Alberta Woman Killed By Her Own Dog

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

I think the difference is that "assault rifles" owned legally arguably do not negatively impact public safety, while many dog attacks occur while the dog is in care of the dogs legal owner.

That being said, my personal experience with a pitbull was in a busy work environment with lots of public contact and the dog was a sweetheart, but I do not know enough about the breed to have much of an opinion apart from that.

"assault rifles" owned legally" Not here.
Banning anything because it could be bad or evil is just plain stupid.
We always blame the object/tool. Not the person in charge of it. Slippery slope we're talking here.

[Savage Bacon]

Originally Posted by sewerrat

https://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/20...they-be-banned The CBC Fifth estate had an interesting documentary about Pitbulls last night, it was a rerun from last year but interesting to say the least.

My neighbor down the street has a pitbull , and when I walk by his yard that dog goes nuts, barking like crazy and frothing from its mouth.
I love dogs but hate Pitbulls, they are to intimidating.

I think any dog acting like that would be very intimidating. If that dog got out it would probably inflict some damage to someone. I do agree with that. But that's a prime example on how not to raise your dog. That dogs owner is giving those dogs a bad name. It's the same with kids. Lots of parents shouldn't be allowed to have kids. Lots of pet owners shouldn't be allowed to have pets

[mattthegorby]

Originally Posted by vcmm

"assault rifles" owned legally" Not here.
Banning anything because it could be bad or evil is just plain stupid.
We always blame the object/tool. Not the person in charge of it. Slippery slope we're talking here.

That is how I tend to think as well. With the dogs I am on the fence.

I have only known a responsible owner with a great pitbull, but it looks like many cases exist where things go sideways. I hate it when the majority of responsible folks lose a freedom due to the lowest common denominator.

[Kurt505]

My cousin “rescued” the exact same breed as the dog in question here and although the dog is a sweetheart around people and most other animals, she told me that her dog has attacked another dog at a dog park. It wasn’t as vicious or severe as most other pit bull/boxer cross attacks have been but it was still seemingly from out of the blue.


A rattle snake and a mongoose get into a fight, the mongoose gets the rattle snake in its mouth and is about to bite down when the snake pleads “Please don’t kill me, I promise not to bite you, I’ll go on my way and you’ll never see me again”. The mongoose thinks for a minute then releases the snake. As soon as the snake is free it strikes the mongoose in the face and starts to slither away. The mongoose immediately starts to feel the venom take effect and says to the snake “You promised you wouldn’t bite me?”. The snake looks back and says “I’m a snake, I couldn’t help myself”.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A rattle snake and a mongoose get into a fight, the mongoose gets the rattle snake in its mouth and is about to bite down when the snake pleads “Please don’t kill me, I promise not to bite you, I’ll go on my way and you’ll never see me again”. The mongoose thinks for a minute then releases the snake. As soon as the snake is free it strikes the mongoose in the face and starts to slither away. The mongoose immediately starts to feel the venom take effect and says to the snake “You promised you wouldn’t bite me?”. The snake looks back and says “I’m a snake, I couldn’t help myself”.

Like

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A rattle snake and a mongoose get into a fight, the mongoose gets the rattle snake in its mouth and is about to bite down when the snake pleads “Please don’t kill me, I promise not to bite you, I’ll go on my way and you’ll never see me again”. The mongoose thinks for a minute then releases the snake. As soon as the snake is free it strikes the mongoose in the face and starts to slither away. The mongoose immediately starts to feel the venom take effect and says to the snake “You promised you wouldn’t bite me?”. The snake looks back and says “I’m a snake, I couldn’t help myself”.

Good point.

Short version- and maybe we should ask this before every reply;

do you want honesty or something nice?

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Or a chihuahua. Oh wait a minute... don't these smaller dogs attack way more frequently than the "big mean" breeds? But they're so small and cute so we will let it pass

We let it pass because while Chico might bite your baby's face and draw blood he's unlikely to crush his skull and shake him like a raggdoll. You can swat Chico and he flies across the room, not so when a hundred pound ball of killer instinct aggression loses it's mind for whatever reason.

[Au revoir, Gopher]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

A rattle snake and a mongoose get into a fight, [...]

Were they on vacation in the Bahamas?

ARG

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by buckbrush

Are you trying to imply that many generations of selective breeding to enhance certain fighting traits would make a dog more likely to attack?

I agree that the owner has a lot to do with how a dog is but in the end different breeds have focused on different traits. Some things can't be trained out of a dog, they can only be suppressed. I could keep my lab from swimming but that doesn't mean every time he see's water he's not going to wish he was in it.

Umm ya, thats exactly what he should be saying, you snap out of it

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

Umm ya, thats exactly what he should be saying, you snap out of it

[Xbolt7mm]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Almost any dog is capable of inflicting deathly damage to any person. This dog was kept in a chain link pen and most likely trained to guard. Any dog trained like this will attack when it seems fit. Please don't blame the breeds in cases where the owners (humans) trained the dogs to act this way. I'm glad the child survived and it's unfortunate that the owner didn't but it seems that this is how the dog was trained to act and react.

My Yorkshire terroir wont kill no one, buts its the owner not the dog

[buckbrush]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

Umm ya, thats exactly what he should be saying, you snap out of it

Might want to read my Whole post that you pulled that quote from.

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Xbolt7mm

My Yorkshire terroir wont kill no one, buts its the owner not the dog

you owe me a keyboard.

bzzzzzt poof

[270person]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Or a chihuahua. Oh wait a minute... don't these smaller dogs attack way more frequently than the "big mean" breeds? But they're so small and cute so we will let it pass

Pit bulls, Pit bull crosses, and associated bull breeds kill as many people in the U.S. annually as all other breeds combined.

That's really about all a person needs to know.

[Savage Bacon]

Originally Posted by 270person

Pit bulls, Pit bull crosses, and associated bull breeds kill as many people in the U.S. annually as all other breeds combined.

That's really about all a person needs to know.

If we go by everything that is misused and abused in the u.s. then we would be banning everything. Probably even pitbull stuffies.

[270person]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

If we go by everything that is misused and abused in the u.s. then we would be banning everything. Probably even pitbull stuffies.

Problem with the facts I guess huh? Yes I'm sure every pitbull that attacks a human has been abused.

[markg]

I am a proud dog owner. I am very much a dog person. I dont like pitbulls. I dont trust them at all. I was charged by one and thankfully it backed down. (it was owned by people who I know dont abuse there pets) I was recently bit by my neighbors lab cross. That was not nearly as scary as when the pit bull charged at me. I yelled at the dog (lab) and it ran away. It bit once then was done. The Pitbull just stood there growling and sizing me up. The owner came out and had to drag the dog back into the house. Not an easy task.

My dog is a border collie. I have never taught it to herd or do any kind of similar activity. It instinctully just heards things. Sometimes it even wants to heard other dogs. Its simply what it does. Unfortunately killing stuff is simply what terriers do and they are good at it, they were bred for it over a long period of time. Why should we be surprised and outraged when a dog bred to kill stuff does exactly that?

Lets think about this a bit closer. This dog attacked and killed its owner, not some stranger or intruder, the alpha in the pack, the one that provides it with food. Not many breeds of dog will do that.

I once had a conversation with a police officer that was the head of a Cannine unit. We were casual friends. He flat out told me he would never own a Pitbull , he said he didnt trust them. He told me that one of the toughest days he ever had as a Police officer was going to the home of some people who owned a pitbull and found that it had killed a woman and child. He was tasked with trying to remove the dog and retrive the bodies for the grieving husband. A very grisly assignment. This was back in the 1990's

I am not saying that other dogs dont bite people, I have experience with just that. But other dogs rarely shred people to bits and kill them. If you own a pitbull and think its the most wonderful dog ever then I am happy for you. But I would caution you never to trust it completely. I would also own a very large liability insurance policy because if it ever snaps you may loose everything you own and frankly if your dog does harm someone or worse kills someone you should be held accountable.

[markg]

Just last summer I knew someone in my town that was visting a friend of theirs who had a pitbull. The dog owner was having a party with numerous guests, I think it was a summer BBQ. The pitbull came over to a middle aged lady who loves animals. She bent over to pet the dog and put her face in front of it and started petting it. The Pitbull snaped and ripped her lip off. She has since needed plastic surgery to fix the damage.

The owners of the dog have not put it down and refuse to do so. That in my mind is inexcusable.

[liar]

Originally Posted by mattthegorby

That is how I tend to think as well. With the dogs I am on the fence.

I have only known a responsible owner with a great pitbull, but it looks like many cases exist where things go sideways. I hate it when the majority of responsible folks lose a freedom due to the lowest common denominator.

every law we have is to protect society from " the lowest common denominator " . every law .

this is no exception .

fact:not very many people are qualified or capable of properly training an animal .
fact:most breeds of canines were "engineered " for a specific purpose .
fact: any moron can buy any dog , car , motorcycle , have children , regardless if they are qualified or not.
fact: we need laws to protect society

do you know the difference between a German Shepard humping your leg and a pit bull humping your leg ? you let the pit bull finish .

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by markg

Just last summer I knew someone in my town that was visting a friend of theirs who had a pitbull. The dog owner was having a party with numerous guests, I think it was a summer BBQ. The pitbull came over to a middle aged lady who loves animals. She bent over to pet the dog and put her face in front of it and started petting it. The Pitbull snaped and ripped her lip off. She has since needed plastic surgery to fix the damage.

The owners of the dog have not put it down and refuse to do so. That in my mind is inexcusable.

there are Lawyers that would beat down doors for a case like that

[Savage Bacon]

So labs are on the ban list too? Last summer a co-workers border collie bit my leg. Put about 1/4 inch hole in my Jean's and about a 1 1/4 inch light cut on my leg. Not deep at all but I sure felt it. He was shocked at what the dog did. And admitted that the dog did the same thing to his neighbour a while back. I'm pretty confident that this dog is not mistreated. My only concern is that this may happen to a child. The owner said if he had more issues he would put the dog down. Maybe he was trying to heard me? I know pitbulls can be dangerous. All I'm saying is that lots of them are almost raised to act this way.

[EZM]

Here's my take on it .....

1) Statistically comparing a "total number" of attacks and trying to use that simple method to determine which breed is more dangerous compared to the next is poor science and poor statistics - although they are often used as ammunition for the "german shepherds" (picking a random example) are just as bad crowd. There are likely 50 Shepherds for every 1 pit bull and if the total incident rate is the same - say 8 bites that year for each of the breeds it means the pit bull is 50 times more likely to bite..

2) Describing or comparing dogs as objects and comparing them to guns is silly. A gun is not capable of independent thought or action nor does it possess free will nor temperament. That argument holds zero water.

3) Certain breed have specific temperaments, dispositions and absolutely more (or less likely) to act a certain way, react a certain way, etc... that's genetic disposition - real science. Yes behaviour modification, training, discipline etc. can help but it will not suppress or change genetic disposition. It may lower the risk of incident but not eliminate the risk.

[Kurt505]

I’ve always owned large breeds, I had Rottweilers for 22years between two males and one was an Uber Alpha male. The one that wasn’t really too much of an alpha personality bit a friend of mine once by accident. We were fishing and although our dogs got along well they got into a fight over a pike we had caught. Both dogs love fish so the fight was on. My friend went in to separate the dogs and my dog nipped him in the hand. Immediately my dog stopped fighting, he realized the second that he bite it wasn’t a dog and went into full on guilt mode. My Alpha rottie never bit anyone and only got into a couple dust ups with other dogs as not too many other dogs challenged his dominance.

Having dogs and friends my whole life, and not trying to teach a guard dog to be a guard dog has helped me raise friendly big dogs who have a natural instinct to be aggressive protectors. People should have to pass an owners course before having the leash of large aggressive breeds handed over to them.

When my last Rottweiler was nearing the end of his life cycle I was going to get another Rottweiler but I came across an add for pressa canario puppies. It was a cute brindle pup so I called up the add and said I’d take one. The breeder emailed me an application form! I had to first pass the application part, then meet the breeder with my Rottweiler so he could see the temperament of our pet before giving me the ok to purchase the dog.

Pressa’s are a mix of mastiff, bulldog, and a canary island herding dog. They are really suspicious of strangers and make excellent guard dogs but have to be socialized properly from birth. Proper training with large dogs is a must and I was extremely happy to see the strict process my breeder had in place for potential owners.

Both Rottweilers and Pressa Canarios are working farm dog breeds, big, strong and have a natural instinct to guard so the only thing you need to train them is socializing because guarding comes naturally to them. Boxers were bred to hunt bears and boars, Pit Bulls were bred to fight, I can only imagine how strong the instinct to attack is with a dog cross bred. In cross breeding any dog you are potentially creating a monster, not such a good idea, and I bet a lot of attack’s on humans are from cross breeds.

The way I see it, if someone wants a pit bull fine, but they should have to pass a course and be required to take the dog to obedience classes until the dog passes or forfeit the animal back to the breeder. Breeders should also be required to screen potential owners.

[markg]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

So labs are on the ban list too? Last summer a co-workers border collie bit my leg. Put about 1/4 inch hole in my Jean's and about a 1 1/4 inch light cut on my leg. Not deep at all but I sure felt it. He was shocked at what the dog did. And admitted that the dog did the same thing to his neighbour a while back. I'm pretty confident that this dog is not mistreated. My only concern is that this may happen to a child. The owner said if he had more issues he would put the dog down. Maybe he was trying to heard me? I know pitbulls can be dangerous. All I'm saying is that lots of them are almost raised to act this way.

If my dog aggressively bites someone she is going to be put down. My wife and I dont have children and love our dog as one of the family but if she caused harm then she would be put down.

[tundraltd]

Originally Posted by Skoaltender

How many people here would be comfortable raising a small child in a home with a Pitbull?

I would with out a question of doubt.

[58thecat]

[QUOTE=Xbolt7mm;3842358]My Yorkshire terroir wont kill no one.....they go great with gravy.

[wildbill]

Originally Posted by kw12

Yup blame it on the breed of dogs. Got 3 kids and other pets and they are the best dogs I’ve ever had or seen. All in the way they are raised and treated.

X2, a dog is a mere reflection of his/her owner.

[vcmm]

Soon enough we will have no rights or freedoms because of banning stuff people are scared of. Don't like the looks of, don't like the eye colour of etc etc etc.......... What about accountability

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by vcmm

Soon enough we will have no rights or freedoms because of banning stuff people are scared of. Don't like the looks of, don't like the eye colour of etc etc etc.......... What about accountability

When someone's eye color causes grizzly death or rogue green eyes eats a baby that may be an option yep.

[brendan's dad]

Unfortunately new laws and regulations are created due a change society and the actions or inaction associated to. Some new laws include theft of telecommunication, home invasion, terrorism, and so on. These are new "crimes" and were created because of change in criminal behavior.

In a not too distance past if a dog showed any aggression towards a person and specifically a child, the owner would deal with situation and put the dog down. Human life was much more valued than a dogs life. But there has been a change in that line of thinking in society in general. It has gone so far the other way that if you were seen in the rural area taking the dog to the back field and shooting it, there would be police called and a cry for justice for the dog.

I compare this breed to a mentally ill person. 95% time they are no danger to anyone else. But the first training you receive in dealing with mental health patience is that they are unpredictable and can be prone to violence without reason, rational, or history.

I think that pitbulls and such, have established enough of a documented history that because of the inaction of some owners, unfortunately all owners of this breed should be subject to regulations and mandatory training.