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  #31  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:48 PM
700TI
 
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Ruffgrouse, have some balls. Just because they are RCMP doesn't mean they know every bit of the law. A little education doesn't hurt. Maybe your the cop that stopped these guys.

The respect I had for the RCMP has dwindled in the last few years, It seems the young guys think they have something to prove. Wearing the uniform use to give them instant respect, but these young guys are slowly changing the publics attitude.
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  #32  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:49 PM
M70 M70 is offline
 
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Respectfully Tbar, the RCMP are not going to disclose any information about an ongoing case to anyone that wants to know, would they? I would assume that privacy for the citizens involved and police procedure probably would come into play here.
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  #33  
Old 10-05-2007, 03:32 PM
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scarey scarey is offline
 
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Default 1 st hand knowledge.

I have read the statement made by one of the fellows from Dawson Creek and it was as it sounds. The RCMP were not educated on the proper regulations. We are all getting use to the new regulations so stop,
read and get educated and that goes for the RCMP too. I have been stopped with no problems from the F&W, and most authorities probably know the proper rules.
Keep a copy of the regulations as you keep a hunting guide with you.
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  #34  
Old 10-05-2007, 03:41 PM
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scarey scarey is offline
 
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Default Read this

Have a read, print it off and put it in your glove box in case it ever happens to you!
Jill



This is information that firearms owners and hunters should be aware of:



Further to BCWF ALERT #31, the following is a letter written and distributed by Jim Parfrey one of the gentlemen caught up in the firearms incident in Dawson Creek.



***************



On Friday, August 24, 2007, I had an experience with a few members of the Dawson Creek detachment of the RCMP that I believe the public should be aware of. It had to do with their incorrect knowledge of the laws regarding the transportation of unrestricted firearms (hunting rifles) and the potential illegal treatment of legitimate law abiding citizens who legally use and own firearms. I have reason to believe that others who are not thoroughly familiar with the appropriate legislation may have been unfairly charged and may have lost their personal property and need to be aware of that.



To set the scene, Jim Kassen and I were heading from Jim’s residence east of Pouce Coupe to hunt moose for the afternoon and evening off the Wangler Road approximately 40 miles west of Dawson Creek. Our plan was to go hunting as soon as we finished some business in town. (We both had a valid hunting licence and a valid Moose Species Licence.) I am retired after some 32 years with the federal government, most of which were in management, and Jim Kassen is the recently retired President of Northern Lights College. While completing our business in town, we were pulled over by two RCMP constables in a cruiser with lights flashing. Jim had inadvertently driven straight ahead on 103rd Ave from the left hand turn lane in front of the Co-op during the very busy pre-noon traffic rush which was exacerbated by the closure of the traffic circle. As soon as Jim saw the lights of the police cruiser in the rear view mirror, he pulled into the first available parking spot while the cruiser pulled in behind. The cruiser blocked Jim’s truck as well as blocked west bound traffic flow on 103rd which was extremely busy. Jim got out of his truck but was ordered back into his vehicle by one of the constables who approached the driver’s side window and advised Jim of the reasons for the pull over, i.e., he didn’t turn left from the left turn only lane. The constable then noticed that there were two hunting rifles (non-restricted firearms) between the passenger and driver’s seats. Both rifles were unloaded with the actions open and the officer could clearly see this. Her manner changed immediately, she ordered Jim out of and to the back of his truck while I remained in the passenger seat with my seat belt on. The constable inspected both rifles asking where the locking mechanisms were and I advised that they were not required as both Jim and I had valid Possession and Acquisition Licences (PAL) and at least one of us was in the vehicle at all times. She then proceeded to take the firearms from the vehicle. At that point I asked what she was doing. She advised that she was seizing the firearms as they were not properly locked up for transportation and that Jim and I would be charged under the criminal code for not meeting safe transportation requirements. At this point I introduced myself advising that I was a federally certified Master Firearms Instructor fully knowledgeable in the legislation and regulations regarding the transport, storage and use of all firearms. I explained that our two non-restricted firearms met all legal requirements for transportation in an attended vehicle and that if she took the firearms it would be and is in fact theft of private property that was being transported legally. Furthermore to take the firearms without a lawful reason was an abuse of her authority.



In order to meet all legal requirements for transportation of non-restricted firearms in this case:

1. The firearms must be unloaded - both of our firearms were unloaded and as additional safety features, but not required by law,

a) the actions were open so any third party who knew anything about firearms could see they were unloaded and not in the battery or ready-to-fire position.

b) the firearms were kept below the dash and out of view so anyone walking or driving by would not be alarmed. The firearms could only be seen if someone came up to the vehicle and looked down. This, by the way, is a common method for local firearms owners and hunters to transport their firearms.



2. The vehicle must be attended by at least one individual who has a valid PAL or POL – in our case both of us had valid PALs and were in attendance. If we left the vehicle which was a pick-up truck, the firearms would have to be placed out of sight and the area they are in must be locked (for example covering the firearms with a blanket or jacket and locking the cab of the pick-up.) It is not a legal requirement that a non-restricted firearm be disabled by a locking mechanism while it is being transported.



3. The firearms should be registered even though the time frame legally requiring registration of non-restricted firearms has been extended by the current government until May, 2008. - Regardless both our firearms were registered.





The constable stated that she knew the firearms laws and had several charges pending for firearms offences of the same nature. Neither Jim nor I offered any resistance with the exception of my request that she return the firearms to us, that we did not authorize her to take them, and that the firearms met all legal requirements for transportation. Regardless, she took both firearms to her vehicle. She verified the firearms registration, our PALs, our driver’s licenses along with the fact that both Jim and I had no criminal record (either serious or misdemeanor) and had been law abiding our whole lives. After confirming this she also called a back up squad car even though there were two constables present and we were following all direction given and were not involved in any illegal activity. While this was occurring, traffic was delayed on 103rd and the general public had to assume there was a major police take down of what must be a couple of dangerous criminals. Meanwhile I remained in the passenger seat of the truck with my seat belt on.



After the back-up car arrived, the constable came back to our vehicle and advised Jim she was letting him go on the traffic violation but would not release the firearms because she was charging us with unsafe transportation under the criminal code and that her immediate superior had confirmed the charge. I again advised she was incorrect and that the firearms must be returned. At this time I removed my seat belt and went over to her and the other two constables and advised her once more that she was mistaken and that she should return our firearms. She asked for proof of the legislation and regulations which I had at my home in Vernon but not with me. I suggested that we go to her office and pull up the Canadian Firearms web site which was set up and is maintained by the RCMP. I advised that the legislation and regulations are accessible there. While she seemed to be unaware of this site she agreed to try this.



Jim and I drove to the RCMP station where we were confronted by the seizing constable’s immediate supervisor who proceeded to berate us for telling his constable that she was wrong and abusing her authority. He also reiterated that we would not get our firearms back and that we would be charged under Section 87 of the Criminal Code of Canada. I again stated my experience and background as well as certification and that we had done nothing wrong and wanted our firearms returned. I also asked to bring up the RCMP’s Canadian Firearm’s website. He refused, dismissed us, and was closing the reception window when I requested a meeting with his superior.



10 minutes later I was ushered in alone (Jim was directed to remain in the reception area) to meet with the Senior Officer in Charge who’s first position, based on information from his subordinates, was that we were going to be charged. However, he was open to my describing the circumstances of the firearms and the legal requirements for transportation. He also had a brochure in his possession from the RCMP’s Firearms Centre which identified the transportation requirements for both restricted and non-restricted firearms – the Dawson Creek detachment in error was applying the restricted requirements to non-restricted firearms. Restricted firearms (handguns etc.) must meet a much higher level of security for their transportation such as disabling by a locking mechanism and be in a locked opaque case, not to mention additional paper work requirements. With the brochure in his possession as well as confirmation from the police help line it was confirmed that I was right and that neither Jim nor I had done anything illegal regarding the transportation of our firearms. The Senior Officer in Charge advised that our firearms would be immediately released and he apologized for the mix-up. I went out to the reception area and waited with Jim for the return of our firearms. I felt we all learned something: – justice can be obtained by standing your ground, persevering, and being assertive when your rights have been violated; the Dawson Creek RCMP now have a clearer understanding of what constitutes safe transportation and law abiding citizens will have nothing to fear; and most importantly, a senior member of the force have proven that he was open to protecting the rights of honest law abiding citizens – after all we are human and errors do occur.



Everything had been resolved and the matter was finished to everyone’s satisfaction or so I thought. The supervisor brought our firearms out to us and I thanked him. You can imagine my shock when he bluntly stated to Jim and I that we would have been treated a lot worse than we were had he been present at the time our firearms where confiscated. Apparently in his mind citizens are not allowed to advise RCMP or object when their rights are being violated and/or the RCMP actions are wrong or illegal, and anyone who questions them will be treated severely. This belief is so ingrained that he made the statement to Jim and me together in the RCMP reception area which has a security camera that monitors and records. At the end of the day, nothing was learned and nothing was gained! I am gravely concerned that this kind of behavior and treatment of honest citizens will continue if these attitudes are not addressed.



What occurred was wrong on so many levels:





1. The role of the RCMP is to enforce the laws of the land, not to create their own laws. If they don’t know the firearms laws that have been in place for 15 years and slightly updated 9 years ago in a community with a significant number of firearms owners and hunters, what other laws are they ignoring or applying inappropriately or illegally?



2. This is an area that attracts hunters from all over the province as well as all over the world. The activities of firearms owners and hunters contribute substantially to the local economy. Mistreatment, false charges and harassment will all have a negative affect. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for citizens in a court of law and therefore should not be an excuse for the RCMP. It’s a fine line between being ignorant and acting ignorantly – in this case the seizing constable and immediate supervisor crossed the line which leads me to believe that this occurs as a matter of habit, not as a very rare or once in a life-time situation.



3. By the constable’s own statement she has seized firearms from several other owners for the same reasons. Many people do not have the knowledge, the will or the communication skills to defend themselves and may have lost or will lose their property even though they have done nothing wrong. In our case the replacement value of the 2 firearms is approximately $3,000.00.



4. When did it become illegal for a law abiding citizen to advise the RCMP that they are wrong and that their actions are wrong? When pointing out an error, omission, illegal action, etc. why should honest law abiding citizens be openly intimidated? At the time of the threat the supervising officer had admitted that a mistake in interpretation had occurred, been ordered to return the firearms, but at the last moment added his intimidating comment.



5. At least 7 to 8 person hours of RCMP time and equipment was spent trying to prove that Jim and I had done something wrong instead of simply applying the law as it stands. A simple look at the RCMP’s Canadian Firearms website, either the “legislation and regulation” section or “brochure” section would have provided concrete proof of Jim and my innocence (a 5 to 10 minute exercise at most). Surely this time could have been better spent on highway patrol or investigating criminal activities such as break-ins or drug gang activity. But then of course law abiding citizens, especially seniors who can’t move very fast, are much easier targets.



6. How can the RCMP earn and maintain respect when they treat two retired seniors the way they did even though we posed no threat and were involved in no illegal activity? If they can treat us the way they did, I believe this can happen to anyone and probably has happened many times to law abiding citizens in the Dawson Creek area. What right does the RCMP have to treat two retired seniors as criminals in an active public place (seizing their firearms, calling for back-up, impeding traffic) when they have done nothing wrong or illegal with their firearms. Our only fault was to state our innocence and to advise the RCMP officer that her actions and information were wrong. I was raised to respect the RCMP, and I call many active and retired members friends. When I conduct a course (CORE or Firearms Safety) I always stress respect for enforcement as they have a legitimate job to do. At this stage I can only say that my respect for the RCMP was severely shaken on the 24th of August, 2007 and it is only people like the Senior Officer in Charge that allow me to believe there is still some hope.

I wrote this letter hoping that it will be a catalyst that prevents others from being treated as we were, or at the very least residents of Dawson Creek will be better prepared to defend themselves when dealing with the institution that is responsible to protect law abiding citizens.



Respectfully yours,

J.C. (Jim) Parfrey

7044 Nakiska Drive

Vernon, B.C.

V1B 3M5

Telephone: (250)275-6316

Cell: (250)306-9460

E-mail: j-parfrey@shaw.ca







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  #35  
Old 10-05-2007, 03:49 PM
mskrecek mskrecek is offline
 
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I stopped by the RCMP detachment in WCT shortly after lunch and asked the attendant at the front for a clarification. I had the printed off documentation off of the CFC website outlining the approved procedure for transporting all classes of firearms. She was unable to provide direction one way or the other and apparently there was no officer available to come to the front and speak with me. They took my number, however, no one has returned my request to call me as of yet. I would rather discuss the procedure in their building than on the side of the road in the middle of my hunt.
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  #36  
Old 10-05-2007, 05:18 PM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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At a time when we are trying to get new hunters into the sport is this really what they can be looking forward to. Getting thrown on the hood of a car and handcuffed for obeying the laws?? The only thing these guys did was make the mistake of wanting to go hunting.

If this is the message the RCMP wants to send to law abiding citizens then maybe it's time they saddle up and head back to Ottawa. I would like to hear from the RCMP just what is going on here. I find it hard to believe that they could be that ignorant of the law. Are they purposely harrassing law abiding gun owners??

I'm going to fire an email off to Ted Morton as he seems to be one of the few politicians left with some common sense who MAY be able to get to the bottom of this. Not too sure why I have to worry about spending a day in jail or getting handcuffs slapped on me getting things sorted out just because I decided to go lawfully hunting and the RCMP are unable to read/understand the very laws they are supposed to enforce.

The more I think about this travesty the more ****ed I get. I actually used to think the RCMP were bar none the best police force in North America, and looked at all of them as a friendly face, now, over the last few years I am starting to look at them as someone to be feared even though I am a law abiding citizen. Just doesn't seem like the kind of Canada I had hoped for.
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  #37  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:01 PM
59whiskers 59whiskers is offline
 
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Suka I agree with you a 100%, if they were young guys the situation would have been much different, couple this with all those new police recruits entering the work force and we will definitely see more of these gestopo tactics in the future. A lot of the older officers are familiar with hunters and know who is a threat or not. Unfortunately there is a lot less young people entering police or wildlife enforcement work with out a hunting background. If I was wrongfully detained, my firearm seized, and a trip ruined because of ignorance of the law by an enforcement officer I would not keep quiet about this.
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  #38  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:01 PM
Tbar Tbar is offline
 
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To be honest, I asked them how they were enforcing that specfic aspect of the law and whether there was some kind of crack down...I did not ask about any specfic instance of someone being charged. I'm not inclined to think the police are stupid are intentionaly difficult (all though I am not so sure about this now), I just want to know what thier position is so I can be compliant. The answer did not help me with that at all. For unrelated reasons, we are now changing our plans and going somewhere else tomorrow so I guess I don't have to worry about it until next week.
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  #39  
Old 10-05-2007, 06:19 PM
pogo pogo is offline
 
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Default I hear ya...

Rugatika.

Well said. Nothing irks me more or is more abhorrent than injustice or abuse of power. There is an old saying, "a new broom sweeps clean". Maybe the new leader will do just that.

I think most of us still have a very high regard for law enforcement, but when they lose their way, the dirt eventually comes out in the wash. Look what happened to the Canadian Airborne Regiment when they got lost. They got so lost, they disgraced the original members and embarrassed the nation. We're obviously not talking about something of that magnitude, but for heaven' sake! Somebody "GET A GRIP".
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  #40  
Old 10-05-2007, 07:20 PM
VerySavage VerySavage is offline
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Personally I would start by forwarding a copy of J.C. (Jim) Parfrey's letter & comments to the local media in Dawson Creek.
I so seldom see RCMP or F&W Officers when hunting that I have not found myself in conflict with them, but one thing I will now do is go to the CFC site & make a printed copy of the regulations around transporting of firearms, which I will then laminate & store in my vechicle for just such a situation.
--Ken
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  #41  
Old 10-05-2007, 09:58 PM
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wctbowtech wctbowtech is offline
 
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Default Clarification

I should have noted that both individuals did not get charged (even though they were hadcuffed), although they both where advised to get trigger locks for their firearms. One of the guys ended up spending approximately 2 hours at the check stop before he was released. What burns me the most about this was that he was taking his son out hunting and because of the incident he didn't end up going. The other guy went directly to the local gun shop and bought a trigger lock. He knows that it is not required, but he doesn't want to get hasseled again.
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  #42  
Old 10-06-2007, 12:04 AM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Default of course there were no charges

That is my point. These guys did nothing illegal and did not break any laws, and I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that the RCMP damn well new it. It is starting to sound more and more like this is nothing more than harrassment of law abiding citizens. This is meant to send a message to hunters and other people with guns that the police are going to make gun ownership as much of a headache as they can. These guys need to be weeded out of the RCMP pronto. We better get some answers from MP's and MLA's fast about what is going to happen to these individuals.
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  #43  
Old 10-06-2007, 01:11 AM
Nomad Nomad is offline
 
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Maybe it's time Alberta moves ahead with one of Morton's PC leadership platform issues. Cancell the RCMP contract and form our own provincial force, something a little more 'culturally intuitive'.
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  #44  
Old 10-06-2007, 10:00 AM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad View Post
Maybe it's time Alberta moves ahead with one of Morton's PC leadership platform issues. Cancell the RCMP contract and form our own provincial force, something a little more 'culturally intuitive'.
We need police and bureaucrats that reflect Albertan values here, not Toronto and Ottawa values. Why harrass law abiding gun owners when there are plenty of actual criminals they could be chasing down? Maybe it has something to do with the fact that criminals take the time to know their rights and are not easy targets for the police like law abiding citizens are.

Sorry to dump on the police in general, as I know there are plenty of good ones, and I do appreciate the good work they do, but as long as the good ones are covering for the bad ones they will all get tarred with the same brush.
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2007, 10:12 AM
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The RCMP take sensitivity trainig for minorities, natives, and such, how bout some training for other minorities such as legitamite hunters and shooters.
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  #46  
Old 10-06-2007, 10:53 AM
VerySavage VerySavage is offline
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Thumbs down

I know that when I am eventually stopped I will be recording names, badge #, car unit #, whatever I can to identify the culprits responsible for screwing up my day. This info will then be given to my lawyer to ensure that all officers involved are named in the pending lawsuit. Heck, I am on LTDI I can afford a few days in court even with a public defender if it means keeping the responsible RCMP tied up in court & off the streets harassing other hunters.
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2007, 04:26 PM
Dead Moose Dead Moose is offline
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Default Cops always go after the EASY targets not the tough

ones. That is why you see traffic patrols instead of gang busts. It is just human nature to take the easy way out and cops are lazy like everyone else so why hassle someone who might fight back.
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  #48  
Old 10-06-2007, 09:46 PM
M77RMKII M77RMKII is offline
 
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Default Stopped where?

Where were these guys stopped? A highway or secondary road?

My next door neighbor is an RCMP officer(s), walks his dog and never bags the effluent :-) these guys are just hired, not perfect. Perhaps a video submission to YouTube may bring some national attention. Anybody dare to push it
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  #49  
Old 10-06-2007, 09:48 PM
270WIN 270WIN is offline
 
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It all kind of reminds me of the incident several years ago where five lard ass cops in B. C. (Chiliwack I think) with guns drawn took down a father and his young son who had been plinking with a BB gun because they were believed to be a threat to public safety.
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  #50  
Old 10-06-2007, 10:54 PM
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OK first off, STOP the 'Cop Bashing'! They are the guys that run toward what we run from. One of the RCMP officers killed in Maythorpe was about to become a family member, so I'm a bit sensitive.

Rug, I'm with ya 100%. In our legal system, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". I find it somewhat difficult to believe that officers stationed in an area heavily frequented by hunters, do not understand transport laws. It would seem to me that with the onset of 'hunting season', they would be at least briefed on these laws. I'd really hate the even begin to think that their actions were deliberate, and part of an overall 'attitude' from Ottawa in regards to such matters. On the other hand, we have all seen what this force had become under its past director, Zaccerdelli (sp?)! We should ALL be aware of the actions of the RCMP under creitien et all, in regards to 'Shawinnigate'. Perhaps it is time for an APP.

Tree
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  #51  
Old 10-07-2007, 10:38 AM
BrownBear416 BrownBear416 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 700TI View Post
Ruffgrouse, have some balls. Just because they are RCMP doesn't mean they know every bit of the law. A little education doesn't hurt. Maybe your the cop that stopped these guys.

The respect I had for the RCMP has dwindled in the last few years, It seems the young guys think they have something to prove. Wearing the uniform use to give them instant respect, but these young guys are slowly changing the publics attitude.
Hard to agree with an anti Flame but i have to.

This is a good thread as it helps people learn there rights pertaining to firearms and transportation.

Here is a run in i had with a Sheriff last week up in Peace River.


BrownBear is pulled over.
Cop comes up to the window(i am in full camo)and ask's me if i got anything.
BrownBear says no.
Cop says i did.
BrownBear is tired so he bites and says"oh ya what did you get"
Cop says i got a 127km an hour in a 100 zone and bursts out laughing.
BrownBear does not laugh.
Cop shines light in truck and spots hunting rifle on the front seat,in the case but not zipped up.
Cop loses all humour and yells what is that doing there.
BrownBear says what do you mean.
Cop says you are not allowed to have that out,you are supposed to have it stored away in the case and in the backseat.
Brown Bear says no it does not have to be.
Cop says well are you hunting of the highway.
BrownBear says no i am not hunting at all as it is dark out.
Cop says is it loaded.
BrownBear says no,and as i am pointing to it one of my fingers touch the buttstock.
Cop yells whoa dont touch that with me here sonny as now we are both armed.
Cop askes for paperwork and id.
Cop shines light in backseat and spots my laptop bag(that i use for scouting and trailcam pics)and says is that a big bag of cocaine.
BrownBear says well if it is then it will be a first for both of us because i have never seen any cocaine in my life let alone a big bag of it.
Cop goes back to car and writes ticket
Cop comes back to truck and gives me the ticket and shines his light on the rifle again.
Cop says boy that gun is making me nervous.
BrownBear says well if you want me zip it up then you have to let me touch it.
Cop says dont touch it.
Cop looks at BrownBear.
BrownBear looks at Cop.
Cop askes again if rifle is loaded.
BrownBear says no.
Cop stares at gun like it is a red headed step child.
Cop says have yourself a fine night and goes back to his car.
BrownBear shakes his head and wonders why he was treated like a serial killer when all he is is a speeder.

I am always polite when i am pulled over and dont mind getting tickets when i break the law...but come on.

Point of the story...cops dont know much about laws exsept for the ones they enforce everyday.
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  #52  
Old 10-07-2007, 10:51 AM
steveo10 steveo10 is offline
 
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A lot of it has to do with a "PowerTrip" They like to push the limits and show who is the higher authority.

I read the story of the guns gettin tooken away and the 1st thing i did was print off the rules of possession of guns. As stated before, carry it in your glove box
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  #53  
Old 10-07-2007, 11:36 AM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Default bad attitude

BrownBear, that is exactly what I'm talking about.

10 years ago RCMP had a professional polite attitude when they pulled someone over and I always thought highly of them (even if I was getting a ticket). They were just doing their job and I admired them for doing it in a professional, courteous, and respectful manner. This attitude seems to have been replaced with an us vs them attitude.

Unfortunately, I no longer look up to the RCMP like I used to and every story I hear about them (from being Chretiens attack dogs, Zachardelli, and so on) further erodes the respect I once had for them. Too bad. As was mentioned before, maybe it's time Alberta abandoned the RCMP in favour of a provincial police force that is trained here in Alberta.
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  #54  
Old 10-07-2007, 01:05 PM
jigs jigs is offline
 
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I would like to shed some light on this topic.

I was working this checkstop and was privy to most of the actions taken. Firstly the cops involved were very polite, professional and even had a sense of humour. The individuals confronted, had firearms in their vehicle, uncased, unlocked and in plain view. On a public highway should they not be cased?

When the police saw this they must follow procedure. The fellows were handcuffed and put in the back seat of the cop car. The mounties then checked backgrounds, looked for outstanding warrants, and made sure the guns were not stolen etc. For all they knew these folks could have been involved in a recent crime.

Once the men were cleared they were given their guns back and sent on their way. Charges could have been laid but were not. One of the men even thanked the lead officer.

Several groups of hunters were stopped over the 2 days and not detained because their guns were properly stored. The message here is to follow the rules.

The police have a hard job and the last thing they need is to take criticism for following procedure, giving a hunter a break and using discretion.
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  #55  
Old 10-07-2007, 01:14 PM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Default Procedure??

WTF?? Where in the law does it say these guns have to be in a case while in transport down a highway?? All I've read says they have to be unloaded and that's it. Why weren't these guys charged for not having the guns in a case then??

Is it standard procedure to handcuff law abiding citizens? One of the guys said thanks for being cuffed and thrown in the backseat. Are you serious???

What charges could have been laid and for what?? I sure would like some clarity on what law these guys were breaking. This is getting scary. I think we better get this straightened out right away.

Jigs, are you an RCMP? How were you involved in this check stop??
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  #56  
Old 10-07-2007, 01:33 PM
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Scott N Scott N is offline
 
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jigs, rugatika is absolutely correct. The only legal requirement for transporting a non-restricted firearm is that the firearm is unloaded. There is no law requiring a non-restricted firearm being transported to be encased, or equipped with a trigger lock.
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  #57  
Old 10-07-2007, 01:38 PM
rugatika rugatika is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigs View Post
I would like to shed some light on this topic.

I was working this checkstop and was privy to most of the actions taken. Firstly the cops involved were very polite, professional and even had a sense of humour. The individuals confronted, had firearms in their vehicle, uncased, unlocked and in plain view. On a public highway should they not be cased?

When the police saw this they must follow procedure. The fellows were handcuffed and put in the back seat of the cop car. The mounties then checked backgrounds, looked for outstanding warrants, and made sure the guns were not stolen etc. For all they knew these folks could have been involved in a recent crime.

Once the men were cleared they were given their guns back and sent on their way. Charges could have been laid but were not. One of the men even thanked the lead officer.

Several groups of hunters were stopped over the 2 days and not detained because their guns were properly stored. The message here is to follow the rules.

The police have a hard job and the last thing they need is to take criticism for following procedure, giving a hunter a break and using discretion.
Just wanted to get this quoted for future reference. I'm still shocked that this is how police view law abiding citizens just because they own hunting rifles.
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  #58  
Old 10-07-2007, 02:07 PM
hogsmoker hogsmoker is offline
 
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I called the detachment in Whitecourt, because we are heading up to GP in the next couple of weeks. A lady answererd the phone and she asked the officer in the detachment if a trigger lock had to be on the gun when transporting a gun and he said "YES". I guess I will have to buy some trigger locks, if this is the wrong answer Jigs you better educate the RCMP in Whitecourt.
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  #59  
Old 10-07-2007, 02:08 PM
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Bushrat Bushrat is offline
 
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Yes Jigs it is absolutely legal in Alberta to have an uncased non restricted rifle anywhere you want in a vehicle daylight or dark in downtown calgary or on a logging road as long as its unloaded and someone in the vehicle has a valid PAL. You can leave them hanging in a back window in a gun rack legally , again as long as someone in the vehicle has a valid PAL. Only when the vehicle is unattended must those non restricted guns be put out of sight and no they do not need a trigger lock if the vehicle they are in is locked and they are not visible, not visible only means you cannot see the actual firearm, it can zipped up in a soft guncase, or covered by a jacket/ blanket laying on a seat or uncased under a seat as long as it is not visible to a casual passersby.

Last edited by Bushrat; 10-07-2007 at 08:58 PM.
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  #60  
Old 10-07-2007, 05:24 PM
101sonny
 
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Last edited by 101sonny; 10-08-2007 at 05:23 AM.
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