridge such as the 257 Weathrrby or 7STW!
Cat

[Pathfinder76]

In that barrel it will make zero difference. Shoot until accuracy falls off. Clean to bare steel. Repeat.

[elkhunter11]

Just don't let the fouling build up. New factory barrels often foul a lot when new, and it usually tapers off as the first 50 or so shots are fired.

I have seen some barrel break in procedures however that would use a good deal of barrel life out of a gun in an overbore cartridge such as the 257 Weathrrby or 7STW!

Some people go way overboard.

[Mateo]

I would follow what the factory suggested. You don't want to doubt yourself later on with 'what if I took the time and did it right' accurate guns are much more interesting.

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by Mateo

I would follow what the factory suggested. You don't want to doubt yourself later on with 'what if I took the time and did it right' accurate guns are much more interesting.

Very true. Another question I have is what are the thoughts on the Burris full field 2 rifle scope. I got one on trade and have been thinking I'll put it on the axis. I realize it's a better scope them the bushnell it came with.

[3blade]

The purpose is to shorten barrel life so you have to buy a new gun sooner.

Shoot groups with a box of ammo A, measure/record, clean, shoot with ammo B, clean, measure/record. Repeat for as many times as it takes you to find a load you like.

Some bullets will only do well with their own kind of fouling, esp. ttsx and other all copper. Thus the cleaning between different bullets.

[Dick284]

There is no way anyone can quantify the results from doing barrel break in.

No two barrels are manufactured exactly the same, and therefore no two barrels will exhibit the same levels of accuracy, or fouling. So there is no meaningful way of saying, that a particular barrel shoots in such a manner because the barrel was broken in or not. Too many variables can render a skewed outcome.

Second to this is how can you effectively break in a factory barrel, if the factory does a 3 shot group, to help show their rifles inherent accuracy as a sales pitch?

I've personally taken a very middle of the road approach to barrel break in.

Start clean, shoot and clean for the first 3(unless it comes with a 3 shot target) then shoot a 3 shot group and clean, then shoot a 5 shot group and clean, or another 2, 3 shot groups, then run it till you see accuracy drop off. Or until you feel you've neglected your new baby long enough.

Am I getting better results since I started the voodoo witchcraft mind melting barrel break in stuff..... I couldn't tell you! Maybe my reloading skills and or my reloading tools, or choice of components have gotten better while getting turned onto such things. Maybe I've invested in better optics parallel to getting into doing barrel break in. Could it be that since I first heard about barrel break in, from an accomplished SBR shooter, maybe I've gleaned something from the SBR shooter other than barrel break in knowledge...... Who the heck knows.

But I do know it feels "not right" to not do some sort of barrel break in now.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by 3blade

The purpose is to shorten barrel life so you have to buy a new gun sooner.

This is exactly what some barrel makers will tell you.

[Mateo]

I call bull. Any reputable barrel maker/machinist will know that after machining and chambering there are sharp edges and burrs that, although very small, can grab copper and cause a build up. Sure you could go redneck and just keep shooting and eventually everything gets smoothed out. But uneven burs can cause uneven wear if copper just gets concentrated in one area. Cleaning copper between those first shots exposes those sharp edges and burrs to be worn away evenly. Especially in the throat area where the leade starts and stops. This is where it all begins. Factory rifles are always more rough and benefit the most. Saying to the OP that cleaning between those first series of shots is just a scam to cause unnecessary barrel wear is a load of bull. The barrel life of the .223 is very good and I would even argue that not cleaning those first shots would need more shooting to break in a barrel and that's causing unnecessary barrel wear. But in all seriousness, no one would notice 20-30 rounds of wear. Sure guys have had success just shooting and not cleaning. But is that the best way? I'll let you decide.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Mateo

I call bull$#€¥. Any reputable barrel maker/machinist will know that after machining and chambering there are sharp edges and burrs that, although very small, can grab copper and cause a build up. Sure you could go redneck and just keep shooting and eventually everything gets smoothed out. But uneven burs can cause uneven wear if copper just gets concentrated in one area. Cleaning copper between those first shots exposes those sharp edges and burrs to be worn away evenly. Especially in the throat area where the leade starts and stops. This is where it all begins. Factory rifles are always more rough and benefit the most. Saying to the OP that cleaning between those first series of shots is just a scam to cause unnecessary barrel wear is a load of bull. The barrel life of the .223 is very good and I would even argue that not cleaning those first shots would need more shooting to break in a barrel and that's causing unnecessary barrel wear. But in all seriousness, no one would notice 20-30 rounds of wear. Sure guys have had success just shooting and not cleaning. But is that the best way? I'll let you decide.

Actually, it was Gail MacMillon himself who stated this quite a while back
http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.htmlat
Cat

[gtr]

Google answers always entertain.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by gtr

Google answers always entertain.

What part of that google answer is entertaining?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by chuck

What part of that google answer is entertaining?

I think he is insinuating that I didn't know the answer until I used google?
Truth is I read it in a precision shooting magazine years ago .
Cat

[catnthehat]

Dunno, a guy could log into 6mmbr.com and find it which is what basically I did
It says the link may have been removed ?
Cat

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Bowie

Very true. Another question I have is what are the thoughts on the Burris full field 2 rifle scope. I got one on trade and have been thinking I'll put it on the axis. I realize it's a better scope them the bushnell it came with.

Burris Fullfield II is a decent scope. I have one on a 22-250 that came with a rifle that I bought. Good enough for the coyotes that I shoot.

[Y2K]

Break in.

[Dick284]

http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html

[marxman]

just to throw another angle out there howa says if you let the barrel heat up during break in it will destroy the steels ability to stay stable and the barrel will "walk" point of impact after that as the barrel heats up. this instruction came with my rifle i had never heard of this i thought breakin was about the interior surface of the barrel. do gun manufacturers themselves really know what they are talking about i have no idea

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by marxman

just to throw another angle out there howa says if you let the barrel heat up during break in it will destroy the steels ability to stay stable and the barrel will "walk" point of impact after that as the barrel heats up. this instruction came with my rifle i had never heard of this i thought breakin was about the interior surface of the barrel. do gun manufacturers themselves really know what they are talking about i have no idea

Probably more about legal liability...if yours is a lemon, they can say it's your fault for not breaking it in properly...

[Bowie]

Originally Posted by Dick284

http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html

Great article. This was something my dad and I were talking about yesterday on our way back from our elk hunt. And the reason I posted this question. It make a lot of sense if they are after selling more guns. My Thompson center rifle didn't have any break in procedure. It was sub MOA out of the box. And now with the right ammo I'm shooting .5-.75moa. And all I do is clean my gun after using it. Nothing special either, it's a 30-06. Doesn't tend to foul much. I guess I've never gone more then 30-40 rounds without cleaning though.

[elkchaser]

I am no expert but I have have broke in the last 3 guns I bought and I honestly believe it helps . Then after I start load development of a few bullet and powder combos to find what the gun likes best ! I noticed a huge difference in my girlfriends savage lightweight hunter in 270 . Factory ammo at start was 5 in groups thought it was lemon . Shot 1 clean for 10 rnds then 3 shots clean for 15 rnds and went down to 2 in groups . After I did some playing with hand loads found it liked VARGET and 130 gr. SST down to 1 in or better groups . She was out shooting most of us this fall out to 500 no problem . I just found breaking in my new x bolt long range hunter last week that it was unbelievably dirty fouling with first box of super x and half way trough the second box of core locks it was barely dirty anymore . The 3 shot groups where better and that is how I usually tell it's seasoned the barrel . And yes I always let the barrel cool between shots !

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

I am no expert but I have have broke in the last 3 guns I bought and I honestly believe it helps . Then after I start load development of a few bullet and powder combos to find what the gun likes best ! I noticed a huge difference in my girlfriends savage lightweight hunter in 270 . Factory ammo at start was 5 in groups thought it was lemon . Shot 1 clean for 10 rnds then 3 shots clean for 15 rnds and went down to 2 in groups . After I did some playing with hand loads found it liked VARGET and 130 gr. SST down to 1 in or better groups . She was out shooting most of us this fall out to 500 no problem . I just found breaking in my new x bolt long range hunter last week that it was unbelievably dirty fouling with first box of super x and half way trough the second box of core locks it was barely dirty anymore . The 3 shot groups where better and that is how I usually tell it's seasoned the barrel . And yes I always let the barrel cool between shots !

So breaking in a barrel will take a five inch barrel and make it a two inch one. That's a bit of a stretch.

[3blade]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

I am no expert but I have have broke in the last 3 guns I bought and I honestly believe it helps . Then after I start load development of a few bullet and powder combos to find what the gun likes best ! I noticed a huge difference in my girlfriends savage lightweight hunter in 270 . Factory ammo at start was 5 in groups thought it was lemon . Shot 1 clean for 10 rnds then 3 shots clean for 15 rnds and went down to 2 in groups . After I did some playing with hand loads found it liked VARGET and 130 gr. SST down to 1 in or better groups . She was out shooting most of us this fall out to 500 no problem . I just found breaking in my new x bolt long range hunter last week that it was unbelievably dirty fouling with first box of super x and half way trough the second box of core locks it was barely dirty anymore . The 3 shot groups where better and that is how I usually tell it's seasoned the barrel . And yes I always let the barrel cool between shots !

Did you clean it before firing? When I bought my lightweight hunter (243) it took a significant amount of work to clean out the crap from whatever garbage proof loads they used. very few new guns come out of the box clean.

[double gun]

Waste of time

[elkchaser]

No not saying that at all chuck . Just the first shots with fusion 150 gr where all over in that gun by the time we finished with winchester dear season 130 gr it was a noticeable improvement and less recoil in a very light gun . It was my experience and was just found . I do believe barrel break in helps. Just my 2 cents and I ain't no expert as I said first !

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

I am no expert but I have have broke in the last 3 guns I bought and I honestly believe it helps . Then after I start load development of a few bullet and powder combos to find what the gun likes best ! I noticed a huge difference in my girlfriends savage lightweight hunter in 270 . Factory ammo at start was 5 in groups thought it was lemon . Shot 1 clean for 10 rnds then 3 shots clean for 15 rnds and went down to 2 in groups . After I did some playing with hand loads found it liked VARGET and 130 gr. SST down to 1 in or better groups . She was out shooting most of us this fall out to 500 no problem . I just found breaking in my new x bolt long range hunter last week that it was unbelievably dirty fouling with first box of super x and half way trough the second box of core locks it was barely dirty anymore . The 3 shot groups where better and that is how I usually tell it's seasoned the barrel . And yes I always let the barrel cool between shots !

If you were already shooting groups with the gun, I wouldn't call what you did breaking in the barrel. To me, breaking in a barrel , is a procedure that is used for new barrels, before you start shooting groups with them. These barrels would only have been test fired at the factory. As well, I find that some factory barrels often improve accuracy wise, and foul less as they are fired. The rougher the barrel, the longer it takes for this to occur.

The thing with break in procedures for barrels, is that you can't verify if it actually made any difference. If you don't use a break in procedure when you start shooting the gun, you will never know how it would have shot if you had used a break in procedure from the first shot. If you did use a break in procedure, you will never know how it would have shot if you hadn't used that break in procedure.

Just the first shots with fusion 150 gr where all over in that gun by the time we finished with winchester dear season 130 gr it was a noticeable improvement and less recoil in a very light gun .

You changed ammunition, which rules out any type of meaningful comparison. Obviously the rifle prefers the 130gr loads. As well, lighter bullets generally produce less recoil, and there is no way that any barrel break in is going to reduce recoil, unless you shoot it until the throat erodes, and the muzzle velocity falls off.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by elkchaser

No not saying that at all chuck . Just the first shots with fusion 150 gr where all over in that gun by the time we finished with winchester dear season 130 gr it was a noticeable improvement and less recoil in a very light gun . It was my experience and was just found . I do believe barrel break in helps. Just my 2 cents and I ain't no expert as I said first !

You have way too many variables in here to come up with any sensible conclusion. At all.

[elkchaser]

Elk 11
I always shot 3 at each target for the first box and a half since I started .The gun was cleaned before starting to remove as much dirt and filings . I am just shooting it to season the barrel and that's what I found . Not a match shoot here guys and once I break them in usually with cheap factory ammo I have some fire formed brass for the gun to go reload and try to find it's best combo for tight groups later . So In short I believe it helps if you don't agree with my findings take it with a grain of salt . That's just how I do it !