Another Wolf discussion on what it costs hunters

[nube]

This makes me furious. $800 000 given to ranchers as compensation for animals eaten by predators! It's not that ranchers do not deserve it but imagine what $800K would do in the fight to decrease predator numbers so we didn't have to shell it out every year! So basically we pay as hunters to feed the wolves and bears in this province! Unreal!

https://globalnews.ca/news/3970919/a...-conservation/

[Smokinyotes]

It also makes me wonder how many of the animals that are supposed kills were already dead before the wolves or bears showed up.

[Headdamage]

I found a sick cow on crown land once, after the cattle has been rounded up. Told the rancher about it and where it was, he seemed to be mad with me, I got the feeling I was interfering in his making predator claim. This was out in 406 in the 90's.

[heretohunt]

Why do you hunters dollars go to pay for Wolf and elk damage? We are not the ones renting them the land. It seems like a landlord problem to me.
My neighbour controls community pasture near my house and does not allow hunters while cattle are present. He is also the first one to make a claim when A wolf eats one of his cows or elk get into his hay and hunters pay for it.
The last time he had a problem with wolves, fish and wildlife came out and poisoned them.(15). Plus compensation was paid! Trappers were not contacted to my knowledge.

[LKILR]

I wonder if I could make a claim. My Beer cooler was ransacked by a problem black bear that was relocated by the gov. I’m out 8 beer 5 twisted tea and half a bottle of whiskey. Plus damage to my cooler. Dam wildlife interfering with my out door activities!

[cowmanbob]

I've had several claims for predator killed livestock, don't think for a minute that it's easy money. There needs to overwhelming evidence or you're out of luck

[heretohunt]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

I've had several claims for predator killed livestock, don't think for a minute that it's easy money. There needs to overwhelming evidence or you're out of luck

I pity the wolf that thinks your cows are and easy meal.

[CF8889]

Originally Posted by LKILR

I wonder if I could make a claim. My Beer cooler was ransacked by a problem black bear that was relocated by the gov. I’m out 8 beer 5 twisted tea and half a bottle of whiskey. Plus damage to my cooler. Dam wildlife interfering with my out door activities!

They did you a favor by drinking those twisted teas hahaha

[Big Grey Wolf]

Guys you need to review past history, our great premier Kleiniken wanted to move our hunting license money into general revenue. It was then thought would not be to popular with hunting community so in their wisdom moved the $$$ to ACA for predator compensation to farmers. All other provinces use federal/provincial tax monies to compensate farmers.

[Stinky Buffalo]

Originally Posted by heretohunt

I pity the wolf that thinks your cows are and easy meal.

Haha! So true!

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by Headdamage

I found a sick cow on crown land once, after the cattle has been rounded up. Told the rancher about it and where it was, he seemed to be mad with me, I got the feeling I was interfering in his making predator claim. This was out in 406 in the 90's.

makes a bit more sense on why the rancher was dragging his feet on doing anything with what i experienced this past year as well. In the crown down south, found a dead cow RIGHT on the trail(not an animal kill, no damage to the carcass), right where guys set up camp. called parks(as it is a wildland park) and told them what was up. 1 week goes by nothing, week and a half nothing. mean while, now a bear and wolves have shown up and started eating. finally it gets taken care of someone by dragging it off the trail into an open field. at least now you can see if anything is on it rather than get surprised on the bush trail. wolves/bears have at it until gone.

rancher now probably gets his predatory cheque when before he wouldn't.

too late. the pack of wolves that showed up stuck around all season. bye bye elk.

[Rockman]

I don't mind cattle farmers being compensated. In theory it seems fair enough if reasonable and managed right, etc.

What does bother me is that a lot of these decisions are made not thinking of the most effective or economical way, but rather what looks good to Joe Granola in most cities. People campaign against and don't want to see govs encourage pest predator control, so we end up paying through the nose for helicopter shoots or non-discriminatory poisoning that's a lot more harmful. But hey, we're doing great 'cause we eliminated that nasty practice of prize $$ for yotes/wolves killed.

Preaching to the choir. I know...

[elkhunter220]

People who are saying ranchers get compensated for animals that have died not due to predatory reasons...but then get eaten by bears and wolves, this is not true. You can tell a difference and a cause of death in pretty much all cases. Fish and wildlife do not make it easy for a rancher to get compensated for a predatory kill.

I feel like this will add to the tension between land owners/lease holders and the hunting access debate. Just what we need to help this situation hey Nube!

We as hunters love to stir the pot it seems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ranch11]

I disagree with compensation. I hate predators. I shoot every four legged varmint that comes on the place. I do everything in my power to get rid of em. I feel that I shouldn’t lose animals if I do everything I can. This includes hunting or trapping predators. Or getting fish and wildlife involved with live traps for bears.

There are hundreds of trappers in the province that would be more than happy to help out.
I don’t think it’d be a terrible idea if ranchers could trap without the licensing involved. As long as F&W knew about it.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by elkhunter220

People who are saying ranchers get compensated for animals that have died not due to predatory reasons...but then get eaten by bears and wolves, this is not true. You can tell a difference and a cause of death in pretty much all cases. Fish and wildlife do not make it easy for a rancher to get compensated for a predatory kill.

Exactly!

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Rockman

I don't mind cattle farmers being compensated. In theory it seems fair enough if reasonable and managed right, etc.

What does bother me is that a lot of these decisions are made not thinking of the most effective or economical way, but rather what looks good to Joe Granola in most cities. People campaign against and don't want to see govs encourage pest predator control, so we end up paying through the nose for helicopter shoots or non-discriminatory poisoning that's a lot more harmful. But hey, we're doing great 'cause we eliminated that nasty practice of prize $$ for yotes/wolves killed.

Preaching to the choir. I know...

Helicopter shoots? tell me more.

[gitrdun]

My good friend and close neighbor runs a large ranch. On which I am fortunate to ride his lease checking for fence damage, doctoring cows, and bringing home stray bulls as a wannabee cowboy. I've not heard many stories nor seen first hand account of predator kills. But what kills we do see, are at the hands of humans, whomever that may be. Food for thought.

[Joe Black]

I'll chime in again.

Saying you can identify cause of death in all cases may be a bit of a stretch. I'm sure we've all seen animals in the bush where all that is left is skin and bones, especially in warm weather. No bullet or arrow that leaves natural causes or predators. Now if fish And wildlife need PROOF it was predators before they pay, then that's a different story. Is that the case? If so what proof is required?

Just to further the story, and a general question regarding dead livestock on public land. Is the rancher required to remove dead livestock? The reason I ask is that the cow I saw was dead before general fifle season. The cattle roundup was occurring. I saw the ranchers(or help) go around this cow And continue with the roundup, so they knew it was there, and still it stayed out there for the better part of two weeks to do nothing than attract predators.

Why would they do that if not for a compensation claim? Just lazy? I would think they have a responsibility to take care of any dead livestock on public land. Let me know if this is not the case.

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

My good friend and close neighbor runs a large ranch. On which I am fortunate to ride his lease checking for fence damage, doctoring cows, and bringing home stray bulls as a wannabee cowboy. I've not heard many stories nor seen first hand account of predator kills. But what kills we do see, are at the hands of humans, whomever that may be. Food for thought.

Same here. My neighbor who lives just north of me said he lost a cow and two calves to coyotes last year. I say bullcrap. I literally live 30 yards from his pasture and I've never had any trouble nor have I lost a calf.
I have more trouble with two legged predators and outfitters than I do with the four legged ones.

[cowmanbob]

It probably was not done in by a predator, if it was he would have FW look at it as soon as possible before evidence disappears. As said before FW does not give payouts easily.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Ranch11

Same here. My neighbor who lives just north of me said he lost a cow and two calves to coyotes last year. I say bullcrap. I literally live 30 yards from his pasture and I've never had any trouble nor have I lost a calf.
I have more trouble with two legged predators and outfitters than I do with the four legged ones.

And I'm totally on board with your post Ranch11. Out of my windows, I am surrounded with black angus cows and their calves. I always have a handy .223 rifle ready. I've seen more than a few coyotes searching for mice, gophers and what have you and minding their own business. When one of those dogs come within even close proximity of the calves, the moma cows are right on it. I surely wouldn't want to be a 'yote in that pasture. So yeah, bullcrap.

[gitrdun]

Originally Posted by Joe Black

I'll chime in again.

Saying you can identify cause of death in all cases may be a bit of a stretch. I'm sure we've all seen animals in the bush where all that is left is skin and bones, especially in warm weather. No bullet or arrow that leaves natural causes or predators. Now if fish And wildlife need PROOF it was predators before they pay, then that's a different story. Is that the case? If so what proof is required?

Just to further the story, and a general question regarding dead livestock on public land. Is the rancher required to remove dead livestock? The reason I ask is that the cow I saw was dead before general fifle season. The cattle roundup was occurring. I saw the ranchers(or help) go around this cow And continue with the roundup, so they knew it was there, and still it stayed out there for the better part of two weeks to do nothing than attract predators.

Why would they do that if not for a compensation claim? Just lazy? I would think they have a responsibility to take care of any dead livestock on public land. Let me know if this is not the case.

You calling a farmer or rancher lazy? Live a couple of days in their shoes and get back to me.

[Norwest Alta]

Seen a yearling at the auction sale a couple of years ago that had a tangle with a predator. It was lucky to get away by the looks of the scars on its hind end. I don't know how hard the wolves are on cattle but I think bears are probably worse. Seen once where a bear laid down in the grass waiting for the curious calves to come have a look. He was prosecuted for trespassing and lost. It's kind of nice being the judge and jury.

Maybe let farmers/ranchers shoot grizzly bears and the livestock lost payments might be less. I've been told on here before that the farmer/rancher does not own the wildlife on their land so I'm gonna figure that its the people's wildlife that are causing the problem so should the people not be responsible for the damages. Much the same as my steer on the road and someone runs it over. I do believe I'm liable.

[Norwest Alta]

All of the farmers/ranchers I know would rather keep their stock alive. More money in livestock not deadstock regardless of $800000 payments from fw.

[roper1]

I haven't heard of cow losses to coyotes,(except very rarely the 45 min they're actually calving) but they can & do take calves. There are certainly cases of calves still alive victims of predation.

Coyotes can be very hard on flocks also if they get a taste, local sheep farmer paid us well by our standards to keep coyotes away when we were younger.

Predation vs natural death easy to tell if kill is reasonably fresh.

[Joe Black]

Originally Posted by gitrdun

You calling a farmer or rancher lazy? Live a couple of days in their shoes and get back to me.

Grew up on a mixed farm, 100 head along with 1200 acres of farmed land. Put up close to 10000 square bales by hand each summer/fall along with working the land. Broke about half that land from pasture to crop as I grew up. Spent about 20 years in those shoes. ENough to satisfy your couple days comment?

That's what grabbed my goat about what I witnessed this fall. So yes, lazy to take care of their dead animal on public land, or hoping for a predatory claim.

Do you have another explanation?

Bit off topic, but sounds like some ranchers on here so,,,,,

Please, someone let me know what the responsibility of a leaseholder of a public grazing lease is when he is informed( I'm assumed parks would have done that) after it was reported? PS this was a wild land Park as well. Not only hunters in there but fishers, hikers, et.

[Huevos]

I'm not a rancher, or have any livestock, but grew up in cattle/Gbear country in Southern Alberta. Several times over the years I've heard of ranchers that have been denied compensation because they couldn't prove what killed the animal. Most of the time the reason was that they could prove the animal was eaten by X predator, but they couldn't prove x predator was the cause of death. I'm pretty sure they don't get paid for missing animals either.
My good friend had a grizz go through his river bottom and kill a bunch of his lambs. He got compensated a percentage of the ones they found... mostly with the heads bitten off, but all the missing sheep were a total loss for him. Now even though he knew something was wrong, it was a better part of a week before he realized that it was a bear messing with his heard. I remember him losing 15 lambs in one night with nothing he could do about it. It's not easy, or worth it to count on compensation.

Is that $800,000 only for wolves, or for all predation kills across the province by all predators?

[LKILR]

Around five years back while hunting in 4XX I come across a dead cow that had been partially eaten and the rest buried by a bear. The buried carcass was enough to say it was a bear for sure. On my way back to the road I seen two “cowboys “ and a collie headed towards The bury pile.. I got down to the road and F&W officer was parked on the road side. So I go have a talk with him. He asks me if I seen bear or cow kill and I say I seen dead cow but no bear. I say there are some cowboys up there he says ya I know they going to retrieve the hide from the dead cow so I can look see if cow was killed by a predator. So I wait around to see what goes down... half hour later two cowgirls!! Come riding out of the bush, one is dragging the hide from the dead cow with a lariat. So the CO puts on some rubber gloves and I watch him thoroughly examine the hide for punctur wounds. Especially around the neck, face, and back legs, and back end where you would expect to see punctures from a predator attack.man that thing was rott and I gagged. I have new respect for the CO s. Any way it turned out that the cow hide had no puncture wounds at all. The CO said that a bear is very good at skinning an animal without puncturing the hide. He went to say to me and the ranchers that the cow likely was NOT killed by the bear. The bear simply was scavenging. So he was not recommending compensation for the cow from the govt. So sounds like some proof is neede to get compensation . And I would not call two 60 year old ladies lazy after watching them ride horses up the mountain and recover the cow hide from the active bury site and then dragg it all the way down to the road!!

[elkhunter220]

Originally Posted by LKILR

Around five years back while hunting in 4XX I come across a dead cow that had been partially eaten and the rest buried by a bear. The buried carcass was enough to say it was a bear for sure. On my way back to the road I seen two “cowboys “ and a collie headed towards The bury pile.. I got down to the road and F&W officer was parked on the road side. So I go have a talk with him. He asks me if I seen bear or cow kill and I say I seen dead cow but no bear. I say there are some cowboys up there he says ya I know they going to retrieve the hide from the dead cow so I can look see if cow was killed by a predator. So I wait around to see what goes down... half hour later two cowgirls!! Come riding out of the bush, one is dragging the hide from the dead cow with a lariat. So the CO puts on some rubber gloves and I watch him thoroughly examine the hide for punctur wounds. Especially around the neck, face, and back legs, and back end where you would expect to see punctures from a predator attack.man that thing was rott and I gagged. I have new respect for the CO s. Any way it turned out that the cow hide had no puncture wounds at all. The CO said that a bear is very good at skinning an animal without puncturing the hide. He went to say to me and the ranchers that the cow likely was NOT killed by the bear. The bear simply was scavenging. So he was not recommending compensation for the cow from the govt. So sounds like some proof is neede to get compensation . And I would not call two 60 year old ladies lazy after watching them ride horses up the mountain and recover the cow hide from the active bury site and then dragg it all the way down to the road!!

Yessir. CO don't take predatory compensation very loosely. As some mentioned before...the animal is worth more alive than the compensation payout anyways.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[landowner]

I've had predator claims , believe me it's not that easy to get paid. I believe one of the reasons that the government has this plan , is to Try and curb the sss mentality. If ranchers are expected to absorb the constant loss from the publics predators, they would be taking care of the problem themselves a lot more. Personally I say get rid of it , but let me deal with all bears and wolves my way. No more payments, no more predator problems , win win.