All electric F150

[Reeves1]

https://mustangforums.com/articles/a...8jN5xmDxpjYEew

[Arty]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

https://mustangforums.com/articles/a...8jN5xmDxpjYEew

'Cept it would be a lot quicker and cheaper if it wasn't slogging around any kind of batteries. That's the real deal-breaker in so-called 'electric' vehicles.

The best way to use them is to pull electric power off of the grid in real time. Either with some trolley or train pantograph system, or wireless electromagnetic power transmission. Then just use a little diesel engine to get to the next energized corridor and hook up again there, or as a backup to get home if the power goes out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xoI...I-y7PQ&index=7 (Keep in mind this is something that weighs 600 tons, accelerates up to 300 km/h in minutes, has a great restaurant car, and decent bathrooms in every car)

Otherwise the conventional fuel systems we have today are pretty good after a century of R&D.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Arty

How far could you drive in the F250 for the purchase price of the Prius + 2.6L/100 so far? Assume a buck a liter for fuel.
Back of the envelope says $30,000 = (30,000 liters + (56000km/100km)*2.6L) =31456L.
100km/16L*31456L = approx 200,000 kms. Which is break-even on gas alone, never mind extra insurance, extra storage/parking, battery replacement, or electricity charges.

Add in electricity price (from my bill that's 6.6 cents/kWhr + 50 cents/kWhr 'delivery' = $0.57 cents/kWhr). Assume 6 hour complete charge @ 120VAC 1-phase, 15 amps, 0.95 AC power factor = 6hr * 1.7 kWhr * .57 cents/kWhr = $ 5.81 per charge.
So being generous, $ 5.81/50km = $0.1163 per km. Over 200,000kms that's an additional $ 23,256.- on top.

How far further still could you drive that F250 on 23 grand worth of additional gasoline?
Maybe 100km/16L*23256L = 145,000 kms? So now your breakeven is 345,000 kms.

How long would it take you to drive 345,000 kms in your truck? For me, that's half a lifetime.
==
One more thing. How much are (or would be) the total interest charges on financing the Prius? Assuming 10 grand total financing for a Toyota, you've now got 40,000 liters of fuel. And the extra insurance payments? You're now pushing a half million clicks just to break even. Wow.

Hmmm..... well, here's my calculations:


Prius Prime

Fuel: 2.6l/100km over 56,000km at $1.00/L = $1456.00

Electricity: 56,000km/45km per charge = 1244km on electricity only

My electricity cost is 5.8c/KWh (which includes distribution costs - not sure who your provider is but you are getting screwed on delivery costs)

8KWh x 5.8cents = 46.4cents/per 45km charge = approx. one penny per kilometer electricity cost

Other variables: paid cash on Prius/no financing, battery warrantied for 10 years, both my wife and I can charge Prius for free at work, I have a company vehicle with paid mileage. F250 (older but reliable) for special circumstances only

= no brainer

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Reeves1

https://mustangforums.com/articles/a...8jN5xmDxpjYEew

Check out the next production e-Mustang. Due out in a year or so....

Looks to be starting at $55,000 to $60,000 CDN. A bit steep but you get AWD and a mustang SUV

https://www.ford.ca/technology/elect...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Personally, I think I'll hold out for this baby:

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/con...swagen-id-buzz

[Arty]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Hmmm..... well, here's my calculations:


Prius Prime

Fuel: 2.6l/100km over 56,000km at $1.00/L = $1456.00

Electricity: 56,000km/45km per charge = 1244km on electricity only

My electricity cost is 5.8c/KWh (which includes distribution costs - not sure who your provider is but you are getting screwed on delivery costs)

8KWh x 5.8cents = 46.4cents/per 45km charge = approx. one penny per kilometer electricity cost

Other variables: paid cash on Prius/no financing, battery warrantied for 10 years, both my wife and I can charge Prius for free at work, I have a company vehicle with paid mileage. F250 (older but reliable) for special circumstances only

= no brainer

Sorry, nope.
(Although I do agree my electrons are pretty pricey although I hardly use much, so will straighten that out over the winter...)

We are using the same straight fuel costs - ok. $ 1456.-

But 56000 km/ 45km/charge = 1244 charges.
Each charge costing $ .464 (?) gives a total of $ 577.22
{I took you at your word that the battery delivers 8kW power, not that it had 8kWhr energy content - commonly defined in megajoules (MJ). So, eliminate the time component for charging, and assume all energy consumed from the line is 100% converted to battery chemical energy; which however never happens.}

Now, advertised list price is around $ 30 - $33,000 bucks. If you are getting your cars for free, I'd like to know who the dealer is. I'd jump right in.

All together, that's still 32 to 35,000 dollars that could be have used for fuel to just put into the truck. Which translates to a quarter million kms (10 to 15 years) breakeven point for fuel using the (presumably) paid-off Ford, in order to come clear with the capital and basic operational costs spent on the Prius only driven to 56,000 km (so far).

If there was no paid-off truck to begin with, and you got your new Prius for free, it would be a different set of numbers. But it isn't. And already having a company car (not the Prius I assume) with mileage reimbursement on top (?) you already have free transportation. So the breakeven point is a long ways out any way you cut it.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Arty

Sorry, nope.
(Although I do agree my electrons are pretty pricey although I hardly use much, so will straighten that out over the winter...)

We are using the same straight fuel costs - ok. $ 1456.-

But 56000 km/ 45km/charge = 1244 charges.
Each charge costing $ .464 (?) gives a total of $ 577.22
{I took you at your word that the battery delivers 8kW power, not that it had 8kWhr energy content - commonly defined in megajoules (MJ). So, eliminate the time component for charging, and assume all energy consumed from the line is 100% converted to battery chemical energy; which however never happens.}

Now, advertised list price is around $ 30 - $33,000 bucks. If you are getting your cars for free, I'd like to know who the dealer is. I'd jump right in.

All together, that's still 32 to 35,000 dollars that could be have used for fuel to just put into the truck. Which translates to a quarter million kms (10 to 15 years) breakeven point for fuel using the (presumably) paid-off Ford, in order to come clear with the capital and basic operational costs spent on the Prius only driven to 56,000 km (so far).

If there was no paid-off truck to begin with, and you got your new Prius for free, it would be a different set of numbers. But it isn't. And already having a company car (not the Prius I assume) with mileage reimbursement on top (?) you already have free transportation. So the breakeven point is a long ways out any way you cut it.

I follow you now. However, the cost of any new car (ours was 33,000) could be used in that type of rationale.

Also, my math was bad. the 2.6l/100km is the combined fuel and electricity use so far. The average mileage a regular Prius gets (which ours turns into when the main battery is depleted) is 4.8l/100km.

So roughly 46% of our miles have been provided by electricity, which is 25,760km.

25760km of electricity (lets let the fact that 25% of the time we can charge for free make up the difference between how we calculate energy costs) based on our current electricity rate = $265.60

25,760km of fuel at 16/100km (although our V10 F250 is closer to 20/100) at $1/L = $4,409.60

If we only owned a regular Prius, the additional 25,760km of fuel at 4.8l/km at $1/L = $1236.48, representing a cost savings of about $1000 every 50,000km. After rebates, we paid $3000 more for the Prime than a regular Prius, so apples to apples, 150,000km is the break even point for the Prime. Considering we usually drive our vehicles to 300,000+Km, it made sense to us.

Interestingly, after the 10 year warranty, the dealer quoted $3,200 parts and labour costs to replace the Prime's battery. It's not great, but not as bad as I thought. A regular Prius battery is $2800.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Scott h

Interesting schematics showing the actual electric motors are replacing the front and rear differentials. That seems to leave the entire area under the hood completely empty and just begging for a 4 cylinder eco boost generator (similar to the Chevy Volt's) to kick in when the battery reaches a certain depletion level. The ability to drive on electric charge 99% of the time, but to have a built in gas generator to prevent any range anxiety would seem to make it more appealing to those who do travel to remote areas.

Looks like Ford has something like that in mind - A plug in hybrid with a 35KW battery and a twin turbo 3.5L V6. A full sized truck with a 35KW battery would likely have an electric range of around 80 to 100Km. This could fit the bill for a lot of people, although you'd be looking at pretty significant repair and maintenance costs for battery and turbo engine once the warranty runs out...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022...thing-we-know/

[Scott h]

Originally Posted by Spidey

Looks like Ford has something like that in mind - A plug in hybrid with a 35KW battery and a twin turbo 3.5L V6. A full sized truck with a 35KW battery would likely have an electric range of around 80 to 100Km. This could fit the bill for a lot of people, although you'd be looking at pretty significant repair and maintenance costs for battery and turbo engine once the warranty runs out...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022...thing-we-know/

That looks like a very practical set up. I would imagine that it would end up working like a Prius in that the electric motor would get you going from a stop, as well as a nice instant boost when you need the power. A 35 KW motor has to have a sizeable amount of torque. I'm assuming that they will have it configured to work as a generator for tool use as well.

[Arty]

Originally Posted by Scott h

That looks like a very practical set up. I would imagine that it would end up working like a Prius in that the electric motor would get you going from a stop, as well as a nice instant boost when you need the power. A 35 KW motor has to have a sizeable amount of torque. I'm assuming that they will have it configured to work as a generator for tool use as well.

I think they're looking at it like a diesel-electric locomotive setup, with the battery only serving as a buffer and short-term backup energy storage.

Considering that most people most of the time only use a small percentage of their max rated horsepower, a little ICE engine feeding the buffer battery makes more sense than some 800 pound 440 magnum engine or whatever that you'd floor just to merge in at an on-ramp. The battery doesn't have to be very big.

You'd still need a mechanical transmission system with one electric motor however, unless prepared to deal with the unsprung weight and clearance problems of having an electric motor at each wheel. I'd guess for a 2WD setup it would look a bit like a Porsche rear boxer configuration with a relatively light electric motor.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Scott h

That looks like a very practical set up. I would imagine that it would end up working like a Prius in that the electric motor would get you going from a stop, as well as a nice instant boost when you need the power. A 35 KW motor has to have a sizeable amount of torque. I'm assuming that they will have it configured to work as a generator for tool use as well.

I never through of that, but a 35KW onboard electric generator could have a lot of practical uses (camping, contractors, etc.). I've seen articles where Tesla home chargers have been wired into household electricity and the cars can act as a backup generator to the house when the power goes off.

The new (2021/22?) Rav4 Prime takes huge advantage of the electric powertrain and puts out over 300Hp with a 0-60mph at 5.7 seconds. Although peppy off the line, our Prius prime is probably double that time

https://www.toyota.com/rav4prime/