Non-restricted to prohibited

[223MB]

Silly question that I should know but I don't and couldn't find an answer so here we go!

Lets say the SKS is made prohibited and I own one. What happens?

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by 223MB

Silly question that I should know but I don't and couldn't find an answer so here we go!

Lets say the SKS is made prohibited and I own one. What happens?

Depends what the Government decides, grandfather or turn it in.

LC

[bat119]

You donate it to Justin's gun collection

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by 223mb

silly question that i should know but i don't and couldn't find an answer so here we go!

Lets say the sks is made prohibited and i own one. What happens?

s
s

[Scott N]

I suspect if the Libs start messing with the gun laws, another registry, etc., that there will be a whole lot more non-compliance this time around than there was the first time around.

The think about the SKS is that they are non-restricted, and there are a lot of them out there. How will they track them, and what will happen to the people who don't turn them in?

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by 223MB

Silly question that I should know but I don't and couldn't find an answer so here we go!

Lets say the SKS is made prohibited and I own one. What happens?

You no longer own one.

[bat119]

More bad publicity

Last night two vehicles drove through the rez shooting at houses in Frog lake when the Leo's caught one black truck witnesses say an SKS was recovered.

https://www.mylloydminsternow.com/15...lake-lockdown/

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You no longer own one.

What SKS? What XCR? What.....?

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Dick284

s
s

hovel

hut up

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

What SKS? What XCR? What.....?

What?

[Dweb]

Will be interesting to see what the future holds for the sks.

The liberal agenda doesn't look promising for the firearm community.

[DiabeticKripple]

Polysesouvient or however you spell it sent a memo to the RCMP with their list of demands.

They want “assault weapons” prohibited and it’s a long list that includes semi autos and anything “tactical” style (pistol grips, flash hiders, flashlights etc.)

They also want “military grade weapons” prohibited. Better not tell them the Lee Winfield is military grade!

[Pioneer2]

A Kentucky rifle once upon a day.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by bat119

More bad publicity

Last night two vehicles drove through the rez shooting at houses in Frog lake when the Leo's caught one black truck witnesses say an SKS was recovered.

https://www.mylloydminsternow.com/15...lake-lockdown/

The finger or the body that had the finger pull the trigger needs to be removed, the weapon is good to go......the individual is scum.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

Polysesouvient or however you spell it sent a memo to the RCMP with their list of demands.

They want “assault weapons” prohibited and it’s a long list that includes semi autos and anything “tactical” style (pistol grips, flash hiders, flashlights etc.)

They also want “military grade weapons” prohibited. Better not tell them the Lee Winfield is military grade!

Jeepers got a flashlight mounted on my 590 shotty....do I own a bad gun now

[wolf308]

Originally Posted by Newview01

You no longer own one.

^

[wolf308]

Another silly question ..... liberals or death ?

[DiabeticKripple]

Here the full english version of the Polysesouvient memo to the RCMP.

June 2017

Issues and recommendations related to the availability of assault weapons in Canada (Federal Act)

1) Definition of assault weapons

Canadian law only defines weapons as "restricted" and "prohibited" and that is according a series of
criteria. It does not define what constitutes "assault weapons." The gun lobby claims that assault weapons
are already banned, because it defines them as the gun can fire "automatic" (which are indeed prohibited
by law). However, government authorities around the world define "assault weapons" otherwise,
according to specific criteria too. For example: According to a definition of the US Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco and weapons (ATF), the existence of a "military configurations" following (other than the ability to
accept a detachable magazine) made a weapon an assault weapon, not "sport": the ability to accept a
detachable magazine, a folding stock, a bayonet mount, a pistol grip on a long weapon (to ensure more
stability when firing at succession "rapid fire"), a flash suppressor, a bipod, a grenade launcher and nightvision
lenses. More recently, the Supreme court of the United States confirmed the Maryland assault
weapons ban as defined by the law: "all semi-automatic rifles that can shoot ammo center fire that can
accept detachable magazines and have two or more configurations as a flash suppressor or a pistol grip. "
Thus, although certain features or accessories are prohibited in Canada, simply that a firearm has the
ability to incorporate in itself a "military configuration" which increases the risk to public safety. In fact, the
RCMP found that circumvention prohibitions or restrictions on shippers and firing mechanisms is fairly
easily and commonly.

2) Deficiencies in the current system - arbitrary nature of the criteria

The problem with the current system is that the criteria do not reflect a systematic or consistent risk to
public safety of various categories of weapons. Indeed, on this point we agree with the pro-gun groups
based on physical characteristics such as length of the weapon or the barrel, the classification appears
often arbitrary. Criteria for restricted weapons: "According to the Criminal Code, a firearm is restricted: - a
handgun that is not a prohibited firearm; - any firearm - which is not a prohibited firearm - with a barrel of
less than 470 mm in length which can draw center-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner; - any
firearm designed or adapted to discharge when it is reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding,
telescoping or otherwise; - any firearm designated as such by regulation." Take just the example of the
Beretta CX4 Storm or the weapon used in the killing at Dawson College, which at the time was a restricted
weapon. Since the killings, the manufacturer has brought to market a new model at the end of 2013, a
slightly modified version in order to escape the requirements of the restricted class. Since this new model
has a slightly longer barrel 470 mm (18.5 inches), or 19 inches, and that the firing mechanism is "rimfire"
and not "central percussion", it is an unrestricted weapon.
This is a perfect demonstration of arbitrary classification, which differs for two almost identical weapons
simply depending on a slight difference in the length of the barrel.

3) Deficiencies of the current system - neglected regulations

The system had to rely on an update of Regulation containing the list of restricted and prohibited
Weapons: The update of the list of restricted weapons and prohibited is especially necessary given the
practice some manufacturers use to circumvent the intent of Parliament by slightly adapting and giving a
new name to restricted or prohibited military weapons, all so that they can benefit from a less severe
classification:
"The expert in firearms and ballistics Alan Voth explains that arms manufacturers study the laws of each
country and create a version adapted to the legislation of each of the markets, which gives them more
sales opportunities. "In order to thwart the spirit of the law, manufacturers can rely on manifestly arbitrary
criteria such as the exact length of the barrel, as well demonstrates the example of the latest model Beretta
CX4 Storm, whose classification is not restricted. The coroner who conducted the investigation into the
tragedy at Dawson College was rightly criticized the federal government for failing in its responsibility in
connection with the classification of the weapon used, saying that if the spirit of law would have been
applied, the CX4 Storm Beretta was prohibited. "
The legislature did not foresee the development and subsequent development of the 'bullpup' design
when it adopted the 'Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts
of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and projectiles as prohibited or restricted'.
The spirit of the Firearms Act was that the firearms, such as the CX4 Storm Beretta used by M. Gill, are
prohibited rather than restricted. Only the government knows the reasons behind the sad fact that the
updating of the list has no (or almost no) was made since its creation in 1995, but it is reasonable to
believe that the latter is connected to the enormous pressure from weapons amateurs towards a greater
availability of assault weapons.

4) Deficiencies in the current system - classification by third parties

Another problem with the current system is that it depends on the good faith of manufacturers or
importers, two entities that hold financial interests in the least severe classification of weapons produced
or traded. Despite this conflict of interest between public safety and profits, these are private entities,
respectively, design weapons and who propose a classification at the time of import. In general, physical
verification of each weapon by the RCMP is done only on rare occasions. This therefore results in
thousands of weapons that are wrongly categorized according to the RCMP, which emphasizes for this
purpose "several false statements made by importers and auditors".
The case of the family of "Swiss Arms" and F-858 are but two examples that have attracted the attention
of the media. Despite their initial classification as non-restricted weapons, subsequent investigations have
prompted the RCMP in 2014 to revise it to "prohibited" because of their ability to "be converted into a
fully automatic firearm." Given the thousands of such weapons already in circulation as well as the
abolition of the register of non-restricted weapons that prevents the RCMP from identifying the owners,
the result is a huge public safety issue extremely difficult, if not impossible to solve.
Another less known example is that of the unrestricted SKS rifle. In 2014, the RCMP issued a bulletin for
the benefit of companies like anything, "a Russian SKS rifle without restriction manufacturing fully
automatic discharge, which raises concerns in terms of public safety. ... The weapon fires only in automatic
mode (no semi-automatic mode);" The Quebec controller estimates that "tens of thousands" of them were
imported into Canada, of which more than 5,000 in Quebec. But to date, no action on their classification as
non-restricted weapons appears to have been undertaken. Why this inaction? Again, there is that pressure
from pro-gun groups that may explain this stagnation in our view.

5) Deficiencies of the current system - unrestricted assault weapons

All of these elements have resulted in thousands of assault weapons that remain not only legal, but not
restricted. Take another example, that of the IWI Tavor Tar-21: this weapon is considered an assault
weapon by his Israeli manufacturer and "developed in collaboration with the Israel Defense Forces." As a
weapon not restricted, it is not only legally accessible to ordinary citizens, but it is also not restricted - that
is to say, not recorded, and therefore invisible to the authorities. IWI Tavor Tar-21 - Open weapon in
Canada in all, many unrestricted assault weapons are commonly available on the web and in catalogs from
merchants.

6) Approval of new models

Despite their own mandate to "act to eliminate ... the assault weapons of our streets ", the RCMP
continues to approve the sale of new models of assault weapons (two of which are called" submachine
guns "by their respectful manufacturer and which is classified as non-restricted weapon). Questioned
about this, their political aide said that "the government will not intervene in the decision of the police
concerning the classification of weapons, since they are the experts in these technical decisions."
However, as pointed out the RCMP in response to this, the police have to deal with the "definitions laid
down in the Criminal Code," which are set by the government - definitions that currently allow legal
assault gun ownership. The RCMP therefore has little room for maneuver in terms of decision-making
authority regarding decisions on the classification of a public safety perspective. Their role is limited to the
interpretation of the Act and the manifestly arbitrary criteria in this regard. Recently, the RCMP approved
the marketing of three assault weapons, including a subject of advertising clearly presenting its "military"
use.

7) risk to public safety

There is no reason that can be rationally used to justify private ownership of firearms designed to kill
humans. This position is shared by a member of the Liberal cabinet, having itself found that there was no
reason to allow Canada the possession of semi-automatic weapons like the one used to shoot down 20
children in Connecticut (referring to the AR-15, another model of assault weapon that is legal in Canada)
and that the goal should be "put out of circulation, not to allow their use." There are many examples of
recent tragedies committed with legal assault weapons, not only in the US but in Canada, including the
murders of three RCMP officers in Moncton, the PQ election night, the killing at Dawson College, and the
tragedy at the Mosque of Quebec according to some media reports.
Moreover, the RCMP repeatedly alerted the federal Minister of Public Safety as to the risk posed by the
availability of these weapons to public security. Justin Bourque used a semi-automatic rifle "Winchester
308 M305" to shoot three RCMP officers in June 2014 in Moncton. This weapon was a Chinese semiautomatic
version of the weapon of the American military, the M14, the favorite of military weapons
collectors. Bourque legally possessed this weapon. Richard Bain had in his possession a CZ-858 and a 30-
round magazine in the attack against Premier Pauline Marois in September 2012. If the weapon had not
jammed when he tried to shoot a police officer, the results would probably have been very different (one
person was shot: the stage technician Denis Blanchette).
According to an academic expert, the CZ-858 is similar to the AK-47, with a few differences: CZ is more
powerful and is known among experts as not as reliable. In 2014, the entire family of this weapon model
was deemed prohibited by the RCMP because of his ability to "be converted into a fully automatic
firearm", but their original classification "unrestricted" or "restricted" (depending on barrel length) was
reinstated by the Harper government with the power he has given through Bill C-42, just weeks before
federal elections in October 2015. In 2014, the majority of these weapons (7061) were "unrestricted",
while 412 were "restricted". This is probably why, if we go to some media reports, Alexandre Bissonnette
has been in lawful possession of a CZ-858 as part of the tragedy at the Mosque of Quebec in January 2017.
As in the case of the attack against Marois, the weapon would be checked, which would mean that this is
the second time that the death toll would have happened close to being much more important. The legal
availability of such weapons is a serious risk to public safety.
Recommendation: the government should establish a new classification system that will ban once and for
all assault weapons, or those designed to kill humans. Such a system must be based on a whole new range
of criteria, including the capacity of the weapon to accept military accessories (even if they are prohibited),
its power, its scope and effectiveness or speed shooting among others. The system should also incorporate
physical verification by the RCMP of each new model, including weapons identified by manufacturers as
unrestricted and it BEFORE any classification and market introduction.
Finally, a precautionary approach should prevail in any decision leading to classification in unrestricted or
restricted, that is to say which allow its legal possession by ordinary citizens.

8) Deficiencies in the current system - large capacity magazines

Finally, the 1991 Act (C-17) imposed a limit of 5 cartridges and 10 cartridges for long guns and handguns
respectively. This was generally accepted and repeated by many official sources, including the safe
handling firearms manual. Now, under the previous Conservative government, the RCMP has advanced a
new interpretation of the law on these restrictions, interpretation going against the legislative intent of
the Act of 1991 as evidenced by the Senior Political Adviser the Minister of Justice at the time, Ms. Kim
Campbell, who had himself worked on the drafting of the bill in question.
Indeed, in March 2011, the RCMP issued a special bulletin saying the law is only concerned with the
magazines of the firearm model for which that magazine is designed, not the gun that could accept the
magazine: "the maximum allowed capacity of a magazine is determined by the type of firearm for which it
was designed or manufactured and not by the type of firearm to which it can be used. Example: the Marlin
rifle model 45 (Camp Carbine) calibrated 45 Auto accepts magazines designed and manufactured for the
handgun Colt 1911. Therefore, magazines of seven bullets and eight bullets are allowed. " In other words,
a semi-automatic long gun" X "can be equipped with a magazine for more than five cartridges, provided
that the magazine was not designed for this specific weapon, for example if it has designed for a gun "Y"
and, even if the gun is prohibited in Canada, and although the magazine contains 10 rounds or more! Thus
it would be legal to use a magazine filled with 15 cartridges (5.56 caliber) rifle designed for "Beowulf" (size
50), a prohibited weapon in Canada, in a semi-automatic rifle as long as the latter Beowulf is not, as
confirmed by the RCMP in response to a reporter's question. Such a configuration is illegal in at least six US
states. This interpretation is incredibly absurd and extremely irresponsible.
Recommendation: Clarify the rules to eliminate the loophole created by an abusive interpretation of
restrictions on high capacity magazines, and to impose an actual limit of 5 cartridges for unrestricted
weapons and 10 for restricted weapons

[Twisted Canuck]

Oh my dear sweet Jesus.....because if you ban all the scary guns, no more crazy people will ever be able to do anything harmful again.

'Military configurations increase the risk to public safety....' OK. Sounds like a fact to me when you say it like that.



Let's just stop screwing around, and ban everything that isn't a break action single shot, and limit the amount of ammunition anyone can purchase or possess to 5 cartridges. And you can't buy more, until you bring the brass casing back. That'll fix everything. While we're at it, we need to ban all motor vehicles, because they can be used to run multiple people down at a time. And knives. And fire, got to ban fire. The list is going to get long.

Think of the children.

[Newview01]

What a joke.

They are coming for the bolt actions. Don't kid yourself.

[possum]

Originally Posted by Twisted Canuck

Oh my dear sweet Jesus.....because if you ban all the scary guns, no more crazy people will ever be able to do anything harmful again.

'Military configurations increase the risk to public safety....' OK. Sounds like a fact to me when you say it like that.



Let's just stop screwing around, and ban everything that isn't a break action single shot, and limit the amount of ammunition anyone can purchase or possess to 5 cartridges. And you can't buy more, until you bring the brass casing back. That'll fix everything. While we're at it, we need to ban all motor vehicles, because they can be used to run multiple people down at a time. And knives. And fire, got to ban fire. The list is going to get long.

Think of the children.

Yep, I think of how many children are in Gangs and most are packing. Not to mention many are covered by the YCJA and cannot be named or prosecuted because of age, and they know the most they will get is a slap on the wrist and sent home.


It's a Joke, But It Aint Funny

[gunluvr]

"a Russian SKS rifle without restriction manufacturing fully
automatic discharge, which raises concerns in terms of public safety. ... The weapon fires only in automatic
mode (no semi-automatic mode);"

Nhuh?

[gunluvr]

Recommendation: Clarify the rules to eliminate the loophole created by an abusive interpretation of
restrictions on high capacity magazines, and to impose an actual limit of 5 cartridges for unrestricted
weapons and 10 for restricted weapons

So...raise the capacity of magazines for restricted weapons from 5 to 10? But lower it for unrestricted from 10 to 5.
Yup that'll save some lives.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by gunluvr

"a Russian SKS rifle without restriction manufacturing fully
automatic discharge, which raises concerns in terms of public safety. ... The weapon fires only in automatic
mode (no semi-automatic mode);"

Nhuh?

they are talking about modifying it to slam fire.

it technically isnt full auto as the hammer only drops once and then the rifle will dump the mag. super inaccurate and ineffective.

[Jayhad]

So if I put savage 110 in the factory stock it's ok. As soon as I drop it in a MDT Chassis it is Prohibited? Makes sense.

Luckily my SKS left my premise, those assault rifles have minds of their own.

[.257Weatherby]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Jeepers got a flashlight mounted on my 590 shotty....do I own a bad gun now

Why did you deface your flashlight like that?
Rob

[hogie]

The anti gun groups hate all guns, anything semi is a assault rifle and any rifle with a scope is a sniper rifle.

They want all guns gone not just semiautomatic ones. There is also many who want central storage, all guns locked up away from your house.

I'm hoping that the Libs don't give in to the anti groups with all there stupid demands. They have enough real problems that actually need to be addressed. Why decide to make guns an issue when there are more people dying from drug overdoses in Alberta alone than guns killing nationwide . Whats more of a concern for public safety? They don't want a criminals past to be used for sentencing process because it will backlog it too much. They really haven't done much to make things better, what happens if pot is delayed? Need to be able to check for drivers under the influence of it before it becomes legal. Legalize it without having police ready? Libs have a lot on there plate with most things going wrong for them.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by hogie

The anti gun groups hate all guns, anything semi is a assault rifle and any rifle with a scope is a sniper rifle.

They want all guns gone not just semiautomatic ones. There is also many who want central storage, all guns locked up away from your house.

I'm hoping that the Libs don't give in to the anti groups with all there stupid demands. They have enough real problems that actually need to be addressed. Why decide to make guns an issue when there are more people dying from drug overdoses in Alberta alone than guns killing nationwide . Whats more of a concern for public safety? They don't want a criminals past to be used for sentencing process because it will backlog it too much. They really haven't done much to make things better, what happens if pot is delayed? Need to be able to check for drivers under the influence of it before it becomes legal. Legalize it without having police ready? Libs have a lot on there plate with most things going wrong for them.

Ok, now tell me gun control isn't more about control than guns.

Some people just don't get it. Public safety is not the issue. The government, and liberals in general, do not want Joe public to be armed. Comment all you want about tin foil, the proof is in the bold.

[FellSwoop]

It reads poorly because this is a bad translation. They are sophisticated but technically illiterate.

[hogie]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Ok, now tell me gun control isn't more about control than guns.

Some people just don't get it. Public safety is not the issue. The government, and liberals in general, do not want Joe public to be armed. Comment all you want about tin foil, the proof is in the bold.

I understand that. They like to make it seem like we have way more issues with guns than we actually do. Most of the public do not have a clue about how little guns are used for violent crime.

We average about 600 homicide a year with less than 30% committed with guns in a country of 35 million. Not really big numbers.

They do use public safety as an argument for more gun control. That's what they say to the uninformed public that it's about safety. They lie about many things to further their agenda. Unfortunately much of the media goes along with it.

At this point in time I try to educate people on actual facts about guns in this country. What our existing laws are. Donate to gun organizations. Can't do much more until I find out what changes will be proposed if any.